'Libertas call to close borders sparks race row'

herya · 15-05-2009 10:31PM

procure11 wrote: »

Most EU countries use this as a weapon to discourage immigrants and it works ,so essentially most eastern europeans would consider working in Ireland before enquiring where Sweden is on the map of Europe.

Not exactly true, I have family in Sweden, used to visit there and Sweden is choked full of immigrants. I can't assess their level of Swedish but they seem to be doing fine. There is big community of migrants from Poland, Lithuania and Latvia - language might be a disadvantage but their home country is just across the pond with frequent ferry services.

15-05-2009 10:54PM

dr.bollocko wrote: »

He's a ****ing idiot.

Why is he an idiot?

I agree Libertas are a bunch of creeps but his point is valid.

There are enough IRISH nationals who cant find work and an influx of thousands of immigrants per month into the country in a time of recession is not going to help that.

Get off your pc high horse.You look after your own first,period!

procure11 · 15-05-2009 10:57PM

herya wrote: »

Not exactly true, I have family in Sweden, used to visit there and Sweden is choked full of immigrants. I can't assess their level of Swedish but they seem to be doing fine. There is big community of migrants from Poland, Lithuania and Latvia - language might be a disadvantage but their home country is just across the pond with frequent ferry services.

Comparatively..You could say the same thing if you visited Germany or France with their large population of Immigrants of the named nationalities,but contextually what I meant was that it would be very difficult for a Latvian who does not have any relatives in Sweden to go there because of the barriers she/he would face because of language constraints.

When they were admitted to the EU in 2004 ,a sizeable number of Polish went to Germany because they had friends or family who were already settled there via other means prior to their admission as a result of historical factors and proximity.I am mainly referring to people who who after 2004 had to decide where to immigrate to due to their admission to the EU.

markopantelic · 15-05-2009 10:58PM

Diana Savory Interpreter wrote: »

Why is he an idiot?

There are enough IRISH nationals who cant find work and an influx of thousands of immigrants per month into the country in a time of recession is not going to help that.

Get off your pc high horse.You look after your own first,period!

I absolutely despise that phrase. What is 'your own'? Should I be disgusted if I see someone from the country coming down here and taking a job I could do?

herya · 15-05-2009 11:01PM

Mena wrote: »

As I said, no more free movement, you need to apply for and be granted a blue card, which would not be a certainty, and then and only then could you go live and work in the UK, France, Spain, Northern Ireland (yes, Northern Ireland) and then only for a period of two years.

If this is really what they came up with it only confirms that the whole issue is just some cynical pre election concoction. There's no way a bill like that would be passed in Europe.

OPENROAD · 15-05-2009 11:02PM

Diana Savory Interpreter wrote: »

I agree Libertas are a bunch of creeps but his point is valid.

His point is valid? Ban the free movement of labour between EU states?

OPENROAD · 15-05-2009 11:02PM

herya wrote: »

If this is really what they came up with it only confirms that the whole issue is just some cynical pre election concoction. There's no way a bill like that would be passed in Europe.

That is why I find it hard to believe it is party policy.

Mena · 15-05-2009 11:07PM

Diana Savory Interpreter wrote: »

.You look after your own first,period!

I have news for you, we're al part of the human race. "Your own" includes some 6.5 billion others as well. Just because you were born 4mls south of some arbitrary line on a map makes nobody special in any way.

I'm 37 years old and I still don't "get" this nationality or patriotism crap.

Biggins · 15-05-2009 11:08PM

I suspect we have a case of someone trying to grab a few more supporters from a small fringe section of citizens.
Trying to grab them with quick words that can be dumped in a flash once they have a few more drawn in.

Hell, FF, FG and Labour, Sinn Fein, etc do it all the time!

Mena · 15-05-2009 11:13PM

Biggins wrote: »

I suspect we have a case of someone trying to grab a few more supporters from a small fringe section of citizens.
Trying to grab them with quick words that can be dumped in a flash once they have a few more drawn in.

