Irish people get screwed again....

BaconZombie

When every other country agreed that this is a very flawed and unworkable idea, Ireland decides to do it anyway.......

In what has been billed as a world first, four music companies and internet server provider Eircom have agreed to work together to end illegal music downloading.

The settlement brought to an end an eight-day trial in which the music companies were suing Eircom as the country's largest internet service provider - over illegal downloading.

The four music companies have agreed to provide Eircom with the IP addresses of internet users detected illegally uploaded or downloading music.

Link to article => http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0128/download.html

Link to Video => http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0128/download_av.html


Edit:

The UK's Intellectual Property minister David Lammy has said the government will not force internet service providers to pursue file sharers.

There had been mounting speculation about government legislation on the issue as the music industry steps up its fight against the pirates.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7854494.stm

projectmayhem

Eircom are a joke as it is.

Anyway, am I wrong in thinking that the law here means downloading isn't illegal, just uploading? Now I wouldn't exactly being downloading gigs of stuff anyway, but no doubt half of the population are given the ridiculous prices Irish music retailers slap on CDs.

Ass

I'm off the hook. I'm not with Eircom.

Tom65

Can some knowledgeable person tell how Eircom will go about doing this? Will they look for people using torrents, or what sites they've been on? What about albums being downloaded as RAR files from rapidshare or megaupload, rather than "file sharing"?


(Disclaimer: I'm neither an eircom customer, or living in Ireland, so I think I'm outside their jurisdiction)

m83

NTL ftw IMHO

Creamy Goodness

Ass Face wrote: »

I'm off the hook. I'm not with Eircom.

if you're with a eircom reseller you aren't off the hook.

i'd imagine they'll go after p2p users first as the majority on not-so techie people use them more than torrents or rapidshare or usenet etc.

tony1kenobi

Going by form it'll probably take eircom years to act on it anyway.

Eircom will not disconnect anyone. They find it hard enough to connect in the first place.

projectmayhem

Ass Face wrote: »

I'm off the hook. I'm not with Eircom.

Tom65 wrote: »

(Disclaimer: I'm neither an eircom customer, or living in Ireland, so I think I'm outside their jurisdiction)

You're both overlooking the precedent Eircom have now set...

Tom65

projectmayhem wrote: »

You're both overlooking the precedent Eircom have now set...

That's why I said "outside their jurisdiction" (ie, Eircom's) rather than "affected by this decision".

GhostInTheRuins

Yeah, I'd like to know just how this would work too. I think it would be difficult to know what exactly people were downloading from sites like rapidshare.

(I don't download music by the way)

BaconZombie

They are planning on supply a list of " IP address " to Eircom who will have no access to the so called evidence.

Just look at what illegal methods the RIAA and their unwarranted "army" agents have been doing in the US.

GhostInTheRuins

BOFH_139 wrote: »

Just look at what illegal methods the RIAA and their unwarranted "army" agents have been doing in the US.

Care to explain what their illegal methods are?

Tom65

Just reading the Irish Times report, the statement from Eircom & the record companies says the measures are aimed "at ending “the absue of the internet by P2P (peer to peer) copyright infringers”, they said in a statement afterwards".

So maybe they're just going after P2P downloaders for the time being?

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Em... what about downloading films??? Yikes...!!! :P

minidazzler

m83 wrote: »

NTL ftw IMHO

Damn you whippersnappers and your Acronyms....

I'm with UPC, but I don't download anyway, I watch and listen to it on youtube, and megavideo!!

Orizio

projectmayhem wrote: »

You're both overlooking the precedent Eircom have now set...

Does it matter? They are fighting a losing battle regardless, and I'm doubtful about Eircom actually being earnest in its pursuit of illegal downloaders. Its bad for business.

BaconZombie

Just google "RIAA" "MPAA" or "MediaSentry "


Edit:
I'm to sick to index these but here are some...

http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2007/02/big-win-innocent-riaa-defendant

http://recordingindustryvspeople.blogspot.com/2008/04/mediasentry-violates-massachusetts.html

http://www.boingboing.net/2008/08/15/riaa-has-to-pay-1079.html

GhostInTheRuins wrote: »

Care to explain what their illegal methods are?

Red Alert

Well we elected the government which supports the media companies. Eamonn Ryan is the minister for communications but like the rest of the Green Party he's probably in cahoots with IMRO/IRMA/PRS/whatever. The ISP's should be made what are called 'common carriers', meaning that by law they are not responsible and cannot monitor what is sent over their network, except for network management purposes. Same way they can't disconnect your phone if they don't like what you say on it.

