Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

'Libertas call to close borders sparks race row'

1568101113

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    Is he saying that their should be a ban on accession states or is he looking for an Eu wide ban?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    The right-wingers ultimately want all foreign nationals out,


    Depends on what you define as a right winger. A person can hold right wing views but be in favour of immigration.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭herya


    OPENROAD wrote: »
    Is he saying that their should be a ban on accession states or is he looking for an Eu wide ban?

    That's a good question because UK is the biggest offender I believe.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Lied to the entire country to get poeple to vote how he wanted us to vote? :-p


    LOL and what has Fianna Fail, F.G. and the whole shaggin lot of others being doing the last years!!!
    They have in particular being lying to us since the days of Charles Haughty.

    Get real, they ALL lie!

    ...and no I'm not standing up for Libertas - but lets be real here.
    The BIGGEST bunch of liars so far amid the lot is Fianna Fail - they (and their supporters) without sin, throw the first stone - or else SHUT THE HELL UP!!!!

    I'm sick sick, SICK, SICK of FF supporters especially giving out about others supposed secret agendas, affiliations etc, just to score points and hope they will over the masses again.
    (please stop the accusations unless ye can produce veritable proof - opposition hearsay is just political schite - leave it out or produce the proof of what ye post)

    They can fcuk off. If FF/FG told me the sun would rise again tomorrow - I'd still not trust them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    herya wrote: »
    That's a good question because UK is the biggest offender I believe.

    In that they are one of the states that have an open door policy with the accession states at this time.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 538 ✭✭✭markopantelic


    For the record I voted for the second option, but I think our immigration policy and debate is 4 years too late. Why would many even come to this country now? Even if they do come in they probably leave once they can't find a job.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,178 ✭✭✭Mena


    As I understand it, and as explained by one of their candidates on the radio today, this would effectively end the free movement of people and labour within the EU (for EU nationals). You'd need to apply for and be granted a "blue card" in order to apply for work anywhere else, even the UK, and that would be limited to two years.

    So those saying they agree, perhaps you should think twice.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Mena wrote: »
    As I understand it, and as explained by one of their candidates on the radio today, this would effectively end the free movement of people and labour within the EU (for EU nationals). You'd need to apply for and be granted a "blue card" in order to apply for work anywhere else, even the UK, and that would be limited to two years.

    So those saying they agree, perhaps you should think twice.

    Documentation? Proof? What station? Who said it? At what time was this stated?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    Mena wrote: »
    As I understand it, and as explained by one of their candidates on the radio today, this would effectively end the free movement of people and labour within the EU (for EU nationals). You'd need to apply for and be granted a "blue card" in order to apply for work anywhere else, even the UK, and that would be limited to two years.

    So those saying they agree, perhaps you should think twice.


    Have to say that surprises me. They have sored a massive OG imo.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,178 ✭✭✭Mena


    Biggins wrote: »
    Documentation?
    My ears
    Biggins wrote: »
    Proof?
    Probably podcasted on today FM
    Biggins wrote: »
    What station?
    Today FM with that Matt Cooper bloke.
    Biggins wrote: »
    Who said it?
    Didn't catch her name
    Biggins wrote: »
    At what time was this stated?

    Uhm, roughly 17:15 ish, but I can't be exact, I was negotiating traffic on the M7.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,178 ✭✭✭Mena


    Ok, http://www.todayfm.com/Shows/Weekdays/Matt-Cooper/listen.aspx

    Listen to the 15/5/09 5pm hour. Starts at roughly 04:20 into the hour.

    And my last word: Lol at those of you supporting this joke of a party.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,997 ✭✭✭p1akuw47h5r3it


    They should limit the numbers allowd but not stop it completely


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,698 ✭✭✭✭BlitzKrieg


    Today FM with that Matt Cooper bloke.


    http://www.todayfm.com/Shows/Weekdays/Matt-Cooper/listen.aspx


    that matches up with your timescale.

    I cant get it working on my end, but if you can find it there that would be great cheers.


    EDIT: damn


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    DanDan6592 wrote: »
    They should limit the numbers allowd but not stop it completely

    Limit EU immigration?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭procure11


    He's a ****ing idiot.

