Travelling brawlers of Balbriggan

Dudess · 07-05-2009 9:27pm

brianthebard wrote: »

Is bullsh.it. Child mortality alcoholism and illiteracy are still disproportionally part of traveller's lives.

And is that not something for which travellers themselves are responsible? Does living in a caravan with your 15 other family members not cause poor hygiene?

Confab wrote: »

And the settled community are so well behaved.

Get a grip people.

The settled community doesn't have the same level of problems as those inherent within traveller society.

Come on, guys - wake up. You know me - I'm no bigot - but it's just disingenuous and sticking your heads in the sand and being needlessly permissive to suggest there aren't disproportionate levels of violence and crime among travellers. It's a reality, it's not me being bigoted.
I worked in housing - I have met some outstanding people who were travellers. Of course there are decent members of that society, but many of their fellow travellers are doing them terrible damage.
Roundy will remember this: a few years ago, the town of Youghal literally shut down so that a traveller wedding reception couldn't be held there - every pub, hotel, restaurant closed. Youghal is a seaside town, this was early summer - you think that much trade would be sacrificed just to discriminate against a group of people? These lengths were obviously gone to for a damn good reason - fear of violence and vandalism.
I worked in radio - I had to set up several features regarding travellers facing discrimination. Every time I spoke to a publican, (s)he would say the same thing: "I don't want to be discriminating against people but we're just terrified of the bad element - even though we know not all of them will cause trouble".

The_Minister wrote: »

I can't believe Degsy isn't with us to see this thread.

Degsy... had to go away for a while...

deco05ie · 07-05-2009 9:28pm

Davei141 wrote: »

Know many travellers brianthebard? Live close to any halting sites? Or are you just another in a long line who either don't know any and as such, tell us all how lovely they are and how we shouldn't discriminate about travellers. It's easy having an opinion of tolerance when you don't have to tolerate jack ****. I know about 50 travellers and out of those 50 i would call 3 of them decent people. The rest? They would threaten you with a knife if they woke up on the wrong side of the bed. Keep fighting the good fight though. Nobody will ever change my opinion of travellers, ive came across too many.

I don't think brianthebard was saying travellers were perfect or anything he was just asking that people think about why they act the way they do, instead of just throwing insults at them.

"Don't criticize them; they are just what we
would be under similar circumstances." - Abraham Lincoln

pebbles21 · 07-05-2009 9:32pm

Lilyblue wrote: »

Where is singing bernie walsh padraig nally when you need herhim?

Fixed that for you!

Sofiztikated · 07-05-2009 10:01pm

Travellers would never fight. This is obviously staged by some horrible people, discriminating against those beautiful travelling people.
Not really.
Travellers = trouble.
We had some in work at christmas.
To my utmost suprise, they proceeded to get pissed, fight, and cause roughly ?10k of damage. I have the receipts from the work done to repair the damage. Will we welcome them back with open arms? Will we fook.
There was one woman though, i swear she was about 11 months pregnant, and lashing back pints.

Coriolanus · 08-05-2009 7:18am

Sofiztikated wrote: »

There was one woman though, i swear she was about 11 months pregnant, and lashing back pints.

She might have been trying to induce labour. :pac:

Squiggle wrote: »

I fail to see why the fact that they were travellers has anything to do with it. Brawling thugs, regardless of ethnicity, should be dealt with by batons and canine units and if necessary baton rounds and water cannon. Similarly I don't see why the fact that Frog Ward was a traveller should have been an issue in the Nally case.

While I get where you're coming from, this really only manages to hold true when different groups don't have such a disproportionate level of violence and anti-social behaviour. It's only natural that it begins to become an issue, sadly.

Scawgeen · 08-05-2009 10:08am

The children of a mixed traveller/settled marriage still consider themselves Travellers. The grandchildren of third generation settled travellers still consider themselves Travellers. The Traveller identity is something we in the settled community just don't get.

