Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
A YES vote for Lisbon is a YES vote for ushering in the New World Order.
Options
Comments
-
You've stated that how superpowers end up but offered no evidence to show how this applies for Europe.mysterious wrote: »No they were not exaggerated and no, I never usesd words such as mad, crazy, armaggeddan, end of the world.
As you keep putting into my mouth to make is appear my reasonings were exaggerated.I made points on other superpowers and what has happened throughout history. Are these facts exaggerated. So no they are not. My paitence is running very thin with your constant crap of nit picking, twisting and disorting my words. This selective reading is really apathetic.
I emphasised the point, of what has happened with power and history most importantly. I stated this is the general direction of where Europe is heading like any superpower. As the last 10 years will show the same idealogy of Europe becoming closer and closer, by each passing of treaties and amendment to a Superstate. Europe is closer now than 10 years ago, and you could say the same once Lisbon and the next few treaties in 10 years time.
So Knock it off will you. You still have to show me where I have been scaremongering. I also told you to vote yes if you want.
Furthermore stating your idea of what might happen should Lisbon be pass with the intent of using the fear of the situation to change peoples opinion is scaremongering.
Why don't you go back and read my post properly and maybe you will learn to be more constructive in communicating back to me.
Which superpowers do you believe are in anyway similar to the European Union?0 -
mysterious wrote: »You need to be more specific as to what's scaremongering?
When we are talking about a super power here.
There is your scaremongering.mysterious wrote: »The pictures associated can be used with the Bush Administration. The idea of microchips,war and a controlled society has already started. A stronger superstate Europe is the step towards these measures.
.
What evidence do you have to support this claim?0 -
If we don't vote no to this one, we can with the next one, or the next, or the next one..............
In a serene, non corruptive society that would be the case. But as I said by passing of each treaty they are gaining more power. The direction of a super state will keep going. They have mastered these treaties with clever writing and wording. So it will get passed.
I do hope your right people will see the bigger picture and realise that lisbon is only a small fraction of the agenda here with the elites.
The important thing, is to be aware of this. It's important to question the agenda here. It's important to use some foresight and suspect best and worst case scenerios that may happen. There needs to be dicernment here? We are talking about power, politics and elite agendas.
The other thing to point out. Since we "live in a democracy";) cough. They don't force by power or fist. They put there power to us via signing over of these treaties. Your probably asking but whats wrong with it. Not much from looking at it. But each treaty is a step up the ladder. To what will be really wrong.
No your nitpicking.But, but, if the UK is for it, it doesn't mean the EU is.
Classic EU nitpicking.
You nitpicked yourselfSweeden is against it, so EU is against it
I just pointed out, UK isn't. Read before you jump on the attack.
You now say other countries.You specifically mentioned fluoridisation and the EU. When it's pointed out Sweden and indeed other countries have withdrawn, you pick a case in Southampton.
What other countries, I asked for links and you said there is none.Open your eyes Mysterious or you'll get brainwashed. The EU does not want to fluoridise our water. FACT.
When I see it happening I will believe it.0 -
There is your scaremongering.
What evidence do you have to support this claim?
Mushroom clouds, and a controlled society can be associated with superowers
Bush admin raged two illegal wars killled thousands in Afghanistan, created a false flag operation within their own country and used it to gain support in wars. Killed over a million Iraqs, Destroyed the country. Built 17 pernament bases there. Destroyed much of Bagdad. USA is a superpower
Big brother society. Government can invade your privacy. They can use torture, they can't suspect your terrorists if they feel so. They can invade any country they want if they feel so even against their own peoples choices. A la Iraq. The president can overwrite this, as Bush Did theatrically.
This is an example of what a superpower, once it has enough power. It will use it to gain more power
This is not scaremongering. This is a reality and this happens. Scaremongering would be saying this is going to happen because I'm posting pictures up. A super state Europe will behave like this, it's the nature of a superpower.
China is now a huge seller of arms and in the geoenergy war with America another superpower. Europe will be no dffierent once it keeps going in the direction it's heading.
These pictures are trying to wake you up0 -
mysterious wrote: »Mushroom clouds, and a controlled society can be associated with superowers
Bush admin raged two illegal wars killled thousands in Afghanistan, created a false flag operation within their own country and used it to gain support in wars. Killed over a million Iraqs, Destroyed the country. Built 17 pernament bases there. Destroyed much of Bagdad. USA is a superpower
Big brother society. Government can invade your privacy. They can use torture, they can't suspect your terrorists if they feel so. They can invade any country they want if they feel so even against their own peoples choices. A la Iraq. The president can overwrite this, as Bush Did theatrically.
