The Angelus before the News,

mike65 · 20-07-2009 07:12PM

I'm waiting to see how Tommy Tiernan or Dave McSavage does it before I unleash a version!

thelordofcheese · 20-07-2009 07:14PM

mike65 wrote: »

I'm waiting to see how Tommy Tiernan or Dave McSavage does it before I unleash a version!

well, at least you've set the bar so low you can't help but succeed.

Clever girl......

Dman001 · 20-07-2009 07:15PM

ihadu wrote: »

i don't shower my atheist views upon anyone, show me the same respect

I wouldn't exactly call 1 minute of ringing bells "showering". And you are "showering" your atheist views by creating this thread.

My name is URL · 20-07-2009 07:15PM

mike65 wrote: »

I'm waiting to see how Tommy Tiernan or Dave McSavage does it before I unleash a version!

http://300bps.org/gallery2/d/44143-2/baloo.gif

Ollchailin · 20-07-2009 07:15PM

Of all the things to complain about regarding RTE, I'm far more offended by other things they do, which I won't get into.

Anyway, I know lots of people who still pray during the Angelus. Granted most of them are an older generation but to give them one minute out of 24 hours in order to do this, hardly a big ask.

stiff kitten · 20-07-2009 07:17PM

My name is URL wrote: »

The way people stop and look towards the sky in anticipation of some divine cumshot is the funniest thing RTE have produced in years

iv said it before...il say it again...
ur great craic

Pop's Diner · 20-07-2009 07:17PM

Not a fan of the Angelus being on tv everyday either and would be happy to see it off the air.

That said tho. I'd be happy enough if they played this version of it daily before the news.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzRP7OKHcqQ

Archeron · 20-07-2009 07:17PM

ihadu wrote: »

i didn't mean to come across as passionately as i have on this subject. just seems odd to me to have this reflection time at 6pm. why is it scheduled just before the main evening news? directed to all

Because driving to work in the morning in the lashing rain isn't an ideal time to have people staring off into the distance while thinking about whatever God they wish to worship, and if it tries to compete with Coronation street at 7.30, sure there'll be no reflecting done at all...at all.

ihadu · 20-07-2009 07:19PM

Dman001 wrote: »

I wouldn't exactly call 1 minute of ringing bells "showering".

youre right, thats too strong. in a secular state though i don't know why its on before the news.

And you are "showering" your atheist views by creating this thread.

no.

philologos · 20-07-2009 07:20PM

Biggins wrote: »

Lets be honest, its a throw back to the days when the priests in this country visibly ruled the state from the headquarters in Armagh.

Really? How is a few dings of a bell paramount to ruling the State :pac:

It's interesting. I doubt Muslims, Jews, or anyone of any religious belief in Ireland would put up half as much an objection to this than anyone who is atheist or agnostic.

Biggins wrote: »

So the bells were introduced to remind us all that above all, God rules supreme and calls us all to pay homage to him right when they can get us altogether - at the tea table!

Indeed. Many of us (including myself) do believe that God reigns supreme. If you do not wish to hold this belief that is your perogative. You can also opt-out of it by changing channel

Biggins wrote: »

The muppets still haven't kopped themselves on that the rest of the world has moved on however (one example: HERE - at least some governments have the balls to stand up to them: HERE)

What's your point? The Catholic Church isn't the State, of course people can criticise them. Sure many people criticise the Catholic Church. I'd prefer if it were legitimate criticism rather than criticism for criticism's sake however.

Dman001 · 20-07-2009 07:22PM

ihadu wrote: »

no.

The Angelus is said at 6 o'clock in the morning, 12 noon and 6 o'clock in the evening. I don't know why it is just in the evening they show it.

ihadu · 20-07-2009 07:26PM

Dman001 wrote: »

The Angelus is said by a select group at 6 o'clock in the morning, 12 noon and 6 o'clock in the evening. I don't know why it is just in the evening they show it.

why is it shown at all, seems outdated to me in mordern ireland

Poor Uncle Tom · 20-07-2009 07:32PM

Dman001 wrote: »

The Angelus is said at 6 o'clock in the morning, 12 noon and 6 o'clock in the evening. I don't know why it is just in the evening they show it.