Professey Chin · 08-05-2009 10:26am

Scawgeen wrote: »

The children of a mixed traveller/settled marriage still consider themselves Travellers. The grandchildren of third generation settled travellers still consider themselves Travellers. The Traveller identity is something we in the settled community just don't get.

Good cause I dont want it gettin me :eek:

Zulu · 08-05-2009 10:30am

Or is it something their community doesn't get: integration?

WIZE · 08-05-2009 11:07am

I used to work in a hotel years ago and I was in reception.
A father and daughter walked in ( She was about 17 ) and asked if our ballroom was free in two weeks for a wedding( queue Alarm bells )
I asked the date and then made the excuse that the room was being renovated was unable to be used .
Well on the day we were prepared with and had the keys in the door of the Bar which could be accessed from the street.
As i walked up the main street that morning I found that all the bars had bouncers on the door . ( This was at 11am )
The whole street was shut down. Anyways I found out that a chinese Restraunt at the top of the main street had taken a booking for 200 people at 3pm . So I went up at around 7pm to check it out and the place was full of Travellers kicking the Sh!t out of each other with the Garda standing there doing what they normally do ( nothing )
I asked a Garda who I knew what the plan was and he said
Quote : ''We will wait till its over then arrest who's left on the ground''
Anyways instead of the Garda arresting the trouble makers they let them go on a rampage down the main street smashing windows of pubs which did not let them in .
I later found out that they caused over €40,000 worth of damage to the restraunt and it was a person who worked there for only one week who took the reservation .

Hail 2 Da Chimp · 08-05-2009 11:08am

Dudess wrote: »

I'm no bigot - but

That sounds awfully like something a bigot would say!

aDeener · 08-05-2009 11:14am

Scawgeen wrote: »

The children of a mixed traveller/settled marriage still consider themselves Travellers. The grandchildren of third generation settled travellers still consider themselves Travellers. The Traveller identity is something we in the settled community just don't get.

what i would like to know is who would marry into that? brawling, boozing, thieving, general thuggery isnt exactly the kind of life any sane thinking person would want to commit to......

it is one of my many lifes wishes to meet these great "sound" traveller people. are they some kind of mythological creature say like the leprechaun where only a select few imbeciles claim to have met them?

sub-x · 08-05-2009 11:18am

aDeener wrote: »

what i would like to know is who would marry into that? brawling, boozing, thieving, general thuggery isnt exactly the kind of life any sane thinking person would want to commit to......

Ah come on now,you have to admit they know how to throw a smashing party,always goes off with a bang.

DonJose · 08-05-2009 11:20am

Dudess wrote: »

Does living in a caravan with your 15 other family members not cause poor hygiene?

Don't know about the hygiene but I heard the orgies are wild

WIZE · 08-05-2009 11:21am

They marry cousins and second cousins and into each others Traveller families which have been feuding for years . ( Thats when the Sh1t hits the fan )

RaverRo808 · 08-05-2009 11:25am

Im sick to death hearing do gooder bleeding hearts defending these people,whose 'culture' seems to resolve around being a complete nuisance to honest settled people(yeah because thats how I refer to myself on a regular basis),Ive known afew travellers from my travels,and none of them displayed to me any sort of unique culture,they are suppose to have their own language,cant and gammon,but none I have met can speak a word of it,some hadnt a clue what I was talking about,the only uniquie thing about travellers I find,is that they are giving spacious brand new houses by the state while 'settled' people have to wait years for dog boxes,travellers most the time dont live in these house,they fill them full of junk,board em up and travel around in caravans,living in halting site,purposely living like animals,having no ammenties for a toilet or to wash themselves,sh*itting all over the place,when they leave,the aftermath,is a toxic dump that costs the local council thousands to clean up,the bills footed by you and me through our tax we pay from honest work,the only 'culture' travellers have is to marry their cousins creating children prone to genetic dieases which could explain their tendency to fight and cause havoc,its time we stood up and realise what these people reallly are,a blight on normal society,who should be forced to obey the laws of the land and intergrate into normal society

Coriolanus · 08-05-2009 11:29am

BVB wrote: »

So I went up at around 7pm to check it out and the place was full of Travellers kicking the Sh!t out of each other with the Garda standing there doing what they normally do ( nothing )
I asked a Garda who I knew what the plan was and he said
Quote : ''We will wait till its over then arrest who's left on the ground''.

