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garda methods- judge carney

124

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    Course it also leads to hate . . .



    (fear to anger to hate)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Morlar wrote: »
    Course it also leads to hate . . .



    (fear to anger to hate)

    YEP, I made that point too. Some eejits will always hate the Guards regardless of fairness or not, others if treated unfairly, will then resent the Guards.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 15 HercHauk


    Nehaxak wrote: »

    1) Provide enough resources, training, manpower, increase in wages and support for the Garda.

    2) Provide an independant police complaints commission (similar to what's been done up the North) with serious powers who can intervene and take the actions required if ever needed.

    3) Increase help and support mechanisms available for drug users/abusers.

    There's 3 for a start anyway.

    1) Spot On

    2) Sorry but that is a laughable concept. Every Scrote a Garda looks at will file a complaint. I can see the headlines now
    "Garda Under Investagtion for Smiling at Convicted Drug Dealer."

    I wont even comment on the third one.DONT DO DRUG's END OF THE STORY SIMPLE AS.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    HercHauk wrote: »
    1) Spot On

    2) Sorry but that is a laughable concept. Every Scrote a Garda looks at will file a complaint. I can see the headlines now
    "Garda Under Investagtion for Smiling at Convicted Drug Dealer."

    I wont even comment on the third one.DONT DO DRUG's END OF THE STORY SIMPLE AS.

    No. 3 is the starting point!! Drug addicts exist. You can either help them or ignore them and wait until after they commit a crime. A person with an addiction looking desperately for a fix does not think of consequences.

    AFAIK, there already is a Gardai complaints committee.

    Nethaxak and I have had our Barneys here, but I'm with him 100% on these ones.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 15 HercHauk


    Ikky Poo2 wrote: »
    No. 3 is the starting point!! Drug addicts exist. You can either help them or ignore them and wait until after they commit a crime. A person with an addiction looking desperately for a fix does not think of consequences.

    AFAIK, there already is a Gardai complaints committee.

    Nethaxak and I have had our Barneys here, but I'm with him 100% on these ones.

    I belive we need treatment, but the addicts must be 100% committed to these programmes. I have family members hooked on the stuff, maybe that's were the zero tolerence comes from, but they have to want to change......


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    HercHauk wrote: »
    I belive we need treatment, but the addicts must be 100% committed to these programmes. I have family members hooked on the stuff, maybe that's were the zero tolerence comes from, but they have to want to change......

    This is, of course, correct. But there's no point in them wanting to change if there's no help available. Using fear and zero tolerance won't help them kick the habit.

    Zero tolerance is just a euphamism for "I couldn't be bothered trying to understand the problem."

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19 Straighttalker


    after reading through the whole thread. seems to have gone a bit off topic. it also appears to me that any thread involving An Garda Siochana encourages a certain type of person who enjoy garda bashing and use any excuse.

    In my opinion AGS should not have carte blanche to beat people up, no matter what sort of person they are. also if a garda treats people with respect, it tends to get better results, ie information etc.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    after reading through the whole thread. seems to have gone a bit off topic....

    Maybe if there was more input from yourself earlier...? :rolleyes:

    Old thread now done to death!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,717 ✭✭✭Nehaxak


    Over the weekend here in Ballymun the Garda raided a (now this is what they called it...) "Crack house" (was actually a flat). Over 30 people were arrested, including kids as young as 13, strung out of their heads on crack cocaine.

    Why they acted now I don't know and why it's being kept out of the press I don't know either but I can only guess it's because they don't want it publicly known that crack cocaine is taking a hold in replacement of Heroin, more bad press for the government and all that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,257 ✭✭✭SoupyNorman


    Nehaxak wrote: »
    Over the weekend here in Ballymun the Garda raided a (now this is what they called it...) "Crack house" (was actually a flat). Over 30 people were arrested, including kids as young as 13, strung out of their heads on crack cocaine.

    Why they acted now I don't know and why it's being kept out of the press I don't know either but I can only guess it's because they don't want it publicly known that crack cocaine is taking a hold in replacement of Heroin, more bad press for the government and all that.


    The burden of proof is on the guards, its an arse about face system. I'm happy with the performance with the guards but its the legislation thats flowing against them.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Sofiztikated


    Now this is a topic worth a good rant, shame I can't think of much just at the moment.

    Why should it all come down to the Gardai? Why are they the ones that have to fix all our problems?

    Parents should have a role in disciplining their own children, and I don't just mean the ones growing up now. If they did that, and not this softly kid glove ****, they may grow up behaving a bit better.

