Student Protests

Ass

Just got this email from my college.

National Fees Protest

Wednesday 4th February every college in Ireland will come together for
the National Fees Protest in Dublin, demanding education as a right not
a privilege. This is the last big push and with your help we'll win the
argument against the re-introduction of fees. Pop into the office for
more details or to lend a hand lobbying your local TDs and Councillors.

Will you be attending and do you support the smelly students in their struggle(not so much of a struggle)?

Edgedinblue

I intend to go! Was at the one NUIG/GMIT met in Eyre Square. was fun wandering in from GMIT in the lashing rain!

hobochris

Considering the economic plan for Ireland has been to develop a knowledge based economy educational fee's seem counter productive towards this aim. I support the students on this.

mp3guy

Once again, idiotic timing, Wednesday afternoon. In order to attend, you have to skip the very lectures you're protesting against paying for. Defies all logic.

Dragan

Nope, to be honest.

Man the **** up and deal with the fact that we are under a serious crunch here. You can demand all the free education you want, but what is the point when the jobs and the economic climate may not be there to support them when they are done?

SoWatchaWant

I'm a student and I don't support it. Cutbacks must be made.

Where better to make them than people who should be in a position to pay back their fees when they get their better, higher paying jobs?

Plus, it'll stop alot of arsing around and people doing a course for the sake of it.

thebman

mp3guy wrote: »

Once again, idiotic timing, Wednesday afternoon. In order to attend, you have to skip the very lectures you're protesting against paying for. Defies all logic.

They feel giving students a half-decent reason to skip lectures instead of just skipping one to play pool will increase attendance.

They probably aren't wrong :P

I support the students. Fooking stupid to try to reintroduce fees. I'd also put a cap on registration fee's at 300 euro. I'd change it though so if you failed summer exams and had to repeat, you had to pay the repeat fees for summer exams and next years college fees too to stop people taking the p*ss.

It isn't that hard to bloody pass the summer exams. I never had to repeat an exam in college and lets just say I made sure I had a social life

Mingey

I think the fees are good, it will sort out the people who actually want an education and are prepared to pay for it from the time wasters who are just enrolled for the buzz.

Turd Ferguson

SoWatchaWant wrote: »

Plus, it'll stop alot of arsing around and people doing a course for the sake of it.

Thats the best thing about college....

thebman

Turd Ferguson wrote: »

Thats the best thing about college....

You could do that by only charging fees for the first year TBH.

Shiny

I'm nearly finished college myself but I'm still going in to support it.

It would ultimately mean I would be paying for my kid(s) fees
in the future otherwise.

I feel that it is enough to be paying their accomodation costs
without getting done for fees too.

Degsy

Bloody bunch of wasters.
Most of them are well-off anyway so wont bother thier arses turning up to protest about anything.
They find it hard enough getting out of bed before 1pm.

stovelid

Depends on the family income of the student(s) in question.

And the length of their goddamn hair.

neil_hosey

I am in total support of the students here. As mentioned above, the goal is to build a knoweldge based economy, and this can only be done by getting as many people to do the courses they want to do.

You would be singling out alot of people in disadvantaged areas who themselves or their families cant afford to put them through college.

Im not too long out of college but if had to pay fees as well as registration (you already pay 900 odd a year reg + books 200 + loads of other stuff), I dont think i would have been able to get through it financially and even though my parents might have been able to cover it, Im well aware of the amount of pressure it would have put them under (thats not to say they didnt help me out).

If you want to make cuts in the colleges, make the cuts to rediculous amount of money certain lecturers get for not even doing what they get paid for. Make the cuts in the admin departments where Im telling you there are way too many chiefs ( not too dissimiliar to the HSE in this respect).

Theres an awful lot of waste in the colleges, and obviously cutbacks need to be made, but it shouldnt be taken out on the students.

hobochris

Mingey wrote: »

I think the fees are good, it will sort out the people who actually want an education and are prepared to pay for it from the time wasters who are just enrolled for the buzz.

fair enough but what about the under privileged. This move is essentially going to put college back out of the reach of many potential students from working class families.

