garda methods- judge carney

Gummy Panda

I remember when i was a young teenager cycling to school down griffith avenue when a car hit me and drove off. A driver going the other way pulled over to call an ambulance while a jogger ran up to whitehall garda station. No garda arrived on scene even though the station is 5 mins away.

My father was furious when he found out. Rang the garda station and threatened to sue and report them. Day or two later 2 garda knock on the door of my home looking to speak to my father about the incident. He wasn't there so they seemed to take a very simple report from me and my mother about the incident. As they were leaving my mother noticed they had no numbers on their shoulders. We presumed they had come to "silence" my father over the phone calls.

About 1 year later, there was protests outside Whitehall garda station about police brutality.

I prefer the new young breed of Garda. They seem to want to make a difference and don't resort to violence first to resolve incidents.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Dark_lord_ire wrote: »

oWhatever about a gaurd giving a slap that was nothing years back to what the parents would do when you got home. I'm still under 30 woohoo but when i was a teen i knew that if i ever done something criminal my dad would have killed me and knowing that kept me on the straight.

Now, the problem here is that it sounds like you only stayed away from crime because you were scared of your Dad, rather than out of respect for your community.

meet fire with fire, anyway what i was getting at is not slapping the heads of these lads its too late for them but when they were young and at an age where you could have instilled respect in them. And going the liberal root has had backlash was there not a guard shot in the middle of the day in dublin last year or was i dreaming about that? also i did hear assaults on gardai were up huge amounts (thats on the guards who now have to be nice) i cant quote fingure on assaults on gardai but i do recall hearing it on the news.

bet if they get pepperspray people will freak out they have it. I might add that in any other country ive been in where the police are armed i did feel safer knowing they were around. Sigh what a country we live in

Ireland has never gone the liberal route. The liberal route would involve getting into these communites and getting kids (by kids I mean 8-10 year olds) interested in things. But let them have a say, rather than founding a soccer team and touch **** for the "ungreatful little ****" who don't like soccer. Find out what THEY like rather than telling them, find out how to get the resources and allocate the funding and make it happen. LISTEN, don't talk. That's the only way you're going to get these kids to have genuine respect for their neighbourhood. It should be widespread. Every street, every estate.
We had a perfect chance at the height of the Celtic Tiger, but unfortunately we went down the ignorant conservative route, because the liberal approach meant spending money and making an effort rather than just shoving the problem under the carpet. The alternative was too keep the money and mouth off about bleeding-heart liberals because it means less hassle than actually doing something.

The reuslt? No money and a thriving scumbag community. So shall ye reap what ye sow. What's disturbing is that people STILL think it's a good idea and still want to make the same mistake again.

I completely agree with you about arming the guards with non-fatal weapons such as pepperspray, but with serious repercussions for any Guard caught using it unprovoked.

K-9

I'd give them more authority and powers, but there'd also need to be a better Complaints and Disciplinary procedure.

My Dad is an ex Guard and he's disgusted at the behaviour of some of the Guards were I'm from. You can't give guys like that extra power with no extra checks.

Kernel

dvpower wrote: »

Guards can't assault suspects because assault is against the law.

Actually, they can assault people, and it is lawful for them to do so. The force used must be deemed proportionate however.

mountainyman

Wagon wrote: »

But back in Lugs day was a little different. Civilians could excersise the law more if it meant to protecting themselves. For example, take the flats in Dolphin's barn. A pair of scumbags beat up a teenager when he's walking home. The kid gets home, lets his parents know and who the lads were. Then the father and a group of lads go out, find the two little ****s that did it and give them a good hiding and that's the end of it. It puts those two little bastards in their place. It's not mob rule either, it's more looking out for each other.

However, if that were to happen today there would be holy war. The parent and whoever else was involved would be locked up, the two teenagers would be warned not to attack anyone and they get away with it. The problem is the law is too bloody lenient and protects these little bastards. SO if i heard the news that a gang of them got the living **** kicked out of them for robbing a car or hurting someone, I'd have no sympathy.

