'Libertas call to close borders sparks race row'

dsmythy · 15-05-2009 04:25PM

markopantelic wrote: »

So what about all the thousands of British that live here? They greatly outweight almost all minorities?

It can't be relative, one rule must apply to all.

He did say close the borders (probably limit the number coming through the borders). He doesn't say anything about deportations.

dsmythy · 15-05-2009 04:28PM

TheBlock wrote: »

This post is complete crap. (You are allowed do that aren't attack the post).

I do not take pity on Anto, I think you'll find he'll be one of the guys voting with you on this boards poll (important to highlight that this is a borads poll and one in after hours at that).

Irish Jobs for Irish People you said earlier...I seem to remember a british political party with a similar slogan. British Jobs for British People.

Labour?

renraw · 15-05-2009 04:35PM

stakey wrote: »

Ah come on! The reason you're paying extra levies and taxes is because the government decided it was making a ****load of cash off of a bloated property market and decided to remove all sane regulation of that sector.

Have you been living under a rock?

No, they came here, they worked here, they paid their taxes... they didn't **** you over, Fianna Fail did!

Unfortunately, The number of foreign nationals applying for unemployment benefit has increased by almost 80 per cent over the past year. What is going to pay for that? and the emergency budget wasn't called to deal with Banks debts but with the amount of people joining the live register.
The increase has been witnessed by members of EU countries who live in ireland, where numbers have jumped by some 144 per cent since September of last year. Whats going to pay for that?

The banks issues are separate in the fact and the Governments kitty of €26 billion is the major assurance for that and does not involve any further debt on the countrys part. Social welfare does! And now, as witnessed by queues for londis, burger king, etc... Irish people want to work now and its not a case of kids going to Oz and spending mammy and daddys money. When times get tough, at least now Irish people want to work.

seamus · 15-05-2009 04:39PM

Des wrote: »

Look, I'm not some toothless hick from Roscommon, or some Anto-down-the-dole-office.

Indeed. I was qualifying that my comment was not directed at you. I accept that some decent people will agree with what this guy is saying. But that doesn't change the fact that it's a blatant attempt to woo the lowest common denominator who doesn't know anything about politics past his cigarettes and The Sun.

I do think that this free-border policy had it's part to play.

And what do you base that opinion on? (My apologies if you've already posted your answer to that question).

This PC Do-Gooder brigade sicken me.

Moi aussi. But that doesn't mean that every cause they fight is wrong, they often just fight it for the wrong reason.

herya · 15-05-2009 04:39PM

renraw wrote: »

And now, as witnessed by queues for londis, burger king, etc... Irish people want to work now and its not a case of kids going to Oz and spending mammy and daddys money.

There were 5-10% Irish candidates in this famous Londis queue, according to the hiring manager.

herya · 15-05-2009 04:41PM

renraw wrote: »

Unfortunately, The number of foreign nationals applying for unemployment benefit has increased by almost 80 per cent over the past year. What is going to pay for that?

Their previously paid taxes. If they haven't contributed enough, they won't get anything, same as everybody else.

I'd be more concerned about money handed over to people who have never worked in their lives. They are not foreigners though (foreigners do not qualify for this).

_blank_ · 15-05-2009 04:51PM

I'm bowing out of this thread, being accused of all sorts all over the place

seamus wrote: »

Moi aussi.

Stop using them damn foreign words please.

Freemind · 15-05-2009 04:53PM

seamus wrote: »

Actually I was referring to the Anto-down-the-dole-queue type who spends his life running scams, bitching about "dem bleedin scumbag gards", and claiming that he can't get a job because of "all dem bleedin nig-nogs", while he scratches his arse all day, drinks his life away and smokes cigarettes his mate robbed from a truck on the continent. You think he's a conservative/rightist?

Typical liberal. Its okay to stereotype the Irish working class (or underclass) but when this is applied to Nigerians or Romany Gypsies (or even our own Irish travellers you shout "racist".

markopantelic · 15-05-2009 04:55PM

Foryone who says immigrants played part in our downturn, then why is Sweden(which along with the us and the United Kingdom permitted migration from accession countries) doing better than most in this downturn? Yeah because they actually have an intelligent population who vote for proper intelligent people at the top.

Its so easy to blame the immigrants for all the problems in the world, and the thing is it won't fix or improve this country in anything.

Tar.Aldarion · 15-05-2009 04:56PM

I don't see how he is stereotyping. He is complaining about people that do that, not saying all people of a class do that.

