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Pure Maths as a Degree

rjt

So, as the CAO deadline is approaching, I really need to make a final decision about courses. My intention is to do a pure maths degree (probably in Trinity), but I thought that it'd be wise to ask some current students before signing my future away.

Basically, what are the pros and cons of doing a degree in pure maths? Which colleges are best? Are the potential career options really as broad as the open days always insist? Also, how difficult are the courses? I'm pretty good at maths and problem solving (doing well in school and the Irish Maths Olympiad), and from what I've seen of the first year course (I've done some Linear Algebra), it certainly seems do-able. But does it get much more difficult as it progresses?

And as a slight aside to any Trinity students, how hard is it to get a Foundation Scholarship? I'd love to be able to live near campus, but can't really afford it.

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LeixlipRed

Jay P wrote: »

That's a link to this page!

This must be the best thread I have read in a long time. It's all still confusing though

It's a link to this page cause I merged the two threads.

p to the e

what about if you wanted to begin research career in maths?

LeixlipRed

Have you a degree yet or are you looking at that long term? If you have a degree in maths or a related discipline you could do a research postgrad. If you don't have a degree then depending on where you go to college you could have a Msc in Maths after four years and progress to a Phd then.

Pollythene Pam

There is not a lot of employment options in pure maths except maybe teaching. But if it is what you love, and you enjoy it, then you should do it. Life's too short for regrets.

Richard Cranium

I have Financial Maths/Mathematical Science in UCC down as my first choice on the CAO form, but I still find it slightly worrying that with all the research I've done into different colleges and courses, Cork is never mentioned.
Have I picked the crappiest of the courses?

My current vague long term plan is to become an actuary, but since I don't think I'm capable of getting an A in maths in the Leaving (though I should get the B alright), is this a bit too ambitious? Should I stick to accounting or something "easier" instead?

I know I have a lot of questions here so any help is very much appreciated.
Thanks

Fremen

Richard Cranium wrote: »

I have Financial Maths/Mathematical Science in UCC down as my first choice on the CAO form, but I still find it slightly worrying that with all the research I've done into different colleges and courses, Cork is never mentioned.
Have I picked the crappiest of the courses?

My current vague long term plan is to become an actuary, but since I don't think I'm capable of getting an A in maths in the Leaving (though I should get the B alright), is this a bit too ambitious? Should I stick to accounting or something "easier" instead?

I know I have a lot of questions here so any help is very much appreciated.
Thanks

In Ireland, at least, no-one cares about the quality of the college. It's the quality of the student that matters. No-one reads a CV and says "ahh, this fecker's from Cork, let's not waste our time on him." If you're good, you're good. It's your business to make yourself good.

Maths gets infinitely harder in college, so be careful of that. If you're struggling to get an A, you'll have to work very hard in college. That said, if you like it and you're prepared to put the work in, go for it.

At the end of the day, it depends how much you want it. You can become an actuary with an accounting degree or vice-versa, if you're prepared to put a few hours self study in. Aim for the best, and if things get f**ked up, you can always change later on. Oh, and don't call yourself richard cranium. It makes people want to stab you.

DeVore

Pollythene Pam wrote: »

There is not a lot of employment options in pure maths except maybe teaching. But if it is what you love, and you enjoy it, then you should do it. Life's too short for regrets.

Sorry but thats nonsense. I have a degree in Pure Maths and all the graduates in my year were snapped up and not one went to teaching.

Meterology, Nasa, Phd research, Computing, Financial, Gambling (Las Vegas uses a lot of mathematicians you know!), all of these were destinations for my class.

A degree in Pure Maths shows that you can tackle really hard problems with a logical approach and what employer doesnt want that?

DeV.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

DeVore wrote: »

Sorry but thats nonsense. I have a degree in Pure Maths and all the graduates in my year were snapped up and not one went to teaching.

Meterology, Nasa, Phd research, Computing, Financial, Gambling (Las Vegas uses a lot of mathematicians you know!), all of these were destinations for my class.

A degree in Pure Maths shows that you can tackle really hard problems with a logical approach and what employer doesnt want that?

DeV.