Dudess

I think fees should be brought back, but rigorously staggered and subject to far more stringent means-testing than before they were abolished. Rich people should be paying full fees, middle-income people reduced fees, low-income people no fees, etc - that's only broadly speaking though, there are several layers within those, and they should be militantly accounted for. Of course I know what I'm suggesting is very idealistic, but it seems the only fair way.

Third-level institutions are absolutely haemorrhaging money - eventually there will probably be no alternative anyway.

corkhero

Theres a lot of people from here heading up to it.

Most just heading on the piss tho from what i can hear around college.

Not sure yet if ill go or not.

thefinalstage

Mingey wrote: »

I think the fees are good, it will sort out the people who actually want an education and are prepared to pay for it from the time wasters who are just enrolled for the buzz.

If fees are introduced I simply cannot afford to go to college. I work for 20 hours a week and I am in college for 35 more hours. Do you work 55 hours a week? Thats not including time spent studying.

I do want to be there. So kindly shut the **** up.

Mark200

mp3guy wrote: »

Once again, idiotic timing, Wednesday afternoon. In order to attend, you have to skip the very lectures you're protesting against paying for. Defies all logic.

I agree. I'm a student and I do care about any proposal to re-introduce fees. I'd be completely against it. But because I value my free education so much, I am choosing to attend college rather than attend the protest



I disagree with anyone who says cut-backs must be made. Fair enough the Government is strapped for cash at the moment, but when the recession is finally over....how exactly are we going to lure all the skills-based companies back?

Shiny

DCU isn't back until the 9th so we have no excuse but to go. :cool:

SEPT 23 1989

Dear students,you are better off having it on a Saturday to allow the private sector workers riot with you

Snowie

thelastangryman wrote: »

If fees are introduced I simply cannot afford to go to college. I work for 20 hours a week and I am in college for 35 more hours. Do you work 55 hours a week? Thats not including time spent studying.

I do want to be there. So kindly shut the **** up.

ever here of a student loan ? in the uk if you go to uni/collage ytou gotta pay for it granted its a crap but thats the way it is...

Ive had to take out 4000 euros in the past to do a course and i didng suceed i learned a valuble lesson, do something you intend on doing.....

so no i dont agree...... Oh where poor student's we can't get collage fee's aib and bank of ireland will give student loans... ive had one and probably will have toget another one when i go back to collage so say la vee;.

Donny5

Ass Face wrote: »

Just got this email from my college.


Will you be attending and do you support the smelly students in their struggle(not so much of a struggle)?

Nope, those students are lazy bums, looking for a chance to go drinking in the streets.

Biggins

Mark200 wrote: »

...Fair enough the Government is strapped for cash at the moment, but when the recession is finally over....how exactly are we going to lure all the skills-based companies back?

Probably the same way as last time, with monetary tax benefits, cheap(er) land for their premises and co-funding etc.

How about a compromise?

Students get cheaper education if they are willing to under take more civic roles in their off time?
Like hospice volunteering, charity work, etc that will also be of benefit to a group or community.
For hours dedicated to such work, they reap the benefits of cheaper collage fees. Just an idea...

PrivateEye

I'll be there as I was at the last one, but I think the USI protests are a joke. Fine Gael and Labour being given the platform to speak? When were they friends of the student movement, students were often protesting moves by LP/FG governments in the past remember. Also, you get the self-advancing S.U kind of bollocks too, with weak speeches that normally go

"Everyone from DIT go WOOOOO!
Everyone from TCD go WOOOOO!
What do we want?"

and on and on and on.

