G20 Protesters kill their own indirectly at Bank of England

Bicky · 08-04-2009 12:01PM

Fozzie Bear wrote: »

Attacked from behind???? Death video???? Jesus wept.....The Guardian, sensationalise much do we???

It showed the video on the news last night. The dude in question was being a smart arse and walking very slowing in front of about 20 cops and two dogs with their handlers. If it were you or me we would have bloody well moved and quickly if 20 odd cops in riot gear were standing behind you with a wall of baying hippy loons directly in front of you. But our man dawdled along and got shoved (hard) in the back by a cop out of the way. He was flung forward and fell to the ground from where he started shouting at the cops.

He knew what he was doing and in my opinion deservedly got pushed out of the way for it. No doubt the cop who pushed him will be pillared and face months of investigations and lefty twats calling for him to be sacked, independent investigations, police reform, blah blah blah.

Its a shame the dude lost his life, but the cop who shoved him out of the way can hardly be blamed. All he did was push him in the back. No more no less. We have all done it to someone at some stage or other in our lives be in the school yard, on a sports field or horsing around with friends or brothers/sisters.

Did you actually watch the video?
****ing sick.

Fozzie Bear · 08-04-2009 01:26PM

Nodin wrote: »

Great stuff, which doesn't address the issues.
You should really apply to the PRC for a visa. They'd love you.

No idea what you mean. What issue? That he died of a heart attack?
Thanks for the visa suggestion btw. What that has to do with this debate I'm not sure but thanks none the less.

Sharpshooter wrote: »

The cop didn't just shove him though,he brought him down by hitting him on the back of his thigh with his baton.
There is coverage on CCTV of this guys journey home from work.
He wasn't involved at all.

Below is the link I seen on the news last night. Where does he get hit with a baton? I can only see him being pushed tbh.

The Video Clip on the Guardian

IIMII wrote: »

It's quite easy to kill someone by pushing them in the back, particularly on a concrete / stone surface and more so if the person isn't young and fit.

Agreed if they hit their head or something, no argument there. But this guy did not, he got up and walked away as can be seen in the link. He died later on from a heart attack did he not? No reports of a head injury.

IIMII wrote: »

You can't have the cops going around like marauding gangs themselves either.

They are hardly going around like marauding gangs for Gods sake. They were protecting peoples property from the protestors. This is the sensationalism I am talking about. They are not out there at night walking the streets stabbing people and mugging them or anything. That would be my definition of a marauding gang.

IIMII wrote: »

Anyway, there are safe ways of taking someone to the ground, and shving an over-weight, middle-aged man in the back is not one of them

They were moving him out of the way, not arresting or putting him to ground and maybe the fact that he was in your words ("over-weight, middle-aged man") had more to do with his death then a push in the back?

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Is is called assault. Try hitting some random person with a baton and shoving them in the back to the ground next time your out. Let's see if they accept your 'I was only pushing you out of my way' excuse?

Who hit him with a baton? Show me where it happen in that video?? Have you actually watched it or are you just having a bash at the police?

Bicky wrote: »

Did you actually watch the video?
****ing sick.

Did you actually read my post (or just jumping on the moral outrage, self righteous bandwagon without reading the thread)? You will find your answer there.:rolleyes:

andrew · 08-04-2009 01:30PM

Luciano Dirty Bodyguard wrote: »

Are you actaully saying this guy would have had the heart attack anyway?
He had the heart attack because he was shocked from being assaulted by a police officer.

You have got to be bloody joking me.He was doing nothing and was killed by a police officer,yes KILLED.

If he had not been pushed he would not have died,simple as!

Its clear manslaughter .So I would expect a conviction)

That's a load of bull. Since when is it reasonable to expect that pushing someone to the ground will give them a heart attack? How do you even know that's what caused the heart attack? Oh wait, you don't, you're just making a giant assumption.

Nodin wrote: »

Great stuff, which doesn't address the issues.

You should really apply to the PRC for a visa. They'd love you.

What issues exactly?

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Is is called assault. Try hitting some random person with a baton and shoving them in the back to the ground next time your out. Let's see if they accept your 'I was only pushing you out of my way' excuse?

Someone hitting some randomer on the street with a baton on a normal day isn't the same as a policeman hitting someone and shoving them out of the way during a protest. The guy shouldn't have been there, he put himself in that situation. Its not as if that was the only way he could get home.