    I would not totally agree with you that he is an idiot.It is practically possible that some people would miscontrue his statements as been racist but given the current economic crisis it would only be natural for a normal thinking citizen or resident who has vested interests in this country to be apprehensive about the current state of affairs.

    In my opinion I think the problem was the lack of judgement and oversight by the current government in regards to their immigration policies.For instance in 2004,only Ireland and the UK accepted members of the new accension states without any work permits or predetermined criteria to be met (even though in the UK they were required to go through a registration process known as the EU registration certificate system) so essentially it was only Ireland in the whole of the EU that for instance a Polish citizen could travel to and start working the very next day if he had a job arranged for him or her.Honestly ,at the time it seemed beneficial as it improved productivity,enhanced economic growth and increased the disposable income of an average individual,household and firms as a result of the various multiplier effects.

    In retrospect,any responsible government should have considered the negative effects and impact it would have on infrastructure like schools,hospitals and other social ammenities( as they say, nothing goes for nothing) and most importantly they never envisaged the current turmoil( and I am fed up with politicians using this as an excuse because that is why they were elected in the first place and there had been various warning signs both statistically and from professionals since 2006) but the percieved boom era was just too tempting for them to take any precautions.

    The Libertas politician ,no matter how he feels cannot stop any EU citizen from coming to this country and apply for jobs or for those who have worked here to access social welfare as they are constitutionally entitled to those rights( although I have very serious concerns and reservation with the EU constitution that allows a worker to come to another fellow country and claim for child benefits for 4 of his kids that are not physically resident in that country-but that is another topic entirely).

    Any responsible government in this new world economic order has to take proactive and definitive steps to design a robust blueprint to BOTH(being the operation word) encourage direct foreign investments,globalisation etc and also take adequate care of its own nationals.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭procure11


    OPENROAD wrote: »
    Limit EU immigration?


    HOW?? it is virtually impossible


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭herya


    procure11 wrote: »
    ( although I have very serious concerns and reservation with the EU constitution that allows a worker to come to another fellow country and claim for child benefits for 4 of his kids that are not physically resident in that country-but that is another topic entirely)

    Can you really do that? OMG it's silly beyond belief! :eek:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    procure11 wrote: »
    HOW?? it is virtually impossible


    I'm fully aware of that, I was specifically asking the poster in question who posted the point what he thought i.e. to clarify his position


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    I frankly wouldn't trust Libertas as far as I could throw their mail junk.

    They DO however raise some interesting points that Fianna Fail are ignoring or just plain refusing to answer.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 538 ✭✭✭markopantelic


    procure11 wrote: »
    the problem was the lack of judgement and oversight by the current government in regards to their immigration policies.For instance in 2004,only Ireland and the UK accepted members of the new accension states without any work permits or predetermined criteria to be met.

    Sweden as well.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,318 ✭✭✭O'Coonassa


    Puddleduck wrote: »
    Yes, because agreeing with all of the other parties has done us well so far..

    Oh hey so lets go for another one of the same kind of things that have consistently fvcked us over so far. Lets have another party funded by the oligarchs. Good idea :confused:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    Biggins wrote: »
    I frankly wouldn't trust Libertas as far as I could throw their mail junk.

    They DO however raise some interesting points that Fianna Fail are ignoring or just plain refusing to answer.


    I would agree that they do indeed raise some interesting points, however they need to clarify what was said regading the call to close borders.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    OPENROAD wrote: »
    I would agree that they do indeed raise some interesting points, however they need to clarify what was said regading the call to close borders.

    I agree.
    Clear - REAL clear clarification is needed. Not radio/TV/internet hearsay!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,178 ✭✭✭Mena


    Biggins wrote: »
    I agree.
    Clear - REAL clear clarification is needed. Not radio/TV/internet hearsay!

    How exactly is it hearsay when, if you bothered to actually listen to the clip I highlighted, you'd hear it straight from the horses mouth?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    Mena wrote: »
    How exactly is it hearsay when, if you bothered to actually listen to the clip I highlighted, you'd hear it straight from the horses mouth?


    Is it party policy for starters, i.e. not just an individual getting carried away on the radio.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Mena wrote: »
    How exactly is it hearsay when, if you bothered to actually listen to the clip I highlighted, you'd hear it straight from the horses mouth?