This is an example of what a superpower, once it has enough power. It will use it to gain more power
This is not scaremongering. This is a reality and this happens. Scaremongering would be saying this is going to happen because I'm posting pictures up. A super state Europe will behave like this, it's the nature of a superpower.
China is now a huge seller of arms and in the geoenergy war with America another superpower. Europe will be no dffierent once it keeps going in the direction it's heading.
These pictures are trying to wake you up
Then if it's a reality then why not back it up?
What exactly is Europe doing that would lead to "Mushroom clouds, and a controlled society?"
If you can't actually back it up it's scaremongering.0 -
Advertisement
-
Then if it's a reality then why not back it up?
What exactly is Europe doing that would lead to "Mushroom clouds, and a controlled society?"
If you can't actually back it up it's scaremongering.
Like since you haven't read my points, what would you want backed up
My phonecall with sarcosy. The trigger here with you is, if you don't agree with something you keep shouting more back up please. When I give you my evidence. You repeat question and repeat more back up.
This kind of behaviour shows that your deliberately trying to ignore the actual point you refuse to want to accept.:D
We live in a demanding society where he dont need to research or dicern, just ask the next person to tell me. Lazyness is one the main traits in humans. This just keeps been clarified directly to me. My evidence is the responses.
You always here it, when someone disagrees or ignores the evidence. You get no thats not back up I WANT more back up. When you give more. no I want more back up.
When your aware of this sillyness. You wonder what are they really looking for:rolleyes:0 -
You haven't given anything close to evidence.mysterious wrote: »Like since you haven't read my points, what would you want backed up
My phonecall with sarcosy. The trigger here with you is, if you don't agree with something you keep shouting more back up please. When I give you my evidence. You repeat question and repeat more back up.
This kind of behaviour shows that your deliberately trying to ignore the actual point you refuse to want to accept.:D
We live in a demanding society where he dont need to research or dicern, just ask the next person to tell me. Lazyness is one the main traits in humans. This just keeps been clarified directly to me. My evidence is the responses.
You always here it, when someone disagrees or ignores the evidence. You get no thats not back up I WANT more back up. When you give more. no I want more back up.
When your aware of this sillyness. You wonder what are they really looking for:rolleyes:
You claimed that Europe will take away our sovereignty and lead to mushroom clouds and a controlled society. We ask you to show some to support this. You say "It's happened before with other superpowers." That's not exactly evidence.
We ask which old superpower are you referring to and how are they the same, you ignore the question.
So lets be clear, you believe that if Lisbon is passed it will allow Europe to take more and more power from it's members till it becomes a superpower and then it will lead to a controlled society and nuclear war?0 -
You haven't given anything close to evidence.
You claimed that Europe will take away our [EDIT BY MYSTERIOUS EVENTUALLY sovereignty] and lead to mushroom clouds and a controlled society. We ask you to show some to support this. You say "It's happened before with other superpowers." That's not exactly evidence.
Yes it is, and it's something happens alot. Unless a super state Europe is special and immune to how human nature works with power.
NoWe ask which old superpower are you referring to and how are they the same, you ignore the question.
I've given three posts to this and used two existing superpowers as examples. I gave examples clearly of what a superpower needs to do in order to sustain the status/power duo.
Europe is no different. You have a severre issue with not reading what I stated clearly.
No, I said, once Lisbon is passed, it will be the beginning of the eites beginning the agenda of a controlled society.So lets be clear, you believe that if Lisbon is passed it will allow Europe to take more and more power from it's members till it becomes a superpower and then it will lead to a controlled society and nuclear war?
Please stop nit picking. I've explained a diagram and hypothosis as to what may happen once lisbon is passed. It will involve far more passing of treaties. It would take at least 20 years to become fruition. This treaty is the start of this. Probably my fifth time saying this.0 -
And you have shown nothing but your own opinion to back this up.mysterious wrote: »
No, I said, once Lisbon is passed, it will be the beginning of the eites beginning the agenda of a controlled society.
Please stop nit picking. I've explained a diagram and hypothosis as to what may happen once lisbon is passed. It will involve far more passing of treaties. It would take at least 20 years to become fruition. This treaty is the start of this. Probably my fifth time saying this.
No mention of particlars of treaties in the works, no examples from the lisbon treaty to show how other treaty would do anything you claimed.