When Concerned Parents Against Drugs were putting junkies out of the flats the cops were straight in to protect the junkies. Maybe the cops were different in the 60s but nowadays they don't give a fucjk about poor people.

dvpower

Kernel wrote: »

Actually, they can assault people, and it is lawful for them to do so. The force used must be deemed proportionate however.

@Kernal.
That's just wordplay now. Were talking in the context of the behaviour that Lugs Brannigan was associated with. i.e. meeting out a bit of a kicking instead of bringing people to court. Of course this was never lawful, just tolerated.

It was you that said "Guards cant get physical because of the system of protecting the criminal"

dvpower

mountainyman wrote: »

When Concerned Parents Against Drugs were putting junkies out of the flats the cops were straight in to protect the junkies.

This is a good thing, right?

Nehaxak

Originally Posted by mountainyman
When Concerned Parents Against Drugs were putting junkies out of the flats the cops were straight in to protect the junkies.

They were NOT putting junkies out of the area's they were putting pushers out. If it so happened that a junky was dealing then of course they would be put out if they didn't stop the pushing. The ONLY time I've ever seen a junky who didn't push being put out of an area was in the area I grew up in (Ballybrack) where a junky who fed his habit by robbing handbags was ordered out of Ireland as the cops never did anything to stop him.
He ended up in London and died a couple weeks later from an overdose.
CPAD got things done and done really well and the support they had from the communities was immense, so much so that the Garda, the government and the media puppets reacted against them for fear of ordinary working people rising up en masse together against an ineffective government and political system that didn't give a shít about people from the area's effected badly by the drugs scourge.

The vigilante beatings that sometimes were given to pushers was nothing to do with the CPAD groups but more to do with just people within the communities getting so pissed off with pushers and having the ability to easily find like-minded people at marches to come together and dish out the beatings. Any beatings were never sanctioned by CPAD, it was purely peaceful ways, what others did with their own time was their business.

None of that would've been necessary at all if the Government at the time and the Garda actually did their job in the first place and stopped the drugs pushing in the area's effected before it got out of control.

Wagon

Nehaxak wrote: »

The vigilante beatings that sometimes were given to pushers was nothing to do with the CPAD groups but more to do with just people within the communities getting so pissed off with pushers and having the ability to easily find like-minded people at marches to come together and dish out the beatings.

They needed to. It's how they helped prevent a situation like the one we have at the moment.

Biggins

Nehaxak wrote: »

...None of that would've been necessary at all if the Government at the time and the Garda actually did their job in the first place and stopped the drugs pushing in the area's effected before it got out of control.

I'm sorry but all I am hearing is "the Gardi should do their jobs" continuously.
Maybe if the too politically correct could stop whining and bitching from their mouths long enough to actually use them to provide necessary information on the drug scum, then the job would be done a lot frakin' quicker.

This really pisses me off. The hoard or mob low mentality scream at the cops "go do your job" in community areas.
Well if ye opened your frankin' mouths about what ya know (they provide enough bloody phone numbers!) their job would be so much easier.
After all, some of ye are living in these badly effected areas. You see whats going on, you know whos doing it and yet you have the gall to to do frak all yourself, not because "it's not my job to!" but ye haven't a set of balls or are just too lazy to go into town, use an anonymous phone, ring a hotline number and give your info!

Yet again, ye are crying "...the courts, send them to the courts!". Well guess what, the courts need info and evidence! And YOU have it!

Would you send a soldier off to war without bullets in his gun?
Well we are asking for the Gardi to come into areas and "attack" the drug pushers without the NECESSARY info that YOU - YOU - can provide.

To those crying out that the Gardi are "coming in and (supposedly randomly) selecting people on the street" - well if you helped instead of hiding behind your curtains silently, mouths closed, maybe with the appropriate and more selective direct information that you can provide, such occurrences might end.

