Ciaran500 wrote: » Those figures are not accurate. My dad filled in our cencus and put down my mother, brother and me as catholic and none of us believe in god. Same story in my friends house and I seriously doubt these are isolated cases.
eoghank wrote: » I defected last week. This week, I feel happier, fitter.. Like a huge burden has been lifted. My mind is clear and I feel like I've done something that will make a difference to the range of problems will live with in Ireland. If you don't see yourself as Catholic, then I ask you; Why would you not defect? The priest wanted to meet me for "dialogue and clarification". I sent him a reply telling him that I respectfully decline his offer, but if he really wanted to begin dialogue with me I offered him 15 reasons why I was leaving the church, inviting him to reply to any one of them. He replied only with the request that I send him the 15 reasons, signed. He did not reply to a single reason I gave him. Not one! What sort of dialogue is that? I assure you, the priests do not want to meet you to fairly discuss anything, I have a feeling they will just try to use fear to stop you defecting- i.e. bring up the issue of marraige and funerals and try to press our more sensitive buttons. I would be interested in seeing exactly how many people actually went through with the defection after printing it out.
eoghank wrote: » The priest wanted to meet me for "dialogue and clarification". I sent him a reply telling him that I respectfully decline his offer, but if he really wanted to begin dialogue with me I offered him 15 reasons why I was leaving the church, inviting him to reply to any one of them. He replied only with the request that I send him the 15 reasons, signed.He did not reply to a single reason I gave him. Not one! What sort of dialogue is that? I assure you, the priests do not want to meet you to fairly discuss anything, I have a feeling they will just try to use fear to stop you defecting- i.e. bring up the issue of marraige and funerals and try to press our more sensitive buttons.
prinz wrote: » The 15 reasons, signed is evidence of your "defection" which the priest requires. If you had met him in person you would also be asked to sign something attesting to same. You declined his offer of dialogue, and then act suprised that he doesn't enter into one... thanks for opting out. I feel better.
countmeout.ie (Paul) wrote: » We are not confused. In Ireland, defecting from the church, and separating the church from the state are inextricably linked.
countmeout.ie (Paul) wrote: » If I was a Catholic I would feel immeasurably saddened, angry and let down by the actions of the hierarchy over the years. I would love to see a groundswell of movement within the church which would attempt to right all the wrongs which have been committed.
pts wrote: » But from his post it seems like he did offer dialogue (a written one), he just didn't want to meet in person.
prinz wrote: » I'd love to know where you studied politics?
Flamed Diving wrote: » Obviously somewhere where they teach it correctly.
prinz wrote: » Priests have more to be doing than getting into a paper war. As the poster stated the priest offered to meet for "dialogue", poster rejects idea and then goes on to complain about the lack of dialogue.... hmmm. If he has that little respect for the man I wouldn't reply to his letters either. The priest requires signed written evidence AFAIK, he got that, end of story.
pts wrote: » No one is saying the priest has to get into a "paper war", all I am saying is that it is disingenuous to claim that the poster didn't offer to have a dialogue. It seems like that type of dialogue wasn't what the priest wanted or was able to have.
prinz wrote: » Really? Unless it was a course in the poltical theory of the Soviet revolution, I doubt it. Judging by what the poster said, all our TD's shoud defect upon entering the Dáil.
prinz wrote: » Presumably those involved in the State apparatus and system of Governance should only include those who have defected then? . If you have a Catholic or Jewish or Protestant Taoiseach, then under the above assertion Church and State are not separated. Perhaps only those who have defected should be allowed to vote, otherwise there'd be a 'moralisitc pressure group' influencing the outcome of the vote... etc etc etc
Daisy D wrote: » Okay.....so I read the first two pages of the thread . . . BLAH BLAH BLAH! Here's my tupence... As a young gay man, I will be defecting. Following the insults and remarks that the Pope has been making since becoming Pope I feel I now have a platform to say, "Who the hell are you to tell me I can't be myself!". God or whoever will still love me, now I don't go to mass etc...EVER, I was baptised, communion, confirmation but only in the last few years have I woke up to the power the church has over alot of people in Ireland (even people who don't go to mass, etc). I feel it is a very unhealthy hold that they have. As regards to Catholicism itself, the fastest declining Christian faith in the world. And although this site might not be significant in regards to the numbers using it etc...it is still a way out!
Daisy D wrote: » God or whoever will still love me
JimiTime wrote: » I just found this amusing.
Flamed Diving wrote: » Nonsense. Absolute nonsense. Drawing correlations where there are none and making spurious assumptions. It's almost as if you make this a way of life.
Flamed Diving wrote: » I didn't. Share in the joke!
whoever
Daisy D wrote: » I should probably say, I believe in spirituality, I believe in presence, etc, I don't believe in a man called Jesus who has a dad that we call God etc....hence the part of my previous post, I didn't have it at first but felt I should include it.
Jakkass wrote: » Daisy What insults has the Pope made?
JimiTime wrote: » The fact that you don't believe in Christ or God etc, I'd wonder why the pope's comments actually mean anything to you anyway? I would have thought the fact that you don't believe in anything they teach would be the best reason to declare you aren't a catholic?
Daisy D wrote: » This is the quickest and most recent I could think of.LINK "Pope says gays are threat to human existence"
Earlier this month gay rights activist Peter Tatchell welcomed a leaflet from the Catholic Church in England and Wales urging greater respect towards gay people.
prinz wrote: » I'd love to know where you studied politics. As would I. Unfortunately a groundswell of movement within the Church cannot be instigated by those outside the Church. Presumably if these wrongs were all righted in your eyes you would set up a website to countmein.ie?
prinz wrote: » Well perhaps he should've phrased it better, because that's exactly what he said... in order to fully separate Church and State, everyone must defect.... Anyone with a background of studying politics would never have made that mistake.
countmeout.ie (Paul) wrote: » Why do you assume I studied politics? In fact, why does anyone have to formally study it to know about it? I fully understand that such a movement would have to come from within the church. And, rest assured, there's no danger of me setting up a countmein.ie, bapstising infants is an infinitely more effective method of signing people up, don't you think? You have totally, and deliberately, misinterpreted what I said. My basic argument is this: you cannot wrest the church from the state if the majority of the population are members of that church. Formally defecting will reduce the numbers in the church and, thus, contribute to the removal of church from state. Having a Catholic, Muslim or Jewish TD does NOT mean the church and state are not separated. They are not separated when those TDs use their religion in the discharge of their duties. Their personal faith should not impact on their role as legislators (in an ideal world). Again, totally distorting what I said. I have addressed this point above. Oh, and again you have brought up the study of politics. I'll indulge you: where did you study politics?