Nothing except your personal belief claimed as fact.0 -
mysterious wrote: »No, I said, once Lisbon is passed, it will be the beginning of the eites beginning the agenda of a controlled society.
Please stop nit picking. I've explained a diagram and hypothosis as to what may happen once lisbon is passed. It will involve far more passing of treaties. It would take at least 20 years to become fruition. This treaty is the start of this. Probably my fifth time saying this.
The way I see it mysterious is that you've said a lot of things but proving them is not something you are able to do. It appears because you believe it we must be stupid or ignorant that we don't. You are a stranger to us so your intuition or gut feelings don't add up to a hill of beans. Either prove it or stop going on.
And as others have said if a treaty comes along I don't like I'll vote no. Nothing has even remotely changed to stop me voting no any other time I like. I didn't vote the last time as I didn't understand what I was voting for but I'll be voting yes in the second vote. And in all honesty I'm not crazy on votes being re-run but it really looks like people have changed their views on it.0 -
Advertisement
-
And you have shown nothing but your own opinion to back this up.
No mention of particlars of treaties in the works, no examples from the lisbon treaty to show how other treaty would do anything you claimed.
Nothing except your personal belief claimed as fact.
Can you point out, where I put personal belief in the equation:p
I stated many facts. You didn't see them.0 -
mysterious wrote: »Can you point out, where I put personal belief in the equation:p
The personal belief that Europe will go the way of every other superpower.
You claim they are fact but offer nothing to support them as such.mysterious wrote: »I stated many facts. You didn't see them.0 -
The personal belief that Europe will go the way of every other superpower.
No I didn't. I said that there is evidence to suggest that it will go like every superpower. Unless you can prove that there is a superpower that ever ended up a democracy and peaceful.
You obviously don't know what a superpower does, in order to remain one.
Here is My personal view, I will say, I don't see why Europe will be different. Since power corrupts and democracy is'nt real, once the peddle is going in the direction of the elite wanting a super state.
The fact remains though There has never been change to this cycle since the beginning of mankind, now this is a fact.
So your quite wrong again
I've yet to see where I'm scaremongering and using my beliefs to persuade people here.You claim they are fact but offer nothing to support them as such.
I have, you ignore the facts I've shown. I've had to correct you twice and pull you up once on twisting my words.0 -
If there's evidence please show it.mysterious wrote: »No I didn't. I said that there is evidence to suggest that it will go like every superpower. Unless you can prove that there is a superpower that ever ended up a democracy and peaceful.
I can't show a superpower that ended up a democracy because what's happening in Europe has never happened before.
Drawing parallels to the Roman empire and stuff is useless because the European union is nothing like the roman empire.mysterious wrote: »I've yet to see where I'm scaremongering and using my beliefs to persuade people here.
So vote yes on Lisbon and Europe will get rid of democracy and the elite will form a superstate to control everyone?mysterious wrote: »Here is My personal view, I will say, I don't see why Europe will be different. Since power corrupts and democracy is'nt real, once the peddle is going in the direction of the elite wanting a super state.
How is this not scaremongering?
You're just stating things as fact and refusing to back them up with anything other than your personal beliefs.mysterious wrote: »I have, you ignore the facts I've shown.0 -
I did, my third time telling you, you don't read it. I'm sorry I cannot keep pointing it out nor will I.If there's evidence please show it.
I'm not here to teach adults basic things here.I can't show a superpower that ended up a democracy because what's happening in Europe has never happened before.
You really think that:D Democracy. They thought USA was a democracy too. I hate to say thats bull****.
They have alot in common. Both an elite entity wanting to take over a continenet, the same continent even. The only difference, is different time period and different methods obviously.Drawing parallels to the Roman empire and stuff is useless because the European union is nothing like the roman empire.So vote yes on Lisbon and Europe will get rid of democracy and the elite will form a superstate to control everyone?
How is this not scaremongering?
Distorting my words I have debunked this **** a hundred times. By you.
I explained this is not what I said. I've explained already go and vote yes if you want or wish. I'm not interested to know your decision either.
So either prove my scaremongering or shut up about it.You're just stating things as fact and refusing to back them up with anything other than your personal beliefs.
Your stating alot of false facts and false impressions of me.
You really need to take a good look at your own posts before you go on the attack judging all the time.0 -
Then just point it out again. Or link to the post with the evidence.mysterious wrote: »I did, my third time telling you, you don't read it. I'm sorry I cannot keep pointing it out nor will I.
I'm not here to teach adults basic things here.
Why is that so hard?
