garda methods- judge carney

Dark_lord_ire

i found it very interesting reading comments today from Justice Carney. I've always liked how he handled cases fair but firm and in resent comments he stated that ireland would not have the crime levels we have now if we had more lugs branigans to deal with criminals.

In case nobody knows james "lugs" branigan was a garda in dublin during the 60's and 70's famous in garda circles. He was a big strong man who would give any mouthy thugs a few slaps and send him home rather than clog up the courts. i'm being very general there lol but he had huge respect in the city from everyone.

Justice Carney also stated that in todays "PC" world he could not exsist and the would keep the ombusman very busy with complaints(actually probably dismissed and fired). Today if a thug is arrested he can say what he wants to the garda such as threaten to kill him, his family etc and cant be touched. If that person is under 18 odds are they get just a caution and their abusive parents in next morning very angry that their sweet little angel was unfairly arrested. We see gangs in control, thugs stealing cars and violence on our streets each weekend. Agreed most if not all is parents fault.

Once upon a time a garda would smack someone across the back of the head all the way home to the parents and then the parents would smack them for bringing the guards to the door and also thanking and backing the guards for it.


my question is this has the law gone in the wrong direction too much giving the criminal too many rights. Would any here agree with bringing back the likes of lugs?

personally i would love to see the gardai being able to take harder action.

for everyones information here is the link to the article.

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/gardai-need-lugs-branigan-approach-to-cracking-crime-1617300.html

Rowley Birkin QC

Joe Duffy had a field day with this story aswell today.

Clip around the ear/broken leg or two for scumbags: Yes

For the rest of us : No.

Abortions for all.

minidazzler

Whatever happened to the big 6"4', Size 13 boot wearing, bacon and Cabbage eating, culchie Sh1tkicker guard? Really, what happened to them?

Look at guards nowadays, they are small and useless looking feckers, who wouldn't be too hard to hurt. Guards should put the fear of God into people, have them as Big Strong Authoritarian looking feckers, Give them a leech, but have enough slack on it to get the job done.

Smacking around a little cnut should not get a guard fired, as long as there are no Broken bones, they should get away with it.

I Want Lugs.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

If there was a Lugs around today, he'd be picked off by some teenage sucmbag with a shotgun.

If you want people fearing the police, how about we just put together an SS type force? There you go. Nought to Godwin's Law in four posts. Nowhere left to go now.

Br4tPr1nc3

well thats the thing....

you give criminals more rights as such, and they know it, and they mouth off and act the ar'se...
but on the other hand, you let garda go wild and give people a few smacks, but that then turns into a hiding, which turns into a serious beating for the fun of it.

and lets face it, a garda gives you a bad beating, and says you were doing something you werent, who are they gona believe.

the best way to solve the whole crime issue, is take a look at the prison system, and harsher punishment for lesser crimes:D

I'd agree that the Garda are a pretty useless group of people.

If the Garda can't get physical with your average criminal, then what does the criminal have to fear? he'd never be caught. If he gets caught by a guard all it takes is a headbutt to the face of the unsuspecting guard and the criminal is free again.

The guard will suffer, and when the criminal is caught, he'll get a slap on the wrist and told to cop on.


I know a girl that once literally bit into a guards' arm, and as a result he got hepatitis B from her. She's had a warrant out for her arrest for as long as i can remember, but she's still walking the streets freely. It's honestly as though the guards are afraid of her.


I still believe that the Garda have to be the least effective law enforcement unit in the world. They should be given nightsticks and told to use them sparingly when necesary.


I imagine that a good belt to the back of the head of your average scum bag would do more good than bad.

spurious

The tyranny of children.

'In my day' a young person was afraid to give cheek/be smart/abuse to ANY adult. It wasn't just left up to the guards.

Parenting FTW.

S.I.R

Dark_lord_ire wrote: »

i found it very interesting reading comments today from Justice Carney. I've always liked how he handled cases fair but firm and in resent comments he stated that ireland would not have the crime levels we have now if we had more lugs branigans to deal with criminals.

In case nobody knows james "lugs" branigan was a garda in dublin during the 60's and 70's famous in garda circles. He was a big strong man who would give any mouthy thugs a few slaps and send him home rather than clog up the courts. i'm being very general there lol but he had huge respect in the city from everyone.

Justice Carney also stated that in todays "PC" world he could not exsist and the would keep the ombusman very busy with complaints(actually probably dismissed and fired). Today if a thug is arrested he can say what he wants to the garda such as threaten to kill him, his family etc and cant be touched. If that person is under 18 odds are they get just a caution and their abusive parents in next morning very angry that their sweet little angel was unfairly arrested. We see gangs in control, thugs stealing cars and violence on our streets each weekend. Agreed most if not all is parents fault.

Once upon a time a garda would smack someone across the back of the head all the way home to the parents and then the parents would smack them for bringing the guards to the door and also thanking and backing the guards for it.


my question is this has the law gone in the wrong direction too much giving the criminal too many rights. Would any here agree with bringing back the likes of lugs?

personally i would love to see the gardai being able to take harder action.

for everyones information here is the link to the article.

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/gardai-need-lugs-branigan-approach-to-cracking-crime-1617300.html

the only times ive been arrested i got released as they had nothing on me, anytime i done something wrong i never got caught...

No gardi was genuinely stupid enough to man handle me or simular as the last one who did...


he didn't pass Go! and didn't get his 200 quid...