That raises a good corollary issue. If that kind of thing just erupted sans Traveller involvement it'd be stamped on a hell of a lot harder than it seemed to be in the two above videos.
Not enough guards around, start equipping every barracks with mass-suppression tools. Stunguns, teargas, whatever is needed.

brianthebard · 08-05-2009 11:35am

Dudess wrote: »

And is that not something for which travellers themselves are responsible? Does living in a caravan with your 15 other family members not cause poor hygiene?

The settled community doesn't have the same level of problems as those inherent within traveller society.

Come on, guys - wake up. You know me - I'm no bigot - but it's just disingenuous and sticking your heads in the sand and being needlessly permissive to suggest there aren't disproportionate levels of violence and crime among travellers. It's a reality, it's not me being bigoted.
I worked in housing - I have met some outstanding people who were travellers. Of course there are decent members of that society, but many of their fellow travellers are doing them terrible damage.
Roundy will remember this: a few years ago, the town of Youghal literally shut down so that a traveller wedding reception couldn't be held there - every pub, hotel, restaurant closed. Youghal is a seaside town, this was early summer - you think that much trade would be sacrificed just to discriminate against a group of people? These lengths were obviously gone to for a damn good reason - fear of violence and vandalism.
I worked in radio - I had to set up several features regarding travellers facing discrimination. Every time I spoke to a publican, (s)he would say the same thing: "I don't want to be discriminating against people but we're just terrified of the bad element - even though we know not all of them will cause trouble".

Degsy... had to go away for a while...

I suppose you are going to say that travellers have lots of money and are only living like that for the lolz too?

So you're not a bigot but huh? You aren't bigoted, but you give no consideration for the reasons there might be disproportionate amounts of violence amongst the travellers community? Have you noticed similiar levels of violence also occur in settled communities that face the same problems of extreme poverty, isolation, lack of education and job opportunities, and a general public who think castration is a real solution to this 'problem'?
Get over yourself, I never for a second suggested there wasn't violence involved, just that Travellers have been discriminated against for 200 odd years. If you think that doesn't result in social dysfunction then you're the one with your head in the sand.

Scawgeen · 08-05-2009 11:51am

aDeener wrote: »

what i would like to know is who would marry into that? brawling, boozing, thieving, general thuggery isnt exactly the kind of life any sane thinking person would want to commit to......

it is one of my many lifes wishes to meet these great "sound" traveller people. are they some kind of mythological creature say like the leprechaun where only a select few imbeciles claim to have met them?

You know what they say, love conquers all. Most of the people I know who married into the travelling community did so because they fell in love with the person. Off hand I can think of about 12 of such marriages and they're all happy unions.

Dudess · 08-05-2009 11:59am

brianthebard wrote: »

I suppose you are going to say that travellers have lots of money and are only living like that for the lolz too?

Eh... no? That's what ultra right wing ignorami say - am I an ultra right wing ignoramus?

So you're not a bigot but huh?

Actually no, I'm not. And you know well I'm not.

You aren't bigoted, but you give no consideration for the reasons there might be disproportionate amounts of violence amongst the travellers community?

Absolutely. And then... there comes a point when you stop moaning about what was done to you and you take responsibility for yourself.

Have you noticed similiar levels of violence also occur in settled communities that face the same problems of extreme poverty, isolation, lack of education and job opportunities

Yes. And there are initiatives to help them, just like with the traveller community. Except the thing is... some of them don't want to be helped. Some of them would rather wallow and be victims.