Unfortunately the evidence is against you on this. America is a democracy.mysterious wrote: »You really think that:D Democracy. They thought USA was a democracy too. I hate to say thats bull****.
Well the Romans tried to gain control through military force applied to locals.mysterious wrote: »They have alot in common. Both an elite entity wanting to take over a continenet, the same continent even. The only difference, is different time period and different methods obviously.
Europe however is a union of indenpendant nation states signing to to certain trade agreements and common laws.
There is nothing showing that Europe wants total control of the internal working of it's members.
You are claiming that Europe is going to control us all and take away democracy.mysterious wrote: »Distorting my words I have debunked this **** a hundred times. By you.
I explained this is not what I said. I've explained already go and vote yes if you want or wish. I'm not interested to know your decision either.
So either prove my scaremongering or shut up about it.
What is that?
What false facts?mysterious wrote: »Your stating alot of false facts and false impressions of me.
You really need to take a good look at your own posts before you go on the attack judging all the time.0 -
Because your selective in what you want to read and what you want to hold as evidenceThen just point it out again. Or link to the post with the evidence.
Why is that so hard?
I''m not lapdog, barking for you.:p
Is it really though?Unfortunately the evidence is against you on this. America is a democracy.
"democracy" War on Iraq? People were against it, to the pont of how many years later, still very much a topic of dicussion.
Since America is a very brainswashed nation. They woke up to this trick. Now it's clear people are not going to tolerate a US president deciding on going to war against the people.
Cus this does not represent America. Most American's would speak their minds about that.
We live in a false reality that we live in a democracy. Democracy looks real because it's temporary.Well the Romans tried to gain control through military force applied to locals.
Europe however is a union of indenpendant nation states signing to to certain trade agreements and common laws.
The smartest and most valid point in this whole thread. Now we are getting somewhere.
The elites still have the same goals but use new different methods I hope you will see in your own lining. Therefore the ruling elite has never supressed its ruthless idealogy to retain more power and control That will never change of course. Human nature will tell you that.
The difference between Rome and the New Europe. They are finding new ways the elite are finding ways to control us, using treaties, amendments and regulations for this system. The process of making this happen would take far longer than the Roman times of course. Doesn't change the fact of, of power corupting and power leading to more power and control. Rulers will always be rulers. Leaders will always be leaders. And followers will always be followers.
You can very easily control a nation with these treaties, because "we live in democracy" right. Where you put your vote for a treaty. You put yourself up for it. You live and abide by this system. So you lose your own power. Bit by bit slowly but surely. The elite don't have to force you or use physical force to get you to give up your power. They can easily use manipulation and a smart choice of words.
The same old story is still here today. just new lines added and new techniques added as time goes on. Powers of be and ruling elites are no less evil or better than they were throighout history. They are no different in wanting to acheieve their goals. They are just doing things differently than before.
I wouldn't bet my life on that.There is nothing showing that Europe wants total control of the internal working of it's members.
The making of a superpower.You are claiming that Europe is going to control us all and take away democracy.
What is that?0 -
What the hell are you on about?mysterious wrote: »Because your selective in what you want to read and what you want to hold as evidence
I''m not lapdog, barking for you.:p
Why not show exactly where you've provided this evidence?
Yes really. Despite your silly rhetoric.mysterious wrote: »Is it really though?
"democracy" War on Iraq? People were against it, to the pont of how many years later, still very much a topic of dicussion.
Since America is a very brainswashed nation. They woke up to this trick. Now it's clear people are not going to tolerate a US president deciding on going to war against the people.
Cus this does not represent America. Most American's would speak their minds about that.
We live in a false reality that we live in a democracy. Democracy looks real because it's temporary.
I'm not sure if you noticed but a democrat was elect precisely due to Bush's unpopularity. And because that the Democrats gained control of the house for the same reason.
And have you anything to show that this is what the European Union is going to do? Or is it just the assertion that power corrupts.mysterious wrote: »The smartest and most valid point in this whole thread. Now we are getting somewhere.
The elites still have the same goals but use new different methods I hope you will see in your own lining. Therefore the ruling elite has never supressed its ruthless idealogy to retain more power and control That will never change of course. Human nature will tell you that.
The difference between Rome and the New Europe. They are finding new ways the elite are finding ways to control us, using treaties, amendments and regulations for this system. The process of making this happen would take far longer than the Roman times of course. Doesn't change the fact of, of power corupting and power leading to more power and control. Rulers will always be rulers. Leaders will always be leaders. And followers will always be followers.