Your either a part of the problem or you can be a part of the solution!

HOTLINE 1800 220 220

http://dialtostop.ie/

dvpower

Nehaxak wrote: »

The vigilante beatings that sometimes were given to pushers was nothing to do with the CPAD groups but more to do with just people within the communities getting so pissed off with pushers and having the ability to easily find like-minded people at marches to come together and dish out the beatings. Any beatings were never sanctioned by CPAD, it was purely peaceful ways, what others did with their own time was their business.

Did you type that with a straight face?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Wagon wrote: »

They needed to. It's how they helped prevent a situation like the one we have at the moment.

Then how come we still have a situation like the one we have at the moment?

Nehaxak

dvpower wrote: »

Did you type that with a straight face?

Yes Nora.

corribdude

I think this is the type of cop you are talking about - Irish Joe the Cop

dvpower

Nehaxak wrote: »

The vigilante beatings that sometimes were given to pushers was nothing to do with the CPAD groups but more to do with just people within the communities getting so pissed off with pushers and having the ability to easily find like-minded people at marches to come together and dish out the beatings. Any beatings were never sanctioned by CPAD, it was purely peaceful ways, what others did with their own time was their business.

The family of Josie Dwyer might disagree.
http://www.rte.ie/news/1999/1207/dwyer.html


Excerpts:
"John Fitzpatrick from Fatima Mansions, has been jailed for seven and a half years for the manslaughter of drug addict Josie Dwyer. "
...
"John Fitzpatrick and Mark Cooke were both members of a concerned parents group in the Dolphin's barn area of Dublin"
...
"Judge Dominic Lynch jailed him for seven and a half years, and he received a two-year concurrent sentence for violent disorder. After the hearing, Mr Fitzpatrick shouted "up the concerned parents". "

Nehaxak

Biggins wrote: »

I'm sorry but all I am hearing is "the Gardi should do their jobs" continuously.
Maybe if the too politically correct could stop whining and bitching from their mouths long enough to actually use them to provide necessary information on the drug scum, then the job would be done a lot frakin' quicker.

This really pisses me off. The hoard or mob low mentality scream at the cops "go do your job" in community areas.
Well if ye opened your frankin' mouths about what ya know (they provide enough bloody phone numbers!) their job would be so much easier.
After all, some of ye are living in these badly effected areas. You see whats going on, you know whos doing it and yet you have the gall to to do frak all yourself, not because "it's not my job to!" but ye haven't a set of balls or are just too lazy to go into town, use an anonymous phone, ring a hotline number and give your info! ... [Snip...rant rant rant]...

Where the hell do you live that you could say the above and actually believe it ? Seriously like :rolleyes:

"Hi, My name is John and I'd like to report a bloke called Anto who'se dealing drugs on the corner of the street here, grand thanks"

_ Woo wooo woooo, Schreech..... 5 Garda cars pull up at the street corner where Anto deals....

"Right lads, we got an anonymous call from someone who said Anto is dealing drugs, so you're lagged pal, off to the joy for you"

...

"Yes Judge, someone called John called and said Anto was dealing drugs"

"...Riiiight..."

"No Judge, I never deal drugs, I was just smoking a joint when the garda grabbed me"

"So where's this John fella who made the call"

"Well it was an anoymous call, so..."

"Stop wasting the courts time ! Case dismissed..."

Or...

"Well Judge, John came forward to testify but on his way here he was shot dead on the street"

"Did you not put him into the witness protection programme ?"

"The wha' ?"

"The Witness protec... oh wait, yeah, we actually don't have one do we ? Ah well, pure John...Eh.. Case dismissed then, off you go Anto..."

Even if there was a witness protection programme of any sort, it would have to be Europe wide as Ireland is too small a country to "hide" any witness forever. Even at that again, who the fck wants to put themselves and their family through all that shíte anyway just because the Garda haven't the resources made available to them by the state to provide them with the proper assistance they need to deal with it all.