When RTE started it was only one channel, from about 5pm to before Midnight, thus only one occasion to show the Angelus minute. I remember it on the radio at Midday also. I have heard the monastry bells at 6.00am also.

philologos · 20-07-2009 07:32PM

ihadu wrote: »

why is it shown at all, seems outdated to me in mordern ireland

What is modern Ireland in your opinion?

I personally think religious belief will have a place in modern Ireland whether people like it or not. Don't you?

bigdaddyliamo · 20-07-2009 07:36PM

If the six pm telly bell is not enough for you try tuning into rte radio one for the matinee noon show of athiest bothering bell boinging.

Dman001 · 20-07-2009 07:38PM

ihadu wrote: »

why is it shown at all, seems outdated to me in mordern ireland

Because there are many Christians who like to take that minute to pray and reflect.

ihadu · 20-07-2009 07:39PM

Jakkass wrote: »

What is modern Ireland in your opinion?

I personally think religious belief will have a place in modern Ireland whether people like it or not. Don't you?

almost seems like a threat.

you have your fantasy channel on sky digital, go there for your reflection and tales of magic.

modern ireland is secular, national tv should reflect this.

thelordofcheese · 20-07-2009 07:39PM

Jakkass wrote: »

What is modern Ireland in your opinion?

I personally think religious belief will have a place in modern Ireland whether people like it or not. Don't you?

Well, we could have it so that every religion gets a shot, bells for the angelus on mondays, and the rest of the week cycle through the other major religions of ireland.

Ohh and one on a friday for atheists where it's one minute of people just going about their business followed by the message
"There is probably no god, stop worrying about that, the program that follows however...."

All bases covered, jobs a good 'un.

Biggins · 20-07-2009 07:40PM

Jakkass wrote: »

Really? How is a few dings of a bell paramount to ruling the State :pac:

I did mention something about it being "a throw back" to the past then the clergy though different - its about those times.

Jakkass wrote: »

Indeed. Many of us (including myself) do believe that God reigns supreme. If you do not wish to hold this belief that is your perogative. You can also opt-out of it by changing channel

That's fair enough - and I did guess what... mention that I turn RTE off! Guess you will have to read my post again to see that.

Jakkass wrote: »

What's your point? The Catholic Church isn't the State, of course people can criticise them. Sure many people criticise the Catholic Church. I'd prefer if it were legitimate criticism rather than criticism for criticism's sake however.

My point is that where as years ago you couldn't even speak out against the priesthood, the last vestiges of their sanctimonious self-appointed airs of importance still exist and they still think we should march to their ancient strict like rule.

We are living now in a multi-cultural, more modern like state.
Feck - maybe we should start behaving that way too and throw away the last vestiges of the archaic shows of our now exposed priest dirty eras and their twisted ways of doing things.
The memory of those bells is enough to remind me how backwards we really still are as long as they exist.

..and honestly... why the hell does one need bells in order to pray?
Can one not prompt oneself on their own to carry out their faith without ruddy bells on!

Absolutely no disrespect to yourself Jakkass.
Anyone that wishes to take away or effect your wish to follow your faith, I'd stand beside you and fend them off.

I just think its time we all moved on in ways of doing things, change the out of date way we are seen and rid ourselves of the ways of the stained past that now are well and truly ruined by evil men of the cloth that have destroyed generations of children.

philologos · 20-07-2009 07:48PM

thelordofcheese wrote: »

Well, we could have it so that every religion gets a shot, bells for the angelus on mondays, and the rest of the week cycle through the other major religions of ireland.

As someone who wouldn't normally recite the Angelus ever it doesn't bother me. Likewise I doubt many others of non-Catholic faith will have much issue with it, rather it seems to be only atheists for some reason. I recognise that our society is still culturally Catholic, if not religiously Catholic for the majority of people as such I find it fine for the time to be there.

Biggins wrote: »

I did mention something about it being "a throw back" to the past then the clergy though different - its about those times.