You can very easily control a nation with these treaties, because "we live in democracy" right. Where you put your vote for a treaty. You put yourself up for it. You live and abide by this system. So you lose your own power. Bit by bit slowly but surely. The elite don't have to force you or use physical force to get you to give up your power. They can easily use manipulation and a smart choice of words.
What methods exactly are they using and can you back this up?
What exactly in the Lisbon treaty would allow of any of this?
And what evidence do you have that this is Europe's goal?mysterious wrote: »The same old story is still here today. just new lines added and new techniques added as time goes on. Powers of be and ruling elites are no less evil or better than they were throighout history. They are no different in wanting to acheieve their goals. They are just doing things differently than before.
Who are these powers that be?
Then can you show something to support it with out going into more silly power corrupts stuff?mysterious wrote: »I wouldn't bet my life on that.
No it's a baseless accusation.mysterious wrote: »The making of a superpower.0 -
What the hell are you on about?
Why not show exactly where you've provided this evidence?
I did. You wont read them, I have three pages. What evidence do you want know, like which are you going to selectively read now.
The next time you ask me to repeat myself. I will deny ignorance and not post to that behaviour.
Oh I see:D So America and the politics of America miracolously changed..
I'm not sure if you noticed but a democrat was elect precisely due to Bush's unpopularity. And because that the Democrats gained control of the house for the same reason.
Just like when Bush was elected (not elected assgined) cough cough. Many people couldnt believe Bush got in the second time never mind the first time.
But American politics is hugely deceptive. It doesn't matter if your Dem or Republican. It's about the money. Who has the money, and who is going to make the money. And how are we a superpower going to make money in this term. These are questions that do be going on behind the scenes. We are just given a perspective and an idealogy of whos going to be presdient of America. The elites and bankers are putting their money into their candidate and misleading the masses into voting for whoever.And have you anything to show that this is what the European Union is going to do? Or is it just the assertion that power corrupts.
What methods exactly are they using and can you back this up?
What exactly in the Lisbon treaty would allow of any of this?
The future will determine that, right now you need to decide do you want a superstate of Europe or you don't
Knowing the consquences and past history in relation to superstates and empires into account.
I thought you knew alot about Europe:DAnd what evidence do you have that this is Europe's goal?
Who are these powers that be?
Oh dear, oh deary dear.Then can you show something to support it with out going into more silly power corrupts stuff?
You do know power does corrupt, are you familar with this basic fact. King mob your great enterainment. You really are, you go on deaf years to many stances in order to refrain from hearing the truth.:DNo it's a baseless accusation.
A super state Europe is no secret. Just like it's no secret that beatles were a popgroup ffs.0 -
So I see we've left rational discussion here.
So...
If lisbon gets passed Europe will force us all to wear clown suits all the time.
Why because power corrupts and the roman empire fell.0 -
Advertisement
-
So I see we've left rational discussion here.
So...
If lisbon gets passed Europe will force us all to wear clown suits all the time.
Why because power corrupts and the roman empire fell.
No you mean you instead of "we"
Don't put me into this we business, You can dig your own irrational thinking if you like.0 -
Yep because asking you to back up your claims is so irrational.mysterious wrote: »No you mean you instead of "we"
Don't put me into this we business, You can dig your own irrational thinking if you like.0 -
On my ignore list, I'm not going to get into childishness with you and speicifically entertain this. I've explained my, points clearly on this thread. I've given a tremendous amount of time, explaining in much detail, of how power and human nature is very on topic and important in this case. I have answered and provided, evidence on many stances. I have given clear indicators of what has happened in the past, what has history shown us. What is a superpower and what a superpower represents and needs to do in order to remain a superpower. I've given examples past exampes. I have given past examples. i've explained on two such countries, USA and China. I used the Bush administration and it's recent actions as a validation of this behaviour. I've explained how the elites uses control today by other means and not physical force. Most of us can understand how politics can do this.
I've given a pretty constructive argument. i have repeated myself tireslessy. And king mob, I'm not going to tolerate your ignorance.
It's up to you now what you want to take on board or ignore. You ignore alot of things quite well. You've made it clear you don't read my post. So why the hell should I repost my evidence and explanations again.0 -
You say you provided evidence for stuff but refuse to point out where.mysterious wrote: »On my ignore list, I'm not going to get into childishness with you and speicifically entertain this. I've explained my, points clearly on this thread. I've given a tremendous amount of time, explaining in much detail, of how power and human nature is very on topic and important in this case. I have answered and provided, evidence on many stances. I have given clear indicators of what has happened in the past, what has history shown us. What is a superpower and what a superpower is, represents and needs to do in order to remain a superpower.