Get over yourself

Pray tell... why? What exactly is so unreasonable about what I'm saying? It may not be super-duper left-wing, but does that make it hateful?

I never for a second suggested there wasn't violence involved

Indeed, but you chose not to acknowledge it either and instead urged people to feel sorry for them, that they've had it tough. There comes a point where people shouldn't have to give a **** about how tough others have had it when they're making life miserable for them...

Oh and I notice you gave a thumbs up to someone who quoted something I said out of context and made the remark "that's like something a bigot would say" (presume they were being ironic, considering they know me as a poster). Nice one Brian. Ignore the way I pretty much always take the openminded, non reactionary stance on any given issue and just focus on this one because it's not leftie enough, in order to imply I'm a bigot. Cheers. :mad:

HarryD · 08-05-2009 12:05pm

deco05ie wrote: »

"Don't criticize them; they are just what we
would be under similar circumstances." - Abraham Lincoln

Great quote.. can be said for alot of movement groups, like hamas

Nelson Muntz · 08-05-2009 12:12pm

brianthebard wrote: »

I suppose you are going to say that travellers have lots of money and are only living like that for the lolz too?

You would be hard pressed to find a Van or caravan that is more than 6 or 7 years old in a traveller camp.

Not bad for a group that are dirt poor.

brianthebard · 08-05-2009 12:13pm

Dudess wrote: »

Eh... no? That's what ultra right wing ignorami say - am I an ultra right wing ignoramus?

Actually no, I'm not. And you know well I'm not.

Absolutely. And then... there comes a point when you stop moaning about what was done to you and you take responsibility for yourself.

Yes. And there are initiatives to help them, just like with the traveller community. Except the thing is... some of them don't want to be helped. Some of them would rather wallow and be victims.

Pray tell... why? What exactly is so unreasonable about what I'm saying? It may not be super-duper left-wing, but does that make it hateful?

Indeed, but you chose not to acknowledge it either and instead urged people to feel sorry for them, that they've had it tough. There comes a point where people shouldn't have to give a **** about how tough others have had it when they're making life miserable for them...

Oh and I notice you gave a thumbs up to someone who quoted something I said out of context and made the remark "that's like something a bigot would say" (presume they were being ironic, considering they know me as a poster). Nice one Brian. Ignore the way I pretty much always take the openminded, non reactionary stance on any given issue and just focus on this one because it's not leftie enough, in order to imply I'm a bigot. Cheers. :mad:

You're welcome.

Yeah sure, its all about whether your position is 'leftie' enough. You want people to take responsibility for themselves, but you don't acknowledge 200 years of institutionalised discrimination. That can't be overthrown in 10 years you know. Your position is reactionary, because you ignore the class systems in place, institutionalised discrimination, and lack of consistency in government treatment of travellers, and say they should just cop on.

Dudess · 08-05-2009 12:15pm

I brought up the "leftie" thing because this is the one thing you and I disagree on, therefore I'm a bigot. How openminded of you.

Dudess · 08-05-2009 12:24pm

On the other hand:

RaverRo808 wrote: »

the only uniquie thing about travellers I find,is that they are giving spacious brand new houses by the state while 'settled' people have to wait years for dog boxes

That is not true.

Davei141 · 08-05-2009 12:29pm

brianthebard wrote: »

I suppose you are going to say that travellers have lots of money and are only living like that for the lolz too?

Are you for real? Ever been in a traveller house? (Yes loads have had houses built for them) They are kitted out nicer than yours or mine will ever be. You would know that if you actually had a clue what you are talking about. Travellers poor? Im sorry but you should just bow out of this.

So you're not a bigot but huh? You aren't bigoted, but you give no consideration for the reasons there might be disproportionate amounts of violence amongst the travellers community?

Eh the disproportionate amount of violence in the traveller community is nothing to do with socio economic concerns. That is how they are raised. Thought how to fight at a young age and they can endure and dish out a hell of a beating.

