'Libertas call to close borders sparks race row'

Quint · 15-05-2009 12:21PM

When Irish people go abroad it's to work, but when people come here it's to scrounge off out welfare system. And eat our swans

0ubliette · 15-05-2009 12:24PM

Seriously, you can all cry 'RACISM!' and then throw in a few south park 'day turk are jerbs' quotes all you like but it doesnt change the fact that the man has a valid point. It isnt being racist to say that in a small country with limited resources that it would be a wise decision to limit the influx of foreign nationals seeking work in the face of a global recession.
Australia did it, Canada did it, i dont see anyone calling their leaders racists. The economy is ****, jobs are few and far between, only a complete simpelton would think its a good idea to leave borders wide open to all and sundry to come in and look for work.

irishgrover · 15-05-2009 12:24PM

humanji wrote: »

I'd say it's safe to call the race card with Libertas since they joined up with one of the Nazi parties in Germany.

to be honest I'm not sure he said anything particularly offensive, some of the points he raised could be debated in rational terms by mature and sensible politicians (excuse oxymoron). My mini rant was aimed at the Fine Gael "race card" response - especially ironic given Leo's R. suggestion a few months ago to look at paying money to accession state member citizens, who were resident in Ireland, to get on a plane and go home.

Re: Libertas; it's not really surprising that they would align on some capacity or another with nut jobs all over Europe. I've nothing positive to say about Libertas, just negative things to say about the "playing the race card" responses from the competition

SWL · 15-05-2009 12:32PM

irishgrover wrote: »

to be honest I'm not sure he said anything particularly offensive, some of the points he raised could be debated in rational terms by mature and sensible politicians (excuse oxymoron). My mini rant was aimed at the Fine Gael "race card" response - especially ironic given Leo's R. suggestion a few months ago to look at paying money to accession state member citizens, who were resident in Ireland, to get on a plane and go home.

They are doing just that in Spain at the moment, Latin Americans are not too happy about it either.

I stand corrected did Dick Roche TD not state that Ireland voted for Nice two we could get a dispensation against open EU boarder with accession countries. Can’t find the link if do I will post it.
Germany and Austria have decided to extend its decision not to open its boarder to EU accession countries. See link
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/82fb2c88-34cc-11de-940a-00144feabdc0.html

Morlar · 15-05-2009 12:34PM

FYI a poll has been added to this thread.

ejmaztec · 15-05-2009 12:34PM

Quint wrote: »

When Irish people go abroad it's to work, but when people come here it's to scrounge off out welfare system. And eat our swans

Welcome to Boards Mr. Ganley.

TheBlock · 15-05-2009 12:36PM

0ubliette wrote: »

Seriously, you can all cry 'RACISM!' and then throw in a few south park 'day turk are jerbs' quotes all you like but it doesnt change the fact that the man has a valid point. It isnt being racist to say that in a small country with limited resources that it would be a wise decision to limit the influx of foreign nationals seeking work in the face of a global recession.
Australia did it, Canada did it, i dont see anyone calling their leaders racists. The economy is ****, jobs are few and far between, only a complete simpelton would think its a good idea to leave borders wide open to all and sundry to come in and look for work.

We signed up for this..we can't try and back out now because the handy money on the building sites is gone and the lads want their jobs back in mcdonalds. These so called Job Stealers will only stay here as long as the jobs are here theres already enough eveidence of them returning home or following the jobs to other countries.

We were happy to have them doing our Ironing or cleaning our house two years ago now we want rid?

What he say may not be racist but its not a million miles from Xenophobia.

neil_hosey · 15-05-2009 12:38PM

I remember this argument coming up when we first opened up our borders and the response from the gubernment was that we needed immigrants to fill jobs and this was one of the main reason to let so many in.

Well it only seems right now considering our economy is fooked that we should close the borders and adopt a Aussie point of view on this...

TheBlock wrote: »

We were happy to have them doing our Ironing or cleaning our house two years ago now we want rid?

Who said anything about job stealers or getting 'rid' of anyone. We should close the borders not kick people out, its not that difficult to comprehend.

ScumLord · 15-05-2009 12:40PM

Morlar wrote: »

If we keep taking in as many foreigners then the likelihood is quite high at some point that Irish people looking for work (rather than benefits) may have to look further afield than the already overcrowded domestic jobs market.

If we do we will be in competition with UK citizens for slots in places like canada, australia and the usa where they do not currently have a 'free-for all borders' approach anyway so there are no bridges to burn there.

Why would we go all the way to far off lands when you can go to any of the European countries? All Europe's manufacturing is moving east. While the wages aren't worth it at the moment that could change. Then you have the likes of Germany or the Nordic lads that have the smarts to stay ahead of the curve.

TheZohanS · 15-05-2009 12:41PM

Raymond O'Malley, who is running in the European elections in the East constituency, said the borders should be closed to the 10 accession states as long as Ireland's high unemployment rate persists.

