Student Protests

Pen1987 · 22-01-2009 07:19PM

Jeapy wrote: »

My parents slaved away for years to give me, my bro and sister the best education they could. It was ok beacuse fees were free so it was just accomadation etc to be paid. Im the youngest and in my final year so this doesn't affect our family at all, but if it were 6 years ago, money would have been much tighter in the house.

Money was wasted when times were hard and now the government are going to make everyone else pay for their mistakes and it's not fair.

If your parents slaved away for years to put you through college and you were only paying for accom you should be annoyed free fees were introduced. If fees were there and your family were "slaving" you would of been eligible for a grant for your accom and the fees would more than likely have been covered - if your family couldn't legitamately afford them.

Novalee Tasteless Acrobat wrote: »

Higher paid? are you serious? A lot of people leaving college with BA's get the same as a person who just done the leaving cert. It's a load of rubbish.

In fairness, you might start in the same position but graduates move up much quicker and further on average.[/quote]

Seanies32 wrote: »

YEP, the media outcry scared FF off.

As a student and a journalist I think it was more the students and the lefty-lobbies that didn't understand the situation that scared FF off, not the media, they just covered it. FF are a populist party, they wouldn't dare risk upsetting voters, even if it was to the detriment of the country.

It's funny, at all these student protests there are groups like Socialist Youth and Labour Youth. They just see "fees for education" not the fact that the free fees are causing colleges and universities to move towards multinationals and big commercial scientific companies that are ruining the environment in search of funding. Free fees is commercialising/privatising third level institutes not making them bodies of the state. Or more accessible for the ordinary Joe. Look at UCC.

robby^5 · 22-01-2009 08:13PM

I hope all the people who support bringing back fee's enjoy paying through the teeth for their children's college education some day, I have a feeling they'll regret their stance on this matter then.

Dudess · 22-01-2009 08:16PM

Not if I can afford it. And that's the point - it should only apply to people who can.

K-9 · 22-01-2009 08:25PM

robby^5 wrote: »

I hope all the people who support bringing back fee's enjoy paying through the teeth for their children's college education some day, I have a feeling they'll regret their stance on this matter then.

Well, we'd have 18 years to pay for it. Though, thinking about your point, transition measures should be made for a year or 2. I didn't like the way child benefit for over 18's was cut automatically.

Speaking of child benefit, I'm against universal payment too. Michael Smurfits wife boasting about buying herself shoes with it, annoys me.

Super Sidious · 22-01-2009 08:27PM

I think it's more and more important to not introduce fees, its a complete deterent to familys sending their child to college... people who have posted before are saying stuff like "they can pay it back when they get their jobs from their degree"...

Banks are not as willing to give out loans to anyone anymore, and now its harder to get a job, going straight from school to the work force is gonna be impossible soon, you'll nearly need a degree to work in dunnes or wherever at this point!

Theres plenty of other ways for the Government to save money, wage cuts, higher tax bands for the wealthier, stop welfare fraud.

Punishing students of the future is not the way to solve any economic crisis!

Jeapy · 22-01-2009 08:30PM

Pen1987 wrote: »

If your parents slaved away for years to put you through college and you were only paying for accom you should be annoyed free fees were introduced. If fees were there and your family were "slaving" you would of been eligible for a grant for your accom and the fees would more than likely have been covered - if your family couldn't legitamately afford them.

I'm not annoyed about the whole reintroduction thing. I'm annoyed that people abused the system and as a result, now others will have to pay. Like i said, im the youngest and in my final year so it doesn't affect me anyway. My parents were able to afford it because they worked very hard. All i said was that if fees were reintroduced 6 years ago, money would have been tight.

Dudess · 22-01-2009 08:30PM

Seanies32 wrote: »

Speaking of child benefit, I'm against universal payment too. Michael Smurfits wife boasting about buying herself shoes with it, annoys me.

Agreed. I'm from a fairly well-off family and I couldn't understand why my mum was getting a handout when I was a kid. Complete waste.