:rolleyes:

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

spurious wrote: »

The tyranny of children.

'In my day' a young person was afraid to give cheek/be smart/abuse to ANY adult. It wasn't just left up to the guards.

Parenting FTW.

Being afraid of and being respectful to are two completely different things...

KTRIC

1. Clip scumbags around the ear
2. ??????
3. Profit


I see how that works, great idea

spurious

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Being afraid of and being respectful to are two completely different things...

Yes agreed. I may have still been partly asleep. I was not afraid to shout abuse at an adult, but I absolutely knew what my parents would do if they suspected/heard/knew I did.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

spurious wrote: »

Yes agreed. I may have still been partly asleep. I was not afraid to shout abuse at an adult, but I absolutely knew what my parents would do if they suspected/heard/knew I did.

No, me neither. But I was nice to the adults I knew because they were nice people whom I respected. Not because someone stood behind me with a cricket bat and ordered me to.

The ones I didn't respect, I avoided or kept contact to a minimum.

Kernel

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd agree that the Garda are a pretty useless group of people.

Crime statistics and public opinion don't back up your opinion though.

Deleted User wrote: »

If the Garda can't get physical with your average criminal, then what does the criminal have to fear? he'd never be caught. If he gets caught by a guard all it takes is a headbutt to the face of the unsuspecting guard and the criminal is free again.

Guards cant get physical because of the system of protecting the criminal. As for your headbutt comment, you'd get caught, and get a nice sentence for such stupid behaviour.

Deleted User wrote: »

The guard will suffer, and when the criminal is caught, he'll get a slap on the wrist and told to cop on.

Nonsense.

Deleted User wrote: »

I know a girl that once literally bit into a guards' arm, and as a result he got hepatitis B from her. She's had a warrant out for her arrest for as long as i can remember, but she's still walking the streets freely. It's honestly as though the guards are afraid of her.

Lol. Nonsense. All Gardaí are vaccinated against Hep B, and tested, so I very much doubt this story. Or the arrest warrant story either. The Guards afraid of a girl yeah? :rolleyes: She gave a garda hep b and the garda, nor his colleagues bothered to press any charges for the fact that she assaulted him and gave him a life threatening illness? Get real will yas!

S.I.R wrote:

the only times ive been arrested i got released as they had nothing on me, anytime i done something wrong i never got caught...

No gardi was genuinely stupid enough to man handle me or simular as the last one who did...


he didn't pass Go! and didn't get his 200 quid...

You sound like one of these typical shams that has the country the kip it is. Congratulations big man. Why don't you elaborate on what you did when one tried to 'man handle' you? :rolleyes:

Fulton Crown

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

No, me neither. But I was nice to the adults I knew because they were nice people whom I respected. Not because someone stood behind me with a cricket bat and ordered me to

What if you was from the Northside an they has a Baseball Bat ?

S.I.R

Kernel wrote: »

Crime statistics and public opinion don't back up your opinion though.



Guards cant get physical because of the system of protecting the criminal. As for your headbutt comment, you'd get caught, and get a nice sentence for such stupid behaviour.



Nonsense.



Lol. Nonsense. All Gardaí are vaccinated against Hep B, and tested, so I very much doubt this story. Or the arrest warrant story either. The Guards afraid of a girl yeah? :rolleyes: She gave a garda hep b and the garda, nor his colleagues bothered to press any charges for the fact that she assaulted him and gave him a life threatening illness? Get real will yas!



You sound like one of these typical shams that has the country the kip it is. Congratulations big man. Why don't you elaborate on what you did when one tried to 'man handle' you? :rolleyes:

sitting outside a dart station waiting on mates to go to a gig...


searched and cuffed me ( a minor at the time... )

****ed head first in the back of the car...

got rushed to the station after a gardi eye ball by the gaf that got nicked beside the station


got out, seen several friends and my old boss who straight away said and i qoute " WTF !!!!!!...!!!...!!! "

took into the station where i was strip searched infront of most of the station ,then they went to cavity search...


and to think they though i robbed a gaf !!!

the bastards who owned the gaf agreed it was me !!

so after that they started making remarks to how " i was a filthy southside scumbag " and how " ill never amount to anything "

strangly...

after being released he said ( the guy who knicked me originally ) " if i see you in this area ill knick you again, but ill have my batton ready "

to which i replyed with " ill bringthe vasoline :rolleyes: "

and the fact that the stations 2 mins away fro mmy house... 5 steps south anjd im arrested ? Ghey.

now after tellin my old lad, and the brothers nobody was happy as you expect...


filed complaint after complaint, after 20 trys he got locked up for assult ( touching without permission... )


false arrest ( yes, 1 up baby. )

treatening misconduct

aswell as previous ****-ups not disclosed due to privacy.


Strangly enough that same night the gardi cars all got in traffic collions, the people who they hit never got caught but the cars where off the road for 3 weeks...


im happy i took the legal route, cause he might be still on the streets/in the job had i of worked other wise.


The system works


as for the robbed gaf, if i see that couple or any of their family...

Mini short version rant over.

too hung over to type the full version as it would be quite a bit of reading...

Mena

Hmm, a few years ago I would have thought this was the right way to go as well, beat the living crap out of the scumbags, but it just doesn't work. Where I'm from the cops would smack the crap out of the scummers, shoot them if necessary, without a seconds thought, and the place still has the highest murder rate in the world (last I checked).

