'Libertas call to close borders sparks race row'

Morlar

Anybody else agree/disagree with this ? I would be curious as to why this would be seen as a bad idea given our already spiralling unemployment rate and crippling massive HSE/Social welfare bills. It seems to me the people in opposition to this would be the ones who are living in a fantasy land and it is about time Irish politicians addressed these issues in a non-hysterical kind of pragmatic way devoid of political correctness which seems to be crippling all our other main political parties.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/libertas-call--to-close-borders-sparks-race-row-1739889.html



A Libertas election candidate was last night accused of "playing the race card" after claiming Ireland's borders should be closed to stop any future influx of foreign nationals.

Raymond O'Malley, who is running in the European elections in the East constituency, said the borders should be closed to the 10 accession states as long as Ireland's high unemployment rate persists.

The Libertas candidate claimed over 29,000 PPS numbers were handed out to foreign nationals since January of this year.

"I think we've got to stop it. I think we have to look after our own people," Mr O'Malley said.

Asked if "barriers" should be put up, Mr O'Malley said: "As long as we've this rate of unemployment, yes."

Given the current economic difficulties and the rising unemployment rates, no additional foreign nationals should be given residency, he argued. However, those already resident in Ireland should be allowed remain.

"They're here. They're very welcome and they'll have to stay," he told 'The Last Word' with Matt Cooper on Today FM.

"There's been a funnel effect because Ireland was only one of three EU countries that allowed the accession states to have free access to our labour market."

Last night, his constituency rival, Fine Gael senator John Paul Phelan, accused Mr O'Malley of "playing the race card".

Outrageous

"I was shocked at his outrageous statement. This is fantasy economics by Libertas. To try and blame foreign nationals for our economic problems is completely missing the point," he said.

Defending his remarks last night, Mr O'Malley said that with 400,000 Irish people out of work, it is no longer "sound policy" to issue PPS numbers to foreign nationals.

"Our immigration policy is hurting the domestic economy, placing vulnerable people -- especially asylum seekers -- at risk, and allowing our EU partners to ignore their legal obligations," he told the Irish Independent.

- ine Kerr Political Correspondent

RonMexico

He is right.

Degsy

Certainly favour irish people in the jobs market if they actually apply for the jobs in the first place.

There's plenty of foreign people here doing jobs that irish people feel beneath them so they'd rather waste away on the dole.

I do believe that no more work permits should be issued to non-nationals untill the dole queues have been reduced a bit,this should also mean telling people if they dont applyy for jobs they're not getting the dole.

Puddleduck

Ok so John Paul Phelan is basically saying that places like Oz that are tightening up on the borders are 'playing the race card'

dr.bollocko

He's a ****ing idiot.

ScumLord

I think the fact that there's no jobs here will be enough of a deterrent to foreigners to come here. It's not like they come for the friendly atmosphere and sunshine.

IIMII

dr.bollocko wrote: »

He's a ****ing idiot.

He is, but...

Mr O'Malley wrote: »

"There's been a funnel effect because Ireland was only one of three EU countries that allowed the accession states to have free access to our labour market."

And that's why he is right. One of the smallest states opened its doors to a tidel wave of immigration. Nothing wrong with immigration, but 200,000 in the space of 1 year from 2004 - 05 on an island of 5m? Crazy stuff. Now wonder we inflated the economy. There was more to it than that, but it was a significant factor

Morlar

Puddleduck wrote: »

Ok so John Paul Phelan is basically saying that places like Oz that are tightening up on the borders are 'playing the race card'

That is kind of the way I read it too, Australia, USA both far larger scale economies have worked this way for a very long time & I dont see that as 'playing the race card' it looks like at least some kind of attempt to do something about the situation rather than take the head in the sand approach of all the other politicos on this issue. I think even if his comments merely open a dialogue among other politicians on this issue he will have done a good thing that our more established politicians have been too cowardly to deal with.

meglome

I'm no fan of Libertas but the general point is a good one. I'd really hate to see problems between the Irish and foreign workers. Of course many Irish people had no interest in doing crappy jobs up until very recently.

dr.bollocko

Once good people start agreeing with these libertas jackeens and their drivel the trouble is only beginning for this country.

Seaneh

I agree with O'Malley TBH, infact I think it was a mistake allowing free access to our labour market to the new member states in the first place.

Puddleduck

dr.bollocko wrote: »

Once good people start agreeing with these libertas jackeens and their drivel the trouble is only beginning for this country.