    Having said that, I'm not a glowing saint, yes, I have done silly things that are against the law. Do I respect the Gardai? Yes, more or less. I respect what they are supposed to do. Am i repectable and polite to them? Yes. But I do have less respect for certain ones in the locality as they are a bunch of wasters.

    Would Gardai giving some young thug a clout for doing something wrong put him on a path to right and civility? Not any more. The country has gone too far past that. Now he would just knife the Garda, or hold a grudge and "get him again."

    What we need to do is help the Gardai! Lack of funding, as mentioned, lack of respect which is what this thread "was" about, and lack of support is crippling them.

    Whats the point in them killing themselves catching Anto the granny killing drug dealing career criminal if the sentencing system lets them out in 9 months, with 3 months suspended, and early release if he doesn't hurt anyone? Sentence the people they catch, and make the sentence stick. Don't let people of on a technicality. So what if he shot someone point blank in the face, if technically they said he was wearing a black jumper and he was wearing a navy one.

    They've had their funding cut. Great. We have a country going downhill, crime going up, and the ones doing their best to stem the tide have even less resources to do their job. Course I can see the sense there. Ok, I will assume some has been misspent, as all moneys have been in the last 15 years, but christ, give them what they need.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,268 ✭✭✭mountainyman


    dvpower wrote: »
    The family of Josie Dwyer might disagree.
    http://www.rte.ie/news/1999/1207/dwyer.html


    Excerpts:
    "John Fitzpatrick from Fatima Mansions, has been jailed for seven and a half years for the manslaughter of drug addict Josie Dwyer. "
    ...
    "John Fitzpatrick and Mark Cooke were both members of a concerned parents group in the Dolphin's barn area of Dublin"
    ...
    "Judge Dominic Lynch jailed him for seven and a half years, and he received a two-year concurrent sentence for violent disorder. After the hearing, Mr Fitzpatrick shouted "up the concerned parents". "

    The hand of the law smacks down anyone who stands up to criminal scum. Josie Dwyer sold heroin. The men who killed him were right to kill him.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,717 ✭✭✭Nehaxak


    Josie Dwyer was a junky who dealt on a very small level to feed his habit.
    Hardly a hardened drug pusher :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 159 ✭✭LaMer


    Its all well and good to say that, and it works in theory. But what about people police pick up mistakenly? For example in a fight, pretty hard to determine who's the aggressive party, can't just beat the tar out of both.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,683 ✭✭✭Zynks


    I have very good experiences with the guards (except for one case of a drunk driving guard in civilian clothes who threatened me). I mostly find them respectful and dedicated. When I needed them because of a break-in, stolen car or to report an accident the follow up was always spot on.

    When my mother in law was held by two guys that broke into her house and held her for several hours, the follow up to catch the guys and the way they were supportive to her for weeks after was seriously good.

    On another occasion I suspect that when they caught the guys that broke into my house and stole my motorbike, the guards had to be very "persuasive" to find out who the bike was passed on to because it was a pretty nasty gang that used it to rob a couple of banks and they were scared to tell (I am glad they got a good shaking).

    So, overall, I have a lot of respect for the guards. I think it might be a two way thing...

    There seems to be some consensus that drugs are one of the main problems for the gardai and the public. At the bottom of this problem are two drivers: the addicts "need to get it at any cost" and the dealers want for the profit this need generates.

    Solution: give the drugs to anyone clinically diagnosed as addicted for free (they actually cost very little). Dealers run out of profit sources, addicts don't need to commit crimes to fund their habit.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar



    Do you have anything at all to indicate he died from being assaulted by Gardai ? Could he not just have been ill to begin with or say for example chronically drunk (which would also explain his being arrested on public order offences) ?

    I could just as easily post a link to the lithuanian-crowbar wielding rape-gang and say here is what happens when we no longer have Judge Carney's gardai crime prevention common sense approach dont you think ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 474 ✭✭Relevant




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 497 ✭✭znv6i3h7kqf9ys


    My opinion is that this looks a bit sus. Better wait on the facts though. I'd love to see some stats on the amount of people who get drunk and go home for a sleep and don't wake up versus the amount of people that get taken in to a Garda station for being intoxicated go for a sleep and never wake up. From your previous posts I'd say you are a member of AGS so I'll be careful. But correct me if I am wrong when I say that if the only witnesses in these kinds of incidents are Gardai the only "facts" available to the ombudsman would be Garda statements? Now don't get me wrong Gardai do tough work and have to deal with social scum all the time which can't be easy. But like any organisation there are bad apples........ only trouble is they will always stick together.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 497 ✭✭znv6i3h7kqf9ys


    All quiet now


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,438 ✭✭✭Daroxtar


    I'm sure we'll have the usual mouthpieces and scumbags ranting on here about how the gards are gobsh!tes but the fact is they do the best they can. IMO 99% of gards are decent normal people just trying to do a thankless job and 99% of people who abuse them are the kind of dirty parasitic scumbag wasters that the community can do without.