The Libertas candidate claimed over 29,000 PPS numbers were handed out to foreign nationals since January of this year.

"I think we've got to stop it. I think we have to look after our own people," Mr O'Malley said.

Asked if "barriers" should be put up, Mr O'Malley said: "As long as we've this rate of unemployment, yes."

Given the current economic difficulties and the rising unemployment rates, no additional foreign nationals should be given residency, he argued.

Libertas: Latin for "Freedom"

.

_blank_ · 15-05-2009 12:44PM

People calling this man a racist are fúcking idiots. The bloody lot of them.

He isn't being racist.

Ireland should not have opened it's borders so freely, no way.

I won't vote for Libertas one way or another, I think they are nothing short of reactionary, with conflicting policies in different countries.

But in this instance, I think the man makes a very good point.

I also agree with Degsy, that Irish people who are not prepared to work for a living should be fúcked off the dole also.

Before all you recession-hit redundant people jump down my throat, please read my post correctly.

This country NEEDS a proper right thinking political party, not some National Front, not some Stormfront, not some UKIP, but a non left-leaning party to vote for would be nice.

I hate these lefty-liberal ****.

meditraitor · 15-05-2009 12:52PM

Raymond O'Malley, who is running in the European elections in the East constituency, said the borders should be closed to the 10 accession states as long as Ireland's high unemployment rate persists.

The Libertas candidate claimed over 29,000 PPS numbers were handed out to foreign nationals since January of this year.

"I think we've got to stop it. I think we have to look after our own people," Mr O'Malley said.

Asked if "barriers" should be put up, Mr O'Malley said: "As long as we've this rate of unemployment, yes."

Given the current economic difficulties and the rising unemployment rates, no additional foreign nationals should be given residency, he argued.

29,000 new PPS numbers is a lot, with the amount of job losses it seems a bit crazy. What are these people thinking?

Is there any statistics on the PPS numbers that have become inactive over that period. I.E immigrants going home?

Morlar · 15-05-2009 12:54PM

ScumLord wrote: »

Then you have the likes of Germany or the Nordic lads that have the smarts to stay ahead of the curve.

Germany already limits access to its labour market.

Capt'n Midnight · 15-05-2009 12:56PM

So Libertas are like the BNP.

But lets block up the boarders, stop all them Irish people up north coming down here to draw our dole.

What about the speed limit on the Dublin-Belfast road , how are they going to check the documents/contents of cars travelling at 110kmph ??

The Libertas candidate claimed over 29,000 PPS numbers were handed out to foreign nationals since January of this year.do they have a break down ?
How many were to UK nationals, of those how many to those of Irish extraction ?
How many were to other EU nationals ?
How many were to Oz / Nz and other first world countries ?
How many were to others who do jobs that Irish people won't ?
How does the remaining number compare to the numbers of people who leave our fair shores ?

RKDus · 15-05-2009 01:01PM

It would be funny if Libertas got all immigrants kicked out of the country. I have an image in my head of Declan Ganley standing on a boat and wiping a tear away.

ScumLord · 15-05-2009 01:03PM

Morlar wrote: »

Germany already limits access to its labour market.

It's still easier to get a job there than any of the countries you mentioned. I just think we should be aware that Europe works both ways, if we lock the door we might end up locking ourselves in as much as we're locking people out.

I'm all for proper restrictions by the way, there's no point letting people in to work when there's high unemployment I just don't want to see an over reaction that ends up bitting us in the ass later on. I'm sick of that happening because the people in charge react to the first scare monger without actually putting any thought into it.

mike65 · 15-05-2009 01:05PM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

The Libertas candidate claimed over 29,000 PPS numbers were handed out to foreign nationals since January of this year.do they have a break down ?
How many were to UK nationals, of those how many to those of Irish extraction ?

Are you suggesting ethnic profiling?

SWL · 15-05-2009 01:06PM

RKDus wrote: »

It would be funny if Libertas got all immigrants kicked out of the country. I have an image in my head of Declan Ganley standing on a boat and wiping a tear away.

Nobody suggested kicking them out, a temporary ban on new people coming in particularly those from the EU accession states, where we can't control the numbers unlike a visa scheme.

As already posted Germany has decided to extend its ban, so why don't we do something to protect the economic and social infrastructure for this country.

If racial tension can exist in Sweden they can exit anywhere

dsmythy · 15-05-2009 01:09PM

RKDus wrote: »

It would be funny if Libertas got all immigrants kicked out of the country. I have an image in my head of Declan Ganley standing on a boat and wiping a tear away.

Such a thing was never suggested. Ganley is an Irish citizen.

snubbleste · 15-05-2009 01:11PM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

The Libertas candidate claimed over 29,000 PPS numbers were handed out to foreign nationals since January of this year.do they have a break down ?
How many were to UK nationals, of those how many to those of Irish extraction ?
How many were to other EU nationals ?
How many were to Oz / Nz and other first world countries ?
How many were to others who do jobs that Irish people won't ?
How does the remaining number compare to the numbers of people who leave our fair shores ?