Hell, FF, FG and Labour, Sinn Fein, etc do it all the time!

Possible, but surely Declan Ganley has more "control" over his minions than this? I would have thought that you could not just go on national radio and declare party policy without it actually being party policy.

Riddle101 · 15-05-2009 11:16PM

I do agree with reducing immigration. At these current times, it's hard for even Irish people to get jobs, let alone Foreign Nationals. What's the point of them coming over here, when they simply won't get anything better over here. As well as that there are also foriegn nationals, who abuse the system and think that they can get free money or a new house out of it. I think this issue needs to be addressed because it is an issue that will have a great affect on Ireland as time goes by.

Biggins · 15-05-2009 11:17PM

Mena wrote: »

Possible, but surely Declan Ganley has more "control" over his minions than this? I would have thought that you could not just go on national radio and declare party policy without it actually being party policy.

Hasn't stopped many a local politician before!
He probably has the same control over his own people as Cowen has on his for example and Sinn Fein has over its outer even more fringe lunatics to be honest.

OPENROAD · 15-05-2009 11:22PM

Mena wrote: »

Possible, but surely Declan Ganley has more "control" over his minions than this? I would have thought that you could not just go on national radio and declare party policy without it actually being party policy.

If it is ,this is a fundamental policy for them, I have had a couple of leaflets in the door from them and no mention has been made of this, I haven't listended to the clip yet, I will in a bit, to be fair to Declan Ganley I have heard many politicians give interviews and come out with statements that don't tally with party policy and have to be backtrack very quickly a day or two later. Again having listened to Declan Ganley both in the Irish media and particular on UK tv where he has been quizzed in detail on his party, I never got the impression the party held such views on immigration.

OPENROAD · 15-05-2009 11:23PM

Riddle101 wrote: »

I do agree with reducing immigration. At these current times, it's hard for even Irish people to get jobs, let alone Foreign Nationals. What's the point of them coming over here, when they simply won't get anything better over here. As well as that there are also foriegn nationals, who abuse the system and think that they can get free money or a new house out of it. I think this issue needs to be addressed because it is an issue that will have a great affect on Ireland as time goes by.

So you agree with reducing EU immigration?

cooperguy · 15-05-2009 11:24PM

There isnt a huge influx of immigrants any more. These people know there is no jobs here. They arent stupid. This is just scare tactics by the idiots in Libertas trying to grab some votes. If you think there is still huge immigration feel free to prove it.

Terry · 15-05-2009 11:35PM

Des wrote: »

It would seem we have.

That is why the amount of people in this thread who agree with the Libertas man are staying silent.

They are afraid of what the retards will say about them.

Careful now.

15-05-2009 11:45PM

Mena wrote: »

I have news for you, we're al part of the human race. "Your own" includes some 6.5 billion others as well. Just because you were born 4mls south of some arbitrary line on a map makes nobody special in any way.

I'm 37 years old and I still don't "get" this nationality or patriotism crap.

Well if your not patriotic thats your business,but most people are.

People who were born and have lived in Ireland all their life should not be forced to move abroad due to not being able to find a job because any low pay jobs have been taken by foreigners.
They should be offered them first.

I suppose you are also in favour of imigrants getting council houses before Irish nationals,because the government is to scared they will pull the race card.

Biggins · 15-05-2009 11:47PM

The catchy words "plausible deniability" stick in my mind.

Lets look at the situation realistically - Ganley has set up an organisation that is still in its infancy.
As such its seemingly a loose base of wanna-be politicians who otherwise might have been scrambling (and failing more so) for higher positions within more home-based political parties.
Given that this newly formed group of "whatever" have come together in what is in reality a short space of time, I sure Ganley knows they all don't follow his exact line of thinking and policy.
Unless he's sat them all down and interrogated them to a high degree - he's realistically hoping that his new underlings will for the majority of the time spout their version of a party line.
...and knowing that will not happen occasionally but spout something for their own local masses, he'd realistically expect each and every one of them once in a while to come out with some rubbish he might not agree with. He'd be a fool NOT to think it.