How is what is effectively a call to prayer similar to what is commonly done at Mosques a call back to the past. The past is irrelevant when Catholicism is very much a part of the present. I personally don't hold to it but many do.

Biggins wrote: »

My point is that where as years ago you couldn't even speak out against the priesthood, the last vestiges of their sanctimonious self-appointed airs of importance still exist and they still think we should march to their ancient strict like rule.

I'm sure people could have spoken out quite easily, but rather were hindered by popular opinion. Why should public opinion have influenced peoples personal views? It's quite funny that I haven't noticed a single Catholic priest to be sanctimonious. I do find that a lot of atheists are sanctimonious about what people desire to believe in by referring to belief systems as being "out of date" and other such nonsense when they are pretty much a part of the present still.

mike65 · 20-07-2009 07:49PM

Does anyone know if Radio Éireann broadcast the bongs prior to 1954?

thelordofcheese · 20-07-2009 07:50PM

Jakkass wrote: »

As someone who wouldn't normally recite the Angelus ever it doesn't bother me. Likewise I doubt many others of non-Catholic faith will have much issue with it, rather it seems to be only atheists for some reason. I recognise that our society is still culturally Catholic, if not religiously Catholic for the majority of people as such I find it fine for the time to be there.

if you look closely, i think you'll be able to see my tounge firmly wedged in my cheek.

Biggins · 20-07-2009 07:53PM

Jakkass wrote: »

...It's quite funny that I haven't noticed a single Catholic priest to be sanctimonious. I do find that a lot of atheists are sanctimonious...

In both cases, both do exist. I've come personally across good and honestly some VERY bad priests, come across good and bad atheists as well. Way of the world and all that which comes with it... For me to deny the existance of either would be for a start sanctimonious of me.
Where as years ago before atheists were even allowed a voice more so in Ireland, the sanctimony of the priesthood then wouldn't even allowed such speech.
Thank heaven we are moving on... Just a few more outdated forms of vestiges left to be rid of.

I'm making this thread get off point however...

philologos · 20-07-2009 07:55PM

Biggins wrote: »

Absolutely no disrespect to yourself Jakkass.
Anyone that wishes to take away or effect your wish to follow your faith, I'd stand beside you and fend them off.

This entire thread is of no disrespect to me, I'm a non-Catholic and I wasn't raised in it.

Biggins wrote: »

I just think its time we all moved on in ways of doing things, change the out of date way we are seen and rid ourselves of the ways of the stained past that now are well and truly ruined by evil men of the cloth that have destroyed generations of children.

I can see where you are coming from. However, I can also see the cultural significance of this, and I think that people might want to retain some of these practices instead of wiping them all under the rug.

I don't think the Ryan Report is a good enough reason to criticise all Catholic practice in Ireland. Most Catholic priests never perpetrated these acts, but they are left to be stereotyped based on the acts of a minority which is a real shame. I know quite a lot of great people involved in Catholicism.

IceICEbaby · 20-07-2009 07:56PM

My name is URL wrote: »

The way people stop and look towards the sky in anticipation of some divine cumshot is the funniest thing RTE have produced in years

I lol'd

How embarassing :P

Biggins · 20-07-2009 08:06PM

Jakkass wrote: »

I can see where you are coming from. However, I can also see the cultural significance of this, and I think that people might want to retain some of these practices instead of wiping them all under the rug.

Same here and your quite right. I think (suspect) however the few remaining young priests in this country would like to see a completely clean sweep and fresh start for the Catholic Organisation. If I was them, part of the process would be getting rid of the memories of the past and the ancient bells at six, for me would be part of that ...but that just my own thoughts and I could be off track and wrong (which sometimes we all are).

Jakkass wrote: »

I don't think the Ryan Report is a good enough reason to criticise all Catholic practice in Ireland. Most Catholic priests never perpetrated these acts, but they are left to be stereotyped based on the acts of a minority which is a real shame. I know quite a lot of great people involved in Catholicism.