Have you noticed similiar levels of violence also occur in settled communities that face the same problems of extreme poverty, isolation, lack of education and job opportunities, and a general public who think castration is a real solution to this 'problem'?

Live in any area like the above do you brian? Any real life experiences to add a shred of credibility? I do live in an area like you describe, the scumbags have been born into a life of scum from scum parents. 95% of the dodgy characters i know their parents couldn't give a flying **** about them, their son gets arrested for beating the ****e out of somebody and the parents are calling the guards scum. Sound familiar? The remaining 5% got involved in a bad crowd (who were usually older) and they never decided to break out of it.

At least have a clue before you list off your bull**** of tolerance.

Get over yourself, I never for a second suggested there wasn't violence involved, just that Travellers have been discriminated against for 200 odd years. If you think that doesn't result in social dysfunction then you're the one with your head in the sand.

And they will continue to be discriminated against once they act like thugs. It's funny though, show your tolerant all round wondrous attitude to any travellers (if you ever came across any that is) and count till your fleeced for something or another. Or till you get a dig in the face for "Slagging me muther".

RaverRo808 · 08-05-2009 12:31pm

Dudess wrote: »

On the other hand:

That is not true.

Is it not,well you should take a trip to Dublin,and have a gander at some traveller estates,where newly built houses supplied for travallers are boarded up or used as dumps for their clutter,or sometimes set on fire

Davei141 · 08-05-2009 12:32pm

Dudess wrote: »

On the other hand:

That is not true.

They do get new houses. I live near a bunch of them for years and more are being built. That is no reason why i dislike them though.

Dudess · 08-05-2009 12:37pm

RaverRo808 wrote: »

Is it not,well you should take a trip to Dublin,and have a gander at some traveller estates,where newly built houses supplied for travallers are boarded up or used as dumps for their clutter,or sometimes set on fire

As I already mentioned, I worked in housing in Cork. The notion that travellers get prioritised over settled people and given spacious houses (implying luxury ones) while the rest wait for "dog boxes"... is absolute horse manure. Pretty much all travellers were housed in The Glen, Knocknaheeny, the old Blackpool flats, Mahon and the deprived parts of Mayfield - the least desired areas of Cork. If a four-bedroom house was needed, off to Knocknaheeny they'd be sent.

SteveDon · 08-05-2009 12:40pm

Davei141 wrote: »

They do get new houses. I live near a bunch of them for years and more are being built. That is no reason why i dislike them though.

Yeah there is actually one up in cabinteely aswell, boarded up aswell. So ungrateful.

Im sure there are plenty of poor travellers but ive seen travellers rolling around in 08 bmws and the likes and they still act like a bunch of thugs.

A few years back a caravan turned up on he green on one of my friends housing estates, this was in a relatively nice area near foxrock.

The gards wouldnt move them on and the council were just as lazy about it. The people of the estate rallied round and got 10,000 to give to them in order to move on.

This is how they make their money, con artists.

Davei141 · 08-05-2009 12:41pm

brianthebard wrote: »

You're welcome.

Yeah sure, its all about whether your position is 'leftie' enough. You want people to take responsibility for themselves, but you don't acknowledge 200 years of institutionalised discrimination. That can't be overthrown in 10 years you know. Your position is reactionary, because you ignore the class systems in place, institutionalised discrimination, and lack of consistency in government treatment of travellers, and say they should just cop on.

Personal responsibility. Are they not capable of that? Seriously your a joke. Your opinion has no real life basis at all. You don't have a clue what your talking about. Travellers are in the position they are in due to parents never sending their kids to school. Funnily enough to the 3 i do know who's parents did care about them and made sure they went to school and stayed out of trouble are doing great now. Who would of thought it? The poor buggers should of just beat the crap out of everyone knicking phones left right and centre. Its ok though because Brian will apologise for them.

Travelling brawlers of Balbriggan

Comments