'Libertas call to close borders sparks race row'

seamus wrote: »

Nonsense, complete and utter nonsense. There is little or nothing to suggest that racial differences play any part in societal inequality. Money is what causes societal inequality, plain and simple. Migrants tend to have less money than native people, regardless of their race or creed. That's why they migrated.

How is it nonsense? Look at Iceland and Japan and compare to US, UK and Latin America.

herya wrote: »

Iceland yeah, great example.
Japan had their big bubble too. Can't blame it on migrants though.

I was refering to inequality not the economy. The migrants didn't help the situation in Ireland though as they mainly worked in construction making the bubble bigger.

As a foreigner who has lived and worked in Ireland for 7 years, I agree that there should be tighter restrictions on people coming to Ireland with the sole intention of claiming benefits.

I do however think it's a bit of a cop-out to use foreigners as a scapegoat for all the problems that this economy is currently facing.

I was offered redundancy or a relocation to London recently. You'll all be glad to know that after living here, paying taxes and never once making use of public finances I'll be moving to the UK next month

Spongers should be cut-off regardless of race or nationality. Unfortunately not everone claiming the dole is prepared to work if a job is on offer.

Slán!

Helix wrote: »

thats for eu nationals tho isnt it?

there are plenty of non eu nationals around my neck of the woods who appear to be on freebies from the minute they set foot in the country

That's for everyone who doesn't have asylum status afaik.

O'Coonassa wrote: »

Because it's far cheaper to let poor third world countries spend a solid fortune training doctors and nurses and then rob them off them, than it is to train our own. Simple as really.

and the fact you need around 500 points to do medicine

Helix wrote: »

they must be handing out asylum like lolipops so

They actually deny the vast majority of asylum seekers refugee status. Many still find ways to stick around though it would seem.

Toon--soldier wrote: »

and the fact you need around 500 points to do medicine

The other issue is the fact that a lot of foreigners are charged a small fortune to study in the medical (and other) professions here. A lot of the education institutions in Ireland get a large part of their funding from foreign students.

Just don't ask me for a link :pac:

Acacia wrote: »

Now you're playing the race card.

The only people causing 'ethnic conflict' are people spouting out clap-trap about the dangers of 'racially-mixed societies'.

Race doesn't cause conflict (except by people making it into an issue when it really shouldn't be a big deal)- money does, as another poster pointed out.

It's like say, a black man here is racially abused and someone says , "Well, if you weren't here in a predominantly white country, you wouldn't be subject to racism!" It's just passing the buck.

Immigrants didn't cause the recession, so let's not blame them for this mess.

Rather than "racially-mixed" how's about ethnically mixed? If only all the ethnic conflicts in the world were about money then we'd know how to solve them. Said ethnic conflict will only be a threat if immigrants and therefore their progeny aren't integrated into Irish society.

Allowing loose access to low or no skilled immigrants is not the way to go about this. Going back way to the top of the thread that is what i suspect the guy was saying on the radio minus the ethnic conflict scenario. Even with that scenario that's not playing cards it's debate.

Most recent ethnic hostilities in the world...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8026215.stm

Money?

Immigrants didn't case the recession, on that we agree.

Acacia wrote: »

Now you're playing the race card.

The only people causing 'ethnic conflict' are people spouting out clap-trap about the dangers of 'racially-mixed societies'.

Race doesn't cause conflict (except by people making it into an issue when it really shouldn't be a big deal)- money does, as another poster pointed out.

It's like say, a black man here is racially abused and someone says , "Well, if you weren't here in a predominantly white country, you wouldn't be subject to racism!" It's just passing the buck.

Immigrants didn't cause the recession, so let's not blame them for this mess.

Race can cause conflict as does ethnic or religious differences between peoples. People are suspicious of the unfamiliar. This is not "playing the race card", it is a statement of fact. People are attacked in ethnic minority ghettoes too for being in the wrong place.

I never blamed immigrants for anything but it is madness importing vast numbers of people into your country without regard to the consequences. Its the government that is to blame.

Deleted User wrote: »

who the fuk even asked for a party like libertas..?

seriously like, declan ganley can fuk off.. he's riding this wave of anti-liosban sentiment and using his money to create a political party that the stupid people can vote for.

What did Deco ever do to you?

dsmythy wrote: »

Rather than "racially-mixed" how's about ethnically mixed? If only all the ethnic conflicts in the world were about money then we'd know how to solve them. Said ethnic conflict will only be a threat if immigrants and therefore their progeny aren't integrated into Irish society.

But isn't this fear that immigrants won't mix in just passing the buck, in terms of blame or responsibility? We don't know for sure if immigrants will integrate or not ( and certainly with the amount of foreign children on GAA teams for example, there areplenty of immigrants willing to integrate.) Closing the borders in case they don't mix or ethnic conflict arises is plain silly, imo.

I know what you're saying, but I meant that money causes more conflict than race/ethnicity in an Irish context.

That is, there shouldn't be any problems with different ethnicities mixing / living together in Ireland, it's just now that times are tough, people are using immigrants as a scapegoat ( and some people will bring their race / ethnicity into the argument)- even this thread is more about competition for resources (i.e. money) rather than race.

This is the problem with making such statements as the Libertas guy did. Plenty of people may agree with him who have no racist/xenophobic intentions, which I understand, but unfortunately people also tend to latch onto this rhetoric and use it to further their arguments about the dangers of racial mixing, or some such.

Freemind wrote: »

Race can cause conflict as does ethnic or religious differences between peoples. People are suspicious of the unfamiliar.

Of course, but we can't let the fact that there might be racial/ethnic tensions ( on the part of ignorant people i.e. racists/xenophobes) influence immigration policy. If people have a problem with those of a different race or religion, then that is their problem- they are the ones causing the 'conflict'- not the immigrants themselves, so why should they ( immigrants) be restricted from working where they want?

And I know that not all immigrants are willing to integrate and can be racist too- but closing the borders to all of them based on the actions of a few isn't fair, imo.

Freemind wrote: »

This is not "playing the race card", it is a statement of fact. People are attacked in ethnic minority ghettoes too for being in the wrong place.

But you brought race/ethnicity into the argument- that's what I meant by playing the race card (not implying that you are racist, by the way.)

Of course, all kinds of people can be racist ( like people getting attacked in ghettoes)- but I've not seen any ghettoes of immigrants forming in Ireland.

Freemind wrote: »

I never blamed immigrants for anything but it is madness importing vast numbers of people into your country without regard to the consequences. Its the government that is to blame.

My last sentence wasn't directed at you specifically ( about immigrants not being to blame).

I do agree about the government being to blame.

Typical hypocritical garbage by all parties tbh

The right-wingers ultimately want all foreign nationals out, but ignore the multitude of Irish people that are living and working abroad. why..? because, it's unfair to support the same system that brought Ireland to prosperity in the first place..? lmao

The lefties want the doors to remain open but at the same time want to see the economy protected.. why..? because as open as they are to new ideas, they know deep down that they rely on the right-wing majority to make sure it happens.

It's about time people stopped labeling themselves ala USA Politics and began seeing what is wrong with this world through the eyes of individuals and humans