Terry · 08-04-2009 01:32PM

seanybiker wrote: »

dont be calling me an idiot girl. Im allowed have my opinion as women like yourself are. Internet tough girl. Ha ha. Would love to bump into you.

Ho_hum wrote: »

Oh my, what a bitter little sort you are! "Thugs", "hippies" who "show up at environment and animal-rights protests". Oh, the shame!

And what's your contribution to history, nitrogen....typing right-wing bile on messageboards? Truly, you're a hero. Zzzzzzzzzzz.

Cianos wrote: »

And I suppose you'll be trolling their funerals too? What is it about protesting that turns your stomach so much?

Nodin wrote: »

Great stuff, which doesn't address the issues.

You should really apply to the PRC for a visa. They'd love you.

Cut it out. All of you.

A Dub in Glasgo · 08-04-2009 01:43PM

andrew wrote: »

Someone hitting some randomer on the street with a baton on a normal day isn't the same as a policeman hitting someone and shoving them out of the way during a protest. The guy shouldn't have been there, he put himself in that situation. Its not as if that was the only way he could get home.

You really do need to read up about what happened

1. The guy was not a protester
2. He worked nearby
3. He lived nearby
4. He was on his way home from work when he was stopped by the police from going home
5. He was herded with the protesters
6. He was trying to get home

A Dub in Glasgo · 08-04-2009 01:45PM

Fozzie Bear wrote: »

Who hit him with a baton? Show me where it happen in that video?? Have you actually watched it or are you just having a bash at the police?

The same copper who shoved him in the back hit him with a baton on the back of his legs just before he shoved him. Watch the video again

andrew · 08-04-2009 01:48PM

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

You really do need to read up about what happened

1. The guy was not a protester
2. He worked nearby
3. He lived nearby
4. He was on his way home from work when he was stopped by the police from going home
5. He was herded with the protesters
6. He was trying to get home

The policeman who hit him more than probably didn't know any of those things, so what difference does it make?

Nodin · 08-04-2009 01:54PM

Fozzie Bear wrote: »

They (.....)then a push in the back?

He was walking home from work. He had his hands in his pockets and his head down when he was shoved. He wasn't attacking anyone, or "property" or even protesting. In fact he wasn't even facing the cops. If that was done by a gang of young lads, there'd be somebody in custody.

Nodin · 08-04-2009 01:56PM

andrew wrote: »

The policeman(....)it make?

It was obvious he was no threat. He had his back to them. What else do they need to know?

Biggins · 08-04-2009 02:10PM

Cutting to the chase.

Look at the still images taken from the video HERE

He walked across(?) in front of the protesters and cops
He was waking AWAY
He had his hands in his pockets so he WASN'T throwing anything or showing signs he was going to.

He was hit to the ground, then further shoved more so.
They just left him there and walked away.
They later claimed that others were throwing items at them (their miserable excuse) BUT look at the ground surrounding the man, the ground is spotless all around.
Granted he DID walk in front of the cops - somehow provocative some might claim - but others could also say it was his idea (IF any was in his head at the time!) of a PEACEFUL protest.

Some cop(s) should be up for second-degree manslaughter. No if's or buts in this case.
...But no, the British cops will look after their own. Wait and see.

A Dub in Glasgo · 08-04-2009 02:11PM

andrew wrote: »

The policeman who hit him more than probably didn't know any of those things, so what difference does it make?

So what if this particular goon did not know that

He should still be accountable for his actions otherwise you appear to be advocating a 'shoot/hit first, ask questions later' type of regime

Nodin · 08-04-2009 02:22PM

Biggins wrote: »

Cutting to the chase.

Look at the still images taken from the video HERE
He walked across(?) in front of the protesters and cops

He was waking AWAY

He had his hands in his pockets so he WASN'T throwing anything or showing signs he was going to..

As he was in front of some parked bikes etc, they actually had to actively move to him, more so than him being in front of him. You can see one with a dog moving in from yer mans right, while the rest are coming in from off camera.

Jack Bauer999 · 08-04-2009 02:24PM

Some cop(s) should be up for second-degree manslaughter. No if's or buts in this case.
...But no, the British cops will look after their own. Wait and see.[/QUOTE]

rubbish,hes obviously involved. hes menadering aimlessly infront of a police riot squad that are advancing at a snails pace trying to obstruct them/
he dosent look like someone who sole purpose is trying to find his way home to me, more pr spin to make him appear as an angel that by coidence just manage to find himself in the middle of a riot suitation.

if he was not involved then he would not have been in that position as simple as. im just surprised he did'nt get a slap of a baton. the police seem quite restraint to me.