I think the poster may have been speaking about working in the field of pure maths as distinct to gaining work in another field with a pure maths degree under your belt. Pure maths is more or less a completely academic field.

Meterology, Rocket Science, Computing, Finance and Gambling are all applications

DeVore

So why did they mention "teaching" as one of the few "options".

Teaching is as much an application of the subject. Maths is not Dentistry, you are trained to be a Dentist, its a profession. Maths is something else, the best mathematicians I have seen had inate skills which were honed and formalised by their degree but I wouldnt use the word "taught", it was in there already (unlike something like Dentistry... no offense to dentist!).

It just bugs me when people say the only thing you can do is teach... its absolute baloney.

DeV.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

DeVore wrote: »

So why did they mention "teaching" as one of the few "options".

Teaching is as much an application of the subject. Maths is not Dentistry, you are trained to be a Dentist, its a profession. Maths is something else, the best mathematicians I have seen had inate skills which were honed and formalised by their degree but I wouldnt use the word "taught", it was in there already (unlike something like Dentistry... no offense to dentist!).

It just bugs me when people say the only thing you can do is teach... its absolute baloney.

DeV.

She didn't say that the only thing you can do with a maths degree is teach. She said:

There is not a lot of employment options in pure maths except maybe teaching.

You can go out of college and get any job you want, but you wont be working 'in' pure maths.

Pure maths is for the most part pursued only on an academic level. Those involved are mathematicians, lecturers and professors who work both teaching, and researching.

I think you may be confusing my use of the word 'application'. I was using it in the context of mathematics. Some lecturers may teach pure mathematics. Some lecturers may teach applied maths. That doesn't mean teaching is an 'application' of maths.

Incidentally a recent WSJ survey listed Mathematician as the best job in the USA followed by Actuary and Statistician.:)

DeVore

Almost all maths is "applied" in the sense that almost all dentistry is "applied". Go tell the meterologist that their chaos models arent "real maths"

I think you are splitting hairs with the first part of your post and giving the poster far too much credit for what was clearly a lack of understanding of what you can do with a Math degree imho.

DeV.

Richard Cranium

Fremen wrote: »

In Ireland, at least, no-one cares about the quality of the college. It's the quality of the student that matters. No-one reads a CV and says "ahh, this fecker's from Cork, let's not waste our time on him." If you're good, you're good. It's your business to make yourself good.

Maths gets infinitely harder in college, so be careful of that. If you're struggling to get an A, you'll have to work very hard in college. That said, if you like it and you're prepared to put the work in, go for it.

At the end of the day, it depends how much you want it. You can become an actuary with an accounting degree or vice-versa, if you're prepared to put a few hours self study in. Aim for the best, and if things get f**ked up, you can always change later on. Oh, and don't call yourself richard cranium. It makes people want to stab you.

Thanks, that's cleared things up a fair bit for me. I have no problem working hard. I fully intend to give my all in whatever I end up doing.

Actuary isn't so much the main concern, rather getting into a maths course, or something similar, and getting some class of a high paying job afterwards.

Maths would definitely be aiming for the best, for me. It is my favourite subject, even though I do find parts of it quite hard at times. No point getting a defeatist attitude towards it though. It shall stay in first place after all

KnifeWRENCH

Richard Cranium wrote: »

I have Financial Maths/Mathematical Science in UCC down as my first choice on the CAO form, but I still find it slightly worrying that with all the research I've done into different colleges and courses, Cork is never mentioned.
Have I picked the crappiest of the courses?

My current vague long term plan is to become an actuary, but since I don't think I'm capable of getting an A in maths in the Leaving (though I should get the B alright), is this a bit too ambitious? Should I stick to accounting or something "easier" instead?

I know I have a lot of questions here so any help is very much appreciated.
Thanks

Well I'm doing joint hons. in Mathematics & Physics at UCC (2nd Year.) I think the course is as good as any other Maths course in the country. The standard of lecturing is (generally) quite good.
If you want to do Math Science (CK407) you need at least a B3 in your Leaving Cert (I think) but even with that, you should be well able to keep up with the course provided you put a bit of work in.