We need another solution but I'm not particularly interested in winning a Nobel just yet and as such, don't have a well thought out solution. Beating the snot out of them however, very gratifying, won't solve the problem.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Fulton Crown wrote: »

What if you was from the Northside an they has a Baseball Bat ?

When I was growing up, the nearesgt baseball bat was in New York.

helimachoptor

Gardai are not near as intimidating as they once were.

I know a few.. One is a girl about 5 foot 3, I'm pretty sure my dog weighs more than her!

Another is a guy about 5" 7 and about the same around the waist!

Yet when I was growing up gardai were man mountains and if you gave them cheek you'd get a slap.

We are far to PC, bring back brannigan!

hobochris

bigkev49 wrote: »

Joe Duffy had a field day with this story aswell today.

Clip around the ear/broken leg or two for scumbags: Yes

For the rest of us : No.

Abortions for all.

That one thing that annoys me about the Irish working class culture is when people threaten to go to Joe Duffy about something. Whats the point? he'll have a talk on his show about it then the issue disappears from the public eye.

I mean the threat of Joe Duffy isn't just used when a gard arrests a criminal who accord to criminal is innocent but in everyday things, like for example I used to work in a well known furniture company, the way it worked is people signed a contract that when the furniture came in that they must take it in 7 days & when prompted about this once the furniture arrives there would be threats to go to Joe Duffy or the Adrian Kennedy phone show if we didn't hold onto the furniture for longer then the time that was contractually agreed.

If these threats where not made as a result of a layman's own stupidity & Society in general didn't have this "Screw you paddy, I'm doing OK" attitude (i.e. if they had a little more solidarity) then maybe this type of threat to go to the media would work but unfortunately this is Society attitude we all went along with and in turn it has tied the hands of the Garda behind their backs and made members of Society less accountable for their actions (I.e. no worry of come back for doing something wrong).

Sadly while we do nothing because it doesn't effect us directly and don't work together as a society the low life's in society(that are a bi product) can take advantage and their is nothing we can do until we are willing to change our own attitude.

Terry

KTRIC wrote: »

1. Clip scumbags around the ear
2. Scumbag realises this will continue to happen if he keeps screwing around
3. Profit (less tax payers money wasted on pointless court cases)


I see how that works, great idea

FYP.

minidazzler wrote: »

Whatever happened to the big 6"4', Size 13 boot wearing, bacon and Cabbage eating, culchie Sh1tkicker guard? Really, what happened to them?

Look at guards nowadays, they are small and useless looking feckers, who wouldn't be too hard to hurt. Guards should put the fear of God into people, have them as Big Strong Authoritarian looking feckers, Give them a leech, but have enough slack on it to get the job done.

Smacking around a little cnut should not get a guard fired, as long as there are no Broken bones, they should get away with it.

I Want Lugs.

When I was a teenager we didn't have a Garda station in Leixlip.
They sent out a cop from Lucan every weekend and he was one of those described above.
He was also an alcoholic and would just park the car, drink all night and then pass out.
We weren't exactly afraid of him.

After a couple of years they sent out two guys in an unmarked car and they didn't take crap from anyone.

My first encouter with them was when I was standing beside a friend of mine and he had another guy by the scruff of the next.
I saw someone hit my friend out of the corner of my drunken eye and instinctively threw a punch (not that it would have done much damage. I was about 10 stone and at twice that weight now, I still can't fight to save my life).

Turns out I had just hit a cop.

Garda A then proceeded to give me a swift kick in the nuts.
Garda B gave my friend a black eye.
Garda A gave the other guy a black eye.
Garda B came over and asked what was wrong with me, as I was bent over clutching my nuts. I told him that Garda A had kicked me in the nuts.
"Is that right?", said Garda B. "Hey, Garda A, he said you kicked him in the nuts."
Garda A came back over and kicked me in the nuts again.

They then took our names and addresses and told us they were there to clean up Leixlip.
They sent what looked like school reports to our parents' (a page with a list of offences on it with boxes beside them.) and I can honestly say that we stopped ****ing around after that.

I say the Gardaí should be allowed to kick the crap out of anyone causing trouble. It worked for me.

Countermoon

julep wrote: »

FYP.

Final Year Project?

IvySlayer

julep wrote: »

FYP.




When I was a teenager we didn't have a Garda station in Leixlip.
They sent out a cop from Lucan every weekend and he was one of those described above.
He was also an alcoholic and would just park the car, drink all night and then pass out.
We weren't exactly afraid of him.

After a couple of years they sent out two guys in an unmarked car and they didn't take crap from anyone.

My first encouter with them was when I was standing beside a friend of mine and he had another guy by the scruff of the next.
I saw someone hit my friend out of the corner of my drunken eye and instinctively threw a punch (not that it would have done much damage. I was about 10 stone and at twice that weight now, I still can't fight to save my life).

Turns out I had just hit a cop.

Garda A then proceeded to give me a swift kick in the nuts.
Garda B gave my friend a black eye.
Garda A gave the other guy a black eye.
Garda B came over and asked what was wrong with me, as I was bent over clutching my nuts. I told him that Garda A had kicked me in the nuts.
"Is that right?", said Garda B. "Hey, Garda A, he said you kicked him in the nuts."
Garda A came back over and kicked me in the nuts again.

They then took our names and addresses and told us they were there to clean up Leixlip.
They sent what looked like school reports to our parents' (a page with a list of offences on it with boxes beside them.) and I can honestly say that we stopped ****ing around after that.