The only time the drugs issue became a real problem for Ireland was when some nobody model overdosed on cocaine. Poor girl and all and I feel for her family as onyone else would but ffs, talk about taking the piss...

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Nehaxak wrote: »

Where the hell do you live that you could say the above and actually believe it ? Seriously like :rolleyes:

"Hi, My name is John and I'd like to report a bloke called Anto who'se dealing drugs on the corner of the street here, grand thanks"

_ Woo wooo woooo, Schreech..... 5 Garda cars pull up at the street corner where Anto deals....

Now here's where you plot goes a bit Tim Kring. The guards don't hop in a car and blatantly head off towards Anto. They take intfo and use a bit of surveillance. See those little metal things with glass on the front? They're called 'cameras'. Yes I know you think they're spying on you, but one of them migth be watching Anto. Now if Anto's wearing a duffle coat and shaking hands with every idiot who walks but, then we might move on to the woo wooo woooo bit. Only it won't be woo wooo wooo it'll be plainclothes in an unmarked car. They go down, watch for a bit and see what Anto's up to. If Anto's dealing, they'll move in. Might involve a bit of a chase, but they're fit blokes. And like I said, a few non-fatal weapons wouldn't go amiss here.

So God-willing, Anto gets caugh and a quick search reveals four kgs, fast-forward to courtcase.

Nehazak wrote:

"Yes Judge, someone called John called and said Anto was dealing drugs"

"...Riiiight..."

"No Judge, I never deal drugs, I was just smoking a joint when the garda grabbed me"

"So where's this John fella who made the call"

"Well it was an anoymous call, so..."

"Stop wasting the courts time ! Case dismissed..."

What the judgse actually says is, "any other evidence...?"

"Yes, we caught Anto with 4kgs of crack on his person."

"Sentencing next Thursday."

....

Next Thrusday, RTE news

Guard - "I'd like to publicly thank the bravery of the individual who came forward with vital information which has resulted in the Anto being behind bars"

Biggins

Nehaxak wrote: »

Where the hell do you live that you could say the above and actually believe it ? Seriously like :rolleyes:

blaa blaa blaaa...

So after you got all that useless rant off your chest, your still not able to to to a phone in town and ring a hotline that won't ask for your name - just your information - then ye deserve what ye get because your part of the problem in not helping in ANY way.

The only time the drugs issue became a real problem for Ireland was when some nobody model overdosed on cocaine. Poor girl and all and I feel for her family as onyone else would but ffs, talk about taking the piss...

Its that what you really think, there's no point in having a serious discussion with that type of pure blind mentality. One conveniently disregarding whats gone before drugs history-wise for argumentative sake.

Just this year lone this is what the Gardi is facing before they even get to the drug pushers!

* ALL building plans - SHELVED
* No new cars (but the Dublin mayor alone gets a new '09 Rolls Royce!!!)
* Recruitment cut by 60%
* Overtime cut by a quarter
* A planned computer system for managing what little information they have - SHELVED!
* 40 Civilian assistance roles SHELVED!
* Much needed improvements to Garda stations (Kilkenny and Wexford to mention 2) - SHELVED
* Dublin's Kevin St station serious needed overhaul - chopped!
* The Centre of Excellence for Garda Training (firearms instruction/other training) - SHELVED
* Training for rest of Gardi slashed by 52%
* The IT project to handle evidence on big cases, "The Major Investigation Support System" - SHELVED

...and that's only the beginning according to an internal report for the beginning of 2009.

Then you and your bad memory come here, do your rant about the Gardi not doing their job!
Well they can't do their job if you won't do yours!

Stop whining and be a gain - not a pain!