Biggins · 08-04-2009 02:26PM

Nodin wrote: »

[/list]
As he was in front of some parked bikes etc, they actually had to actively move to him, more so than him being in front of him. You can see one with a dog moving in from yer mans right, while the rest are coming in from off camera.

Parked bikes? Wow!
Actually the cops were walking towards him on the road (who parks bikes on a road on a day of protests?).
How do you actively move someone on ON when you striking them down to the ground?

A Dub in Glasgo · 08-04-2009 02:29PM

Oh dear, the usual 'if you have done nothing wrong, you need not fear the police' mantra therefore he must have done something wrong, he must have planned something otherwise why would he even be there?? He is to blame for being there just like that silly brazillian is to blame for getting on that tube!

Interesting stuff but the evidence does not back this up at all

seanybiker · 08-04-2009 02:31PM

maybe he got scared after walking into a protest and his heart couldnt handle it. He is dead now so whats the point in trying to be a detective.
Im gonna give me da a kick in the back of the legs and see what happens.

Biggins · 08-04-2009 02:32PM

The man might not have been a saint.
CLEARLY, he should have not been there BUT his actions at the time leading up to he getting hit were PEACEFUL.
For those actions - he paid with his life. What if that was your son, daughter or wife doing the same?

Hands up here anyone who has been at a protest and not carried out a peaceful protest in front of the law?
Do you deserve to die just for doing so?

me-skywalker · 08-04-2009 02:34PM

Biggins wrote: »

He walked across(?) in front of the protesters and cops

He was waking AWAY

He had his hands in his pockets so he WASN'T throwing anything or showing signs he was going to.

.

Ok so thsi posese the question... Theresa riot goin on and the two sides are squaring upto each other... do you walk in between? NO!! He's an idiot and shoudl have staryed well away if he wasnt involved.

Im not advocating the police beating him for no reason as you did point out he did have his hadns in his pocket AND his back was turned that cop was a coward and i fully support below statement!!

Biggins wrote: »

Some cop(s) should be up for second-degree manslaughter. No if's or buts in this case.
...But no, the British cops will look after their own. Wait and see.

Agreed

A Dub in Glasgo · 08-04-2009 02:42PM

me-skywalker wrote: »

Ok so thsi posese the question... Theresa riot goin on and the two sides are squaring upto each other... do you walk in between? NO!! He's an idiot and shoudl have staryed well away if he wasnt involved.

There was no riot going on. The police were herding anybody in that area into a containable space

me-skywalker · 08-04-2009 02:50PM

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

There was no riot going on. The police were herding anybody in that area into a containable space

Just it wasnt at that moment that he was walking by they were still going on and they people they were herding were obviously been herded for a reason.. my point was he's an idiot for walking in between them.

Nodin · 08-04-2009 02:52PM

Jack Bauer999 wrote: »

Some cop(.....) just surprised he did'nt get a slap of a baton. the police seem quite restraint to me.

This bears no relation to the video whatsoever.

me-Skywalker wrote:

Ok so thsi posese the question... Theresa riot goin on and the two sides are squaring upto each other... do you walk in between? .

Well he didn't, so theres not much point in asking. he seems to have been standing near some press briefing or interview....

A Dub in Glasgo · 08-04-2009 02:59PM

me-skywalker wrote: »

Just it wasnt at that moment that he was walking by they were still going on and they people they were herding were obviously been herded for a reason.. my point was he's an idiot for walking in between them.

So where would you have suggested he went? Do consider that he had just left work and was walking home and the police would not let through the cordon.

Jack Bauer999 · 08-04-2009 03:04PM

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

So where would you have suggested he went? Do consider that he had just left work and was walking home and the police would not let through the cordon.

how about go another route! its the middle of a major city, its not as if theres only one road you can possibly use.

me-skywalker · 08-04-2009 03:07PM

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

So where would you have suggested he went? Do consider that he had just left work and was walking home and the police would not let through the cordon.

Its not a normal day, its not like any other day after work where he can just stroll home looking at the clouds in the sky, there's protests and riots and clearly a heightened sense of tension and fear amongst the police and the public. He should have taken a different route. Or he should have waited until later to leave work. Or when he got to that point where that was happenning raed the situation better and wait. I know people(most) would have avoided the troublesome area's and scene' jsut on the off-chance... just incase.....