I say the Gardaí should be allowed to kick the crap out of anyone causing trouble. It worked for me.

Agreed, but not with that force. Garada can't even use their bats, if they do, they'd end up in court.

Seriously, if a loads of scumbags think they are tough and going around the estate thinking their the bee knees and take **** from no-one, I would love for a Garda riot squad to be rough with them. That'll put some manners on them. It would defintely be more beneficial than a judge handing down a 2 months suspended sentence with them being released early for 'good behaviour'

'Did you beat anyone up today Deco?'
'No, boss'
'Well done! You're realeased!'

Jumpy

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

If there was a Lugs around today, he'd be picked off by some teenage sucmbag with a shotgun.

If you want people fearing the police, how about we just put together an SS type force? There you go. Nought to Godwin's Law in four posts. Nowhere left to go now.

Godwins law is not viable if the poster knows about it when he posts a Nazi reference.
Especially if he quotes it in the same post.

Null and Void *stamps*

Chucky the tree

I think judges should spend more time reviewing their cases in which they handed out extremely short sentences rather then reminiscing about the good old days where guards beat people up instead bringing them to court so judges had less work to do.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Jumpy wrote: »

Godwins law is not viable if the poster knows about it when he posts a Nazi reference.
Especially if he quotes it in the same post.

Null and Void *stamps*

Really? Did not know that. I mnetioned it mainly to save someone else surfing in and pointing it out and trying to make me look like some mindless subversive.

Wagon

I thought Lugs was a real polite gentleman when it came to old people, and beat the bollocks off anyone who did anything wrong and looked young? Or maybe he beat up old people too....we need guards like him though.

But back in Lugs day was a little different. Civilians could excersise the law more if it meant to protecting themselves. For example, take the flats in Dolphin's barn. A pair of scumbags beat up a teenager when he's walking home. The kid gets home, lets his parents know and who the lads were. Then the father and a group of lads go out, find the two little ****s that did it and give them a good hiding and that's the end of it. It puts those two little bastards in their place. It's not mob rule either, it's more looking out for each other.

However, if that were to happen today there would be holy war. The parent and whoever else was involved would be locked up, the two teenagers would be warned not to attack anyone and they get away with it. The problem is the law is too bloody lenient and protects these little bastards. SO if i heard the news that a gang of them got the living **** kicked out of them for robbing a car or hurting someone, I'd have no sympathy.

dats_right

One of my pet hates is poor journalism! The reporting of what the Judge said by the Herald is more what the journo wanted him to say and thought would sell more copies than what Carney actually said or meant. For an accurate report see http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0128/1232923370128.html

Essentially, it is quite clear that rather than harping back to the old days Carney was in fact actually getting the point accross that nowadays criminal trials don't have as a feature as many ""confessions"" from the accused in custody written in Garda speak, apparently written by said accused.

He is referring to the phenomenon, that it has always been a wonder for judiciary and lawyers alike why in the past seemingly so many accused people in Garda custody, especially those with vast experiences of the criminal justice system, would surprisingly volunteer or offer up confessions when they knew that there was no other evidence linking them to the crime and that the only way a conviction could be secured against themselves would be by them admitting to the crime. Also equally remarkably a lot of these confessions seemed to be written in the common vernacular of members of the An Garda Siochana or Templemorease as it is commonly known, rather than in the usual choice of words that one would expect from such an accused. Not surprisingly, very, very many of these so-called 'voluntary' confessions were later very strenously denied as ever having been made by the accused and Mr Garda in evidence at trial would then swear that said accused, in best Templemorease, held his hands up and sang like a canary...

Obviously very serious questions about the legitimacy of these statements or confessions used to make up a very large part of the criminal trial, whereas nowadays "it may be that a fundamental decency which has always been there has reasserted itself in the guards and this is worth recording and acknowledging" i.e. An Garda Siochana no longer fabricate or beat confessions out of people.

Dark_lord_ire

Wagon wrote: »

I thought Lugs was a real polite gentleman when it came to old people, and beat the bollocks off anyone who did anything wrong and looked young? Or maybe he beat up old people too....we need guards like him though.

from what i'm hearing he was a gent and loved by the community

Br4tPr1nc3 wrote: »

well thats the thing....

you give criminals more rights as such, and they know it, and they mouth off and act the ar'se...
but on the other hand, you let garda go wild and give people a few smacks, but that then turns into a hiding, which turns into a serious beating for the fun of it.

and lets face it, a garda gives you a bad beating, and says you were doing something you werent, who are they gona believe.

the best way to solve the whole crime issue, is take a look at the prison system, and harsher punishment for lesser crimes:D

hows about video recording in cars and stations, like what they have state-side at least then we could see the abuse the garda get and could all enjoy the kicking the snot out of the thugs lol but would also insure it did not get out of hand. Mind you look at that little towrag rossitor from clonmel, not touched by the guards, family refused to take him home after arrest allow him at 14 to go fight get drunk do drugs and 2 be a thug he dies and the guards are blamed.

Mena wrote: »

Hmm, a few years ago I would have thought this was the right way to go as well, beat the living crap out of the scumbags, but it just doesn't work. Where I'm from the cops would smack the crap out of the scummers, shoot them if necessary, without a seconds thought, and the place still has the highest murder rate in the world (last I checked).