I've given a pretty constructive argument. i have repeated myself tireslessy. And king mob, I'm not going to tolerate your ignorance.
It's up to you now what you want to take on board or ignore. You ignore alot of things quite well. You've made it clear you don't read my post. So why the hell should I repost my evidence and explanations again.
You claim that your "knowledge" of human nature and history indicates a European lust for power but refuse to back it up with anything substantial.
You have yet to provide one single rational reason to vote no on Lisbon.
But please keep lecturing me on my ignorance and childishness. It's adding so much to your argument.0 -
-
Huh wonder if you do the same?mysterious wrote: »When your on ignore you can be the judge of your own posts:)
So can anyone answer the question rationally?
Why should we not vote for the Lisbon treaty?0 -
mysterious wrote: »In a serene, non corruptive society that would be the case. But as I said by passing of each treaty they are gaining more power. The direction of a super state will keep going. They have mastered these treaties with clever writing and wording. So it will get passed.
I do hope your right people will see the bigger picture and realise that lisbon is only a small fraction of the agenda here with the elites.
The important thing, is to be aware of this. It's important to question the agenda here. It's important to use some foresight and suspect best and worst case scenerios that may happen. There needs to be dicernment here? We are talking about power, politics and elite agendas.
As more power is transferred to the EU, No voters seem to be increasing. To me, that is understandable.
Eventually the Irish people will say, enough is enough. Personally I don't think Lisbon is it, but there will be a Treaty were I will say enough is enough.mysterious wrote:The other thing to point out. Since we "live in a democracy";) cough. They don't force by power or fist. They put there power to us via signing over of these treaties. Your probably asking but whats wrong with it. Not much from looking at it. But each treaty is a step up the ladder. To what will be really wrong.
This democracy you cough at, gives us an opt out, unlike other countries on Lisbon.
Anyway, if the EU wants to go further, it will need other countries to have Referendums. That is what you are missing Mysterious.
Many No voters point to there being No other referendums in other countries and say Lisbon is 95% of the EU Constitution. Fair enough, thing is, that 5% is extremely important.
To get that extra 5% in the next Treaty, the EU needs Referendums in some countries!mysterious wrote:No your nitpicking.
You nitpicked yourself
I just pointed out, UK isn't. Read before you jump on the attack.
You now say other countries.
What other countries, I asked for links and you said there is none.
Nope, you brought up fluoridisation on an EU thread, nobody else. I actually don't need any links when all you can point to is a test case in Southampton.
I can point to Sweden, Germany and Holland, EU Members, withdrawing fluoride from their water supplies as the EU trend. All you can point to is Southampton.
You should admit flluoride has nothing to do with the EU. Why? Because snide snipes at the EU like that do your cause no good.
Taxation cannot be increased by Lisbon. Maybe a future treaty could, but again, that would need a referendum.
We will have more Referenda after Lisbon. Anybody who says otherwise is lying.
Basically, if you think politicians are misleading voters, don't mislead voters to try and prove it!mysterious wrote: »
This kind of behaviour shows that your deliberately trying to ignore the actual point you refuse to want to accept.:D
I hope you can admit now that fluoridisation is not EU Policy.Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.
0 -
As more power is transferred to the EU, No voters seem to be increasing. To me, that is understandable.
Eventually the Irish people will say, enough is enough. Personally I don't think Lisbon is it, but there will be a Treaty were I will say enough is enough.
I have to commend you on your response. This is the sort of awareness I'm specifically talking about.This is something we should be talking about.
If you were go with your reasoning on the above, whats the point of Lisbon, when the next treaty will give more rules and more amendments but don't look threatening, the less we are aware in 10 years, it will be to late, as Europe as a superstate will already be here and there will be no going back, since each treaty was carefully assigned and planned at each time in order to pass along the events. The less we aware the easier it will be for the elites.
This is why the treaties are carefully asigned, planned, written cleverally, specifcally for a time period. Once this dice is rolled, it's on to continue the game.
I just don't see the logic, people who are yes voters fail to question the reality and what it might obviously lead too, and what it is and wil lead too.
A superstate Europe. I'd rather be prepared and ahead of the elite, by giving into this treaty I feel we have already lost
I respect that your at least awares of all sides, and that you understand where I am coming from, I would imagine,
Yeah but for how long.This democracy you cough at, gives us an opt out, unlike other countries on Lisbon.Anyway, if the EU wants to go further, it will need other countries to have Referendums. That is what you are missing Mysterious.
