ML or GP

Guinness Premiership for me.
I think Magners League rugby is terrible and even a couple of 'derby' games between Irish provinces won't change that.

I like the ML but there have been some bad games and interest does dwindle in it around this time when the 6 nations and the H Cup come into their own. Maybe next year with the playoffs there will be a bit of late season excitement in the ML. This years ML could be a close affair and may yet keep us all glued to Setanta.
I do enjoy watching the French league , especially Stade and Toulouse but like the ML there are some dodgy teams there too.
The GP is a good solid league , very unspectacular at times but a good game there beats most.
The ML has a good level of rugby generally with possibly a 2 tier developing.
1 - Munster, Leinster, Ospreys and Cardiff (when they feel like it)
2- Ulster, Glasgow, Scarlets, Edinburgh, Dragons, Connacht.
Still though any of these teams are well capable of beating each other. Certainly the top four would be well capable of holding their own in Enland or France as they have proved by qualifying for the HCup quarter finals.

Nehemiah Poor Compass wrote: »

yeah,
I thought someone might bring up Wasps or Leicester.
The fact is from what ive seen this season,the GP is going down the toilet.There are way too many foreignors that are rubbish journeymen and their brand of rugby is so unnatractive and boring,imo a side who dares run the ball SH style will beat them.

Wasps are a spent force and Leicester play ****e rugby although they do win.Leicester imo will have most of their players go next year,Murphy is already being looked at by a number of top french clubs and its only a matter of time before they leave and others will follow.

I wouldnt agree that its as strong as the ML,if you look now only Leicester can realistically win.Quinns just arent good enough and from the magners Cardiff,Munster,Leinster,Ospreys etc are all in with a good shout.

Thats 4 ML and 1 Prem.
In years gone by I would agree with you,but its a league on the way down,its ****e to watch and im glad tbh.The English have destroyed football,lets hope they dont do the same with rugby.

At least if the French turn the top 14 into the Barclays Premiership in rugby ,they play attractive stuff.

Completley agree.

The GP is boring plodding rugby, terrible to watch.
It's falling apart at the seams. Most of their good players will be gone by the end of the season

I don't rate it compared to the ML. Only one GP team will make it into the next round of the heineken cup . Can't see any of them winning it.

I'd say that's between the Blues and Munster. Most probably a munnster leinster semi too!!

escobar wrote: »

Good Point...The only way to compare the quality of the leagues is through international competition.

In the Heineken Cup half of the teams to make it to the knockout stages are Celtic League teams. That statistic speaks for itself......The Celtic League also has europe's best team.


The competition in the Magners league has done great things for the national sides as well with Wales and Ireland contesting the six nations this year and wales having won the six nations 2 of the last three years.
Ireland has the record try scorer of the six nations in Brian O Driscoll.

The Guiness Premiership along with the English national team seems to be falling apart at the moment with the best english players playing abroad. Not a good time for them..

Im not a big fan of the Guinness Premiership by any means dont get me wrong but in fairness they do have 3 teams in the quarter finals this season, last season they had 2 in the semis and the season before last they had 2 teams in the final.

gosplan wrote: »

I don't think the French are currently as enthusiastic about the Heineken cup as we are, apart from the nearly withdrawing thing last year. Obviously they'd like to win it but I don't think they see it as their priority - probably because of the money available through the Top 14.

Think the GP is going through a slump at the moment. it might well bounce back in the next couple of years though.

Munster are by all accounts, either a freak or a force of nature. I don't think you can judge the Magners league by their exploits. I mean they're up there with the All Blacks!

The only way to judge the leagues against each other though is in competition and we have half the teams in the knockout stages of the HC this year.

The GP won't bounce back until sterling does. Don't see that happening for awhile...that is unless england joins the euro. TBH the GP will most probably hemmorage players for the next year or two.

Munster are the all blacks of club competition and they win trophies but they're not the only good team . There's the scarlets and leinster who have a great history in the HC, The blues are looking almost unstopable this year. In fact almost every year the cl has at least matched the next best european league with getting 3 teams into the knockout stages.

I don't think any european league has gotten 4 teams through to the knockout stages before!!!!

I think using the HEC as an example is a bit short sighted. The french couldnt give a stuff about the HEC, one French team makes it through and Goose wants to allow the top 6 enter it next year? Extremelty strange thinking.


The only reason the ML teams do so well in the HEC is because they arent hugely pushed about the winning the magners league. Alot of english/French teams would prefer to win their own domestic league, the french teams for definite. Cardiff are a perfect example, best team in the ML sitting 2nd bottom in the ML, you'd never see the same in the Top 14 or GP.

toomevara wrote: »

Aeghhhh! what utter nonsense and piffle...The GP has a competitive edge and following among fans that the ML can only dream of...

Look up the GP website. Exluding games in Twickenham, the highest attended game in GP this season wouldn't even fill the RDS. Never mind the gates of 20,500 and 25,000 brought in by Ospreys and Munster this season.

toomevara wrote: »

It goes from strength to strength with record gates even in the bleeding credit crunch....Teams from the GP are very well represented in the Heineken cup quarter stage and have completely dominated the challenge cup this year

The GP is decades old. Infact, in it's format, English club rugby is no doubt over a century old.

The Magners League is 8 years old. Over the last couple of seasons, Thomond Park, Liberty Stadium, Parc y Scarlets, RDS have all been developed to better than anything you will find in the GP and with the exception of Parc y Scarlets, bigger than any stadium you will find in the GP. Parc y Scarlets would just be one of the biggest, not the biggest like all the rest.