Yes, because agreeing with all of the other parties has done us well so far..

irishgrover

why is it that whenever anybody mentions anything about potentially changing anything got to do with border control, immigration, asylum processes etc some other muppet accuses them of "playing the race card".
I seriously fu(king hate that "playing the race card" statement. It heavily implies some racist thought or action on the part of the person proposing change, and as such it stifles democratic debate...annoys the ****e out of me...

Are we not capable of debating immigration issues without one side accusing the other of being racist?

mike65

Classic low cunning politics.

Pick on dem foreigners while refusing to note that EU citizens cannot be stopped from moving between EU states.

IIMII

Seaneh wrote: »

I agree with O'Malley TBH, infact I think it was a mistake allowing free access to our labour market to the new member states in the first place.

Without all of the other EU states doing likewise, it most definitely was

Morlar

ScumLord wrote: »

I think the fact that there's no jobs here will be enough of a deterrent to foreigners to come here. It's not like they come for the friendly atmosphere and sunshine.

I dont think the 'fingers crossed' solution would work with countries like say for example Romania. Expecting them to stay away because there are few jobs here presumes that they are coming for the jobs in the first place. Also bear in mind that Bulgaria has issued substantially large numbers of passports to Moldovan nationals in the last year;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1526256/Bulgaria-opens-back-door-to-the-EU-with-give-away-passports-bonanza.html

Bulgaria is giving away passports to tens of thousands of non-European Union foreigners who will be able to work in Britain when the country joins the EU next January.

Bulgaria's already lax procedures for issuing citizenship are being exploited by corrupt officials who agree to fast-track passports for less than £200 - adding to existing fears in the United Kingdom and western Europe about the large number of migrants, some with criminal records, expected to arrive from Romania and Bulgaria

I dont think it would be a good idea to presume that they would all stay away as there arent as many jobs here as before. If that was the case there would not be so many PPS numbers being issued here right now in my view.

dlofnep

I see Fine Gael got their word in. Is that the same Fine Gael that suggested that we pay foreigners to go back home?

My name is URL

Libertas are the Irish equivalant of the UKIP, they can gtfo imo

TheBlock

Right wing nutters.

markesmith

They love Libertas over on Stormfront now.

Still though...you know? Maybe he has a little bit of a point?

Small open economy and all that?

Reflector

I'm no fan of libertas but I do think that if there is no jobs than the government should reduce the amount of working visas given out and then increase it when the jobs market improves.

Makes sense.

It's not racism it's just common sense.

snubbleste

Immigration is a huge issue in Ireland, it came up over and over on the doorsteps at the 2007 general election. Yet it's barely being mentioned in the mainstream media or in parliament.

ejmaztec

It would be interesting to know what the 29000 are doing. Perhaps they're all translators in full-time employment paying taxes, levies, vat etc etc.

Perhaps Moses 2 brought them to the land of milk and money by parting the Irish Sea and doing Stena out of a few quid.

bladespin

Nazi youth must have changed their name, was interested in what Libertas had to say right up to that point. I'd rather vote FF :eek:

veXual

/redneck accent "They took our jobs!!!!!!!!!!"

Morlar

bladespin wrote: »

Nazi youth must have changed their name, eek:

That didnt take long did it ?

kellsum

There on the dole!

humanji

irishgrover wrote: »

why is it that whenever anybody mentions anything about potentially changing anything got to do with border control, immigration, asylum processes etc some other muppet accuses them of "playing the race card".
I seriously fu(king hate that "playing the race card" statement. It heavily implies some racist thought or action on the part of the person proposing change, and as such it stifles democratic debate...annoys the ****e out of me...

Are we not capable of debating immigration issues without one side accusing the other of being racist?

I'd say it's safe to call the race card with Libertas since they joined up with one of the Nazi parties in Germany.

ejmaztec

veXual wrote: »

/redneck accent "They took our jobs!!!!!!!!!!"

Wonder if Declan Ganley plays the banjo?

ScumLord

Whats the likelihood of another mass immigration of Irish people to other countries? It's something we do fairly regular once the economy hits hard times. We don't want to go burning any bridges.

Morlar

ScumLord wrote: »

Whats the likelihood of another mass immigration of Irish people to other countries? It's something we do fairly regular once the economy hits hard times. We don't want to go burning any bridges.

If we keep taking in as many foreigners then the likelihood is quite high at some point that Irish people looking for work (rather than benefits) may have to look further afield than the already overcrowded domestic jobs market.

If we do we will be in competition with UK citizens for slots in places like canada, australia and the usa where they do not currently have a 'free-for all borders' approach anyway so there are no bridges to burn there.

