What difference does a second make?

TheRoadRunner · 17-04-2009 9:45am

Hey Peckham

Your running is going great recently. What is the plan race wise ? I thought you were doing the 8 mile race in Keepak tomorrow, change of plan or am I confused ?

I like your plan of gaining some fitness before taking time off.

Peckham · 17-04-2009 10:29am

Thanks.

Had intended to go to Clonee tomorrow, but am dropping it in favour of an 18-miler. Have no race plan and really need to get my thinking cap on (particularly for late-June into July). May do the RTE 5 miler on bank holiday weekend, but with wedding planning taking so much time over the next few weekends, getting out for races may not be practical.

As the pyramid-maestro, any feedback on my pyramid session last night posted above. Given the improvements in pace in the latter reps, what sort of pace do you think I should be aiming for on these? Or should I reduce recovery? Or should I try to sneak in another rep or two? This session was on the back of 8 miles and 11 miles over the previous two days, so legs weren't exactly 100% fresh for that session.

TheRoadRunner · 17-04-2009 10:39am

Yeah that seemed a solid pyramid all right. I'm laughing at my pyramid maestro tag. If I'm honest I'm not very scientific about these sessions so I don't know what is right and what is wrong but I can give you my take and see what you think.

Basically I use the pyramid as a replacement for a fartlek session. I use to do a fartlek in a group and it was great reps were between 1-3 minutes. However I find it's very hard to replicate a fartlek on your own so the structure of the pyramid helps.

Fartlek means "fun run" in Swedish or some other Nordic country and that is what I try to get out of it. I like to push myself and try not to worry about the watch too much, some days I hammer around other days not so hard but still hard enough that I feel tired but not absolutely wrecked.

If I were you I would throw in an extra couple of longer reps if your current session feels too easy. 3 minutes plus should do it and knock the wind out of you. When I'm training for 5k reps up to 3 minutes normally do with a shorter recovery of 30 seconds. I run these harder than the sessions I have being doing recently but still try to maintain the "fun" aspect.

cfitz · 17-04-2009 10:41am

Peckham wrote: »

May do the RTE 5 miler on bank holiday weekend, but with wedding planning taking so much time over the next few weekends, getting out for races may not be practical.

No need to let that get in the way - James Nolan ran 12 miles the morning of his wedding and did a track session the night before

TheRoadRunner · 17-04-2009 10:59am

cfitz wrote: »

No need to let that get in the way - James Nolan ran 12 miles the morning of his wedding and did a track session the night before

Ha Ha, very true. The RoadRunner also ran 3 races on his honeymoon in the US of A. A very successful little series it was too although I managed to "hit the wall" in a 5km race. The Nevada sun can do that to you.

Disclaimer, TheRoadRunner is not encouraging newly wed runners to take such a race plan. Divorce proceedings could be filed before you return from you honeymoon. Or at best a frosty reception from the OH

cfitz · 17-04-2009 11:19am

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

Ha Ha, very true. The RoadRunner also ran 3 races on his honeymoon in the US of A. A very successful little series it was too although I managed to "hit the wall" in a 5km race. The Nevada sun can do that to you.

Disclaimer, TheRoadRunner is not encouraging newly wed runners to take such a race plan. Divorce proceedings could be filed before you return from you honeymoon. Or at best a frosty reception from the OH

My wedding came right at the end of my track season - 1500m PB Sunday, 3000m PB Wednesday, Wedding Saturday. Got a week and a half of my honeymoon before I had to start back training for cross-country.

TheRoadRunner · 17-04-2009 12:11pm

cfitz wrote: »

My wedding came right at the end of my track season - 1500m PB Sunday, 3000m PB Wednesday, Wedding Saturday. Got a week and a half of my honeymoon before I had to start back training for cross-country.

Now that is good planning

Peckham · 17-04-2009 12:24pm

cfitz wrote: »

No need to let that get in the way - James Nolan ran 12 miles the morning of his wedding and did a track session the night before

Have a 5 mile group run planned for the morning of the wedding. Wedding is in a scenic part of Donegal that I'm used to running around, and have mustered up interest from about 8 others attending the wedding to go out for a happy jaunt around some trails that morning. Doubt I'd fit 12 in though, and I think Mrs Peckham would be reconsidering her plans if I announced I was off to do some speedwork the night before!

There'll be no running on the honeymoon...I daren't even mention the subject!

TheRoadRunner · 17-04-2009 2:06pm

Peckham wrote: »

There'll be no running on the honeymoon...I daren't even mention the subject!

Sneak the runners into the bag. I had to sneak out early in the morning while the Mrs was still sleeping to get to 2 of my honeymoon races. To say she wasn't happy was an understatement. A break will do you no harm anyway. The 5 mile morning jaunt sounds like a great idea

Peckham · 18-04-2009 1:52pm

18 miles @ 7:15 pace

Pretty uneventful run. Was a struggle to get through the final few miles, and tried to go for a fast finish with a sub-7 final mile but could only hold that for half a mile and the body stopped responding!

Brings my weekly total to 50 miles, which is by far my biggest week outside of the peak weeks in a marathon schedule.

Will be easing off on the mileage next week, as I doubt my stag next weekend will be particularly conducive to running.

Will probably have only one or two more options of long runs before taking my three week break, but think I'll keep them around the 15-16 mile territory.

Might have a go at the BHAA RTE 5 miler the weekend after next. Would like to go sub-30 as it would give me a good confidence boost at this stage.

Peckham · 21-04-2009 7:44pm

Monday
4.25 miles recovery pace

Peckham · 21-04-2009 7:49pm

Tuesday
8 miles with 4 tempo.

Great run. Planned it so that the 4 miles would take me over some rolling hills, and finish with a 0.75 mile uphill push. Good pace throughout, although the final 0.75miles was more like V02 max than tempo

2 miles warm-up: 7:31; 6:41
4 miles tempo: 6:13; 6:12; 6:13; 6:11
2 miles cooldown: 8:14; 8:06

Right calf feeling a little dead at the moment, so will be stretching it out a bit over the evening and may get herself to look at it when she gets home from work.

Peckham · 22-04-2009 8:25pm

5.8 miles. Not sure what my pace was, but it was probably about 7:45ish. Felt tired throughout which wasn't surprising after yesterday evening. Was going to stay out for another 2 miles, but guessed that would be the definition of junk miles, so went home instead!

Peckham · 27-04-2009 6:12pm

Nothing since last Wednesday. Got a bit hectic at the end of last week, and then was away for the weekend.

10 miles today @ 7:16 pace. Felt pretty relaxed due to the few days rest.

Peckham · 15-06-2009 9:13pm

Woah, this was the 2nd thread from the bottom on the last page before I rescued it!

Took 3 and a bit weeks off for wedding and honeymoon and started back running again last Monday. Since then have run everyday except Thursday, and have accumulated about 37 miles. Nothing too dramatic, standout run being the almost 9 miles in Phoenix Park yesterday with a few others from here.

Just to set out my stall for the summer....

Will rebuild my base for the next 2 weeks or so and then start into Pfitz's 12 week/55 mile plan for Berlin. Will juggle it around a bit to increase the mileage, but plan is to have the 18 mile runs as the cornerstone (doing these as progression/pace runs). No more than 3 x 20 milers though, maybe just 2. A conversation with TheRoadRunner yesterday got me thinking along these lines.

Key interim race is the adidas 10 miler in the Park which I'll be hoping for a PB (currently 66 mins). Will throw in a few others also, maybe starting with the Kilcoole AC race next week.

Peckham · 17-06-2009 8:31pm

First, credit to TheRoadRunner, from whom I have shamlessly stolen his training log....now if only I can get his times too!

I like the ease of tracking this table that is lost in threads.

Decent run today - first session at speed in a long time, and feels like I'm marathon training now! If I needed to be told how much work is ahead of me this summer, it was today that told me!

Date|Miles|Ave pace|Ave HR|Comments
1-6-09|Holiday||||
2-6-09|Holiday||||
3-6-09|Holiday||||
4-6-09|Holiday||||
5-6-09|Holiday||||
6-6-09|Holiday||||
7-6-09|Holiday||||
8-6-09|3.14|7:21|158||
9-6-09|5ish|7:30ish|153ish|Battery died on Garmin halfway round|
10-6-09|6.03|7:45|161||
11-6-09|Rest||||
12-6-09|3.46|7:26|154||
13-6-09|5.60|7:02|166|Fast final 3 miles|
14-6-09|8.88 miles|8:11|161||
15-6-09|4.01|7:48|154|Early-morning run|
16-6-09|Rest||||
17-6-09|8.00|7:08|167|3@Tempo - 6:26; 6:29; 6:20|
18-6-09|||||
19-6-09|||||
20-6-09|||||
21-6-09|||||
22-6-09|||||
23-6-09|||||
24-6-09|||||
25-6-09|||||
26-6-09|||||
27-6-09|||||
28-6-09|||||
29-6-09|||||
30-6-09|||||

Sosa · 17-06-2009 8:44pm

Peckham wrote: »

First, credit to TheRoadRunner, from whom I have shamlessly stolen his training log....now if only I can get his times too! I like the ease of tracking this table that is lost in threads.