BTW im not condoning the policemans behaviour that hit him its sick and he should be held accountable for this mans subsequent death.

andrew · 08-04-2009 03:08PM

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

So what if this particular goon did not know that

He should still be accountable for his actions otherwise you appear to be advocating a 'shoot/hit first, ask questions later' type of regime

In come cases, asking questions later is the only option there is. They could hardly ask everyone there what their intentions were.

A Dub in Glasgo · 08-04-2009 03:13PM

Jack Bauer999 wrote: »

how about go another route! its the middle of a major city, its not as if theres only one road you can possibly use.

me-skywalker wrote: »

Its not a normal day like its not like any other day after work where he can just stroll home looking at the clouds in the sky, there's protestes and riots and clearly a heightend sense of tension and fear amongst the police and the public. He should have taken a different route. Or he should have waited until later to leave work. Or when he got to that point where that was happenning raed the situation better and wait. I know people(most) would have avoided the troublesome area's and scene' jsut on the off-chance... just incase.....

The police had put the cordon around where he was. They refused to let him out so where would you have suggested he went?

BTW im not condoning the policemans behaviour that hit him its sick and he should be held accountable for this mans subsequent death.

You have just called the man an idiot for being there, blaming the victim?

A Dub in Glasgo · 08-04-2009 03:14PM

andrew wrote: »

In come cases, asking questions later is the only option there is. They could hardly ask everyone there what their intentions were.

In some cases... covers an awful lot of bases

You believe in this situation the police have a right to 'hit first and ask questions later'? Maybe not even ask any questions at all

Dyr · 08-04-2009 03:27PM

Jack Bauer999 wrote: »

how about go another route! its the middle of a major city, its not as if theres only one road you can possibly use.

Do you actually know what a cordon is?

Morlar · 08-04-2009 03:38PM

Biggins wrote: »

Cutting to the chase.

Look at the still images taken from the video HERE
He walked across(?) in front of the protesters and cops

He was waking AWAY

He had his hands in his pockets so he WASN'T throwing anything or showing signs he was going to.

He was hit to the ground, then further shoved more so.
They just left him there and walked away.
They later claimed that others were throwing items at them (their miserable excuse) BUT look at the ground surrounding the man, the ground is spotless all around.
Granted he DID walk in front of the cops - somehow provocative some might claim - but others could also say it was his idea (IF any was in his head at the time!) of a PEACEFUL protest.

Some cop(s) should be up for second-degree manslaughter. No if's or buts in this case.
...But no, the British cops will look after their own. Wait and see.

Going by the footage on skynews he was being moved along and decided to slow amble right the way down taking his merry time - for which he recieved a mild shove & possibly a tap of a baton on the back of his leg.

He then tripped and fell over (hands being in pockets did not help) he then got up without seeking any kind of medical attention and walked away (looking a bit drunk/ wobbly).

He collapsed off camera further along and died of a weak heart in the end - You would see 10 times worse (in terms of shoving etc) at a concert or even in a christmas sale (not to be flippant but I have seen literally worse in that setting).

It is a sad fact that the man died but calling for the police to be up on 'manslaughter charges' is ridiculous. They were in a difficult position not of their making with burning effigies, shops (or at least a bank) being looted and potential widescale civil unrest in the midst of a situation where a largely peaceful demonstration was being sabotaged by a minority of anarchist / vandals/ leftwing thugs (when is it ever not the left wing thugs doing this ?) - the police were in a difficult position and took a reasonably mild approach which had unforseen consequences due to the mans pre=exsisting ill health.

It is a sad story but the police involved do not deserve to have their careers ended and face time in prison as a result of this event in my view.

me-skywalker · 08-04-2009 03:40PM

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

The police had put the cordon around where he was. They refused to let him out so where would you have suggested he went?

how did every other normal civilian avoid getting caught up in this? they avoided it and they stayed out of the way not by walking across the road inbetween the protestors and police.

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

me-skywalker wrote: »

BTW im not condoning the policemans behaviour that hit him its sick and he should be held accountable for this mans subsequent death.

You have just called the man an idiot for being there, blaming the victim?

Are you seriously that pigheaded that your saying that im blaming the victim for the police brutality. Im blaming the victim for being there in that piece of land,for walking across the road like a fewl in that situation... Im not blaming hm for getting hit as he clearly done nothing wrong.

I however am blaming you for insolence trying to put words in my mouth.

G20 Protesters kill their own indirectly at Bank of England

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