I support and am involved with F.E.E- Free Education for Everyone.
So far the UCD lads have phsyically opposed Brian Lenihan visiting their campus, as have branches in other colleges with other TDs. I think the 'You block our access- we'll block yours' aproach is the only way to deal with the issue. I'm in NUIM and our turnout at the last one was pathetic, so while in the short term I'd like to see more students out on the 4th, ultimately I'd like to see a real grassroots campaign like F.E.E spread further, and incorporate education workers from secondary schools etc. too. Tie in all the education cuts to one broad campaign.

Also, I'll never forget being told I couldn't fly a red and black flag on the last march as the issue "Wasn't political" :rolleyes: Thats S.U politics. Least we forget the Dublin S.Us held a 'Stop Climate Change' march two years ago, thats how soft and cuddly liberal they are. Bollocks to that at this stage.


Plus: The issue should be reversing the rise in the registration fee.

Snowie

and the other ironic thing is afetr the protest where will all the students be in the pub....

Wagon

I support the students fully. I'm only finished myself. Wouldn't have been able to afford it if it wasn't free fees. Worked part time like most students and supported myself pretty much but there's no bloody way I could have been able to afford 20 grand or so. The knowledge economy argument is spot on as well. Reintroducing fees merely cuts off those who are unable to afford it.

Student loans are a bad idea too. It will just deter people from going to college. Who wants to graduate with a 20 grand debt on their shoulders? Unless you were jumping straight into a high paying job (that daddy get's for you) you're going to be paying that off for a good few years.

Also, a lot of students are really pushed into going to college right after leaving school. They rush into a decision before they're even sure they want to do it, realise they hate it and drop out. Rather that pushing school leavers right into a college course, why not give them a few years to make up their minds? They're only about 17 - 18 so they're still young. Better to go to college at 23 and do something you enjoy and work at rather than waste a year doing something you didn't know you despised.

One of my mates went to college for two years, realised that his course was of no use to him as his priorities and interests had changed, dropped out and worked. He knew what he wanted to do instead but had to work for a year in order to save up the fees. In his situation, it delayed him. He likes what he's doing now though.

Many arguments about "bum students" and "get a job" is a proper cop out. Put the shoe on the other foot for a moment and ask yourself if you were 19, had a college course you knew you wanted to do but your parents didn't have the 15 grand neccissary to pay for the three years, wouldn't you be even a little bit pissed off? I don't trust the educational board (or whoever does it) to be able to assess households correctly either. The problem doesn't lie with free fees, it's more to do with secondary school's attitudes to third level education. Or maybe I'm taking out my arse, I don't know. I still support the students.

neil_hosey

Snow-Monkey wrote: »

ever here of a student loan ? in the uk if you go to uni/collage ytou gotta pay for it granted its a crap but thats the way it is...

Ive had to take out 4000 euros in the past to do a course and i didng suceed i learned a valuble lesson, do something you intend on doing.....

so no i dont agree...... Oh where poor student's we can't get collage fee's aib and bank of ireland will give student loans... ive had one and probably will have toget another one when i go back to collage so say la vee;.

So what if the UK dont pay fees??? whats that got to do with us? Im guessing that you never had the benefit of gng to college and not having a massive 30000 grand loan on your back when you leave, or maybe your just bitter about the fact that you have to pay now, instead of availing of it when you were young (not trying to be smart, but dont understand your motives for saying that). There is enough personal debt in this country, we dont need anymore.

If the point your trying to make is that we need to make cuts, I agree, but we shouldnt be putting that blame on students who already have higher rent, costs of living and college expenses (other than fees) than most Uni's and Colleges in the UK (id assume )

As i mentioned in my previous post, cuts can be made in the colleges ie.. rediculously high paid profs, badly run admin departments (experienced this first hand) etc..

PrivateEye

Snow-Monkey wrote: »

and the other ironic thing is afetr the protest where will all the students be in the pub....

Went to O' Donoghues after the last one, whats the problem with that?
I've never seen some Dublin pubs as packed as they were after the Irish Ferries demo, work is the curse of the drinking classes and all that :pac:

Probably will be fcuked with a rise in the cost of going to college (working part-time at the minute, but thats up in the air obv.) but give us the odd pint for now!