    Didn't listen to the clip firstly.
    Secondly, its a possible wanna-be politician talking. They say anything they like to try and win votes.

    Till I see and/or read formulated policy documents and/or legal issued proposals to be put forwards to the public/Dail/members/etc, anything they rant about is basically just hearsay and todays newspaper news till they can grab another headline with another different soundbite.
    (...and I'm not just talking about Libertas - they all do this)

    Not having a go at your goodself. I just don't trust ANY of these sods now or the parties/org's currently bitching at each other like spoilt children.

    Note: It's nothing new for a major party/fringe organisation to espouse something (that they can change/deny at the drop of a hat) that they might think grab a few new suckers ...sorry... supporters!
    We don't have to look too far to see that happening.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,178 ✭✭✭Mena


    OPENROAD wrote: »
    Is it party policy for starters, i.e. not just an individual getting carried away on the radio.

    Well as I recall, she said it's their policy, though I am not listening to her repugnant drivel again.
    Biggins wrote: »
    Didn't listen to the clip firstly.
    Secondly, its a possible wanna-be politician talking. They say anything they like to try and win votes.

    Till I see and/or read formulated policy documents and/or legal issued proposals to be put forwards to the public/Dail/members/etc, anything they rant about is basically just hearsay and todays newspaper news till they can grab another headline with another different soundbite.
    (...and I'm not just talking about Libertas - they all do this)

    Not having a go at your goodself. I just don't trust ANY of these sods now or the parties/org's currently bitching at each other like spoilt children.

    I agree, but she sat their and outlined their "policy" and defended it against some FF guy. It's out in the public now, stated as policy...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    Mena wrote: »
    Well as I recall, she said it's their policy, though I am not listening to her repugnant drivel again.


    From the bit I have heard/seen of the party, this is not something I have not heard/read before as policy. Are they looking to change EU Law regarding the free movement of labour? As I said in an earlier post I'm slightly confused by the original statement posted in the op. Are they referring to EU Citizens , 10 accession states or non EU citizens. He seems to refer to the 1o states then he says we should look after Irish citizens first which then suggests it is not limited to the ten states i.e. someone from the UK can't come in. So does that mean a company like M&S can't send someone from its UK branch here to work.or they have to start apllying for permits.They need to clearly come out and state what the policy is.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭procure11


    Sweden as well.

    My apologies...but Markopantelic if you would like to know the honest truth,most immigrants would be very very reluctant to go to sweden or any other EU country for that matter except Ireland and the UK, the reason is simple,if you do not speak swedish in sweden(and this applies to most countries in the EU) you have very little chance of getting employed as this is a very fundamental pre-requiste to access to the job market,but the reverse was the case in Ireland,when most of them arrived in 2004,a lot could not utter a word in English and yet were succesful in getting employed in building industries and sites ( and even in frontline duties like checkout assistants - and I read a lot of complaints on boards.ie that they could not comprehend them) .

    Most EU countries use this as a weapon to discourage immigrants and it works ,so essentially most eastern europeans would consider working in Ireland before enquiring where Sweden is on the map of Europe.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,178 ✭✭✭Mena


    OPENROAD wrote: »
    From the bit I have heard/seen of the party, this is not something I have not heard/read before as policy. Are they looking to change EU Law regarding the free movement of labour? As I said in an earlier post I'm slightly confused by the original statement posted in the op. Are they referring to EU Citizens or non EU citizens.

    I've never head this from them either, hence my slight surprise. The discussion I linked was based around EU Citizens, non EU were only slightly touched upon.

    As I said, no more free movement, you need to apply for and be granted a blue card, which would not be a certainty, and then and only then could you go live and work in the UK, France, Spain, Northern Ireland (yes, Northern Ireland) and then only for a period of two years.

    It's laughable. At the same time, you would only be eligible for welfare or whatever from your own member state, so a Pole in Ireland would get Polish welfare from the Polish government... Or, and I like this one, an Irish Citizen in Portugal would get the Irish dole... you could live like a king for two years :P

    As for the statement in the OP, I can't answer that.


Advertisement
Advertisement