Nehaxak

dvpower wrote: »

After the hearing, Mr Fitzpatrick shouted "up the concerned parents". "

Well for one I'm not going to defend anything like that ffs, that's rediculous and I do remember all about it at the time as well.
It should be pointed out that he also shouted "Up Fine Gael !" for some reason as he was taken away so take from that as much as what you take from him shouting "up the concerned parents".
An old friend of mine was at the trial (a member of CPAD from one of the Northside area's) and I remember him telling me at the time that nobody there from the local CPAD group even knew who he was.
Anyway, it was stuff like this and people doing stuff like this supposedly in CPAD's groups name that caused the group city-wide to disband. If your own country, your own police force (Garda), the media and your own people don't support you then wtf is the point of continuing and from that then we are where we are now. Welcome to your own doing.
If more people had of supported the peaceful marches and peaceful protests by ordinary people from ordinary area's with backing from the state and Garda to keep violent elements away - well things would be an awful lot different today.

So to anyone else even bothering to think about marching or protesting for whatever reason - honestly, you're just wasting your time as apart from the people on the marches and protests with you, the rest of the country just couldn't give a shít. Sad but honestly also very true.

znv6i3h7kqf9ys

A few slaps sounds fine however the Gardai have much sneakier methods of hurting people and putting them out of action. I'll give you an example. I was taken into a cell because I was found asleep in a doorway. (I'm not homeless by the way & just had a bit too much to drink that night.) I had not caused anybody any trouble all night except for being a bit cheaky due to my reluctance of being taken into custody. In the cell the Guard choked me until I passed out. I woke to find him using his baton on my left elbow. Before I woke he had already battoned both of my knees, both of my hips and the other elbow. I could not walk for 2 days. I got my injuries photographed by my doctor and told him the story. Lucky I did this because the bruising from soft tissue injury heals very quickly thus the evidence evaporates. I was disgusted at the Judge's comments. We are not long after the morris tribunal. Everybody who has contributed to this thread should read that report and then comment. I would have held many of your views about hitting scumbags however wear a hoodie and drink a bit too much to drink and you could be figured for one and treated like one. If you are middle class (which I would consider myself) it's very easy to view the gardai as thick culchies and that suits them as well. It means you can't see the darker side of AGS which working class youths experience on a daily basis. Just look at the amount of cases of people being killed while in custody ( Brian Rossiter, Terrance Whealock etc.) They go in fine and then they die and oh one final point. Isn't it convienient that most garda stations do not have cctv?? Why ??? If they don't break the law ie (assault, framing people for murder) what do they have to hide?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Nehaxak wrote: »

Well for one I'm not going to defend anything like that ffs, that's rediculous and I do remember all about it at the time as well.
It should be pointed out that he also shouted "Up Fine Gael !" for some reason as he was taken away so take from that as much as what you take from him shouting "up the concerned parents".
An old friend of mine was at the trial (a member of CPAD from one of the Northside area's) and I remember him telling me at the time that nobody there from the local CPAD group even knew who he was.
Anyway, it was stuff like this and people doing stuff like this supposedly in CPAD's groups name that caused the group city-wide to disband. If your own country, your own police force (Garda), the media and your own people don't support you then wtf is the point of continuing and from that then we are where we are now. Welcome to your own doing.
If more people had of supported the peaceful marches and peaceful protests by ordinary people from ordinary area's with backing from the state and Garda to keep violent elements away - well things would be an awful lot different today.

So to anyone else even bothering to think about marching or protesting for whatever reason - honestly, you're just wasting your time as apart from the people on the marches and protests with you, the rest of the country just couldn't give a shít. Sad but honestly also very true.

Interesting that the message under your avatar advocates a protest but your post writes it off as pointless.

If the people affected are too apathetic then, as Biggins said, they serve what they get.

Your signature sums it up more accurately that your avatar.

Nehaxak

Biggins, you conveniently ignore most of what I've said for your own purpose then reiterate it in another manner again to suit your "argument" but yet give nothing other than a rant in return and a cut/paste from whatever internal document you say you have, which I mean really, who the hell didn't know that stuff anyway, doesn't need any internal report to know the Garda resources are decimated.
Good luck with whatever protest/march/political party/chaining yourself to railings that you go ahead with yourself but be prepared to be alone on that as you clearly have very little if any actual life experience or even ability to comprehend the "real world" of what actually does go on "out there".

