Cork Hurling Manager?

teednab-el · 12-02-2009 02:33PM

Hawk Wing wrote: »

No, the team just were not good enough, deal with it

Yeah they were good until Gerald took over. They then took a good dip in performance. Hurling is still there just needs a proper manager.

premierstone · 12-02-2009 02:40PM

teednab-el wrote: »

Yeah they were good until Gerald took over. They took a good dip in performance.

Do you understand the concept of time and its affect on the human body and its capabilities at all?

And secondly the three teams that have beaten Gerald namely Killkenny, Waterford and Tipp have all introduced new players and improved in the last two years

Daysha · 12-02-2009 02:42PM

Kauto wrote: »

No other club in Europe would appoint a manager which the players clearly didnt want!

We can't say for sure, because no club in Europe would even let the players have a say in who they wanted or not

teednab-el wrote: »

Yeah they were good until Gerald took over. They took a good dip in performance.

Yeah you're right, its entirely Geralds fault.

It has absolutely nothing to do with players like Joe Deane, Sean Og and Diarmuid O'Sullivan all suffering an alarming drop of form, the average age of the squad gradually increasing with no real top class youngesters taking over, facing the best Waterford team since the 60's in 2007 and facing the best Kilkenny team ever in 2008.

:rolleyes:

Geansai · 12-02-2009 02:45PM

premierstone wrote: »

Do you understand the concept of time and its affect on the human body and its capabilities at all?

And secondly the three teams that have beaten Gerald namely Killkenny, Waterford and Tipp have all introduced new players and improved in the last two years

Well... whatever you say about Gerald, he definately cannot be criticised for not bringing in new players....

premierstone · 12-02-2009 02:58PM

Geansai wrote: »

Well... whatever you say about Gerald, he definately cannot be criticised for not bringing in new players....

No off course not thats not the point i was makeing though, yes new players were brought in but unlike KK, Tipp and W'ford these new additions didnt improve the team from what it was two years ago

BTW anyone remeber the shambles that was Cork hurling in 1990 when Gerald and Fr o'Brien then took over and duly delivered an AI months later, and he also brought he's first Club as a manger to an AI within 12 months I know these were along time ago but they are just examples and I for one dont but into this line that he has suddenly become the worst coach ever malarky thats been aired.

Geansai · 12-02-2009 03:24PM

He actually has had a pretty impresive career at all levels.

I have attached the link to wikipeida which best describes him. It's weel worth a read.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_McCarthy

Unfortunately, I'm still on the players side though on this standoff...

future_plans · 12-02-2009 03:46PM

Footage of the CCB Meeting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfMFSU2zAW0

teednab-el · 12-02-2009 08:04PM

premierstone wrote: »

Do you understand the concept of time and its affect on the human body and its capabilities at all?

And secondly the three teams that have beaten Gerald namely Killkenny, Waterford and Tipp have all introduced new players and improved in the last two years

Nonsense. Many of the 08 panel are still under 30 bar a few so there is still enough left in the tank for those that are over 30. And this panel I believe are still the 2nd best team in Ireland. And fitness simply depends on the individual. Look at Colin Lynch for example he is 35 and was one of Clare's best players of last year. So your argument doesnt win in regards of the players age.

teednab-el · 12-02-2009 08:15PM

deise59 wrote: »

facing the best Waterford team since the 60's in 2007 and facing the best Kilkenny team ever in 2008.

Just look at Waterford..they dont ever deserve to be in an All-Ireland especially after this year's performance against Kilkenny. heartless to be honest...The performance made superstars out of the complete Kilkenny panel! This best Waterford team of 2007 cudnt beat a fair Limerick team in the semi so please stop saying that a few players the Cork 08 Panel are gone beyond it. The older players of Cork i.e Deane, D. O Sullivan and Sean Og, would still put up a better performance than most of Waterford players on any given day and still deserve to be part of the Cork panel.

teednab-el · 12-02-2009 08:22PM

premierstone wrote: »

And secondly the three teams that have beaten Gerald namely Killkenny, Waterford and Tipp have all introduced new players and improved in the last two years

Tipperary cudnt beat Waterford last year...you call that improvement? They were a far better team than Waterford and they still couldnt put them away. Kilkenny showed how bad Waterford were.

s_carnage · 13-02-2009 11:14AM

Team letter to all GPA players:

Dear Players,

We, the Cork hurling panel of 2008, are writing to you as an inter-county colleague to inform you of the facts behind our current dispute with the Cork Co Board executive and team management.