Of course, but I don't see the bicycle slowing the hill either.Many No voters point to there being No other referendums in other countries and say Lisbon is 95% of the EU Constitution. Fair enough, thing is, that 5% is extremely important.
If it werent for Ireland, Europe would already by a year ahead in furthering it's next goal or next treaty. I'm just afraid it will be to late, if not already.
I made an example. That is all. I have to look into this topic more, I would rather see the facts on hand that the EU are abolishing flouride, I just don't see how they would, since its a the hip thing to do amongst the governments.Nope, you brought up fluoridisation on an EU thread, nobody else. I actually don't need any links when all you can point to is a test case in Southampton.
You said all the EU are against it, I gave an example recently where it isn't and certainly Ireland. It's still divided. I don't need to argue this further with you. There ieally is no point in arguing over it. Untill the ban happens and that all countries abide to it.I can point to Sweden, Germany and Holland, EU Members, withdrawing fluoride from their water supplies as the EU trend. All you can point to is Southampton.
I haven't made any snipes at the EU over thisYou should admit flluoride has nothing to do with the EU. Why? Because snide snipes at the EU like that do your cause no good.Basically, if you think politicians are misleading voters, don't mislead voters to try and prove it!
It involves a lot of self energy. I have learnt that no matter how much awarneess, evidence and time you give, and I mean and personally mean how much of yourself you give, to make the world a better place.
You will just constantly bump into ignorance, misinformed, stubborn, rude, rethoric nonsense from people. Since 9/11 I have seen people just relgiously and purposely believe the governments no matter what the naysayers, yes sayers and proof is provided, to help them dicern what is going on, and who is decepting them.
I try, but I'm not perfect. My agenda is to inform people for the benifet of the people and the good of the world and the good that remains in the world. This is an awakening period. This is a time where people. Should turn of the news, turn of the T.V and turn of Washington and the leaders that misguide was for thier own agendas.
This world is changing fast and it is not heading in the right direction. I will try and give as much perspective, evidence and awarness as I can. It's the responsibility of others to wake up too and become more aware of their environment too
The real flaw to humanity, is no matter how enlightened or how ahead you are or ahead you think you are, there is already much more to do much more to learn, much more to teach and much more to inform and much more to conquer. The more you do, the more oppostion and challlenges you face. The more people who want to be lead. The more you have lead. Humanity will never reach the idealogy I would have hoped. Since 2001 we have 8 years of chaos. I don't think there has been the momentum of awakening as I expected.:( Despite all the signs are clear. I have a real issue in trying to understand why some are not aware of it.
It's precisely why government's are as corrupt as they are, it's why they managed to trick us into wars. It's is why 9/11 happened it is why they to this day got away with it. It is why they did it, cus they are aware of reality and we are not. They will set another false flag and people will still blame other groups. People do find it hard to dicern and question the very thing they never ever dare point at.
The gameplayer all along. The people who make the rules break the rules
That is my two cents. I think I went a little of topic. But I had to post my own thoughts.
All I will say as the best advice I can give you. When you decide to vote. Seriously think before you mark the paper. Put your logic and feelings into perspective. Because either way this is a crucial decision for the beginning of what may happen or may not happen. It is something we must question and not just assume that the end all be all is what is said on this treaty. Because the elites and politicians are always bullsh!tters and always will be.0 -
On a general note, you've completely missed my point. You are so obsessed with the EU ignoring democracy, that you can't see, that for the EU to get more power after Lisbon, they need referenda!mysterious wrote: »I have to commend you on your response. This is the sort of awareness I'm specifically talking about.This is something we should be talking about.
If you were go with your reasoning on the above, whats the point of Lisbon, when the next treaty will give more rules and more amendments but don't look threatening, the less we are aware in 10 years, it will be to late, as Europe as a superstate will already be here and there will be no going back, since each treaty was carefully assigned and planned at each time in order to pass along the events. The less we aware the easier it will be for the elites.
It's the nature of the beast! Still, most country have Constitutions, so the point about no referenda in other countries will be mute in the next referenda.
I don't think you'll get my point though, because you are so convinced the EU is the NWO. The EU is subject to each countries constitution, it can't break it without a Referenda. We are the exception because ours is very sensitive.