Fremen wrote:

Maths gets infinitely harder in college, so be careful of that. If you're struggling to get an A, you'll have to work very hard in college. That said, if you like it and you're prepared to put the work in, go for it.

I think you're exagerrating here tbh.
I only got a B2 in my Leaving Cert (having put more effort into Maths than any of my other subjects) and I'm managing fine. In 1st Year Calculus is taught from scratch, while Abstract Algebra and Linear Algebra only assume basic knowledge of algebra to begin with.

If anyone has any questions about Maths modules at UCC, feel free to ask here or PM me (be aware I know nothing about Financial Mathematics or Statistics though, as they're not part of my course.)

nesf

Richard Cranium wrote: »

I have Financial Maths/Mathematical Science in UCC down as my first choice on the CAO form, but I still find it slightly worrying that with all the research I've done into different colleges and courses, Cork is never mentioned.
Have I picked the crappiest of the courses?

My current vague long term plan is to become an actuary, but since I don't think I'm capable of getting an A in maths in the Leaving (though I should get the B alright), is this a bit too ambitious? Should I stick to accounting or something "easier" instead?

I know I have a lot of questions here so any help is very much appreciated.
Thanks

No, there's just loads of Trinners on Boards for some reason. You'd swear there were no colleges outside of Dublin on here sometimes...

UCC's Maths courses are solid and well regarded. It's a tough degree but it's more valuable for it.

turgon

So you did a maths degree in UCC nesf??

My brother is graduating this year, hoping to start myself in September.

[Deleted User]

Anyone done mathematical science in UCD?
I have it put down first on my CAO at the moment.

Avasere

I hope this is an appropriate place to thrown in a question of my own!

All through secondary school maths was my favourite subject, I worked relatively hard at it and in the leaving I got a B1 in higher level. At the time the thought of doing a maths degree never even crossed my mind as I had already assumed I'd never be able for it. Two years into a science degree, I absolutely HATE my course. I keep returning to the fact that I love maths.

I didn't do physics or applied maths in school, and after a fair amount of work only managed a B1 in maths. Am I deluding myself thinking I could cope with a maths degree?! I am a hard worker, and I really havn't found anything thats too difficult about my current science degree (except the endless memorisation that's required :mad:). I'd say at this stage I'm fairly rusty with my maths. But I still really want to switch courses! I'd love to hear from those of you in maths courses, I know you cant tell me whether I'd be able for it or not, but any input you might have would be great.

Alternatively I'd continue on and hope to do a masters in maths, switch tracks from there on. Anyone happen to know of any MSc in maths that accept people without maths degrees by any chance?!

geurrp the yard

Avasere wrote: »

I hope this is an appropriate place to thrown in a question of my own!

All through secondary school maths was my favourite subject, I worked relatively hard at it and in the leaving I got a B1 in higher level. At the time the thought of doing a maths degree never even crossed my mind as I had already assumed I'd never be able for it. Two years into a science degree, I absolutely HATE my course. I keep returning to the fact that I love maths.

I didn't do physics or applied maths in school, and after a fair amount of work only managed a B1 in maths. Am I deluding myself thinking I could cope with a maths degree?! I am a hard worker, and I really havn't found anything thats too difficult about my current science degree (except the endless memorisation that's required :mad:). I'd say at this stage I'm fairly rusty with my maths. But I still really want to switch courses! I'd love to hear from those of you in maths courses, I know you cant tell me whether I'd be able for it or not, but any input you might have would be great.

Alternatively I'd continue on and hope to do a masters in maths, switch tracks from there on. Anyone happen to know of any MSc in maths that accept people without maths degrees by any chance?!

Hi op, If you hate your course get out of it. Im in a fairly similar situation to yourself and ive been aceepted to do a maths course in sept touch wood. If you want to transfer course, some colleges will ask you to apply through the cao and the deadline for that is the 1st of july for to be accepted for a course in september. Just be weary that pure maths in college is a bit more abstract from what you do in your science degree or even the leaving. Have you thought of any courses you had in mind?