Decent run today - first session at speed in a long time, and feels like I'm marathon training now! If I needed to be told how much work is ahead of me this summer, it was today that told me!

Date|Miles|Ave pace|Ave HR|Comments
1-6-09|Holiday||||
2-6-09|Holiday||||
3-6-09|Holiday||||
4-6-09|Holiday||||
5-6-09|Holiday||||
6-6-09|Holiday||||
7-6-09|Holiday||||
8-6-09|3.14|7:21|158||
9-6-09|5ish|7:30ish|153ish|Battery died on Garmin halfway round|
10-6-09|6.03|7:45|161||
11-6-09|Rest||||
12-6-09|3.46|7:26|154||
13-6-09|5.60|7:02|166|Fast final 3 miles|
14-6-09|8.88 miles|8:11|161||
15-6-09|4.01|7:48|154|Early-morning run|
16-6-09|Rest||||
17-6-09|8.00|7:08|167|3@Tempo - 6:26; 6:29; 6:20|
18-6-09|||||
19-6-09|||||
20-6-09|||||
21-6-09|||||
22-6-09|||||
23-6-09|||||
24-6-09|||||
25-6-09|||||
26-6-09|||||
27-6-09|||||
28-6-09|||||
29-6-09|||||
30-6-09|||||

I am going to steal this aswell...cheers
I start the 55m mile P&D on Monday for 18 weeks...
looking forward to it

Peckham · 18-06-2009 7:41pm

Date|Miles|Ave pace|Ave HR|Comments
1-6-09|Holiday||||
2-6-09|Holiday||||
3-6-09|Holiday||||
4-6-09|Holiday||||
5-6-09|Holiday||||
6-6-09|Holiday||||
7-6-09|Holiday||||
8-6-09|3.14|7:21|158||
9-6-09|5ish|7:30ish|153ish|Battery died on Garmin halfway round|
10-6-09|6.03|7:45|161||
11-6-09|Rest||||
12-6-09|3.46|7:26|154||
13-6-09|5.60|7:02|166|Fast final 3 miles|
14-6-09|8.88 miles|8:11|161||
15-6-09|4.01|7:48|154|Early-morning run|
16-6-09|Rest||||
17-6-09|8.00|7:08|167|3@Tempo - 6:26; 6:29; 6:20|
18-6-09|6.19|7:52|152||
19-6-09|||||
20-6-09|||||
21-6-09|||||
22-6-09|||||
23-6-09|||||
24-6-09|||||
25-6-09|||||
26-6-09|||||
27-6-09|||||
28-6-09|||||
29-6-09|||||
30-6-09|||||

TheRoadRunner · 19-06-2009 7:51pm

Are you around for a run in the park Sunday ?

--amadeus-- · 19-06-2009 8:18pm

Nice table, I'm going to nick that too...

What did RR say about LSRs that gave you a re-think?

Peckham · 20-06-2009 8:06am

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

Are you around for a run in the park Sunday ?

Am heading away today until tomorrow evening, so unfortunately not. Maybe next weekend?

Peckham · 20-06-2009 8:08am

--amadeus-- wrote: »

What did RR say about LSRs that gave you a re-think?

He was speaking from personal experience about how the accumulation of 20 milers made him injury prone, and that more quality 18 milers (at the expense of 20-milers) might be better for experienced marathon runners. So lots of progression 18 mile runs for me this time!

Peckham · 20-06-2009 8:12am

Date|Miles|Ave pace|Ave HR|Comments
1-6-09|Holiday||||
2-6-09|Holiday||||
3-6-09|Holiday||||
4-6-09|Holiday||||
5-6-09|Holiday||||
6-6-09|Holiday||||
7-6-09|Holiday||||
8-6-09|3.14|7:21|158||
9-6-09|5ish|7:30ish|153ish|Battery died on Garmin halfway round|
10-6-09|6.03|7:45|161||
11-6-09|Rest||||
12-6-09|3.46|7:26|154||
13-6-09|5.60|7:02|166|Fast final 3 miles|
14-6-09|8.88 miles|8:11|161||
15-6-09|4.01|7:48|154|Early-morning run|
16-6-09|Rest||||
17-6-09|8.00|7:08|167|3@Tempo - 6:26; 6:29; 6:20|
18-6-09|6.19|7:52|152||
19-6-09|12.87|8:01|161|Ouch, this one hurt. Right leg felt dead and couldn't get the pace up|
20-6-09|4.01|8:08|153|Still struggling, at least I kept HR down!|
21-6-09|||||
22-6-09|||||
23-6-09|||||
24-6-09|||||
25-6-09|||||
26-6-09|||||
27-6-09|||||
28-6-09|||||
29-6-09|||||
30-6-09|||||

TheRoadRunner · 20-06-2009 10:11am

Peckham wrote: »

Am heading away today until tomorrow evening, so unfortunately not. Maybe next weekend?

grand see you then.