Let me also re-quote for arguments sake...

"Even at that again, who the fck wants to put themselves and their family through all that shíte anyway just because the Garda haven't the resources made available to them by the state to provide them with the proper assistance they need to deal with it all."

"I'd prefer people just respected our Garda out of sheer admiration for the work that they do rather than fear of getting a kick in the teeth from some backward bogger at the station, or in the street in broad daylight as they know they'll get away with it anyway because of the badge. Rotten apples there are but a few but it's all it takes to smear a whole force."

"they bring bad blood and dishonour to the Gardai, couple of really bad apples ruining it for those in the Garda who actually are doing a great job and doing their best to uphold the law while maintaining their integrity and professionalism."

...and many another post before where I am supportive of the Garda and have said many a time that it is their lack of resources, lack of training and as such then a lock of morale/ability to even care sometimes. There are great Garda and a small few bad apples but mostly it is down to a lack of resources and support from the state that they cannot do their job.

Telling people to call an anonymous number is utterly rediculous and shows a complete lack of any comprehension of the problem other than that fueled by inept media and spin doctors within the government PR department.

When you do decide to chain yourself to railings, come out to Ballymun and do it and sure hang a big "drug dealing scumbags get out or I'm calling the cops" sign around you while you're at it.

Biggins wrote: »

So after you got all that useless rant off your chest, your still not able to to to a phone in town and ring a hotline that won't ask for your name - just your information - then ye deserve what ye get because your part of the problem in not helping in ANY way.

[snip...]

Then you and your bad memory come here, do your rant about the Gardi doing their job!
Well they can't do their job if you won't do yours!

Stop whining and be a gain - not a pain!

<sigh>
Honestly, get out from behind the computer and actually go visit some of the area's badly effected, sure you can call the cops while you're there seeing open drug pushing, then come back and tell us all how it went for you :rolleyes:

Nehaxak

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Interesting that the message under your avatar advocates a protest but your post writes it off as pointless.

If the people affected are too apathetic then, as Biggles said, they serve what they get.

Your signature sums it up more accurately that your avatar.

Honestly Ikky I dunno what your problem is or what you're trying to say half the time as it's not making any sense but if I'm right, the gist of what you're saying is...
That I'm wrong because I live in a place badly effected by drugs (not any way as bad as before mind) and both yourself and Biggins are correct because you live on a cloud up in cuckoo land with a phone beside you that you make anonymous calls with to the Garda and they magically appear on their super duper cloud of justice to solve all the problems and sure they have robocop with them just in case a few heads need bashing in. :rolleyes:

Well g'luck with that, won't be long anyway until the drugs problem severely effects more affluent area's of the country so maybe then you'll both take your heads out of the sand.

Biggins

Nehaxak, I'm delighted to see that you indeed support the Gardi.
Taking the position though that not proving any information you might have, is one that leads to a slower or halting pace in dealing with the drugs menace.
Also stating that the rest of the us failed to see the drugs menace before a famous female model died, is just a completely daft rant and bizarre to say the least.

If you think that chaining myself or anyone to the railings of Ballymum will be an effective use of possible MAXIMUM publicity, then you have no comprehension of effective media management and its use in applying pressure to the RIGHT areas so that it can have its knock on effect to THEN, the areas of Ballymum.

For the record, I've been in the areas you suggest, delth with the problem man a time in may ways. How did it go? Want to see the scars?

We are getting off the main topic however and I'm partly to blame for that.

Garda methods as mentioned by Judge Carney used to exist.
Were they right, no, in most cases.
Did they instill a fear of the law, by god "yes".
Is todays pampering, soft feelly touch methods working? "Hell no"

I'm still scratching my head for solutions - can you provide any that won't see the "protect the drug pushers right" people are up in arms again!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Nehaxak wrote: »

Me wrote:

Interesting that the message under your avatar advocates a protest but your post writes it off as pointless.