Mark200

Biggins wrote: »

Probably the same way as last time, with monetary tax benefits, cheap(er) land for their premises and co-funding etc.

How about a compromise?

Students get cheaper education if they are willing to under take more civic roles in their off time?
Like hospice volunteering, charity work, etc that will also be of benefit to a group or community.
For hours dedicated to such work, they reap the benefits of cheaper collage fees. Just an idea...

I'd actually agree with that. Although...I'm not sure how feasible that idea actually is, for example checking to make sure people actually did do this and not just forge a signature or something.

But yeah, if it was possible to bring in a system like that I think it'd be a good idea. I've never done charity work before, but I'd like to and that would give me motivation.

As well as that, people may find out they actually like it and will continue to do it after they've earned their free education.

I don't know if you actually meant your idea to be taken seriously, but yeah...I like it.

HalloweenJack

In an economic crisis, third-level education is going to help turn things around in the future, as it did in the past. That's where the Celtic Tiger came from. Free education led to a better educated population who spoke fluent English and that's where all the companies came in.

The registration fee is a big joke as well. It's quietly being pushed up. Up about a hundred euro from last year and it'll be up another 600 next year. What a joke.

Yes, the colleges are losing money but they jsut have to manage their money better. I agree that cts need to be made to Gov spending but how about starting with the unnecessary things, like paying the GAA players.

I am adamantly against the fees being re-introduced. It'll cut off education for the poorest and if they can't get third-level education in this time, what can they do? Apprenticeships are drying up, so are other service jobs. Free education would at least give them a chance to learn something, instead of ****ing them over.

Wagon

neil_hosey wrote: »

SAs i mentioned in my previous post, cuts can be made in the colleges ie.. rediculously high paid profs, badly run admin departments (experienced this first hand) etc..

Yeah. Professers getting paid nearly 100 euro an hour in some places. Work 22 hours a week and they make more than I do in a month. Doesn't mean that they're any good at what they do either. Administration was an absolute shambles where I was too.

Biggins

Mark200 wrote: »

I'd actually agree with that. Although...I'm not sure how feasible that idea actually is, for example checking to make sure people actually did do this and not just forge a signature or something.

But yeah, if it was possible to bring in a system like that I think it'd be a good idea. I've never done charity work before, but I'd like to and that would give me motivation.

As well as that, people may find out they actually like it and will continue to do it after they've earned their free education.

I don't know if you actually meant your idea to be taken seriously, but yeah...I like it.

Yep, I meant it as a possible serious suggestion. Just an idea but it would also have the benefit of showing to others that there is not just "Lazy students".

The American military offerers a similar service/benefit. Well as we don't have need for a huge army as such, the same principle idea behind such benefits to students, could still apply.
Free college courses (or cheaper costing ones) in return for civic duty.
In these days of economic tightness, it's just a suggestion to think over...

brianthebard

Free fees benefit most the people that can afford to pay fees. If fees are re-introduced they are only going to be taken from wealthy families. I don't care.

neil_hosey

Wagon wrote: »

Yeah. Professers getting paid nearly 100 euro an hour in some places. Work 22 hours a week and they make more than I do in a month. Doesn't mean that they're any good at what they do either. Administration was an absolute shambles where I was too.

100 grand?? try double that and add some and you get what some of the higher paid ones in the universities are on, its a disgrace. I had one aswell in my final year, possibly the worst lecturer in my four years at uni.. Made me sick when i seen him on TV about how much money he aws getting.

asdasd

Also, I'll never forget being told I couldn't fly a red and black flag on the last march as the issue "Wasn't political"

maybe your co-protesters thought that people who are anarchist and therefore opposed to the very existance of the State, shouldn't be demading more funds from the State.