Quint

When Irish people go abroad it's to work, but when people come here it's to scrounge off out welfare system. And eat our swans

0ubliette

Seriously, you can all cry 'RACISM!' and then throw in a few south park 'day turk are jerbs' quotes all you like but it doesnt change the fact that the man has a valid point. It isnt being racist to say that in a small country with limited resources that it would be a wise decision to limit the influx of foreign nationals seeking work in the face of a global recession.
Australia did it, Canada did it, i dont see anyone calling their leaders racists. The economy is ****, jobs are few and far between, only a complete simpelton would think its a good idea to leave borders wide open to all and sundry to come in and look for work.

irishgrover

humanji wrote: »

I'd say it's safe to call the race card with Libertas since they joined up with one of the Nazi parties in Germany.

to be honest I'm not sure he said anything particularly offensive, some of the points he raised could be debated in rational terms by mature and sensible politicians (excuse oxymoron). My mini rant was aimed at the Fine Gael "race card" response - especially ironic given Leo's R. suggestion a few months ago to look at paying money to accession state member citizens, who were resident in Ireland, to get on a plane and go home.

Re: Libertas; it's not really surprising that they would align on some capacity or another with nut jobs all over Europe. I've nothing positive to say about Libertas, just negative things to say about the "playing the race card" responses from the competition

SWL

irishgrover wrote: »

to be honest I'm not sure he said anything particularly offensive, some of the points he raised could be debated in rational terms by mature and sensible politicians (excuse oxymoron). My mini rant was aimed at the Fine Gael "race card" response - especially ironic given Leo's R. suggestion a few months ago to look at paying money to accession state member citizens, who were resident in Ireland, to get on a plane and go home.

They are doing just that in Spain at the moment, Latin Americans are not too happy about it either.

I stand corrected did Dick Roche TD not state that Ireland voted for Nice two we could get a dispensation against open EU boarder with accession countries. Can’t find the link if do I will post it.
Germany and Austria have decided to extend its decision not to open its boarder to EU accession countries. See link
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/82fb2c88-34cc-11de-940a-00144feabdc0.html

Morlar

FYI a poll has been added to this thread.

ejmaztec

Quint wrote: »

When Irish people go abroad it's to work, but when people come here it's to scrounge off out welfare system. And eat our swans

Welcome to Boards Mr. Ganley.

TheBlock

0ubliette wrote: »

Seriously, you can all cry 'RACISM!' and then throw in a few south park 'day turk are jerbs' quotes all you like but it doesnt change the fact that the man has a valid point. It isnt being racist to say that in a small country with limited resources that it would be a wise decision to limit the influx of foreign nationals seeking work in the face of a global recession.
Australia did it, Canada did it, i dont see anyone calling their leaders racists. The economy is ****, jobs are few and far between, only a complete simpelton would think its a good idea to leave borders wide open to all and sundry to come in and look for work.

We signed up for this..we can't try and back out now because the handy money on the building sites is gone and the lads want their jobs back in mcdonalds. These so called Job Stealers will only stay here as long as the jobs are here theres already enough eveidence of them returning home or following the jobs to other countries.

We were happy to have them doing our Ironing or cleaning our house two years ago now we want rid?

What he say may not be racist but its not a million miles from Xenophobia.

neil_hosey

I remember this argument coming up when we first opened up our borders and the response from the gubernment was that we needed immigrants to fill jobs and this was one of the main reason to let so many in.

Well it only seems right now considering our economy is fooked that we should close the borders and adopt a Aussie point of view on this...

TheBlock wrote: »

We were happy to have them doing our Ironing or cleaning our house two years ago now we want rid?

Who said anything about job stealers or getting 'rid' of anyone. We should close the borders not kick people out, its not that difficult to comprehend.

ScumLord

Morlar wrote: »

If we keep taking in as many foreigners then the likelihood is quite high at some point that Irish people looking for work (rather than benefits) may have to look further afield than the already overcrowded domestic jobs market.

If we do we will be in competition with UK citizens for slots in places like canada, australia and the usa where they do not currently have a 'free-for all borders' approach anyway so there are no bridges to burn there.

Why would we go all the way to far off lands when you can go to any of the European countries? All Europe's manufacturing is moving east. While the wages aren't worth it at the moment that could change. Then you have the likes of Germany or the Nordic lads that have the smarts to stay ahead of the curve.

TheZohanS

Raymond O'Malley, who is running in the European elections in the East constituency, said the borders should be closed to the 10 accession states as long as Ireland's high unemployment rate persists.

The Libertas candidate claimed over 29,000 PPS numbers were handed out to foreign nationals since January of this year.

"I think we've got to stop it. I think we have to look after our own people," Mr O'Malley said.