Peckham · 23-06-2009 8:00pm

Tough doing tempo work in that heat. Even at 7pm it still felt hot. Felt better than last week's tempo session, although as with last week was so tempted to stop during the last fast mile. Feeling good about progress.

Date|Miles|Ave pace|Ave HR|Comments
1-6-09|Holiday||||
2-6-09|Holiday||||
3-6-09|Holiday||||
4-6-09|Holiday||||
5-6-09|Holiday||||
6-6-09|Holiday||||
7-6-09|Holiday||||
8-6-09|3.14|7:21|158||
9-6-09|5ish|7:30ish|153ish|Battery died on Garmin halfway round|
10-6-09|6.03|7:45|161||
11-6-09|Rest||||
12-6-09|3.46|7:26|154||
13-6-09|5.60|7:02|166|Fast final 3 miles|
14-6-09|8.88 miles|8:11|161||
15-6-09|4.01|7:48|154|Early-morning run|
16-6-09|Rest||||
17-6-09|8.00|7:08|167|3@Tempo - 6:26; 6:29; 6:20|
18-6-09|6.19|7:52|152||
19-6-09|12.87|8:01|161|Ouch, this one hurt. Right leg felt dead and couldn't get the pace up|
20-6-09|4.01|8:08|153|Still struggling, at least I kept HR down!|
21-6-09|4.52|7:38|159|One of my favourite circuits - hilly Donegal trail|
22-6-09|Rest||||
23-6-09|9.13|7:17|168|3 mile warm-up; 4 mile tempo (6:31, 6:25, 6.25, 6.29); 2 mile cooldown|
24-6-09|||||
25-6-09|||||
26-6-09|||||
27-6-09|||||
28-6-09|||||
29-6-09|||||
30-6-09|||||

asimonov · 23-06-2009 8:23pm

Well done, it's a real "this better be f3cking good for me" workout! Makes the easy ones easy I suppose..is Berlin typically hot??

Woddle · 23-06-2009 9:46pm

asimonov wrote: »

Well done, it's a real "this better be f3cking good for me" workout! Makes the easy ones easy I suppose..is Berlin typically hot??

At start time, it's lovely and cool but temps started to slowly pick up, nothing major but when your 2 hours into the run you can start to feel it. Nothing to be too concerned with nearly perfect.Can't wait

SUNGOD · 24-06-2009 8:39am

hi peckham good to see your back into the swing of things
and a belated congratulations on your recent wedding

Peckham · 24-06-2009 7:53pm

Date|Miles|Ave pace|Ave HR|Comments
1-6-09|Holiday||||
2-6-09|Holiday||||
3-6-09|Holiday||||
4-6-09|Holiday||||
5-6-09|Holiday||||
6-6-09|Holiday||||
7-6-09|Holiday||||
8-6-09|3.14|7:21|158||
9-6-09|5ish|7:30ish|153ish|Battery died on Garmin halfway round|
10-6-09|6.03|7:45|161||
11-6-09|Rest||||
12-6-09|3.46|7:26|154||
13-6-09|5.60|7:02|166|Fast final 3 miles|
14-6-09|8.88 miles|8:11|161||
15-6-09|4.01|7:48|154|Early-morning run|
16-6-09|Rest||||
17-6-09|8.00|7:08|167|3@Tempo - 6:26; 6:29; 6:20|
18-6-09|6.19|7:52|152||
19-6-09|12.87|8:01|161|Ouch, this one hurt. Right leg felt dead and couldn't get the pace up|
20-6-09|4.01|8:08|153|Still struggling, at least I kept HR down!|
21-6-09|4.52|7:38|159|One of my favourite circuits - hilly Donegal trail|
22-6-09|Rest||||
23-6-09|9.13|7:17|168|3 mile warm-up; 4 mile tempo (6:31, 6:25, 6.25, 6.29); 2 mile cooldown|
24-6-09|5.06|8:05|147|Objective was to keep HRM close to 75%. Managed 77%|
25-6-09|||||
26-6-09|||||
27-6-09|||||
28-6-09|||||
29-6-09|||||
30-6-09|||||

asimonov · 25-06-2009 2:35pm

Did you have any side effects from the tempo? Are you happy the 6:30 pace is the right one? If you've done an 85min half marathon we are bang on the same level i'd imagine.