Nothing more ridiculous than the middle class anarchists, and/or socialists demading more money for privileged students which must come from people who dont go.

brianthebard

PrivateEye wrote: »

I'll be there as I was at the last one, but I think the USI protests are a joke. Fine Gael and Labour being given the platform to speak? When were they friends of the student movement, students were often protesting moves by LP/FG governments in the past remember.

The last Lab/FG government introduced free fees.

Mark200

brianthebard wrote: »

Free fees benefit most the people that can afford to pay fees. If fees are re-introduced they are only going to be taken from wealthy families. I don't care.

And then it comes down to parents who don't want to pay for their son or daughters education. Or parents who have many children.

Snowie

neil_hosey wrote: »

So what if the UK dont pay fees??? whats that got to do with us? Im guessing that you never had the benefit of gng to college and not having a massive 30000 grand loan on your back when you leave, or maybe your just bitter about the fact that you have to pay now, instead of availing of it when you were young (not trying to be smart, but dont understand your motives for saying that). There is enough personal debt in this country, we dont need anymore.

If the point your trying to make is that we need to make cuts, I agree, but we shouldnt be putting that blame on students who already have higher rent, costs of living and college expenses (other than fees) than most Uni's and Colleges in the UK (id assume )

As i mentioned in my previous post, cuts can be made in the colleges ie.. rediculously high paid profs, badly run admin departments (experienced this first hand) etc..

I dont care about if i have to pay to go back to collage its something i can except happilly.... My point being if other countrys have to do it why shouldnt ireland ? whats makes us so spechil... The world does not O any one a living, so why the hell should the public have to pay for student's.. It looks like this is the only way collages will be able to support them selves and i dont think its such a bad thing eather.... Like you say admin will book up ideas and people who pretend that they actuly do something will find them selves like me In the dole cue..... I there not showing that there working...

PrivateEye wrote: »

Went to O' Donoghues after the last one, whats the problem with that?
I've never seen some Dublin pubs as packed as they were after the Irish Ferries demo, work is the curse of the drinking classes and all that :pac:

Probably will be fcuked with a rise in the cost of going to college (working part-time at the minute, but thats up in the air obv.) but give us the odd pint for now!

and you 10 euros for 24 botels of beer in lidil will do 3 nights out...
20 quid to get into the club do what ever yother student in the past has done rub pints or my personal favourite HUSSEL your drink which can offten leave you pulling a lady

Wagon

Biggins wrote: »

Yep, I meant it as a possible serious suggestion. Just an idea but it would also have the benefit of showing to others that there is not just "Lazy students".

Nice idea in theory I suppose, but each course is different. Not all students are Art students and have to go in before 12pm. Also, many work part time. And we had to study a bit too. We had to get our few scoops in at the weekends to, but you can't deny a man his pint whether he's 18 or 80

Stercus Accidit

Simple fact, this will hit the less fortunate worst.

Do you want colleges to contain only posh spoilt lazy brats?

Do you want these people to be your boss?


Or do you want people from harder backgrounds (even the lower middle classes may find it a strain) to have the opportunity to compete with the privileged elite, raising the bar and getting a more diverse selection of hard working people.

Or is it a case of know your place, born working class die working class, and be glad that your wonderful yuppy boss had the money to go to college.

Nonsense, we may as well cut back on water supply, medicine, electricity and all go back to banging rocks together and dying off in famines.

Will do this country the world of good, might thin the herd of useless bastards we have now.

brianthebard

Mark200 wrote: »

And then it comes down to parents who don't want to pay for their son or daughters education. Or parents who have many children.

Remind me again why I should feel sorry for middle class kids who's parents are rich?

Dudess

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

Simple fact, this will hit the less fortunate worst.

Do you want colleges to contain only posh spoilt lazy brats?

Do you want these people to be your boss?


Or do you want people from harder backgrounds (even the lower middle classes may find it a strain) to have the opportunity to compete with the privileged elite, raising the bar and getting a more diverse selection of hard working people.

Or is it a case of know your place, born working class die working class, and be glad that your wonderful yuppy boss had the money to go to college.