We need another solution but I'm not particularly interested in winning a Nobel just yet and as such, don't have a well thought out solution. Beating the snot out of them however, very gratifying, won't solve the problem.

i think kicking the ass off them would work at an early age when they are being influanced. scare them into an honest life. thats whats lacking in crinimals there parents either were alcoholics or just never clipped the when needed

helimachoptor wrote: »

Gardai are not near as intimidating as they once were.

I know a few.. One is a girl about 5 foot 3, I'm pretty sure my dog weighs more than her!

Another is a guy about 5" 7 and about the same around the waist!

Yet when I was growing up gardai were man mountains and if you gave them cheek you'd get a slap.

We are far to PC, bring back brannigan!

lol i saw one girl honestly had to be 5ft if even. Its wrong the got rid of min height that was there for a reason. The big guys still join but so regulated now they cant do much

IvySlayer wrote: »

Agreed, but not with that force. Garada can't even use their bats, if they do, they'd end up in court.

Seriously, if a loads of scumbags think they are tough and going around the estate thinking their the bee knees and take **** from no-one, I would love for a Garda riot squad to be rough with them. That'll put some manners on them. It would defintely be more beneficial than a judge handing down a 2 months suspended sentence with them being released early for 'good behaviour'

'Did you beat anyone up today Deco?'
'No, boss'
'Well done! You're realeased!'

agreed lol

Dark_lord_ire

dats_right wrote: »

One of my pet hates is poor journalism! The reporting of what the Judge said by the Herald is more what the journo wanted him to say and thought would sell more copies than what Carney actually said or meant. For an accurate report see http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0128/1232923370128.html

Essentially, it is quite clear that rather than harping back to the old days Carney was in fact actually getting the point accross that nowadays criminal trials don't have as a feature as many ""confessions"" from the accused in custody written in Garda speak, apparently written by said accused.

He is referring to the phenomenon, that it has always been a wonder for judiciary and lawyers alike why in the past seemingly so many accused people in Garda custody, especially those with vast experiences of the criminal justice system, would surprisingly volunteer or offer up confessions when they knew that there was no other evidence linking them to the crime and that the only way a conviction could be secured against themselves would be by them admitting to the crime. Also equally remarkably a lot of these confessions seemed to be written in the common vernacular of members of the An Garda Siochana or Templemorease as it is commonly known, rather than in the usual choice of words that one would expect from such an accused. Not surprisingly, very, very many of these so-called 'voluntary' confessions were later very strenously denied as ever having been made by the accused and Mr Garda in evidence at trial would then swear that said accused, in best Templemorease, held his hands up and sang like a canary...

Obviously very serious questions about the legitimacy of these statements or confessions used to make up a very large part of the criminal trial, whereas nowadays "it may be that a fundamental decency which has always been there has reasserted itself in the guards and this is worth recording and acknowledging" i.e. An Garda Siochana no longer fabricate or beat confessions out of people.

yes but he did talk about lugs saying how he was respected by all. Noone wants to see lads scum or not take the fall for something they did not do.

But think about this your grandparents lovely people live on their own. House broken into one night they are assaulted so badly they end up in hospital bloodied and battered, the things they loved and collected over a lifetime taken from them. It then comes to light that a well known traveller crinimal was in the area that night and got arrested breaking into another house on the same road only minutes later wearing gloves and hood. Wont admit to the other crime on your grandparents and the guards have no proof and no real evidence to tie him to the very serioius crime. Oh and all the grandparents saw was fists coming at them

So what do you do??? DPP wont prosecute with lack of evidence.

Holsten

This Judge still hands out joke after joke of sentences to people. I agree 100% though, the Gardaí should be able to crack a few heads if it's needed.

That combined with harsher punishment might get some form of message accross, as nothing is working at the minute.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Dark_lord_ire wrote: »

Would any here agree with bringing back the likes of lugs?

When I was a young teen my self and some mates where walking from Ballymun through Glasnevin on our way to The Botanic Gardens.

Just past The Lady of Victories church we were picked up, put into the Garda car and literally had the **** kicked out of us.

We were guilty of being from Ballymun walking through Glasnevin & nothing else.

So no, I'd rather not see bully's like Lugs Brannigan and his ilk again.

I also believe AGS actions, and sometimes lack off, are responsible for big brother looking over their shoulders.

.

Terry

dats_right wrote: »

One of my pet hates is poor journalism! The reporting of what the Judge said by the Herald is more what the journo wanted him to say and thought would sell more copies than what Carney actually said or meant. For an accurate report see http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0128/1232923370128.html

Essentially, it is quite clear that rather than harping back to the old days Carney was in fact actually getting the point accross that nowadays criminal trials don't have as a feature as many ""confessions"" from the accused in custody written in Garda speak, apparently written by said accused.

He is referring to the phenomenon, that it has always been a wonder for judiciary and lawyers alike why in the past seemingly so many accused people in Garda custody, especially those with vast experiences of the criminal justice system, would surprisingly volunteer or offer up confessions when they knew that there was no other evidence linking them to the crime and that the only way a conviction could be secured against themselves would be by them admitting to the crime. Also equally remarkably a lot of these confessions seemed to be written in the common vernacular of members of the An Garda Siochana or Templemorease as it is commonly known, rather than in the usual choice of words that one would expect from such an accused. Not surprisingly, very, very many of these so-called 'voluntary' confessions were later very strenously denied as ever having been made by the accused and Mr Garda in evidence at trial would then swear that said accused, in best Templemorease, held his hands up and sang like a canary...