Over the next couple of seasons, Cardiff will be added to that list, and the Dragons and Ulster will have developed grounds as good as anything you will find in the GP.

Facility wise, ML is, without question, already well ahead of GP even at this early stage of development, and these are hard cold facts without prejiduce. If you don't believe me I'll post capacity and pictures of state of the art ML grounds vs the old, creaking sheds used in GP which are smaller and far less fan friendly.

Now to the teams, in the EDF cup, Ospreys, the ML side who are defending champions against all of the GP teams, won their group knocking out GP league leaders for a good chunk of the season London Irish and high flying Harlequins who are 3rd (?) at the moment.

Cardiff dominated their group, winning all 3 games & knocking out GP heavy weights Leicester, Bath and the team Munster fans talked up as a tough draw in HEC this season Sale, who sat bottom of the group, winless.

Scarlets were unlucky on the final day to miss out on a 3rd from 4 ML teams in the GP / Welsh ML semi-finals.

Of the 4 ML teams in this competition and 12 GP teams, you can expect at least 1 ML in the final, but if I was a betting man, when the 2 finalists are decided I would have my money on GP 0 from 12 and ML 2 from 4.

In Europe, Munster, ML, are the defending champions & top ranked team in Europe and at the moment you would have to say hands down the best team in Europe.

The HEC quarter finals are made up of 4 ML, 3 GP & 1 T14.

As for the challange cup, English teams dominate it when ML send in the heavyweights of Connacht to defend our honour (with all due respect), who by the way, make the Quarter finals of the competition despite being the basement boys of ML year after year, and also T14 teams fighting relegation battles and who historically don't give a toss about Europe at the best of times and a couple of Italian and Spanish part timers. I don't think that portion of your argument is relevant.

The quality of team in the ML is, without question, better than that of the GP. Absolutely no question about it. Don't mind the hype, don't mind the flashing lights, shiny bits, sky enduced broadway show, on the coal face, ML is better.

As for the supporter argument, as said, ML is still in its infancey. Year on year, crowds are growing accross the board, with record crowds coming through the gates for most teams each season. But I'll admit there were teathing problems with the ML which people who try to talk down the league refuse to forget. First of all, when a league is set up, it's a bit much to expect it to be an instant hit which fans hoping and praying to land a trophy that's just been invented.

It's even harsher to expect that these fans will even exist in the first place when...for the most part...the team has just been invented!! (as with Wales and Scotland regionlised teams after a couple of years in ML).

ML is growing at an incredible pace, ok it has the poor Setanta coverage and hasn't been marketed as well as Sky market their multi-million investment - again, more established competition, bigger TV audiences also, but even this year compared to, say 4 years ago, the competetiveness and quality of players on the pitch is world class!! Of all the leagues in the world, Magners league games on average have the highest amount of international capped players starting for each team per game with an average of (and i will hunt out a source for this if required) iirc 12 internationals on average starting for every single team in every single game, higher than any other league in the world. Magners league, the most represented league in the last 2 world cups.

The old notion of "teams don't take it seriously" is an old argument that is getting weaker and weaker each year. Munster for example talked up the competition this season, O'Callaghan quoted as saying it's a competition they are taking very seriously (and also admited which is something they may not have done in the past) and that they very much want to win it! (no doubt after seeing arch rivals Leinster lift the crown). Look at the table this year, with all the top teams, both ML and Europe, also being the top teams in the league putting out best teams available in all games and all out to win it.

With the exception of Cardiff who are having a disastor of a domestic season, but not for a lack of trying as they have fielded their best teams all the way through, and I think their reaction after losing to Leinster in the RDS tells you that it's not as if they don't give a sh*t, they were furios.

The crowds are growing and on average attendence ML would be there or there abouts on a par with GP at the moment, but with out top teams such as Leinster, Munster, Ospreys & Cardiff being either at the very top of GP listing for average attendance, or as will be in Munsters case, the top ranked average attendence team as no GP team has a ground big enough to fit in that amount of fans.

ML has bigger grounds and as they get fuller and fuller each season, will pass out GP to a level at the moment they can't match due to the lack of facilitys.

toomevara wrote: »

Go watch Bath, leicester, London Irish , Northampton play rugby and you'll see skillful genuinely competitive rugby straight out of the top drawer.

Go watch Munster, Leinster, Cardiff Ospreys and you'll see even better rugby.

toomevara wrote: »

Aeghhhh! what utter nonsense and piffle...The GP has a competitive edge and following among fans that the ML can only dream of...It goes from strength to strength with record gates even in the bleeding credit crunch....Teams from the GP are very well represented in the Heineken cup quarter stage and have completely dominated the challenge cup this year

All this tosh about high profile names jumping ship is a massive over- statement,,,3 big name players have left for France...just 3...and the RFU are moving to put an end to that...It's the best rugby union national club competition in the world..no question and bar a few marquee clashes knocks the weak kneed ML into the ditch....

Go watch Bath, leicester, London Irish , Northampton play rugby and you'll see skillful genuinely competitive rugby straight out of the top drawer.

zzzzzzz ....jumper... rugby... ball... zzzzzzzzzzzz sorry you nearly put me asleep talking about the GP

This weak kneed ML as you call it has just gotten 4 teams in to the knockout stages of the HC.

Cmon even you toomevara would have to admit the strenght of the ML.

After all they've achieved a record no. of teams making it into the HC knockouts and have the two stand out favourites for the cup.

The GP though has only opened it's flood gates, alot more player will go as their contracts end.