We believe it is important for every county footballer and hurler to be aware of the situation because of the misleading spin being produced by our critics, in particular the claim that we are 'unreasonable'. We are not. We are passionate, committed hurling men who, together as a united panel, have taken a stand to ensure that the best standards are applied to every element of our preparation. There has been NO intimidation of younger players by senior members of the panel and everything we do and say, is arrived at by consensus.

We have no delusions about who we are or what we're about. We make no secret about our ambition to win for Cork but we do not complain when mistakes are made or games are lost; when there is a better team against us, we will be defeated; all we have sought since 2002 is that there is a genuine intention in our county to work together for one purpose. Yet again, the Cork Co Board Executive under the leadership of Secretary Frank Murphy has ensured that this cannot happen.

It is no coincidence that most of the regularly successful counties and management teams enjoy good relationships with their county boards with efficient lines of communication operating at all times. These are essentials.

Despite the fact that Gerald McCarthy is at the centre of the current impasse and has chosen to personalise it, the origins of the dispute lie firmly in the actions of the Cork panel in 2002 when a stand was taken against the Co Board executive to improve preparation standards and conditions. This action was taken despite severe intimidation by certain officials. We believed, passionately, that in the pursuit of excellence, an excellent environment must first be created. In the eyes of a number of officials, we had committed an act of treason and they have taken every opportunity since then, to undermine and divide the squad.

Since 2002, the Cork hurling public and indeed the GAA public at large has been misled by a Cork executive driven by an agenda to take back 'control' at all or any cost. We would like to put the record straight for our playing colleagues.

This is the sequence of events which have led to the current situation.

- As part of the resolution to the dispute involving the appointment of the Cork football manager in 2006/2007, we were given a role in the selection process for the appointment of the hurling manager in 2009. We entered this process in good faith, assuming, naively as we now know, that our views would be considered carefully. However, we soon realised it was a sham.

- We expressed, privately, our reservations to the Board about Gerald McCarthy after his two-year tenure. We had said nothing over those two years despite our shortcomings. However, our views were ignored and the Board decided to push ahead and reappoint the manager, without any contest. As we had attended meetings, the Board believed we had 'technically' engaged in the process and ploughed on with the ratification.

- Out of respect to Gerald, we met him in private and expressed the views of the panel to him in person and in private. We explained that we no longer had confidence in him as a manager. We also told him we believed he was being used by the Board Executive to further their agenda. He rejected our views.

- The Cork panel informed the Board on numerous occasions that the only man we did NOT want as manager was Gerald McCarthy. Their response was to reappoint him immediately.

- Since then, we believe the manager has been in a compromised position, supported by the Co Board Executive, and he has spent the past two months engaged in an unedifying PR battle opening and closing the door on the panel and issuing personalised attacks on certain individual players.

- Forced to criticise the manager's ability only as a coach and a manager due to the actions of the Board Executive, we have NOT commented on him personally. We have not spoken about his business activities, his interests or his personal traits. He did not afford certain members of our panel the same respect.

After our press conference last week, we are now in the position where we are seeking the support of the Cork hurling public. If that support is not forthcoming we will disband as a panel and every player is free to return if he so wishes. We do not and will not hold any ill-feeling towards those who return or those currently involved with the Cork set-up.

As players, we have been proud to represent our clubs and our county with the very best of our efforts. Whether those efforts include the principled stands we have taken over the past six years is now for the Cork people to decide.

If the Cork GAA members are happy with the current Co Board situation then so be it. If not, then the time has come for them to end this ridiculous series of disputes.

- We do NOT want to choose our own manager

- We do NOT want to cause trouble or difficulties

- We do NOT want to sully the name of Cork GAA

We have called on our club members to take back control of the GAA in their county. In the meantime, we will not yield to the latest attempt by the Cork Co Board executive to ride roughshod over our principles. We have the courage of our convictions to see that through no matter what happens.

We would like to express our sincere gratitude to the players and squads who have expressed their support for us to date.

