countmeout.ie

I defected last week.

This week, I feel happier, fitter.. Like a huge burden has been lifted. My mind is clear and I feel like I've done something that will make a difference to the range of problems will live with in Ireland. If you don't see yourself as Catholic, then I ask you; Why would you not defect?

The priest wanted to meet me for "dialogue and clarification". I sent him a reply telling him that I respectfully decline his offer, but if he really wanted to begin dialogue with me I offered him 15 reasons why I was leaving the church, inviting him to reply to any one of them. He replied only with the request that I send him the 15 reasons, signed.

He did not reply to a single reason I gave him. Not one! What sort of dialogue is that? I assure you, the priests do not want to meet you to fairly discuss anything, I have a feeling they will just try to use fear to stop you defecting- i.e. bring up the issue of marraige and funerals and try to press our more sensitive buttons.

I would be interested in seeing exactly how many people actually went through with the defection after printing it out.

prinz wrote: »

I'd love to know where you studied politics?

Obviously somewhere where they teach it correctly.

Unless lobby/pressure groups, especially 'moralistic' ones, have found a way to exert influence without some assumed mandate?

prinz wrote: »

Really? Unless it was a course in the poltical theory of the Soviet revolution, I doubt it. Judging by what the poster said, all our TD's shoud defect upon entering the Dáil.

Unless lobby/pressure groups, especially 'moralistic' ones, have found a way to exert influence without some assumed mandate? That was his point, wasn't it? If you are unhappy with the Catholic Churches cosy role within public life, then the obvious choice would be to remove yourself from their statistics, and hence, their assumed mandate.

I thought this would be blindingly obvious.

prinz wrote: »

Presumably those involved in the State apparatus and system of Governance should only include those who have defected then? . If you have a Catholic or Jewish or Protestant Taoiseach, then under the above assertion Church and State are not separated. Perhaps only those who have defected should be allowed to vote, otherwise there'd be a 'moralisitc pressure group' influencing the outcome of the vote... etc etc etc

Nonsense. Absolute nonsense. Drawing correlations where there are none and making spurious assumptions.

It's almost as if you make this a way of life.

Daisy D wrote: »

Okay.....so I read the first two pages of the thread . . . BLAH BLAH BLAH! Here's my tupence...

As a young gay man, I will be defecting. Following the insults and remarks that the Pope has been making since becoming Pope I feel I now have a platform to say, "Who the hell are you to tell me I can't be myself!". God or whoever will still love me, now I don't go to mass etc...EVER, I was baptised, communion, confirmation but only in the last few years have I woke up to the power the church has over alot of people in Ireland (even people who don't go to mass, etc). I feel it is a very unhealthy hold that they have. As regards to Catholicism itself, the fastest declining Christian faith in the world. And although this site might not be significant in regards to the numbers using it etc...it is still a way out!

Exactly. I imagine many people have considered officially leaving, but had no idea how. Now they have a resource, at least. That's all this site is. People running around, stomping their feet over it are only making fools of themselves, really.

JimiTime wrote: »

I just found this amusing.

I didn't.

Share in the joke!

Jakkass wrote: »

Daisy What insults has the Pope made?

This is the quickest and most recent I could think of.
LINK "Pope says gays are threat to human existence"

Jakkass wrote: »

Daisy What insults has the Pope made?

By the by, totally off topic but I'm curious, has the Pope ever made a statement about the Ryan Report? (just wondering)

prinz wrote: »

I'd love to know where you studied politics.

As would I. Unfortunately a groundswell of movement within the Church cannot be instigated by those outside the Church. Presumably if these wrongs were all righted in your eyes you would set up a website to countmein.ie?

Why do you assume I studied politics? In fact, why does anyone have to formally study it to know about it?

I fully understand that such a movement would have to come from within the church. And, rest assured, there's no danger of me setting up a countmein.ie, bapstising infants is an infinitely more effective method of signing people up, don't you think?

prinz wrote: »

Really? Unless it was a course in the poltical theory of the Soviet revolution, I doubt it. Judging by what the poster said, all our TD's shoud defect upon entering the Dáil.

You have totally, and deliberately, misinterpreted what I said. My basic argument is this: you cannot wrest the church from the state if the majority of the population are members of that church. Formally defecting will reduce the numbers in the church and, thus, contribute to the removal of church from state.

prinz wrote: »

Presumably those involved in the State apparatus and system of Governance should only include those who have defected then? . If you have a Catholic or Jewish or Protestant Taoiseach, then under the above assertion Church and State are not separated. Perhaps only those who have defected should be allowed to vote, otherwise there'd be a 'moralisitc pressure group' influencing the outcome of the vote... etc etc etc

Having a Catholic, Muslim or Jewish TD does NOT mean the church and state are not separated. They are not separated when those TDs use their religion in the discharge of their duties. Their personal faith should not impact on their role as legislators (in an ideal world).

prinz wrote: »

Well perhaps he should've phrased it better, because that's exactly what he said... in order to fully separate Church and State, everyone must defect.... Anyone with a background of studying politics would never have made that mistake.

Again, totally distorting what I said. I have addressed this point above. Oh, and again you have brought up the study of politics. I'll indulge you: where did you study politics?

countmeout.ie (Paul) wrote: »

Why do you assume I studied politics? In fact, why does anyone have to formally study it to know about it?

I fully understand that such a movement would have to come from within the church. And, rest assured, there's no danger of me setting up a countmein.ie, bapstising infants is an infinitely more effective method of signing people up, don't you think?



You have totally, and deliberately, misinterpreted what I said. My basic argument is this: you cannot wrest the church from the state if the majority of the population are members of that church. Formally defecting will reduce the numbers in the church and, thus, contribute to the removal of church from state.



Having a Catholic, Muslim or Jewish TD does NOT mean the church and state are not separated. They are not separated when those TDs use their religion in the discharge of their duties. Their personal faith should not impact on their role as legislators (in an ideal world).



Again, totally distorting what I said. I have addressed this point above. Oh, and again you have brought up the study of politics. I'll indulge you: where did you study politics?

Paul, word of advice. In the Christianity forum, misinterpretation and straw-man arguments are a speciality of regular posters. I would suggest some names, but I would get a slap on the bum from PDN.