Obviously very serious questions about the legitimacy of these statements or confessions used to make up a very large part of the criminal trial, whereas nowadays "it may be that a fundamental decency which has always been there has reasserted itself in the guards and this is worth recording and acknowledging" i.e. An Garda Siochana no longer fabricate or beat confessions out of people.

Yeah, but the herald version of events is better.

Nehaxak

Lugs was nothing more than a bully and a thug, sure it's great to hear stories of some oldskool robocop thumping fella's around and comitting what amounts to nothing more than common scumbag assault. Upholding the law has nothing and should have nothing to lowering yourself to the same level and bending the law to suit your own thuggish behaviour.

For those of you that think it's great stuff to hear, I've seen it firsthand from another well known robocop the same as Lugs called "Puddings".
Puddings used to catch guys, for whatever they were doing and some things were really bad but instead of locking them up he'd give them a choice - fight him and leave it at that or get taken to the station and deal with it through the courts. Now Puddings was a big fella, huge big guy, built like a tank and he hit like one too. Still, most lads that were caught by him would take the beating rather than end up in court and more than likely on to the Joy or Pats.
Let me tell you about a young lad, no older than 17 at the time - this lad was just walking down the street minding his own business when a couple of robocops jump out of their car and start pushing him around for no reason. Then the great Mr Puddings hopped out and took off his jacket, showing off to his robocop friends. Young lad is stood there still not knowing wtf is going on or wtf he was meant to have done when the great Puddings hits him an almigthy punch in the face, to great cheers and applause from his "comrades" around him. Now, that young lad eventually got up off the ground and instead of thinking "oh well, sure I probably deserved it, ah sure I'll be a good little fella for the rest of my days in case anything like that ever happens again to me for no reason" - no no, instead of that he rebelled, as did his friends, as did most of his whole area where he lived and as did the surrounding area's.
Let me tell you, from that day onward, there was not an ounce of respect given to any cop. That young lad from that day forward and all of his friends and everyone else around him had nothing but hatred for cops, absolute total and utter hatred. I will not do into what that young lad did to rebel against what he saw as nothing but bullies/thugs/pigs but he spent most of his youth doing everything he could to get back at them.
All of that, all of it because of one single scumbag thug cop who was everything about his thuggery and bullying and NOTHING about upholding the law.
So yeah, Lugs/Puddings/Robocop can all suck my balls - they are nothing but common thugs/bullies and deserve no respect, scumbag thugs is all they were and all they ever will be and they bring bad blood and dishonour to the Gardai, couple of really bad apples ruining it for those in the Garda who actually are doing a great job and doing their best to uphold the law while maintaining their integrity and professionalism.

Biggins

Nehaxak wrote: »

Lugs was nothing more than a bully... blaa blaa blaa...
recite unproven yarn blaa blaa blaa...

Even if that yarn was true, let me see, a scumbag that brakes the law daily, that might rob young and old of their pensions and saving books, beat them up and destroy their property, got beaten up. And you want sympathy for him and incite more hatred for the Gardi?

Na, nope, sorry - I frankly don't care if the scumbags get the living schite kicked out of them from one end of the week to the next.

I have four kids and if they ever turn out to be of the same calibre scumbag mentality, I'll hand them over to the Gardi to get the crap kicked out of them - when I am finished with them!

Have you any more fanciful yarns?

Blazer

S.I.R wrote: »

sitting outside a dart station waiting on mates to go to a gig...


searched and cuffed me ( a minor at the time... )

****ed head first in the back of the car...

got rushed to the station after a gardi eye ball by the gaf that got nicked beside the station


got out, seen several friends and my old boss who straight away said and i qoute " WTF !!!!!!...!!!...!!! "

took into the station where i was strip searched infront of most of the station ,then they went to cavity search...


and to think they though i robbed a gaf !!!

the bastards who owned the gaf agreed it was me !!

so after that they started making remarks to how " i was a filthy southside scumbag " and how " ill never amount to anything "

strangly...

after being released he said ( the guy who knicked me originally ) " if i see you in this area ill knick you again, but ill have my batton ready "

to which i replyed with " ill bringthe vasoline :rolleyes: "

and the fact that the stations 2 mins away fro mmy house... 5 steps south anjd im arrested ? Ghey.

now after tellin my old lad, and the brothers nobody was happy as you expect...


filed complaint after complaint, after 20 trys he got locked up for assult ( touching without permission... )


false arrest ( yes, 1 up baby. )

treatening misconduct

aswell as previous ****-ups not disclosed due to privacy.


Strangly enough that same night the gardi cars all got in traffic collions, the people who they hit never got caught but the cars where off the road for 3 weeks...


im happy i took the legal route, cause he might be still on the streets/in the job had i of worked other wise.


The system works


as for the robbed gaf, if i see that couple or any of their family...

Mini short version rant over.

too hung over to type the full version as it would be quite a bit of reading...

I'm trying to make sense of it but I haven't fcukin clue what he's talking about especially towards the end...

daveharnett

Ben Franklin wrote: »

Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

QFT.
I would expect a judge to have more respect for the rule of law tbh. While criminal justice isn't perfect, Gene Hunt is a thing of the past, and rightly so.

Nehaxak

Biggins wrote: »

Even if that yarn was true, let me see, a scumbag that brakes the law daily, that might rob young and old of their pensions and saving books, beat them up and destroy their property, got beaten up. And you want sympathy for him and incite more hatred for the Gardi?