Asked if "barriers" should be put up, Mr O'Malley said: "As long as we've this rate of unemployment, yes."

Given the current economic difficulties and the rising unemployment rates, no additional foreign nationals should be given residency, he argued.

Libertas: Latin for "Freedom"



.

_blank_

People calling this man a racist are fúcking idiots. The bloody lot of them.

He isn't being racist.

Ireland should not have opened it's borders so freely, no way.

I won't vote for Libertas one way or another, I think they are nothing short of reactionary, with conflicting policies in different countries.

But in this instance, I think the man makes a very good point.

I also agree with Degsy, that Irish people who are not prepared to work for a living should be fúcked off the dole also.

Before all you recession-hit redundant people jump down my throat, please read my post correctly.

This country NEEDS a proper right thinking political party, not some National Front, not some Stormfront, not some UKIP, but a non left-leaning party to vote for would be nice.

I hate these lefty-liberal ****.

meditraitor

Raymond O'Malley, who is running in the European elections in the East constituency, said the borders should be closed to the 10 accession states as long as Ireland's high unemployment rate persists.

The Libertas candidate claimed over 29,000 PPS numbers were handed out to foreign nationals since January of this year.

"I think we've got to stop it. I think we have to look after our own people," Mr O'Malley said.

Asked if "barriers" should be put up, Mr O'Malley said: "As long as we've this rate of unemployment, yes."

Given the current economic difficulties and the rising unemployment rates, no additional foreign nationals should be given residency, he argued.

29,000 new PPS numbers is a lot, with the amount of job losses it seems a bit crazy. What are these people thinking?

Is there any statistics on the PPS numbers that have become inactive over that period. I.E immigrants going home?

Morlar

ScumLord wrote: »

Then you have the likes of Germany or the Nordic lads that have the smarts to stay ahead of the curve.

Germany already limits access to its labour market.

Capt'n Midnight

So Libertas are like the BNP.

But lets block up the boarders, stop all them Irish people up north coming down here to draw our dole.


What about the speed limit on the Dublin-Belfast road , how are they going to check the documents/contents of cars travelling at 110kmph ??



The Libertas candidate claimed over 29,000 PPS numbers were handed out to foreign nationals since January of this year.do they have a break down ?
How many were to UK nationals, of those how many to those of Irish extraction ?
How many were to other EU nationals ?
How many were to Oz / Nz and other first world countries ?
How many were to others who do jobs that Irish people won't ?
How does the remaining number compare to the numbers of people who leave our fair shores ?

RKDus

It would be funny if Libertas got all immigrants kicked out of the country. I have an image in my head of Declan Ganley standing on a boat and wiping a tear away.

ScumLord

Morlar wrote: »

Germany already limits access to its labour market.

It's still easier to get a job there than any of the countries you mentioned. I just think we should be aware that Europe works both ways, if we lock the door we might end up locking ourselves in as much as we're locking people out.

I'm all for proper restrictions by the way, there's no point letting people in to work when there's high unemployment I just don't want to see an over reaction that ends up bitting us in the ass later on. I'm sick of that happening because the people in charge react to the first scare monger without actually putting any thought into it.

mike65

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

The Libertas candidate claimed over 29,000 PPS numbers were handed out to foreign nationals since January of this year.do they have a break down ?
How many were to UK nationals, of those how many to those of Irish extraction ?

Are you suggesting ethnic profiling?

SWL

RKDus wrote: »

It would be funny if Libertas got all immigrants kicked out of the country. I have an image in my head of Declan Ganley standing on a boat and wiping a tear away.

Nobody suggested kicking them out, a temporary ban on new people coming in particularly those from the EU accession states, where we can't control the numbers unlike a visa scheme.

As already posted Germany has decided to extend its ban, so why don't we do something to protect the economic and social infrastructure for this country.

If racial tension can exist in Sweden they can exit anywhere

dsmythy

RKDus wrote: »

It would be funny if Libertas got all immigrants kicked out of the country. I have an image in my head of Declan Ganley standing on a boat and wiping a tear away.

Such a thing was never suggested. Ganley is an Irish citizen.

snubbleste

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

The Libertas candidate claimed over 29,000 PPS numbers were handed out to foreign nationals since January of this year.do they have a break down ?
How many were to UK nationals, of those how many to those of Irish extraction ?
How many were to other EU nationals ?
How many were to Oz / Nz and other first world countries ?
How many were to others who do jobs that Irish people won't ?
How does the remaining number compare to the numbers of people who leave our fair shores ?

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Topics/PPSN/Pages/ppsn_all_month09.aspx