Well then, what about making rich people pay and poor people not pay? That's why I think fees should be brought back, just not the same amount across the board.

brianthebard

Dudess wrote: »

Well then, what about making rich people pay and poor people not pay? That's why I think fees should be brought back, just not the same amount across the board.

That's what was suggested last I heard, which is why its so hard for the poor rich kids to organise mass support for themselves...

Guy:Incognito

thelastangryman wrote: »

If fees are introduced I simply cannot afford to go to college. I work for 20 hours a week and I am in college for 35 more hours. Do you work 55 hours a week? Thats not including time spent studying.

I do want to be there. So kindly shut the **** up.

When I was in 4th-6th year in scholl I worked Thurs and Fri nights 5-10 and sat & sun full days. Some weeks I'd add another night shift or 2.

The problem now is people seem to be afraid to be away from their firends/the pub/the computer for more than 8 hours a day.

Life is hard, deal with it.

Everyone seems to admit cuts need to be made, but it's increasily based on whether it effects them or not. So when theres no cut backs in education, health, pensions, social welfare and the public sector, who exactly is left to foot the bills? Should everyoen int he private sector just kill themselves or what?

Wagon

Stekelly wrote: »

When I was in 4th-6th year in scholl I worked Thurs and Fri nights 5-10 and sat & sun full days. Some weeks I'd add another night shift or 2.

The problem now is people seem to be afraid to be away from their firends/the pub/the computer for more than 8 hours a day.

Life is hard, deal with it.

What year was that in? Not being sarcastic but I can't see how a school student can work nowadays. And if they can it's rare. I couldn't get a job as the bloody school discouraged it. Couldn't get a job over the summers either as I had no work experience in the first place and I was probably too young at 16 - 17 to be taken seriously.

Pen1987

The free fees only benefited the middle and upper classes who could already afford to pay frees. Why do you think the Uni's and Colleges have become awash with parking problems in the last ten years? I'd bet there is not one college paper that han't run a story on the lack of parking around the institute in the lat two years. Students got loads more money to spend on cars, money they could of spent on fees. Poorer students had their grants cut - the grants that would of been funded by the fees of wealthier students.

If fees were brought back they would benefit the poorer students through better grants, if implemented correctly.

Oh *disclaimer* I'm a college student, middle class and edit a college newspaper

phasers

My brothers are college sudents, but they're not going because they have lectures then work. Bloody posh w*nkers who can afford to pay anyway with "down with this sort of thing" signs thinking they're brilliant protesting tbh.

Fees should be re-introduced on a means tested basis.If your parents earn over 100k a year, you pay fees.

Dudess

I think it should be more intricate than that - full fees for households with that kind of income (or less) and getting smaller and smaller the further down the scale you go til you reach the people who shouldn't have to pay anything - or next to nothing anyway.

I know it would be difficult to figure out where to draw the lines though.

Pen1987

phasers wrote: »

My brothers are college sudents, but they're not going because they have lectures then work. Bloody posh w*nkers who can afford to pay anyway with "down with this sort of thing" signs thinking they're brilliant protesting tbh.

Fees should be re-introduced on a means tested basis.If your parents earn over 100k a year, you pay fees.

Noel Dempsey suggested that but was "protested" down.

Mingey

thelastangryman wrote: »

If fees are introduced I simply cannot afford to go to college. I work for 20 hours a week and I am in college for 35 more hours. Do you work 55 hours a week? Thats not including time spent studying.

I do want to be there. So kindly shut the **** up.

I work and I'm in college also. I do these things because I want to be in college too and I need to survive. I am not taking up a place in the course from some nonce who 'just wants a degree for their CV. I like my course and I am interested in what I am studying. Many of my friends were those nonces and I hate hearing them moan about wasting their time in courses they didnt like, and not using the degrees that they gained.

I agree that it should be means tested for those who simply cannot afford to go, but from what I've heard so far, most of the moaning is from those who can.