    Judge carney might have praised the likes of Lugs but how many times has a gard arrested someone, spent countless hours compiling evidence and then had some limp wet fuk of a judge give a suspended sentence or small fine when the perp deserves years behind bars? You may as well just throw it all back in the gards face. But wait, you cant get rid of a sh!t judge, You cant even have them removed if they're a peadophile. They even get to keep their pensions.

    Or what about lawyers that get dirtbirds off because of a spelling mistake or something similar even though there is a mountain of evidence? Or play down the crime to the last to get lesser sentences. These lawyers are in effect covering up crimes and should be jailed themselves.

    Then we get the "poor me" stories about broken homes and substance abuse, disadvantaged areas etc etc ad nauseum.

    B OLLOX.

    Plenty of people come from broken homes, plenty come from disadvantaged areas and plenty use/abuse whatever they use but only filthy fkn scum commit crimes against the rest of us.

    And as for this case in navan being more methods?? methods of what?? someone gets slaughtered drunk in the middle of a working day and dies of suspected alcohol poisoning in police custody and the gards are to blame??? what about the cnt of a barman who kept serving him? or was he a victim of the system too? If he died on the street would you blame the county council? no , wait, you'd blame the traffic cops.

    The problem with the law in this country isn't the gards , its sh!te judges, corrupt lawyers and above all the PC brigade that sympathise with scum and make sure that they get their own fkng pathetic ideals set down for the rest of us to abide by. They make sure that the scum never have to take responsibilty for their actions.:mad::mad::mad::mad:

    End of rant


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    My opinion is that this looks a bit sus.

    Your opinion doesnt seem to be based on anything more than prejudice.
    Better wait on the facts though.

    It sounds like you have changed your mind here.
    I'd love to see some stats on the amount of people who get drunk and go home for a sleep and don't wake up versus the amount of people that get taken in to a Garda station for being intoxicated go for a sleep and never wake up.

    You would not be comparing like for like. Those statistics would prove nothing whatsoever.

    You are assuming that a person being arrested for being drunk and disorderly (who could well be on a cocktail of dangerous substances in dangerous levels/combinations) should have the very same nightly survival rate as . . . . say a 52 yr old man and his wife who have 4 pints of guinness on a sunday night at a leisurely pace. They then go home without say . .. . . getting into a fight on the way. Bearing in mind that they would be going home to their home not to a strange location that they would be unaccustomed /uncomfortable in.
    But correct me if I am wrong when I say that if the only witnesses in these kinds of incidents are Gardai the only "facts" available to the ombudsman would be Garda statements?

    What other sober witnesses would you have expect to be in a Garda station at say 4-5 am ? If there is any video evidence I am sure they will get to it. Reading this seems to have no point except to reflect your general level of suspicion of the Gardai.
    Now don't get me wrong Gardai do tough work and have to deal with social scum all the time which can't be easy. But like any organisation there are bad apples........ only trouble is they will always stick together.

    All you are doing there is stating the obvious and trying to make a connection to your assertion that there was some kind of foul play in this example. Until the facts are known it's pure fantasy.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 497 ✭✭znv6i3h7kqf9ys


    Do you have anything at all to indicate he died from being assaulted by Gardai ? Could he not just have been ill to begin with or say for example chronically drunk (which would also explain his being arrested on public order offences) ?

    I could just as easily post a link to the lithuanian-crowbar wielding rape-gang and say here is what happens when we no longer have Judge Carney's gardai crime prevention common sense approach dont you think ?[/quote]

    Wow Molar a Gard wouldn't ask you that........... actually thats exactly what one would ask and how he would ask it. Judging by your fixation with the Nazi's in your other posts if you are a Guard I'd hate to be alone with you in a cell. The trouble is that the bad apples in AGS probably joined the force to live out some sick twisted fantasy of power. Like being a Nazi for example. I'm not expecting any member of AGS to own up on an internet forum to illegal activity but come on lets be real. Yes the people who get beaten up by Gardai probably have done something wrong, and Guards are human but eh behaviour breeds behavior. I respect the Guards as for the most part but there is evidence that alot are corrupt and bullying is rife in the force so the good ones will never do the right thing and come forward to root out the rot as it is not in their career interest. Chicken sh1ts.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 497 ✭✭znv6i3h7kqf9ys


    All you are doing there is stating the obvious and trying to make a connection to your assertion that there was some kind of foul play in this example. Until the facts are known it's pure fantasy.