KnifeWRENCH

Avasere wrote: »

All through secondary school maths was my favourite subject, I worked relatively hard at it and in the leaving I got a B1 in higher level. At the time the thought of doing a maths degree never even crossed my mind as I had already assumed I'd never be able for it. Two years into a science degree, I absolutely HATE my course. I keep returning to the fact that I love maths.

As the previous poster said, GET OUT OF YOUR COURSE NOW. There's absolutely no point in continuing with a course you hate: your college years should be among the best years of your life, it should not be an ordeal.

I didn't do physics or applied maths in school, and after a fair amount of work only managed a B1 in maths. Am I deluding myself thinking I could cope with a maths degree?! I am a hard worker, and I really havn't found anything thats too difficult about my current science degree (except the endless memorisation that's required :mad:).

No you're not deluding yourself.
I worked harder at Maths than any other subject for my LC and managed just to get a B2.
Two years later, I'm halfway through my Maths/Physics degree and my 2nd year results were better in Maths than Physics.
A B1 at Leaving Cert is 80-84%: that's still a great result. In college, a first class honour is 70%.
If you're a hard worker and are willing to put in the effort you'll be fine!

I'd say at this stage I'm fairly rusty with my maths. But I still really want to switch courses! I'd love to hear from those of you in maths courses, I know you cant tell me whether I'd be able for it or not, but any input you might have would be great.

If you'd like to brush up on your maths, perhaps purchase one of the revision guides they publish for higher level maths.

Alternatively I'd continue on and hope to do a masters in maths, switch tracks from there on. Anyone happen to know of any MSc in maths that accept people without maths degrees by any chance?!

I wouldn't think so tbh. Even if you could, I think you'd be better off switiching to an undergrad degree in Maths. Doing a Masters in Maths without a maths degree would be very difficult.

nesf

Knife-WREEENCH wrote: »

A B1 at Leaving Cert is 80-84%: that's still a great result. In college, a first class honour is 70%.

Eh, seriously taking things out of context there. It's easier (in pure Maths at least) to get 90+% in the LC than to scrape 70% in college!

That said, the rule of thumb a Maths professor gave to me as a B in the LC should be good enough to warrant trying pure Maths at least. His point was that what was rewarded at LC level was quite different to what is expected at college level and what really matters is how comfortable the person is with the subject rather than whether they could ace the LC.

Avasere

Thanks for the advice, really appreciate all your input. I would pick an interesting subject over an easy one any day. I've still got a fair amount of thinking to do, but thanks!

Hypnotoad

I suppose I should stick this here. I'm going into Trinity to do a common science degree and was planning on doing maths, physics and geography. Anyway, I only did pass maths in the leaving cert and got an A2. Am I deluding myself thinking I'll be able for it?

nesf

Hypnotoad wrote: »

I suppose I should stick this here. I'm going into Trinity to do a common science degree and was planning on doing maths, physics and geography. Anyway, I only did pass maths in the leaving cert and got an A2. Am I deluding myself thinking I'll be able for it?

Did you do pass Maths because you found Honours Maths too hard or were you lazy/had a bad teacher/couldn't be bothered etc? (no offence meant, just that I've met quite a few people who did pass Maths who were lazy who went on to be very good at college level maths).

DeVore

LC Maths bears almost no relationship to 3rd level maths.

Thats said, if you couldnt handle Honours maths because it was too complex... then yes, you might need to think about it again.

What Nesf said is true too, the reasons you chose Pass maths are important. (I would be surprised if they let you in with only pass maths.... they used to require a C in honours...)

DeV.

nesf

DeVore wrote: »

Thats said, if you couldnt handle Honours maths because it was too complex... then yes, you might need to think about it again.

I'd go further than that, if you found Honours Maths too complex and didn't happen to have the worst teacher in the world then I'd be honestly extremely shocked if you could deal with Maths as a degree subject at Third level. There will always be a few exceptions to this but seriously the complexity of Third Level Maths is far far in excess of the complexity of even the most difficult parts of Honours Maths.

Calina

I'm glad I found this thread.

I would welcome comments on the following.

I did higher level maths in 1990 and came home with a B. For anyone comparatively young[er than me] we didn't have graduated grades at the time, so a B is where it's at.