If the people affected are too apathetic then, as Biggles said, they serve what they get.

Your signature sums it up more accurately that your avatar.

Honestly Ikky I dunno what your problem is or what you're trying to say half the time as it's not making any sense but if I'm right, the gist of what you're saying is...
That I'm wrong because I live in a place badly effected by drugs (not any way as bad as before mind) and both yourself and Biggins are correct because you live on a cloud up in cuckoo land with a phone beside you that you make anonymous calls with to the Garda and they magically appear on their super duper cloud of justice to solve all the problems and sure they have robocop with them just in case a few heads need bashing in. :rolleyes:

Well g'luck with that, won't be long anyway until the drugs problem severely effects more affluent area's of the country so maybe then you'll both take your heads out of the sand.

Did you read what I wrote?

1 - Where did I even write the word "you"?
2 - Where did I comment on where you lived?
3 - I was talking about protesting and apathy, you have replied to neither.

If I lived in place where there was a problem, drugs or otherwise, I would have NO HESITATION picking up the phone and ringing a confidential line. What the guards did or didn't do after that is up to them.

I think you live in cloud cuckoo line becaue you seem to think the problems going to go away with everyone sitting in their armchairs and watcing Coronation Street.

znv6i3h7kqf9ys

Morris Tribunal, Brian Rossiter Terrance Whealock etc etc etc

Nehaxak

Biggins wrote: »

Nehaxak, I'm delighted to see that you indeed support the Gardi.
Taking the position though that not proving any information you might have, is one that leads to a slower or halting pace in dealing with the drugs menace.
Also stating that the rest of the us failed to see the drugs menace before a famous female model died, is just a completely daft rant and bizarre to say the least.

If you think that chaining myself or anyone to the railings of Ballymum will be an effective use of possible MAXIMUM publicity, then you have no comprehension of effective media management and its use in applying pressure to the RIGHT areas so that it can have its knock on effect to THEN, the areas of Ballymum.

For the record, I've been in the areas you suggest, delth with the problem man a time in may ways. How did it go? Want to see the scars?

We are getting off the main topic however and I'm partly to blame for that.

Garda methods as mentioned by Judge Carney used to exist.
Were they right, no, in most cases.
Did they instill a fear of the law, by god "yes".
Is todays pampering, soft feelly touch methods working? "Hell no"

I'm still scratching my head for solutions - can you provide any that won't see the "protect the drug pushers right" people are up in arms again!

Grand so, back on civil terms I can work with

Yes I can provide a solution to all of this, I could write pages and pages of information of it (well I could but I can't write now as I have to finish a proposal here in work in 30 minutes) but put plain and simple my own solution is as follows in 3 very quick points...

1) Provide enough resources, training, manpower, increase in wages and support for the Garda.

2) Provide an independant police complaints commission (similar to what's been done up the North) with serious powers who can intervene and take the actions required if ever needed.

3) Increase help and support mechanisms available for drug users/abusers.

There's 3 for a start anyway.

K-9

Biggins wrote: »

Garda methods as mentioned by Judge Carney used to exist.
Were they right, no, in most cases.
Did they instill a fear of the law, by god "yes".
Is todays pampering, soft feelly touch methods working? "Hell no"

Fear of the Guards is good, resentment isn't.

Plus if they were allowed to do it, the parents would need to stop moaning about the Guards doing their job and "how dare they touch my wee Jimmy".

dvpower

K-9 wrote: »

Fear of the Guards is good

Respect for the Guards is good, but fear of the Guards? What good is that?

Morlar

dvpower wrote: »

Respect for the Guards is good, but fear of the Guards? What good is that?

Fear of consequences is a deterrent to anti-social behaviour, no fear and no consequences is the opposite for some people.