While we are aware that our situation may seem a million miles away to certain players and squads, particularly those who enjoy excellent relations with their Board, there are wider implications for the treatment of players at local and national level at stake nonetheless. The Cork squad has always supported the GPA philosophy - that the role of the modern-day player must be acknowledged and respected properly. This is an issue at the heart of the current negotiations between the GPA and the GAA on official recognition which you, no doubt, are closely monitoring.

We thank you for taking the time to study this information and for all your genuine support to date. We wish you and your squad the very best for the season ahead.

Dónal Óg Cusack
On behalf of the 2008 Cork Hurling Squad

Daysha · 13-02-2009 01:11PM

teednab-el wrote: »

Just look at Waterford..they dont ever deserve to be in an All-Ireland especially after this year's performance against Kilkenny. heartless to be honest...The performance made superstars out of the complete Kilkenny panel! This best Waterford team of 2007 cudnt beat a fair Limerick team in the semi so please stop saying that a few players the Cork 08 Panel are gone beyond it. The older players of Cork i.e Deane, D. O Sullivan and Sean Og, would still put up a better performance than most of Waterford players on any given day and still deserve to be part of the Cork panel.

Hmm...where to start...

Just look at Waterford..they dont ever deserve to be in an All-Ireland especially after this year's performance against Kilkenny. heartless to be honest.

One bad performance in our first AI final in 44 years and suddenly you say we don't deserve to play in a final EVER again? I'm sorry but

If you meant to say "this panel" don't deserve another crack at a final, then that's still nonsense.. You were probably one of the 98% of the population that wanted us to win that match, and if we see a repeat of a final in 2009, the roles would still be the same.

Tony Browne is currently the longest serving GAA player in the country. He'll be 36 in July, is about to start his 18th Championship and is still probably one of the fittest men on the team. He worked his entire life to reach that final in September. After what happened, are you honestly telling me he doesn't deserve to set the record straight?

The performance made superstars out of the complete Kilkenny panel

We didn't make them as superstars. Brian Cody did.

This best Waterford team of 2007 cudnt beat a fair Limerick team in the semi

Again, one bad day does not tarnish a years built up reputation. 2007 was our most successful year since 1959. We bet your own county no less than 4 times in the space of 6 months (2 in league, 2 in championship), as well as defeating Kilkenny in a national final. The fact that Limerick were simply more up for it and started like lightning doesn't take away what we won and the style in which we won prior to that match.

please stop saying that a few players the Cork 08 Panel are gone beyond it

Can you provide me with a link to where I said that? What I said was that the more senior members of the panel like Sean Og and Deano suffered an alarming drop of form the past 2 years, which they unquestionable have done. But since when does that mean they're finished?

The older players of Cork i.e Deane, D. O Sullivan and Sean Og, would still put up a better performance than most of Waterford players on any given day and still deserve to be part of the Cork panel.

I'm not denying that. The times we faced you guys in 05 and 06 were gut-wrenching, because your team were so damn good. No matter how close we got, Cork just didn't know how to be beaten.

I can't honestly tell you if this panel will reach those same dizzy heights in those years when you just seemed invincible, but the team of 2008 is a very good squad, and had they knuckled down to pre-season training last December, I'd put them up there in the main group behind Kilkenny that had the next best chance of winning an All Ireland. But we both know that's now not the case.

Tipperary cudnt beat Waterford last year...you call that improvement?

If you're honestly telling me that Tipperary have shown no signs of improvement under Liam Sheedy compared to their days under Babs Keating, then I'd question whether you actually follow the game of hurling.

premierstone · 13-02-2009 02:01PM

deise59 wrote: »

. I'd question whether you actually follow the game of hurling.

+1 took the words out of my mouth and Im pretty confident I know the answer

teednab-el · 13-02-2009 03:09PM

deise59 wrote: »

We didn't make them as superstars. Brian Cody did

Ok lets face the facts here..no player on the Waterford team won their individual battles against their Kilkenny counterparts..that doesnt happen in any other All ireland I have seen before. Surely someone should perform and win their battle. I think your team of 2006 was the closest to what was required to win an Ireland..unfortunate that they lost to Cork that day.

If you're honestly telling me that Tipperary have shown no signs of improvement under Liam Sheedy compared to their days under Babs Keating, then I'd question whether you actually follow the game of hurling.