How about a young lad who did nothing wrong, never done anything wrong, was just walking down the street minding his own business. Might be one of your kids in the future, who knows, wonder would you feel the same way about them being beaten up by a thug cop for no reason.
You presume an awful lot, said young lad was actually on his way home from a long days work on a building site. Dunno where you're going with robbing pensioners and the like... :rolleyes:

Na, nope, sorry - I frankly don't care if the scumbags get the living schite kicked out of them from one end of the week to the next.

For what it matters, neither do I but I still think the law should be upheld and not be broken, especially by cops.

I have four kids and if they ever turn out to be of the same calibre scumbag mentality, I'll hand them over to the Gardi to get the crap kicked out of them - when I am finished with them!

Well if your kids turned out like that it'd be your fault as their parent so...

Have you any more fanciful yarns?

A horse walks into a bar...

Dark_lord_ire

Nehaxak wrote: »

Lugs was nothing more than a bully and a thug, sure it's great to hear stories of some oldskool robocop thumping fella's around and comitting what amounts to nothing more than common scumbag assault. Upholding the law has nothing and should have nothing to lowering yourself to the same level and bending the law to suit your own thuggish behaviour.

For those of you that think it's great stuff to hear, I've seen it firsthand from another well known robocop the same as Lugs called "Puddings".
Puddings used to catch guys, for whatever they were doing and some things were really bad but instead of locking them up he'd give them a choice - fight him and leave it at that or get taken to the station and deal with it through the courts. Now Puddings was a big fella, huge big guy, built like a tank and he hit like one too. Still, most lads that were caught by him would take the beating rather than end up in court and more than likely on to the Joy or Pats.
Let me tell you about a young lad, no older than 17 at the time - this lad was just walking down the street minding his own business when a couple of robocops jump out of their car and start pushing him around for no reason. Then the great Mr Puddings hopped out and took off his jacket, showing off to his robocop friends. Young lad is stood there still not knowing wtf is going on or wtf he was meant to have done when the great Puddings hits him an almigthy punch in the face, to great cheers and applause from his "comrades" around him. Now, that young lad eventually got up off the ground and instead of thinking "oh well, sure I probably deserved it, ah sure I'll be a good little fella for the rest of my days in case anything like that ever happens again to me for no reason" - no no, instead of that he rebelled, as did his friends, as did most of his whole area where he lived and as did the surrounding area's.
Let me tell you, from that day onward, there was not an ounce of respect given to any cop. That young lad from that day forward and all of his friends and everyone else around him had nothing but hatred for cops, absolute total and utter hatred. I will not do into what that young lad did to rebel against what he saw as nothing but bullies/thugs/pigs but he spent most of his youth doing everything he could to get back at them.
All of that, all of it because of one single scumbag thug cop who was everything about his thuggery and bullying and NOTHING about upholding the law.
So yeah, Lugs/Puddings/Robocop can all suck my balls - they are nothing but common thugs/bullies and deserve no respect, scumbag thugs is all they were and all they ever will be and they bring bad blood and dishonour to the Gardai, couple of really bad apples ruining it for those in the Garda who actually are doing a great job and doing their best to uphold the law while maintaining their integrity and professionalism.

Lugs was not a thug by any means and your attitude seems to be the same that has us in this mess. In almost any other country in the world police are hard here the police don't even have guns. We have it too good which is a bad thing no fear of police leads to civil unrest. We should not be arfaid of the police just the criminals should be

stovelid

In my day, you could leave your key in the door.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

18, drinking in a field in wexford. Garda approached me, asked my name, I gave him my first name, he slaped me in the face, chipped my tooth and said "don't be so smart, what's your full name?" I was never approached by a Garda before, didn't know how to deal with it. I said thanks for chipping my tooth and showed him the piece. His colleague apologised and gave me my cans back.

This is the way things should be done? I was drinking in a field ffs, not joyriding, murdering someone, or anything like that. How does a garda distinguish between a criminal and other?

Brother got a beating, not a slap, but a beating for underage drinking. Where's that Garda now? Well I know he's not on the force anymore. There was a court case, the Garda lost his job. Good enough for him, the scumbags....

We don't have a gun culture, the Garda have a unit that are able to carry guns.

The law should be there for everyone, not just the majority of people. The Garda are there to uphold the law, not to create it or make new laws. They cannot bend it to their will. How can any of you say that it's ok to hit a civilian?

Lug the thug... He was a thug, he is a scumbag. Just because the system is flawed doesn't mean it's ok to beat people up. The system needs to be fixed. If a garda hit me again, I know what i'd be doing.

sunnyside

Dark_lord_ire wrote: »

i
my question is this has the law gone in the wrong direction too much giving the criminal too many rights. ]

They aren't even criminals most of the time any more--they are "people suspected of commiting a criminal offence";)

arybvtcw0eolkf

Amiyah Fierce Jackass wrote: »

Lug the thug... He was a thug, he is a scumbag. Just because the system is flawed doesn't mean it's ok to beat people up. The system needs to be fixed. If a garda hit me again, I know what i'd be doing.

+1.

A guard will never be in a position to assault me again, but if he did I wouldn't retaliate, I'd hit the ground.

I'd piss, sh*t and droll until I've taken the Dept. of Justice to the cleaners.

Then I'd chase after any money he has personally.