    OK Molar nice disection. Learn how to do that in Templemore? Thanks for answering my question about Guards sticking together though(stating the obvious) And pure fantasy? no I don't think fantasy is the right word but I've already said I'd like to wait for the facts. Guess we will just have to wait for the evidence. Oh but that will all come from Guards who stick together like you said. Apples and all


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    Wow Molar a Gard wouldn't ask you that........... actually thats exactly what one would ask and how he would ask it.
    ?
    Judging by your fixation with the Nazi's in your other posts if you are a Guard I'd hate to be alone with you in a cell.

    I collect militaria & have an interest in History. Congratulations on finding the 'search users other posts' option.

    Why would you go searching through somones other posts anyway ? Are you that incapable of addressing the points made here that you need to find some kind of distraction? I have not searched through your other posts and have no intention of doing that. I'd rather address this discussion based on its merits - that makes more sense dont you think?
    The trouble is that the bad apples in AGS probably joined the force to live out some sick twisted fantasy of power.

    You seem to be basing this on your own fantasies.
    Like being a Nazi for example.

    You make a not very convincing argument there.
    I respect the Guards as for the most part but there is evidence that alot are corrupt and bullying is rife in the force so the good ones will never do the right thing and come forward to root out the rot as it is not in their career interest. Chicken sh1ts.

    What evidence of 'a lot' of corruption are you referring to? Define ' a lot'. while your there what evidence that bullying is 'rife' too ? You keep saying these things and seem to just expect everyone to believe you - sorry but you should try to post something to back these claims up.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    OK Molar nice disection. Learn how to do that in Templemore? Thanks for answering my question about Guards sticking together though(stating the obvious)

    I am not a member of An Garda Siochana.

    You are an idiot.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,061 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    Morlar wrote: »
    I am not a member of An Garda Siochana.

    You are an idiot.
    Banned.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,474 ✭✭✭jim o doom


    For anyone who thinks the Luggs approach is acceptable - should we not think of the relatively recent times may day riot? a good, pacifist friend of mine got CLOBBERED in the skull with a baton that time -

    and when he attempted to redress the situation through whatever body existed at the time for when gards were bold.. he was continuously monitored at this home and intimidated by the gards until he let it go.

    Is he a violent scumbag who deserveth the punishment meted out to him by the force or is he an unlucky protestor (one of many) involved in a protest gone wrong.

    We've all seen the bloody videos of gards slapping teenagers and girls and hippies at that mess. But no - it's acceptable, sure the gards would only ever attack those guilty..

    The gardai have the amazing ability to look into your mind and soul and KNOW if you are guilty and give you the appropriate punishment right?

    No actually; they are PEOPLE and as fallible as the rest of us.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭ArphaRima


    No citizen should be allowed to assault another. Ever. For any reason.
    In the course of their duties, Gardai may have to use force, yes. But to openly assault people on the streets because of what they think of them? F#ck that!

    I dont know about everyone else here, but if I was assaulted by anyone, including a garda, and felt there was no possibility of legal recourse, then I would be forced to find physical recourse... And I'm a middle class PAYE earner. Think what the professional scumbags would get up to!

    A spiral into chaos. The gardai should act professional, and within the law. The laws should be fair on all. They should protect the weak, and punish the criminals. I am not willing to live in a police state to achieve that. So that's where we find ourselves: finding a balance between liveability and security.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 497 ✭✭znv6i3h7kqf9ys


    Morlar wrote: »
    I am not a member of An Garda Siochana.

    You are an idiot.

    Now now no need to get emotional. We are only having a chat. I wouldn't expect you to admit it anyway. I am however sorry for shattering your illusion that Guards are all good but I might as well continue. Did you know that Santa Clause isn't real? nor the tooth fairy for that matter? Get real. OK I can accept that most Guards do a good job. As for evidence of corruption eh lets see....... Morris Tribunal..... that enough for you or does it not define alot. Like the drug shipments that come into this country only a small amount gets detected same goes for bent coppers.


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