ShooterSF · 15-05-2009 04:59PM

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

I don't see how he is stereotyping. He is complaining about people that do that, not saying all people of a class do that.

The clue is in bold.

seamus wrote: »

Actually I was referring to the Anto-down-the-dole-queue type who spends his life running scams, bitching about "dem bleedin scumbag gards", and claiming that he can't get a job because of "all dem bleedin nig-nogs", while he scratches his arse all day, drinks his life away and smokes cigarettes his mate robbed from a truck on the continent. You think he's a conservative/rightist?

herya · 15-05-2009 05:00PM

SWL wrote: »

Our property bubble was slowly meeting demand until we decided to bring in 80k new people every year, they needed a place to live so guess what happened then yes we built speculative housing to meet the demand creating a monster which future generation will pay heavily for, we should have not allowed unrestrictive access.

This is the highlight of the thread for me

Irish property bubble was caused by the immigrants who demanded new housing is built especially for them and rented to them at extortionate rates.

Well done SWL!!

/sarcasm

seamus · 15-05-2009 05:01PM

Freemind wrote: »

Typical liberal. Its okay to stereotype the Irish working class (or underclass) but when this is applied to Nigerians or Romany Gypsies (or even our own Irish travellers you shout "racist".

Did you see me use the words, "Racist" or "working class" anywhere in my post?

Is that some sort of guilty conscience knee-jerk reaction you have there?

The clue is in bold.

Right. So I'm saying that everyone called Anthony who is on the dole is an idiot? The description is in the entire post. Read more than one line before reacting.

herya · 15-05-2009 05:02PM

ShooterSF wrote: »

The clue is in bold.

There's a huge difference between a type and a whole social class. I don't think he crossed the line. This type exists, as do many better ones nobody here questions.

ShooterSF · 15-05-2009 05:07PM

seamus wrote: »

Right. So I'm saying that everyone called Anthony who is on the dole is an idiot? The description is in the entire post. Read more than one line before reacting.

Well maybe they are only complaining about the lazy smelly "nig-nog" sponging off our country type (Surely what I did there is the same as what you did.) and not all coloured people.

eddie.fandango · 15-05-2009 05:11PM

Wow, I never knew Libertas had a party in Britain too :P

http://bnp.org.uk/

seamus · 15-05-2009 05:13PM

ShooterSF wrote: »

Well maybe they are only complaining about the lazy smelly "nig-nog" sponging off our country type (Surely what I did there is the same as what you did.) and not all coloured people.

Not really though. Libertas are effectively saying, "Immigration. Bad. Grr.". Spongers and scumbags exist in every society. That some scumbags manage to immigrate is a worldwide problem. We should be aiming at stopping all of the spongers, not stopping an input of valuable skills and chopping off our nose to spite our face.

The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of immigrants are contributing to the economy - even those who only hopped off the boat last week.

mike65 · 15-05-2009 05:17PM

Theres an Libertas rep on The Last Word making a bit of tit of herself right now, she has no clue when pressed on detail.

ShooterSF · 15-05-2009 05:17PM

seamus wrote: »

Not really though. Libertas are effectively saying, "Immigration. Bad. Grr.". Spongers and scumbags exist in every society. That some scumbags manage to immigrate is a worldwide problem. We should be aiming at stopping all of the spongers, not stopping an input of valuable skills and chopping off our nose to spite our face.

The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of immigrants are contributing to the economy - even those who only hopped off the boat last week.

I agree to the part in bold and that's why I'm against open borders. Allow in those that are useful to our economy and to a level we need and keep the scumbags out, we've got our own.
The real shame is you can't discuss these issues without extremist noise interfering.

dsmythy · 15-05-2009 05:19PM

seamus wrote: »

Not really though. Libertas are effectively saying, "Immigration. Bad. Grr.". Spongers and scumbags exist in every society. That some scumbags manage to immigrate is a worldwide problem. We should be aiming at stopping all of the spongers, not stopping an input of valuable skills and chopping off our nose to spite our face.

The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of immigrants are contributing to the economy - even those who only hopped off the boat last week.

I think anyone saying we should be more restrictive is pretty much saying what you've said there except perhaps adding immigrants who havn't come to sponge but are making no contribution anyway through no fault of their own.

Sizzler · 15-05-2009 05:19PM

mike65 wrote: »

Theres an Libertas rep on The Last Word making a bit of tit of herself right now, she has no clue when pressed on detail.