College fees in this country would be minimal compared to e.g. the US.

K-9 · 22-01-2009 08:44PM

flynner13 wrote: »

I think it's more and more important to not introduce fees, its a complete deterent to familys sending their child to college... people who have posted before are saying stuff like "they can pay it back when they get their jobs from their degree"...

Banks are not as willing to give out loans to anyone anymore, and now its harder to get a job, going straight from school to the work force is gonna be impossible soon, you'll nearly need a degree to work in dunnes or wherever at this point!

Theres plenty of other ways for the Government to save money, wage cuts, higher tax bands for the wealthier, stop welfare fraud.

Punishing students of the future is not the way to solve any economic crisis!

In the UK, the loans can be made through the Govt and paid back through tax.

The problem I have with it is, it hasn't benefited the Disadvantaged areas. It only benefited middle and upper classes who would have send their kids anyway.

I like Dudess idea rather than a straight cut off point.

Dudess · 22-01-2009 08:50PM

Purely from what I've observed since 1996 (I've been based at university on and off since then - either as a student or member of staff) there seems to be an increase in people from lower-income-than-middle-class backgrounds all right, but people from very poor backgrounds - not at all, apart from the exceptions which there'll always be.

Valmont · 22-01-2009 09:00PM

I attend a private third level institute and therefore have to pay fees (roughly 5000 per year). I have loans (well two) out up to my eyeballs and I have to take a year out to work full time before I can afford a masters. I didn't get the points I needed to study psychology in UCD or Trinity and so I took a responsible decision knowing well what I was getting myself into financially. This has definitely helped me to focus mainly on studying and to not waste too much time arsing about.

Surprisingly enough there is still a large portion of my year that are just doing the course for the buzz simply because their parents are absolutely loaded. Many of these students don't work part-time either. So I say bring back fees for those students who have very rich parent's but keep it free for everyone else.

Biggins · 22-01-2009 09:06PM

Valmont wrote: »

I attend a private third level institute and therefore have to pay fees (roughly 5000 per year). I have loans (well two) out up to my eyeballs and I have to take a year out to work full time before I can afford a masters. I didn't get the points I needed to study psychology in UCD or Trinity and so I took a responsible decision knowing well what I was getting myself into financially. This has definitely helped me to focus mainly on studying and to not waste too much time arsing about.

Surprisingly enough there is still a large portion of my year that are just doing the course for the buzz simply because their parents are absolutely loaded. Many of these students don't work part-time either. So I say bring back fees for those students who have very rich parent's but keep it free for everyone else.

Sums it up quite nicely.
You have acknowledged the true value of what you are working towards - and willing more so to work for it in a number of ways.
With that reasonable thinking and actions, you deserve to reap the rewards indeed. Good luck for the future.

K-9 · 22-01-2009 09:08PM

Dudess wrote: »

Purely from what I've observed since 1996 (I've been based at university on and off since then - either as a student or member of staff) there seems to be an increase in people from lower-income-than-middle-class backgrounds all right, but people from very poor backgrounds - not at all, apart from the exceptions which there'll always be.

Not disputing it has had some effect, I think 3rd Level numbers have increased substantially in that time and if the percentages of participation are roughly the same, well it follows the numbers are higher.

I think the higher numbers would have happened anyway with the Celtic Tiger etc.

Shiny · 22-01-2009 09:08PM

I would still like to see my tax money pay for someone
to be put through college as opposed to paying them for
sitting on their hole getting the dole.

I know of several people my age who never bothered going to
college and have now joined the "long term unemployed" category.

They work small amounts of hours in local business's while still
maintaining the right to collect full dole.

I can imagine a similar situation developing if fee's were reintroduced.

This angers me. :mad:

K-9 · 22-01-2009 09:09PM

Dudess wrote: »

Purely from what I've observed since 1996 (I've been based at university on and off since then - either as a student or member of staff) there seems to be an increase in people from lower-income-than-middle-class backgrounds all right, but people from very poor backgrounds - not at all, apart from the exceptions which there'll always be.