Since then I have done a degree in foreign languages, postgraduate studies in both foreign languages and information technology. I'm interested in going back and looking at maths as a college course.

From what I can see, part time (assuming I still have a job) options are DIT or the Open University. I can't see that it's possible to do maths part time in UCD or Trinity and this is a pity because from what I can see, the syllabus in UCD interests me greatly. There are zero part time options for applied maths in DCU which is the closest university to me. Detail on what's covered in the initial maths modules at open.ac.uk is so far not quite clear enough to me so far.

I'm not all that interested in the arguments over what sort of job I'd get out of this. I have spent 10 years working writing assembler code and that was hardly an obvious job for a foreign languages grad.

So I'm asking two things I guess:

1) worth my while doing a leaving cert maths course in the evening to "refresh" if you like? I've no desire to resit leaving cert maths - I did it once before or is it more worth my while to read [again] a few of the popular maths books?

2) any part time options I've missed within reasonable distance of Dublin or by distance education?

Hypnotoad

Thanks for the replies.

No one in my year sat LC maths doing honours. I think by mid 5th year everyone had been moved to pass maths regardless of their ability. Honestly, the teachers couldn't teach it to the year. (I don't really like to blame the teachers though).

For me personally, I lost interest in doing anything in school due to family problems in 4th year I think. It was only in very late 6th year that I actually decided to start working, and in that time I learned most of the pass maths (and every other) course myself. I think I had the ability to do it but I'll never know now unfortunately.

If that is the case that I won't be allowed do it due to a lack of requirement then thanks for help anyway!

nesf

Hypnotoad wrote: »

Thanks for the replies.

No one in my year sat LC maths doing honours. I think by mid 5th year everyone had been moved to pass maths regardless of their ability. Honestly, the teachers couldn't teach it to the year. (I don't really like to blame the teachers though).

For me personally, I lost interest in doing anything in school due to family problems in 4th year I think. It was only in very late 6th year that I actually decided to start working, and in that time I learned most of the pass maths (and every other) course myself. I think I had the ability to do it but I'll never know now unfortunately.

If that is the case that I won't be allowed do it due to a lack of requirement then thanks for help anyway!

There's an easy way to know, pick up an honours maths book and start doing some of the problems. If you taught yourself pass Maths then you should be able to quickly figure out whether or not you can do the stuff. That you could manage to study Maths independently at second level is a good sign!

Hypnotoad

nesf wrote: »

There's an easy way to know, pick up an honours maths book and start doing some of the problems. If you taught yourself pass Maths then you should be able to quickly figure out whether or not you can do the stuff. That you could manage to study Maths independently at second level is a good sign!

Never thought of that! Thanks for the idea. I'm a little more confident I'll be able for it now. If not, it's not the end of the world.

dan719

I think now would be an appropriate time to respond to this thread. I'm currently studying for repeats in second year maths at TCD. (As an aside rjt is off doing research in Lin. Algebra somewhere- I worry about that man's love of linear algebra

)

I don't think there is any comparison between maths at second level and third level. For the LC I think most 'talented' mathematicians will usually get a handy A without too much effort. Most will probably have the same in physics and applied maths. So IMO and this is just my opinion I really don't think people struggling for Bs will do very well in the course. (This isn't meant to be condescending- I had the As and am now pretty much bottom of my degree.)

To anyone who does do a degree in Maths, I would say work. In first year I got a first with very little real work, not doing assignments and survivng on night before cramming. I tried to pull the same stunt this year but it simply isn't possible with all the learning required. By not doing your assignments and not attending lectures you leave yourself with a mountain to climb. However a lot of courses will be much more theorem heavy then most people expect, and for someone who much prefers problem solving this can be quite annoying. However it seems that course options broaden next year (I won't be around to find out- am taking a year out, the drop out/transfer rate in maths is pretty huge) so that one could concentrate on courses such as Partial Differential equations, maths methods and other so called problem based courses.

I suppose that as with anything, you probably won't enjoy all of it, but if you are resdonably talented at maths and are willing to work, you'll be fine.