Shes just said theres no direct flight from Lagos to Dublin, she was bang on about that

mike65 · 15-05-2009 05:20PM

True but didn't even consider the PPS-babys issue.

irishgrover · 15-05-2009 05:21PM

irishgrover wrote: »

Again, my issue, .... is that it frustrates me immencely that we seem incapable of genuine debate without assigning extreme polarization to either side of the debate..

Well I'm glad to see that my initial fears were unfounded.............

I'm off to enjoy the racially diverse weekend...

PS: If it's considered bad manners to quote yourself please accept my apologies

seamus · 15-05-2009 05:22PM

ShooterSF wrote: »

Allow in those that are useful to our economy and to a level we need and keep the scumbags out, we've got our own.

OK, we're going a little off topic here, but I'm curious as to how you think we should do this? Surely if it was possible to allow immigration and filter out the dirt, everyone would be doing that? Closing the borders until we figure it out, is again cutting our nose off to spite our face, so you either have to accept that immigration is necessary and you'll be stuck with some additional scumbags, or you decide that immigration is unnecessary and close the borders.

Which illustrates the whole complexity of the issue. Libertas disregard the complexities of the issue and instead resort to populist rhetoric which has absolutely no relevance to the facts of how the real world works.

herya · 15-05-2009 05:28PM

seamus wrote: »

Which illustrates the whole complexity of the issue. Libertas disregard the complexities of the issue and instead resort to populist rhetoric which has absolutely no relevance to the facts of how the real world works.

I agree - they may have a point to a certain small degree but:
- immigration is not the root of the problem (recession)
- it's not even the biggest problem
- there is no simple solution
- there are no long-term benefits (economic immigration regulates itself, if you block it artificially now it will cause problems when the recession is over).

They bring it up now as frenzy fodder because what they say is simple (dumb) enough for everysinglebody to have an opinion.

Freemind · 15-05-2009 05:34PM

seamus wrote: »

Not really though. Libertas are effectively saying, "Immigration. Bad. Grr.". Spongers and scumbags exist in every society. That some scumbags manage to immigrate is a worldwide problem. We should be aiming at stopping all of the spongers, not stopping an input of valuable skills and chopping off our nose to spite our face.

The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of immigrants are contributing to the economy - even those who only hopped off the boat last week.

Well immigration isn't always good as you've just admiited in your post. All the establishment parties are ramming down our throats constantly that immigration is good. Why shouldn't people have the option of having the choice to vote for a party that is sceptical on the benefits on immigration.

Haven't we enough people with valuable skills or capable of learning valuable skills in our country without the need to import people. With mass immigration to our country we "could be cutting off our nose to spite our face" with future ethnic conflict and an increasingly unequal society. Racially mixed societies tend to be unequal.

seamus · 15-05-2009 05:41PM

Freemind wrote: »

Well immigration isn't always good as you've just admiited in your post. All the establishment parties are ramming down our throats constantly that immigration is good. Why shouldn't people have the option of having the choice to vote for a party that is sceptical on the benefits on immigration.

Immigration has its bad points, of course it does. Just like emigration has its good points. I fail to see how it having a downside somehow justifies completely removing it.

Haven't we enough people with valuable skills or capable of learning valuable skills in our country without the need to import people.

We do? How do you know this?

With mass immigration to our country we "could be cutting off our nose to spite our face" with future ethnic conflict and an increasingly unequal society. Racially mixed societies tend to be unequal.

Nonsense, complete and utter nonsense. There is little or nothing to suggest that racial differences play any part in societal inequality. Money is what causes societal inequality, plain and simple. Migrants tend to have less money than native people, regardless of their race or creed. That's why they migrated.

Caoimhín · 15-05-2009 05:44PM

ooops, wrong place.

magick · 15-05-2009 05:45PM

have we gotten so retarded that anytime anyone speaking of Immigration they are labeled as racist

dsmythy · 15-05-2009 05:46PM

seamus wrote: »

Nonsense, complete and utter nonsense. There is little or nothing to suggest that racial differences play any part in societal inequality. Money is what causes societal inequality, plain and simple. Migrants tend to have less money than native people, regardless of their race or creed. That's why they migrated.

Perhaps prolonged inequality for immigrants and their descendants is caused by sleepwalking into a situation where immigrants end up living in certain areas grossly disproportionately to other areas. This extending into the amount of low-skilled immigration entering the country.

'Libertas call to close borders sparks race row'

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