It'll never; ever happen.

I imagine that when they announce that they (internet providers in general) will be officially banning/ending/fining/whatever people who illegally download music/video a few things will happen:

1. People will go crazy over it, and probably start a ton of rioting/protesting,etc.

2. Internet providers will close down at a rapid pace when customers begin canceling by the bucket load

3. People will find another way around it

4. The government will realise they made a huge mistake and will return to how they were


Besides, how do they know if you're downloading legal or illegal items?

minidazzler

What are you a Cockblock??? Irish People need lovin too!!! They just have to pay!!

g5fd6ow0hseima

The Irish eager to lick arse on any american ideal

S.I.R

whoever uses eircom are stupid, sure they own all the lines in Ireland but there tools...


nice staff but poor quality and internet provisions for the price you pay ( 30 euro for 3 mb broadband !! we're gettin RAPED ! )

littlejp

minidazzler wrote: »

I'm with UPC, but I don't download anyway, I watch and listen to it on youtube, and megavideo!!

Is this not illegal too?

Mena

Am I missing something here? People are stealing copyrighted material and now the owners of said copywrite want to stop them? And people are complaining? I'm too old for this...

_feedback_

Jaysus, Napster was a great yoke, back in the day.

Jesus Wept

saps.

Gone Drinking

Back to taping songs off the radio, sweet!

EKRIUQ

How are they going to prove this, in the UK record companies went after individuals and brought some people to court and it was proven that these people were innocent by examining their computers and either their connection was tapped into or their IP address was duplicated. As far as I know you can change your ip address with your provider it’s a little bit techie but it is possible.

Disclaimer: I download things from the world wide web evar!!

Collie D

Mena wrote: »

Am I missing something here? People are stealing copyrighted material and now the owners of said copywrite want to stop them? And people are complaining?(

My thoughts exactly.

When I read the thread title I thought there'd been a massive tax hike/pay cut that I hadn't heard about.

ScumLord

What happened to the sharing is good for rock stars defense. Poor show by Eircom, just as they where gaining a little bit of respect they throw it out the window.

Dragan

So Eircom crumble under pressure, who would have thought it!!!!

I can see this going the way of AOL anyway and it'll come out that 40% of eircoms "customers" don't actually exist.

Krieg

Im not with eircom. I was with them over 3 years ago and I very rarely used p2p. Im with NTL/UPC but I wouldn't feel too safe about it, who says UPC wont crumble under pressure? I know they are an English company and OP quoted the Intellectual Property minister in saying he wouldn't enforce ISP's to go after users, but will that hold here too?

ShooterSF

EKRIUQ wrote: »

How are they going to prove this, in the UK record companies went after individuals and brought some people to court and it was proven that these people were innocent by examining their computers and either their connection was tapped into or their IP address was duplicated. As far as I know you can change your ip address with your provider it’s a little bit techie but it is possible.

Disclaimer: I download things from the world wide web evar!!

Right I'm not keen on this idea and I'll explain after but to answer these kinda questions and how can they do it questions in a very basic way:

The music companies upload fake or even real files. They can do this as they are their copyright. You connect to a torrent or through limewire etc and start downloading. They get your IP address which is easily available for eg. 78.12.7.121. Now it's easy enough (if it was real) to check who the ISP is that provides this IP.
If it turns out to be Eircom they send a note saying Dear Mr Eircom This IP was found downloading illegal material at this time and date.
Eircom are supposed to at this point check who had that IP address at that time (they keep extensive logs) and issue a warning or suspend them if it is the third warning.

The big point here is, and this is my problem, is they avoid the courts. Eircom are a private business and can cut off your subscription. There is no proof needed. This means that you cannot argue your innocence as there is no hearing as such.
Basically the record companies are finding it hard to get people prosecuted through the court so instead have made a business deal with Eircom to threaten to cut people off it the hope of scaring them and it avoids needing actual proof.

Tom65

ShooterSF wrote: »

Right I'm not keen on this idea and I'll explain after but to answer these kinda questions and how can they do it questions in a very basic way:

The music companies upload fake or even real files. They can do this as they are their copyright. You connect to a torrent or through limewire etc and start downloading. They get your IP address which is easily available for eg. 78.12.7.121. Now it's easy enough (if it was real) to check who the ISP is that provides this IP.
If it turns out to be Eircom they send a note saying Dear Mr Eircom This IP was found downloading illegal material at this time and date.
Eircom are supposed to at this point check who had that IP address at that time (they keep extensive logs) and issue a warning or suspend them if it is the third warning.