So when it come to party official policy and putting it down on legal paper, anything that has been mouthed by an offspring, can be plausibly denied later as non-official doctrine and castigated and spun as "discussion material".

...its all PR for the masses, get a few more supporters and get a few more votes!
No different than any other political party trying to get votes, seats and perks!

Tigger · 15-05-2009 11:53PM

we see libertas trolling : we hating

seriously guys as ah posters can we not see when someone is trying to shit stir

OPENROAD · 15-05-2009 11:54PM

Diana Savory Interpreter wrote: »

Well if your not patriotic thats your business,but most people are.

People who were born and have lived in Ireland all their life should not be forced to move abroad due to not being able to find a job because any low pay jobs have been taken by foreigners.
They should be offered them first.

I suppose you are also in favour of imigrants getting council houses before Irish nationals,because the government is to scared they will pull the race card.

Should Irish people be allowed emigrate or is that different. Up until very recently Irish people would not apply for low skilled jobs. As an EU citizen you can work in the UK, just as someone from the UK can work here. What about high skilled people who have skills that are beneficial to the country?

cooperguy · 15-05-2009 11:56PM

Diana Savory Interpreter wrote: »

Well if your not patriotic thats your business,but most people are.

People who were born and have lived in Ireland all their life should not be forced to move abroad due to not being able to find a job because any low pay jobs have been taken by foreigners.
They should be offered them first.

I suppose you are also in favour of imigrants getting council houses before Irish nationals,because the government is to scared they will pull the race card.

Where is this happening? Where are all these new immigrants coming from? Or are you suggesting we go around the country and taking all immigrants out of jobs they already have and deporting them?

herya · 15-05-2009 11:57PM

Diana Savory Interpreter wrote: »

People who were born and have lived in Ireland all their life should not be forced to move abroad due to not being able to find a job because any low pay jobs have been taken by foreigners.
They should be offered them first.

Sorry to burst your bubble but if people are forced to move abroad it's due to banking and credit crisis plus global recession. Foreigners are leaving in droves themselves. If a political party wants you to concentrate on employee nationalities in your company (and not on the fact that said company can't get credit or can't sell product due to market collapse - nothing to do with foreigners) it's only because they have no clue what to do about the real problem and they want to sell you bull so that you don't press them on the real stuff.

And it works!

Tigger · 15-05-2009 11:59PM

i like the tag

markopantelic · 16-05-2009 12:00AM

lol

Riddle101 · 16-05-2009 12:04AM

OPENROAD wrote: »

So you agree with reducing EU immigration?

I think there should be tougher Immigration laws, I don't agree with reducing it all together. I think there should be laws and procedure placed, to deal with immigration

For example
(1)Routine checks- I think there should be a new department established that deals with immigration, and in doing so they keep records of all the immigrants in the country so that every six months they can have check ups to see what they're up to and to make sure that they're working. If after a certain amount of failed check ups, then they should be deported because there is no reason to keep them in the country, if they arn't doing anything

(2)Foriegn Nationals with no qualifications should not be allowed in- If they don't have any skills or qualifications then there is no reason to employ them. However if they come over here for education then that should be acceptible as long as they stay true to their word, and don't just slack off. Again this goes back to the rountine checks.

(3)No more excuses for free homes. I heard a lot of stories where foriegn national families have managed to get a free house, simply because they're child has a cough. I don't know exactly why, but it has happened were docters have written letters saying that a child of a certain family is ill and needs to stay in the country, and that allows them to get a free house or something.

(4)Foreign Nationals with a history of being on the wrong side of the law should not be allowed in. If a foriegn national has been arrested, then they should not be allowed in, simple as. the US does it, and so should we.

(5)Gypsies should not be allowed in- It's more to do with my personal opinion, but let's be fair here. There are loads of them out there, scaming people and stuff like that. They beg on the streets for money, depsite the fact that gypsies, are the richest families in Eastern Europe. They send the money they get over here back over there and they don't care about working.