Still, after Lisbon, for the EU to increase it's powers by 5/10%, Referenda will be required in other countries. This is were your argument is very weak mysterious.mysterious wrote:This is why the treaties are carefully asigned, planned, written cleverally, specifcally for a time period. Once this dice is rolled, it's on to continue the game.
Maybe it's because 27 countries have to compromise on complex issues? France wanted stronger EU Army provisions, they ended up with extremely vague articles. Why? Because that's all they could get and ever will get. Can you imagine France, the UK and Germany in an EU Army?mysterious wrote:I just don't see the logic, people who are yes voters fail to question the reality and what it might obviously lead too, and what it is and wil lead too.
Huge generalisation mysterious, so huge, it's pointless.mysterious wrote:Yeah but for how long.
Until it removes our constitutional requirement to have a referendum. You seriously think the Irish people will vote for that after the last referendum?mytsterious wrote:If it werent for Ireland, Europe would already by a year ahead in furthering it's next goal or next treaty. I'm just afraid it will be to late, if not already.
Yet, for the EU to move forward, there has to be referenda in other countries.
Mysterious, what you miss is the EU is a legal organisation. It cannot gain more power than each state gives it. If a Treaty goes past a countries constitution, it needs a referendum.mysterious wrote:I made an example. That is all. I have to look into this topic more, I would rather see the facts on hand that the EU are abolishing flouride, I just don't see how they would, since its a the hip thing to do amongst the governments.
LOL, Sorry, I was being mischievous. Basically, I reversed your argument to see what you'd say. All you could reply with was Southampton, I could point out Sweden, Germany and Holland and probably more.
Fluoridisation has nothing to do with the EU and you introducing it into an EU Thread damages your point.
There is as much evidence in me saying the EU will remove fluoride from Irelands water as you saying the EU will bring fluoride to Europe.mysterious wrote:You said all the EU are against it,
Were?mysterious wrote:I gave an example recently where it isn't and certainly Ireland.mysterious wrote:Shock, horror, the EU disagrees on many things. Some NWO? How does a NWO get such power when there is such disagreement and compromise?
It involves a lot of self energy. I have learnt that no matter how much awarneess, evidence and time you give, and I mean and personally mean how much of yourself you give, to make the world a better place.
You will just constantly bump into ignorance, misinformed, stubborn, rude, rethoric nonsense from people. Since 9/11 I have seen people just relgiously and purposely believe the governments no matter what the naysayers, yes sayers and proof is provided, to help them dicern what is going on, and who is decepting them.
I try, but I'm not perfect. My agenda is to inform people for the benifet of the people and the good of the world and the good that remains in the world. This is an awakening period. This is a time where people. Should turn of the news, turn of the T.V and turn of Washington and the leaders that misguide was for thier own agendas.
This world is changing fast and it is not heading in the right direction. I will try and give as much perspective, evidence and awarness as I can. It's the responsibility of others to wake up too and become more aware of their environment too
The real flaw to humanity, is no matter how enlightened or how ahead you are or ahead you think you are, there is already much more to do much more to learn, much more to teach and much more to inform and much more to conquer. The more you do, the more oppostion and challlenges you face. The more people who want to be lead. The more you have lead. Humanity will never reach the idealogy I would have hoped. Since 2001 we have 8 years of chaos. I don't think there has been the momentum of awakening as I expected.:( Despite all the signs are clear. I have a real issue in trying to understand why some are not aware of it.
It's precisely why government's are as corrupt as they are, it's why they managed to trick us into wars. It's is why 9/11 happened it is why they to this day got away with it. It is why they did it, cus they are aware of reality and we are not. They will set another false flag and people will still blame other groups. People do find it hard to dicern and question the very thing they never ever dare point at.
The gameplayer all along. The people who make the rules break the rules
That is my two cents. I think I went a little of topic. But I had to post my own thoughts.
All I will say as the best advice I can give you. When you decide to vote. Seriously think before you mark the paper. Put your logic and feelings into perspective. Because either way this is a crucial decision for the beginning of what may happen or may not happen. It is something we must question and not just assume that the end all be all is what is said on this treaty. Because the elites and politicians are always bullsh!tters and always will be.
Sorry, politicians aren't the only bull****ters.
Fluoridisation was bull**** mysterious. Weakens your point immeasurably.Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.
0 -
Advertisement
-
mysterious wrote: »I think I went a little of topic.
Yes. You did. Try not to do it again.mysterious wrote: »But I had to post my own thoughts.
No you didnt. If you want to rant or preach I suggest you get a blog. Any more ranting or off topic posts will result in a ban.0
This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement