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Irish people get screwed again....

2

Comments

  • #32
    Krieg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,378 ✭✭✭Krieg


    Im not with eircom. I was with them over 3 years ago and I very rarely used p2p. Im with NTL/UPC but I wouldn't feel too safe about it, who says UPC wont crumble under pressure? I know they are an English company and OP quoted the Intellectual Property minister in saying he wouldn't enforce ISP's to go after users, but will that hold here too?


  • #33
    ShooterSF
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,822 ✭✭✭ShooterSF


    EKRIUQ wrote: »
    How are they going to prove this, in the UK record companies went after individuals and brought some people to court and it was proven that these people were innocent by examining their computers and either their connection was tapped into or their IP address was duplicated. As far as I know you can change your ip address with your provider it’s a little bit techie but it is possible.

    Disclaimer: I download things from the world wide web evar!!

    Right I'm not keen on this idea and I'll explain after but to answer these kinda questions and how can they do it questions in a very basic way:

    The music companies upload fake or even real files. They can do this as they are their copyright. You connect to a torrent or through limewire etc and start downloading. They get your IP address which is easily available for eg. 78.12.7.121. Now it's easy enough (if it was real) to check who the ISP is that provides this IP.
    If it turns out to be Eircom they send a note saying Dear Mr Eircom This IP was found downloading illegal material at this time and date.
    Eircom are supposed to at this point check who had that IP address at that time (they keep extensive logs) and issue a warning or suspend them if it is the third warning.

    The big point here is, and this is my problem, is they avoid the courts. Eircom are a private business and can cut off your subscription. There is no proof needed. This means that you cannot argue your innocence as there is no hearing as such.
    Basically the record companies are finding it hard to get people prosecuted through the court so instead have made a business deal with Eircom to threaten to cut people off it the hope of scaring them and it avoids needing actual proof.


  • #34
    Tom65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,685 ✭✭✭Tom65


    ShooterSF wrote: »
    Right I'm not keen on this idea and I'll explain after but to answer these kinda questions and how can they do it questions in a very basic way:

    The music companies upload fake or even real files. They can do this as they are their copyright. You connect to a torrent or through limewire etc and start downloading. They get your IP address which is easily available for eg. 78.12.7.121. Now it's easy enough (if it was real) to check who the ISP is that provides this IP.
    If it turns out to be Eircom they send a note saying Dear Mr Eircom This IP was found downloading illegal material at this time and date.
    Eircom are supposed to at this point check who had that IP address at that time (they keep extensive logs) and issue a warning or suspend them if it is the third warning.

    But surely if someone is downloading through rapidshare/megaupload, the record companies would have to ask those companies for the IP addresses of people who've downloaded their files?


  • #35
    lisbon_lions
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 517 ✭✭✭lisbon_lions


    You can conceal you IP if you really are paranoid about it. realakks or tor come to mind.

    The concept of no court is a bit worrying though, all the more reason imo to use masking - if they can enforce this on you outside the courts of law - then simply dont give them that opportunity.

    Personally ,i dont download music or movies. just youtube and veoh watching...


  • #36
    OctavarIan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,736 ✭✭✭OctavarIan


    Getting suspended from Eircom isn't so much a punishment as a favour. Serious uploaders/downloaders aren't even on Eircom anyway.


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  • #37
    Krieg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,378 ✭✭✭Krieg


    Just found another thread on the BB forum for those interested
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055474230


  • #38
    Terry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,073 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    Gone Drinking wrote: »
    Back to taping songs off the radio, sweet!

    Indeed.
    I'm going to buy some blank tapes made by Sony too.

    The record companies can go and **** themselves.
    They screwed us for years with overpriced records, CDs and tapes, all the while giving only a tiny percentage of the takings to the artists.


  • #39
    ShooterSF
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,822 ✭✭✭ShooterSF


    Tom65 wrote: »
    But surely if someone is downloading through rapidshare/megaupload, the record companies would have to ask those companies for the IP addresses of people who've downloaded their files?

    Indeed. Thats why they are targeting people who use P2P as it doesn't require anyone giving private information to anyone. Rapidshare and such aren't as easy to deal with.


  • #40
    ben bedlam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 261 ✭✭ben bedlam


    Whats wrong with illegally downloading music and films?


  • #41
    Mena
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,178 ✭✭✭Mena


    ben bedlam wrote: »
    Whats wrong with illegally downloading music and films?

    The bolded, underlined bit is what's wrong.


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  • #42
    Terry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,073 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    I was just talking to a friend about this.
    He had a CD in his car. The price sticker was still on the CD.
    €24.99 in 2003 from Virgin.

    Record companies need to be aware that when people are charged this much for a CD, they are going to jump at an opportunity to get the music free.


  • #43
    Mena
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,178 ✭✭✭Mena


    julep wrote: »
    I was just talking to a friend about this.
    He had a CD in his car. The price sticker was still on the CD.
    €24.99 in 2003 from Virgin.

    Record companies need to be aware that when people are charged this much for a CD, they are going to jump at an opportunity to get the music free.

    I won't argue that, and your earlier point about the actual artists receiving very little of the total amount was, generally speaking, spot on.

    Doesn't change the fact that it's illegal though.


  • #44
    Stercus Accidit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,758 ✭✭✭Stercus Accidit


    The record companies missed the boat when it came to securing the web as a medium, they are fcuked now, its their own fault.

    If eircom does cut you off, isnt that a breach of contract?


  • #45
    Brian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,699 ✭✭✭Brian


    Mena wrote: »
    I won't argue that, and your earlier point about the actual artists receiving very little of the total amount was, generally speaking, spot on.

    Doesn't change the fact that it's illegal though.

    Just thought I'd add something on this point: When Radiohead put In Rainbows up for free/pay-what-you-want download, they got an average £1.10 per album downloaded, whereas they got <£1.00 for albums they sold through EMI.


  • #46
    Ally Dick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,822 ✭✭✭✭Ally Dick


    Mena wrote: »
    Am I missing something here? People are stealing copyrighted material and now the owners of said copywrite want to stop them? And people are complaining? I'm too old for this... :(

    Welcome to 2009. People no longer worry whether their activities are right or not. They only care about the best method of avoiding detection !


  • #47
    Mena
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,178 ✭✭✭Mena


    Baza210 wrote: »
    Just thought I'd add something on this point: When Radiohead put In Rainbows up for free/pay-what-you-want download, they got an average £1.10 per album downloaded, whereas they got <£1.00 for albums they sold through EMI.

    Wow, that's really interesting. And yet, not so supriing at all.
    Ally Dick wrote: »
    Another thing, every time you switch off and on your modem, your IP address changes. This will be impossible to figure out.

    It's logged. Simplest thing in the world to figure out actually.


  • #48
    Rsaeire
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭Rsaeire


    It's not surprising what Eircom are doing, as the US are carrying out a similar strategy. Infuriated with taking children and grandmothers to court, the RIAA are said to be in cahoots with certain US ISPs and asking for letters to be sent to the ISPs’ customers who are illegally downloading music in a, possible, 3 strike fashion.

    This is a more ideal solution for everyone, as it means that only those who are guilty should be contacted and even then, they have 2 opportunities to cease downloading copyrighted material before any action is taken against them; should a 3 strike plan but put into effect.


  • #49
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Ally Dick wrote: »
    Welcome to 2009. People no longer worry whether their activities are right or not. They only care about the best method of avoiding detection !

    O' come on. That's enough about the government! :rolleyes:


  • #50
    Ally Dick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,822 ✭✭✭✭Ally Dick


    Mena wrote: »


    It's logged. Simplest thing in the world to figure out actually.

    They don't keep the logs indefinitely though.


  • #51
    Ally Dick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,822 ✭✭✭✭Ally Dick


    Eircom are cutting their own throats if they follow through on this. People will all sign up to another ISP. I seriously doubt that Eircom are going to do anything about it.


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  • #52
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    I wait for the first case to hit the courts.
    People will leave EirCON in droves! And rightly so. They are over-priced fools anyway.


  • #53
    deleriumtremens
    Closed Accounts Posts: 491 ✭✭deleriumtremens


    I havnt bought a cd or dvd in years!!! Typical that this would happen in Ireland!


  • #54
    Zangetsu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,218 ✭✭✭Zangetsu


    I've actually stopped downloading music altogether now... Dunno why, for some reason I want to give my money to the people who work so hard to write this stuff. Especially smaller bands... I love the way bands are doing free releases to make a point (good publicity too but we won't judge them for it!).

    Its bull**** that eircom are going after people for it though, its bands like metallica that would suck satans daemon cock for a fiver that really piss me off...


  • #55
    Trev M
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,840 ✭✭✭Trev M


    Satins cock eh?


  • #56
    Zangetsu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,218 ✭✭✭Zangetsu


    Trev M wrote: »
    Satins cock eh?



    Hope I didn't offend you too much with my poor spelling. I whole heartedly appalogise...


  • #57
    Local-womanizer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,798 ✭✭✭Local-womanizer


    Ass Face wrote: »
    I'm off the hook. I'm not with Eircom.

    Lucky you...


  • #58
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    EirCON are only following a position reahed by France a few months ago.
    They have now adopted a three strikes system

    For more on that see the following for example:

    http://www.cbc.ca/arts/media/story/2007/11/24/france-illegal-downloaders.html?ref=rss
    http://news.softpedia.com/news/Illegal-Downloads-To-Be-Banned-In-France-71797.shtml

    EirCON is only playing copy-cat.


  • #59
    garvbox
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8 ✭garvbox


    I've heard that UPC (or NTL) have been throttling the connection of extremely high end users (like up to a terabyte a month!!) because those users were suspected torrent downloaders. I wonder how much you would have to download before eircom cop on to the usage, and is there any way of tracing your type of traffic then??

    btw, just asking as a matter of interest, I know nothing of this whole torrent business ;);)


  • #60
    ChocolateSauce
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭ChocolateSauce


    I've already switched to BT.


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  • #61
    twinytwo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,612 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    Tom65 wrote: »
    Can some knowledgeable person tell how Eircom will go about doing this? Will they look for people using torrents, or what sites they've been on? What about albums being downloaded as RAR files from rapidshare or megaupload, rather than "file sharing"?


    (Disclaimer: I'm neither an eircom customer, or living in Ireland, so I think I'm outside their jurisdiction)

    From what i heard its the torrents getting IP addresses etc... open to correction on this


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