Tigger · 16-05-2009 12:05AM

more tags all good

i shall now deport myself correctly

O'Coonassa · 16-05-2009 12:06AM

irishgrover wrote: »

..... whereas you state with regards to "our own people" yours are humans. If I was a narrow minded I might infer (possibly wrongly) that you were advocating a completely open door polity to residential and work rights in Ireland.

Ya irishgrover, my people, the poor eejits everywhere on my planet Earth. I like moving around amongst them and I hate to be having to hop imaginary borders and work black.

OPENROAD · 16-05-2009 12:09AM

Riddle101 wrote: »

For example
(1)Routine checks- I think there should be a new department established that deals with immigration, and in doing so they keep records of all the immigrants in the country so that every six months they can have check ups to see what they're up to and to make sure that they're working. If after a certain amount of failed check ups, then they should be deported because there is no reason to keep them in the country, if they arn't doing anything

Going to be a lot of Irish being sent back to Ireland, will we be able to cope with the influx?

BlitzKrieg · 16-05-2009 12:14AM

finally home at my own computer so i can listen to the radio broadcast.

Can I punch the sky in triumph because as I hoped it is in fact Caroline Simmons once again sticking her foot in her mouth.

Caroline Simmons who:
-Used wikipedia as a source when attacking the Green party (and got pulled by the radio host on it)
-Attacked De Rossa for being *old* at the launch of her campaign. Declan Ganley had to come in and stop her and change her attack to *cynism*
-When asked to name one of the 80% of irish laws that were *made in brussals* she couldnt name one and had to finally setlle with the labelling. 80% of our laws and she could only think of labelling.
-And now she states that libertas are aiming to destroy the freedom of movement for ALL EU STATES and replace it with a *online visa* system known as bluecards.

The women is the sarah palin of irish politics.

Mena · 16-05-2009 12:24AM

Riddle101 wrote: »

I think there should be tougher Immigration laws, I don't agree with reducing it all together. I think there should be laws and procedure placed, to deal with immigration

For example
(1)Routine checks- I think there should be a new department established that deals with immigration, and in doing so they keep records of all the immigrants in the country so that every six months they can have check ups to see what they're up to and to make sure that they're working. If after a certain amount of failed check ups, then they should be deported because there is no reason to keep them in the country, if they arn't doing anything

Already have these. The first five years we were here we got butt "^$'ed by immigration every year. Trust me, it's not an ordeal you'd like to go through.

Riddle101 wrote: »

(2)Foriegn Nationals with no qualifications should not be allowed in- If they don't have any skills or qualifications then there is no reason to employ them. However if they come over here for education then that should be acceptible as long as they stay true to their word, and don't just slack off. Again this goes back to the rountine checks.

Not so sure about this one. In general maybe but you can't have this as a blanket rule. Take my situation for example. 20 years experience, no formal qualifications, and earning three times the average industrial wage. No quals does not equate to a job at the local Centra all the time.

Riddle101 wrote: »

(3)No more excuses for free homes. I heard a lot of stories where foriegn national families have managed to get a free house, simply because they're child has a cough. I don't know exactly why, but it has happened were docters have written letters saying that a child of a certain family is ill and needs to stay in the country, and that allows them to get a free house or something.

lol, really, how can anyone believe this crap. Hell, my daughter has Asthma, where do I sign up? Can finally get rid of this stupid mortgage.

Riddle101 wrote: »

(4)Foreign Nationals with a history of being on the wrong side of the law should not be allowed in. If a foriegn national has been arrested, then they should not be allowed in, simple as. the US does it, and so should we.

Can't argue this to be fair. Most countries already have this policy.

Riddle101 wrote: »

(5)Gypsies should not be allowed in- It's more to do with my personal opinion, but let's be fair here. There are loads of them out there, scaming people and stuff like that. They beg on the streets for money, depsite the fact that gypsies, are the richest families in Eastern Europe. They send the money they get over here back over there and they don't care about working.

I have to lump this one with #3, sorry.

'Libertas call to close borders sparks race row'

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