Not disputing it has had some effect, I think 3rd Level numbers have increased substantially in that time and if the percentages of participation are roughly the same, well it follows the numbers are higher.

I think the higher numbers would have happened anyway with the Celtic Tiger etc. Also as seen by the controversy when it is ever mentioned, 3rd level is now seen as a right.

robby^5 · 22-01-2009 09:10PM

Seanies32 wrote: »

Well, we'd have 18 years to pay for it. Though, thinking about your point, transition measures should be made for a year or 2. I didn't like the way child benefit for over 18's was cut automatically.

Speaking of child benefit, I'm against universal payment too. Michael Smurfits wife boasting about buying herself shoes with it, annoys me.

Well I'd assume, unless the government want thousands of students to drop out overnight, that there would be some sort of delay so that current students, who have already started degree's under the pretence that they would only be required to pay the €950 (now €1500) registration fee every year, would have time to get their finances in order.

It would be a sort of bait and switch type of move if it is rolled out as quickly as the 67% increase in registration fee's, you're halfway through your degree and suddenly to go into 4th year you're required to pay thousands of euro which you were not required to do for the last 3 years. Most people would have to choice but to go into debt by getting a loan, not exactly the best way to start off in the real world with a huge loan already over your head with things like a mortgage, car loan and insurance(s) to follow...

K-9 · 22-01-2009 09:11PM

Shiny wrote: »

I would still like to see my tax money pay for someone
to be put through college as opposed to paying them for
sitting on their hole getting the dole.

I know of several people my age who never bothered going to
college and have now joined the "long term unemployed" category.

They work small amounts of hours in local business's while still
maintaining the right to collect full dole.

I can imagine a similar situation developing if fee's were reintroduced.

This angers me. :mad:

And many leave college and do the same. I'd say the amount of people doing degrees for the sake of it as increased since the free fees came in.

robby^5 · 22-01-2009 09:16PM

Seanies32 wrote: »

And many leave college and do the same. I'd say the amount of people doing degrees for the sake of it as increased since the free fees came in.

That says more about our unemployment system than the free fee's initiative. Why aren't the government actively helping people with degree's find work? Why are they content to let these skilled people just sit on there arse all day and mooch from social welfare?

Bring back fee's and these people wont bother going to college but they will still be on social welfare, so you end up just punishing the people who actually wanted a degree so that they could go out and earn more money by working.

Guy:Incognito · 22-01-2009 09:21PM

Mingey wrote: »

I did the same as stekelly, but that was in 1997-99

Thats exactly when I did.

stovelid wrote: »

Not to sound like an old cunt, but I too always had part-time jobs in school and uni. If I could get them in the late 80s - late 90s, I find it difficult to believe that it's harder to get something these days.

Having a job didn't affect my grades; it just constricted my spare time which was the price you had to pay to have some cash.

It's not that it's harder to get them but people turn their noses up at workign in McDonalds and the like.
I worked in an electronics retail store for 5 years up to 06 and there was only a bare trickle of kids comeing in with CVs at any stage.

Theres a severe sense of entitlement running through the country.

K-9 · 22-01-2009 09:25PM

robby^5 wrote: »

That says more about our unemployment system than the free fee's initiative. Why aren't the government actively helping people with degree's find work? Why are they content to let these skilled people just sit on there arse all day and mooch from social welfare?

YEP, same as people leaving school and joining the dole. The Govt. can only do so much too.

robby5 wrote:

Bring back fee's and these people wont bother going to college but they will still be on social welfare, so you end up just punishing the people who actually wanted a degree so that they could go out and earn more money by working.

Yep, but they are wasting Govt. funding anyway through free fees.

PS. How do you get the arrow in your username?

Shiny · 22-01-2009 09:28PM

Seanies32 wrote: »

And many leave college and do the same. I'd say the amount of people doing degrees for the sake of it as increased since the free fees came in.

Very True. I cant argue with that.

I don't support the "I don't know what to do....ah sure I'll do an Arts degree"
attitude one bit.