It would have been better if Tippeary were in the All Ireland final in 2008 but as they couldnt beat that Waterford team...I question the improvement factor.

teednab-el · 13-02-2009 03:11PM

premierstone wrote: »

+1 took the words out of my mouth and Im pretty confident I know the answer

:rolleyes:

tbh

Daysha · 13-02-2009 03:16PM

teednab-el wrote: »

Ok lets face the facts here..no player on the Waterford team won their individual battles against their Kilkenny counterparts..that doesnt happen in any other All ireland I have seen before. Surely someone should perform and win their battle.

I'm not denying how much we were abolished by, I just question whether such harsh criticism of them is deservedly merited. But that's for another topic in another time. Let's just try to stay on the topic in hand.

hawkwing · 13-02-2009 05:01PM

teednab-el wrote: »

Henry Shefflin is playing awesome stuff also and he is around for ages also.

not last year unless there's another one around

teednab-el · 13-02-2009 06:16PM

hawkwing wrote: »

not last year unless there's another one around

what? You saying that Shefflin played poor last year?

premierstone · 13-02-2009 06:20PM

teednab-el wrote: »

what? You saying that Shefflin played poor last year?

He was average at best but your probably just going on the basis of what he scored, regardless of the fact they were nearly all frees, and the fact that he somehow got a completely undeserved Allstar awarded purely on reputation - which is understandable in fairness he is one of the greats but was well below he's best last year

hawkwing · 13-02-2009 08:34PM

premierstone wrote: »

He was average at best but your probably just going on the basis of what he scored, regardless of the fact they were nearly all frees, and the fact that he somehow got a completely undeserved Allstar awarded purely on reputation - which is understandable in fairness he is one of the greats but was well below he's best last year

totally agree, very like Tipp's Eoin Kelly last year.

2Scoops · 13-02-2009 11:37PM

premierstone wrote: »

He was average at best but your probably just going on the basis of what he scored, regardless of the fact they were nearly all frees, and the fact that he somehow got a completely undeserved Allstar awarded purely on reputation - which is understandable in fairness he is one of the greats but was well below he's best last year

He may not have been up to the standards he set for himself in previous years, but that doesn't mean he didn't fully deserve the All-star. Who, based on 2008 performances, would you have picked instead of him?

Daysha · 13-02-2009 11:45PM

2Scoops wrote: »

He may not have been up to the standards he set for himself in previous years, but that doesn't mean he didn't fully deserve the All-star. Who, based on 2008 performances, would you have picked instead of him?

Two words.

John Mullane.

2Scoops · 14-02-2009 01:33AM

deise59 wrote: »

Two words.

John Mullane.

Well fair enough, Mullane would have been in my selection too, but sooner at the expense of Eoin Larken or Ben O'Connor.

Alias B · 14-02-2009 01:23PM

2Scoops wrote: »

Well fair enough, Mullane would have been in my selection too, but sooner at the expense of Eoin Larken or Ben O'Connor.

Eoin Larkin got GAA and GPA player of the year, therefore his All-Star was never in question, least not in favour of JOhn Mullane!

Mullane played well but didnt have as consistent a championship as the other forwards mentioned.

It was a toss up between Mullane and JOe Canning i reckon, and the manner in which Joe took on Cork, single-handedly couldnt deny him anything but an All-Star!

Orizio · 14-02-2009 01:38PM

Ben O'Connor had a consistently fantastic year.

soccymonster · 16-02-2009 12:18AM

premierstone wrote: »

He was average at best but your probably just going on the basis of what he scored, regardless of the fact they were nearly all frees, and the fact that he somehow got a completely undeserved Allstar awarded purely on reputation - which is understandable in fairness he is one of the greats but was well below he's best last year

Thats True! Purely On Rep..

evil-monkey · 16-02-2009 01:24AM

deise59 wrote: »

Christ dude its been hard enough reading through the comments the past week without having to fill you in on whats been happening

I had predicted around 7-8k for the march, so I'll admit it was slightly larger than I anticipated. But personally I was more impressed with the good attendence at the Dublin match given the circumstances.

I was the same, predicted around that. 10k was a decent turn out. But how many hurling supporters in Cork?? And how many would turn out for a march against the players?? That would be interesting...

dahayeser wrote: »

I wouldn't read too much in to that. Those 2000 people didn't just turn up for the Dublin match. There was an almighty effort behind the scenes to round up that crowd.