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Topics/PPSN/Pages/ppsn_all_month09.aspx

O'Coonassa · 15-05-2009 01:15PM

Morlar wrote: »

"I think we've got to stop it. I think we have to look after our own people," Mr O'Malley said.

Who the fvck are 'our own people'? Mine are humans. He sounds like the BNP. Will the people coming here not pay taxes and contribute to this society?

RKDus · 15-05-2009 01:30PM

dsmythy wrote: »

Such a thing was never suggested. Ganley is an Irish citizen.

Of course not, I was just trying to be funny

LaMer · 15-05-2009 01:35PM

The fact that most these immigrants are taking non-skilled or tradesman work is really beyond Mr. O'Malley. I don't see how the race card comes in however.

It's all bull**** by libertas, they disregard that some foreign nationals may come to start business, adding to employment.

dr.bollocko · 15-05-2009 01:36PM

Immigration didnt cause a recession.
Rich ***** like ganley did.
And now money's tight and the reactionary armchair politicians want us to f*** out the foreigner and go all hard right on the country and find a non-native minority to demonise.
Well I'm not buying the reactionary crap.
Ganley has no policies. Look at the representatives of his party around Europe. Look at their backers.
There is no merit in what this guy says because he has not a single clue about how to acheive it. It's like the KKK putting forward a sound theory about the recession that conveniently involves killing black people.
I'm not saying its racist. Im simply saying its nonsense.

book smarts · 15-05-2009 01:40PM

Can immigrants claim unemployment assistance upon arriving? Doesn't the state commited to house and feed refugees also? They need 2 years paid PRSI for benefit don't they?

LaMer · 15-05-2009 01:44PM

book smarts wrote: »

Can immigrants claim unemployment assistance upon arriving? Doesn't the state commited to house and feed refugees also? They need 2 years paid PRSI for benefit don't they?

Refugees and immigrants are two different things really. The government has an obligation to house and feed someone who meets the criteria of asylum seeker from political/ethnic strife. AFAIK anyway, the need to claim asylum when they enter, and that is assessed by Immigration.

irishgrover · 15-05-2009 01:46PM

O'Coonassa wrote: »

Who the fvck are 'our own people'? Mine are humans. He sounds like the BNP. Will the people coming here not pay taxes and contribute to this society?

In fairness, and without meaning to be offensive, I think your post highlights the issues and polarization that often happens when debating this issue.
Your quote without any context would appear to indicate that he is a tad xenophobic/BNP/racist/whatever, but he also in the same conversation stated that
"However, those already resident in Ireland should be allowed remain. They're here. They're very welcome and they'll have to stay"
...and...
"Our immigration policy is hurting the domestic economy, placing vulnerable people -- especially asylum seekers -- at risk, and allowing our EU partners to ignore their legal obligations"

So it would appear that foreign nationals working and living in Ireland, and asylum seekers would be included in the term "Our Own People".

He appears to be proposing a moratorium on migrants from the recent EU succession states, economic migrants from other areas and I've no idea what if anything he has proposed on asylum seekers

..... whereas you state with regards to "our own people" yours are humans. If I was a narrow minded I might infer (possibly wrongly) that you were advocating a completely open door polity to residential and work rights in Ireland.

Again, my issue, (not directed at all to you) it that it frustrates me immencely that we seem incapable of genuine debate without assigning extreme polarization to either side of the debate..

passive · 15-05-2009 01:49PM

if we shut our borders I won't be able to jump ship from this no-to-lisbon corruption-happy healthcare-less mess of a country. I disapprove of this plan.

spank_inferno · 15-05-2009 01:51PM

I listened to that interview on the Last word on Today FM yesterday.
Mat Cooper in his usual fake shock seemed surprised by it of course.

But look at it like this:
After the 10 new states joined the union, only 3 of the original 15 member states allowed free labour movement from the new 10 nations

those were the UK, Sweden & Ireland.

The other 12 original members restricted free movement of workers as was their right to decide

In 2007 when Bulgaria & Romania joined the EU, Our government decided not to allow them free movement of workers from those 2 countries, as was their right to decide.

A lot of people in this country think that once a country is in the EU its a free for all of immigration, the fact is it isnt.

The Irish government can restrict the movement of labour from any of the 10 nations that joined the EU in 2004, they could do so today if they wished.

This isnt a race row, nothing of the sort.
Should Ireland restrict movement of labour from the eastern european countries that joined in 2004.

The answer is yes, its simply not sensible to think otherwise.

jhegarty · 15-05-2009 01:57PM

To the people saying they are like the BNP.

Do you think the BNP in power in the 12 EU states that restrict movement ?

'Libertas call to close borders sparks race row'

Comments