.

thelordofcheese

Dark_lord_ire wrote: »

Lugs was not a thug by any means and your attitude seems to be the same that has us in this mess. In almost any other country in the world police are hard here the police don't even have guns. We have it too good which is a bad thing no fear of police leads to civil unrest. We should not be arfaid of the police just the criminals should be

The only difference between lugs and 'scumbags' is that lugs had a badge.

Dark_lord_ire

thelordofcheese wrote: »

The only difference between lugs and 'scumbags' is that lugs had a badge.

So many negitive comments. It's sad to see that the country is burning and noone cares those that do don't have support. Well I would like to add that 95% of criminals no matter the offence will say they done nothing wrong. Thing will get better but must get alot worse first

mirror mirror

bide your time and plan well ,then make the knacker scumbag suffer .put him in sooo much pain that the b.tch who gave birth to him would feel it too.hurting an elderly couple like that ,thats all he deserves.

Morlar

Dark_lord_ire wrote: »

i found it very interesting reading comments today from Justice Carney. I've always liked how he handled cases fair but firm and in resent comments he stated that ireland would not have the crime levels we have now if we had more lugs branigans to deal with criminals.

In case nobody knows james "lugs" branigan was a garda in dublin during the 60's and 70's famous in garda circles. He was a big strong man who would give any mouthy thugs a few slaps and send him home rather than clog up the courts. i'm being very general there lol but he had huge respect in the city from everyone.

Justice Carney also stated that in todays "PC" world he could not exsist and the would keep the ombusman very busy with complaints(actually probably dismissed and fired). Today if a thug is arrested he can say what he wants to the garda such as threaten to kill him, his family etc and cant be touched. If that person is under 18 odds are they get just a caution and their abusive parents in next morning very angry that their sweet little angel was unfairly arrested. We see gangs in control, thugs stealing cars and violence on our streets each weekend. Agreed most if not all is parents fault.

Once upon a time a garda would smack someone across the back of the head all the way home to the parents and then the parents would smack them for bringing the guards to the door and also thanking and backing the guards for it.


my question is this has the law gone in the wrong direction too much giving the criminal too many rights. Would any here agree with bringing back the likes of lugs?

personally i would love to see the gardai being able to take harder action.

for everyones information here is the link to the article.

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/gardai-need-lugs-branigan-approach-to-cracking-crime-1617300.html

I would have a lot of time for Judge Carney - he was one of the few who handed down sentences which were understandable (from time to time at least).

I think the pendulum has gone too far the other way these days and needs to be redressed.

Nowadays you can try to try to throw a guard off a 3 floor balcony and get . .. .what 3 months ?

There are too many light/suspended/concurrent sentences these days and the flimsiest of 'reasons' given in the expectation of leniency. Scumbags have no fear of the courts. If that situation continues (which it seems likely to) then I would rather have them afraid of the guards if that meant they would show respect to the rest of society in the process.

Bottle_of_Smoke

The real criminals don't care about beatings. Like the IRA in the past they know how to deal with them.

The only people the guards would be brave enough to assault would be street protesters

Morlar

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

The real criminals don't care about beatings.

If your talking about gang hitmen and hardcore organised criminals - then maybe not but there a LOT of scumbags who are not quite that far along who would care. As I see things its more a case of the guards being apprehensive about potential legal consequences rather than of being physically in fear of the scumbags. Not sure where you are going with the 'protestor' thing. I wouldnt know - the only recent time the guards really let loose (that I can think of) was against english football goons who were getting uppity & fair play to them imo.

Nehaxak

Morlar wrote: »

[...]I would rather have them afraid of the guards if that meant they would show respect to the rest of society in the process.

Fear and respect are two different things and what you've said is typically what many "gangsters" would use. They use fear to gain respect. Is this what you and some others are advocating ? Sure seems that way.

I'd prefer people just respected our Garda out of sheer admiration for the work that they do rather than fear of getting a kick in the teeth from some backward bogger at the station, or in the street in broad daylight as they know they'll get away with it anyway because of the badge. Rotten apples there are but a few but it's all it takes to smear a whole force.

Morlar

Nehaxak wrote: »

Fear and respect are two different things and what you've said is typically what many "gangsters" would use. They use fear to gain respect. Is this what you and some others are advocating ? Sure seems that way.

I'd prefer people just respected our Garda out of sheer admiration for the work that they do rather than fear of getting a kick in the teeth from some backward bogger at the station, or in the street in broad daylight as they know they'll get away with it anyway because of the badge. Rotten apples there are but a few but it's all it takes to smear a whole force.

Do you honestly believe that at some point the scumbags of dublin/Ireland will realise the virtue in the dedication of An Garda Siochana and revert to a life free of crime and anti social behaviour ? You honestly think thats even remotely likely to happen to any kind of meaningful extent ? Honestly ?

The fact is (in my view) currently they do not have respect (in a large part) for the courts system. This leads to more crime and more (law abiding) victims.

Criminals in my experience have very little fear of suspended/light/concurrent legal raps on the knuckles for those rare times that they actually get caught and the case actually makes it as far as court.

If that continues (which I do not think it should) then yes faced with no other alternative I would have no problem with the guards filling the gap and knocking some sense into them from time to time. In the same way that english football fans know not to cause **** in dublin and know what to expect if they do (and havent since) I think it may bring about an improvement.

Not all guards are 'backward' btw or from the country.

tallaght01

We all saw how beating up Rodney King put law and order back on the streets, didn't we!!!

In my opinion, we have jurys for a reason.