There was an almighty effort behind the scenes to round up the crowd?? Care to elaborate??

teednab-el wrote: »

The 09 panel are traitors to the county...

I think this comment sums up your inept knowledge of the game far greater than any rebuttal that I could field...

teednab-el wrote: »

afterall it was only for the present situation that they were ever going to make the team.

Actually no, a few of them would have undoubtedly been future Cork seniors...

teednab-el wrote: »

If these players had any respect for the 08 panel they should just simply refuse to play. Come on like, they are not even senior standard...their best isnt good enough for Cork hurling ..they know that themselves for heavens sake. And they are representing our county for all the wrong reasons. They are an embarrassment to Cork hurling along with Ger Mac and the CCB.

I hope for your sake that your trolling and this isn't a true reflection of your personality and attitude...

buck65 wrote: »

3. Gerald Mc Carthy is a tramp. He is petty , insulting, hypocritical, manipulative. These players he ha insulted repeatedly have achieved more for Cork hurling than he ever did.

As anyone working around and about his shop in town will tell you, Ger Mac is not a tramp, he is in fact an absolute gentleman, and for you to be accusing someone of being insulting is in my humble opinion a little rich considering your post. And as for the players having achieved more than Ger; well that is the most uninformed statement I have heard in a long time. Perhaps you should read a few history books on our fine Association...

I dunno lads, this thread has lost any sense whatsoever. The usual suspects are still here making good points for both sides of the argument, but the numbers popping in here and there to sling a bit of mud is making me think that maybe this entire thread has run its course...

teednab-el · 16-02-2009 02:09AM

evil-monkey wrote: »

Actually no, a few of them would have undoubtedly been future Cork seniors...

lol you say i have an inept knowledge of hurling and thats the statement you bring up? Do you know how many All Irelands Cork have won and how high the quality of hurling is in the county? And Do you know that the 09 panel were beaten by 12 points last night and by 9 points the week before? future stars?...not one of them would make Corks 2nd team. ffs

evil-monkey wrote: »

As anyone working around and about his shop in town will tell you, Ger Mac is not a tramp, he is in fact an absolute gentleman, and for you to be accusing someone of being insulting is in my humble opinion a little rich considering your post.

If he was a gentleman he would just step down like the Offaly manager..and that says enough about Ger to be honest.

evil-monkey wrote: »

I dunno lads, this thread has lost any sense whatsoever. The usual suspects are still here making good points for both sides of the argument, but the numbers popping in here and there to sling a bit of mud is making me think that maybe this entire thread has run its course...

Everyone here is entitled to state their views.. and that should not be any concern of yours.

aidan24326 · 16-02-2009 11:19AM

evil-monkey wrote: »

IAs anyone working around and about his shop in town will tell you, Ger Mac is not a tramp, he is in fact an absolute gentleman

Not knowing that much about the man personally I will take your word that he is a gentleman. However his stubborness is making a bad situation worse. Were he to do the decent thing (imo) and step down there would at least be some chance of a resolution to all of this. As things stand Cork are going to head into this year's championship with no better than a second string team and that devalues the entire competition.

Daysha · 16-02-2009 02:51PM

teednab-el wrote: »

lol you say i have an inept knowledge of hurling and thats the statement you bring up? Do you know how many All Irelands Cork have won and how high the quality of hurling is in the county? And Do you know that the 09 panel were beaten by 12 points last night and by 9 points the week before? future stars?...not one of them would make Corks 2nd team. ffs

Even if the 08 panel come back, they can't go on forever. Some of them will be too old to play on in 2-3 years anyway. What would've happened then? More new young players will start breaking through the ranks. Thats how it works. And while I don't know the players themselves, I have no doubt in my mind that some of them do have the ability to play at a high level once they get the right experience.

You speak as if there will never be another great Cork team again. Of course that won't happen. It may take a few years, but eventually Cork will once again start reproducing fantastic players like they have done throughout the years. It won't be doom and gloom forever!

teednab-el wrote: »

If he was a gentleman he would just step down like the Offaly manager..and that says enough about Ger to be honest.

Everyone here is entitled to state their views.. and that should not be any concern of yours.

Since when does holding strong on your own beliefs make you such an unlikeable character? Like you say yourself, everyone is entitled to state their views. Just because you don't agree with what he's doing doesn't make him any less of a gentleman then you are.

Cork Hurling Manager?

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