Its complicated. Dammit!:(

Guy:Incognito · 22-01-2009 09:33PM

Dudess wrote: »

Agreed. I'm from a fairly well-off family and I couldn't understand why my mum was getting a handout when I was a kid. .

She didnt have to take it.

Pride Fighter · 22-01-2009 09:39PM

I could not give a monkeys, this coming from a smelly student.

MizzLolly · 22-01-2009 11:14PM

Mingey wrote: »

I think the fees are good, it will sort out the people who actually want an education and are prepared to pay for it from the time wasters who are just enrolled for the buzz.

What about the ones who want an education but simply cannot afford the cost of living, fees, books, bills etc?

stovelid · 22-01-2009 11:20PM

phasers wrote: »

Getting a part time job is pretty hard nowadays actually unless you know somebody who can get you one. Nepotism for the lose.

Even if you were prepared to work for minimum wage in a fast-food outlet, service station, shop or restaurant?

K-9 · 22-01-2009 11:21PM

MizzLolly wrote: »

What about the ones who want an education but simply cannot afford the cost of living, fees, books, bills etc?

They'll get grants same as now and will have to get jobs, same as now.

MizzLolly · 22-01-2009 11:28PM

Seanies32 wrote: »

They'll get grants same as now and will have to get jobs, same as now.

Do you really believe that the grant is enough to cover a students rent, bills, books, fees, etc?

I'm speaking as a student who works and has the grant. I couldn't afford to see the doctor (out of hours) a few weeks back and ended up in hospital. I just did not have the money as the gas bill had come in a couple of days before. Realistically, the government grant does not cover the cost of rent here in Dublin. That's before books, bills, transport etc..!

You can argue this with me until the cows come home, some people honestly believe we get enough but obviously I disagree. I work around my classes and have very little spare time. I've had to work the whole way throughout college in order to afford it. You may not agree or even believe me when I say that it's hard but I know for certain, if these fees come in, I will not be able to stay in college. It's hard enough as it is.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that people should feel sorry for students or that we are not lucky to have the opportunities we have but I do get very frustrated when I hear people say, ''ah sure they can get a grant''. It's not that easy.

Mingey · 22-01-2009 11:31PM

MizzLolly wrote: »

What about the ones who want an education but simply cannot afford the cost of living, fees, books, bills etc?

As quoted from before:

Mingey wrote: »

I agree that it should be means tested for those who simply cannot afford to go, but from what I've heard so far, most of the moaning is from those who can.

K-9 · 22-01-2009 11:37PM

MizzLolly wrote: »

Do you really believe that the grant is enough to cover a students rent, bills, books, fees, etc?

It never was, in my day :eek:, I worked 3/4 nights a week in a bar to pay for it.

I didn't believe the Govt. or my parents had to pay for my choice of education after Leaving Cert. It's a personal choice.

I did get the free fees as I qualified for the grant, that was enough Govt. assistance for me.

MizzLolly wrote:

I'm speaking as a student who works and has the grant. I couldn't afford to see the doctor (out of hours) a few weeks back and ended up in hospital. I just did not have the money as the gas bill had come in a couple of days before. Realistically, the government grant does not cover the cost of rent here in Dublin. That's before books, bills, transport etc..!

Ah, that's different. Students should get medical cards, I agree with that.

MizzLolly wrote:

You can argue this with me until the cows come home, some people honestly believe we get enough but obviously I disagree. I work around my classes and have very little spare time. I've had to work the whole way throughout college in order to afford it. You may not agree or even believe me when I say that it's hard but I know for certain, if these fees come in, I will not be able to stay in college. It's hard enough as it is.

I don't have any problem with what you say there. This isn't about that. I understand that as I did it myself.

MizzLolly · 22-01-2009 11:39PM

MizzLilly? :eek::o

K-9 · 22-01-2009 11:43PM

MizzLolly wrote: »

MizzLilly? :eek::o

It becomes you!

Fixed it MIZZ!

Student Protests

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