But surely if someone is downloading through rapidshare/megaupload, the record companies would have to ask those companies for the IP addresses of people who've downloaded their files?

lisbon_lions

You can conceal you IP if you really are paranoid about it. realakks or tor come to mind.

The concept of no court is a bit worrying though, all the more reason imo to use masking - if they can enforce this on you outside the courts of law - then simply dont give them that opportunity.

Personally ,i dont download music or movies. just youtube and veoh watching...

OctavarIan

Getting suspended from Eircom isn't so much a punishment as a favour. Serious uploaders/downloaders aren't even on Eircom anyway.

Krieg

Just found another thread on the BB forum for those interested
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055474230

Terry

Gone Drinking wrote: »

Back to taping songs off the radio, sweet!

Indeed.
I'm going to buy some blank tapes made by Sony too.

The record companies can go and **** themselves.
They screwed us for years with overpriced records, CDs and tapes, all the while giving only a tiny percentage of the takings to the artists.

ShooterSF

Tom65 wrote: »

But surely if someone is downloading through rapidshare/megaupload, the record companies would have to ask those companies for the IP addresses of people who've downloaded their files?

Indeed. Thats why they are targeting people who use P2P as it doesn't require anyone giving private information to anyone. Rapidshare and such aren't as easy to deal with.

ben bedlam

Whats wrong with illegally downloading music and films?

Mena

ben bedlam wrote: »

Whats wrong with illegally downloading music and films?

The bolded, underlined bit is what's wrong.

Terry

I was just talking to a friend about this.
He had a CD in his car. The price sticker was still on the CD.
€24.99 in 2003 from Virgin.

Record companies need to be aware that when people are charged this much for a CD, they are going to jump at an opportunity to get the music free.

Mena

julep wrote: »

I was just talking to a friend about this.
He had a CD in his car. The price sticker was still on the CD.
€24.99 in 2003 from Virgin.

Record companies need to be aware that when people are charged this much for a CD, they are going to jump at an opportunity to get the music free.

I won't argue that, and your earlier point about the actual artists receiving very little of the total amount was, generally speaking, spot on.

Doesn't change the fact that it's illegal though.

Stercus Accidit

The record companies missed the boat when it came to securing the web as a medium, they are fcuked now, its their own fault.

If eircom does cut you off, isnt that a breach of contract?

Brian

Mena wrote: »

I won't argue that, and your earlier point about the actual artists receiving very little of the total amount was, generally speaking, spot on.

Doesn't change the fact that it's illegal though.

Just thought I'd add something on this point: When Radiohead put In Rainbows up for free/pay-what-you-want download, they got an average £1.10 per album downloaded, whereas they got <£1.00 for albums they sold through EMI.

Ally Dick

Mena wrote: »

Am I missing something here? People are stealing copyrighted material and now the owners of said copywrite want to stop them? And people are complaining? I'm too old for this...

Welcome to 2009. People no longer worry whether their activities are right or not. They only care about the best method of avoiding detection !

Mena

Baza210 wrote: »

Just thought I'd add something on this point: When Radiohead put In Rainbows up for free/pay-what-you-want download, they got an average £1.10 per album downloaded, whereas they got <£1.00 for albums they sold through EMI.

Wow, that's really interesting. And yet, not so supriing at all.

Ally Dick wrote: »

Another thing, every time you switch off and on your modem, your IP address changes. This will be impossible to figure out.

It's logged. Simplest thing in the world to figure out actually.

Rsaeire

It's not surprising what Eircom are doing, as the US are carrying out a similar strategy. Infuriated with taking children and grandmothers to court, the RIAA are said to be in cahoots with certain US ISPs and asking for letters to be sent to the ISPs’ customers who are illegally downloading music in a, possible, 3 strike fashion.

This is a more ideal solution for everyone, as it means that only those who are guilty should be contacted and even then, they have 2 opportunities to cease downloading copyrighted material before any action is taken against them; should a 3 strike plan but put into effect.

Biggins

Ally Dick wrote: »

Welcome to 2009. People no longer worry whether their activities are right or not. They only care about the best method of avoiding detection !

O' come on. That's enough about the government! :rolleyes:

Ally Dick

Mena wrote: »

It's logged. Simplest thing in the world to figure out actually.

They don't keep the logs indefinitely though.

Ally Dick

Eircom are cutting their own throats if they follow through on this. People will all sign up to another ISP. I seriously doubt that Eircom are going to do anything about it.