Absolutely not. I know a lot of priests. Some good, some bad. Heck, I even had one as a relative (he was a selfish bad one).
It would help their image in todays more modern society if they rid themselves of the stained past. I know people that were effected by the abuses of the past and they tell me that for them, the bells every evening at six is like dagger through the back and brings back haunting memories of those done in time gone by. The bells still make them shudder. The bells at six every day always reminds them that the individual scumbags and the badly run organisation that ley them down, has not gone away or made truly advantageous changes, but only ones to suit themselves completely.

Its just time we moved on. Time we cleaned the slate but that cannot happen till we start with the basics.

donvito99 · 20-07-2009 08:15PM

The Angelus is the equivalent of the X Factor to old people...

Biggins · 20-07-2009 08:17PM

donvito99 wrote: »

The Angelus is the equivalent of the X Factor to old people...

The x-factor! Well, that should truly be banned FIRST - no argument there!

Hangsangwich · 20-07-2009 08:22PM

ihadu wrote: »

why in gods name is this still happening?

The Angelus allows a believer to reflect that God lowered Himself to becoming a male human being born of a woman in order to take our sinfulness upon Himself and redeem us in the process. This is very good news, because we can know we are loved by God because He became man and later died for us. The human race has been sinful since our first ancestors primarily by being wilfull and not wishing to conform with the holy will of God.
However, in the Angelus, we are reminded that Mary's compliance with the will of God had the effect of God becoming man. Such is thegreat power of our will (willpower), in that it can have such huge effects on the world. Her "yes" made God incarnate. I wonder what would have happened if Mary had refused to be the mother of God.

So there is a tiny little theology lesson about the Angelus.

In my experience, I would rarely remember to take this short pause for prayer without either hearing the Angelus bells on RTE or hearing the bells from a nearby church. For me, it is a valid meditation, therefore I am in favour of it being on RTE 1 at 6 o clock.

philologos · 20-07-2009 08:23PM

Biggins wrote: »

Same here and your quite right. I think (suspect) however the few remaining young priests in this country would like to see a completely clean sweep and fresh start for the Catholic Organisation. If I was them, part of the process would be getting rid of the memories of the past and the ancient bells at six, for me would be part of that ...but that just my own thoughts and I could be off track and wrong (which sometimes we all are).

To be honest with you I think a lot of churches need modernisation in some ways. I don't support modernisation in terms of changing what we believe, but I do support modernisation in terms of how we do church.

I'd also support more ecumenism and trying to restore Christianity as well, Christianity, rather than a bundle of different sects which are really all quite similar. However, I know that this task won't happen in my lifetime.

The best I can do is support other Christians including Roman Catholics.

For me the bells aren't that big a deal to be honest with you. I just find it a bit absurd when people give out about 3 minutes of dings with a bell.

Biggins wrote: »

It would help their image in todays more modern society if they rid themselves of the stained past.

Right, but this is where the problem is. What is to be considered their stained past? Should they ditch the works of their great thinkers such as Augustine and Thomas Aquinas, or of Justin the Martyr, Ignatius, Polycarp? I guess my question is, what is to stay, and what is to go. That isn't an easy question to answer is it?

Biggins wrote: »

I know people that were effected by the abuses of the past and they tell me that for them, the bells every evening at six is like dagger through the back and brings back haunting memories of those done in time gone by. The bells still make them shudder. The bells at six every day always reminds them that the individual scumbags and the badly run organisation that ley them down, has not gone away or made truly advantageous changes, but only ones to suit themselves completely.

Hm. I'm starting to see where you are coming from now.

Biggins wrote: »

Its just time we moved on. Time we cleaned the slate but that cannot happen till we start with the basics.

Right, but I just want to know, what does cleaning the slate mean by your take? I think I could agree with you that many churches not just Catholics need to have a Reformation every few years, to assess if they have gone astray from what the Gospel teaches. But how? That's the problem that will catch us out for years.

I mean, do you really want the Catholic establishment to take a more Protestant view of the Bible? That is good in many respects in my opinion, but it can also be bad in others. It has resulted in abuse and misuse of the Bible for personal agendas in many cases. I guess it's all just about balance!

The Angelus before the News,

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