The IAA, "The Shop" and the other organisation - Moved from the PQ Thread

iceage · 23-12-2008 03:16AM

FFS guys...would you get a ****ing grip all of you. Mods how have you let this continue? I have stayed out of this but have been sitting on the IAA website, not a word NOT ONE WORD!! of this bull**** appears there..

We are all aware of the traffic here, nearly 5000 views of this thread in 2 days! we are constantly told that if we have a problem with the IAA take it up with the IAA on they're site. Mods there are questions to be asked.

not for a minute going to take sides here thats impossible, and I believe people know where my alliances lie, we have to show a strong front here, but this is what happens.. I have my own opinions but this **** has to end now. This is without doubt counterproductive to the Sport.

Wacko · 23-12-2008 03:25AM

Wow I´ve read 17 pages of this and I don´t even play airsoft ! I deserve a medal if I may say so myself, everyone on here should just take a deep breath in and out, take it easy, think before you type, festive good will and all that. And remember you might someday meet that person you have just insulted in your post and they might be a lot bigger, stronger and tougher looking than you imagined, so don´t say anything you wouldn´t say to their face;).

Masada · 23-12-2008 03:33AM

i think most people have formed their opinions based on meeting this person., and weather hes big and strong makes no difference, what, hes "gonna getcha" coz ya dont agree with his ways?
The fact is that he wants control and doesnt give a sh*te about "airsofters"., in fact, out of all the shops and sites ive met, i would say every one of them were started from players originally, whereas a certain someone has no interest in the hobby, just the dosh it brings. cant say ive ever heard of them gaming,.,

FingalAirsoft · 23-12-2008 03:41AM

iceage wrote: »

FFS guys...would you get a ****ing grip all of you. Mods how have you let this continue? I have stayed out of this but have been sitting on the IAA website, not a word NOT ONE WORD!! of this bull**** appears there..

We are all aware of the traffic here, nearly 5000 views of this thread in 2 days! we are constantly told that if we have a problem with the IAA take it up with the IAA on they're site. Mods there are questions to be asked.

not for a minute going to take sides here thats impossible, and I believe people know where my alliances lie, we have to show a strong front here, but this is what happens.. I have my own opinions but this **** has to end now. This is without doubt counterproductive to the Sport.

If this debate where to take place on the IAA forum then only a small sector of the community would see it, so it suits the mods and IAA to allow it to go on boards.ie which has been biased from the start in favour for the IAA. As we all know.. the IAA was born here, so when it is under threat as an organisation from another start up organisation they need maxium exposure to try and discredit it. I have never seen so many IAA commitee memebers post in one thread, as stated before if we are to discuss the IAA or the said retailer the thread would be locked. Yet we continue tearing ourselves a new one: Wait for the statement from the IASRA before you pass judgement.

So lets just all leave it at that and cool down.....

Wacko · 23-12-2008 03:51AM

vtec wrote: »

i think most people have formed their opinions based on meeting this person., and weather hes big and strong makes no difference, what, hes "gonna getcha" coz ya dont agree with his ways?
The fact is that he wants control and doesnt give a sh*te about "airsofters"., in fact, out of all the shops and sites ive met, i would say every one of them were started from players originally, whereas a certain someone has no interest in the hobby, just the dosh it brings. cant say ive ever heard of them gaming,.,

I presume you are referring to my post, I haven´t a clue who you are talking about:o, I was talking metaphorically about everyone, basically trying to tell everyone, take it easy and think before you type,

Shiva · 23-12-2008 04:01AM

Ok....I was out with Doc and Vtec for the first Annual Eirsoft Christmas Pissup, and was watching some of this on the oul iphone....I didn't bother replying because I couldnt be arsed using the touchpad.

Anyway...some very quick points before I go to bed....

1) Please dont stop going to a particular skirmish site because of this. That wont benefit anyone. I've spoken to a lot of the people who were at this meeting, and I believe some people were there with the best of intentions.

2) Please lay of Kiwi/The Warehouse. I spoke to the lads for quite a long time about this meeting the day after it happened, and they were, to a man, disgusted that myself and other retailers werent included. They didnt know until they showed up that we hadnt been invited. They dont agree with everything that was discussed, and in fact were quite animated in their assertions that they would be voting to change a lot of what they heard. You can't fault them for that.

3) Kiwi is debating his points rationally. I dont agree with all of them, but he outlined most of what he's said in the posts he's made above to me personally, and from reading above, to the IAA, in person. He's actually being quite rational, and stating his beliefs, in my opinion, without a hidden agenda. I have no doubt he has airsoft's interests at heart. He'd be stupid not to, considering what he has invested in The Warehouse. Stop attacking the person and attack the post if you disagree.

4) There are a lot of people here who werent at that meeting (myself included, as you might have gathered

) who are presuming to know what went on. The fact is, those of us who werent there, dont know. However, I spoke to seven people who were at the meeting, and all but one of them told me of some things that were said, and never made it into the published minutes. These six people all agreed on the basics of what was said, without my prompting or feeding, and frankly, what was said is disturbing. The fact is that initially, there WERE attempts to limit who can join, and there were, quite frankly, ridiculously slanderous comments made to justify why they would not be allowed to join. Fortunately, these restriction attempts were abandoned when the person proposing them was admonished.

5) It actually might be quite beneficial to have a body representing airsoft's commercial interests. But in no way should it be a body that aims to replace the IAA. And before anyone says "oh but thats not what its about"....I beg to differ. A few people I spoke to said thats exactly what it was about.

In closing....I know there were people there who attended out of a sense of duty to airsoft and their businesses. But you can argue all you want, the fact remains that the person or persons who called this meeting deliberatly and cynically didnt bother to invite any of the retailers who they thought would have opposed them and their agenda. This is an unarguable FACT, and it demonstrates in no uncertain terms that the person behind this fiasco did NOT act out of any sense of duty or care for airsoft, but in a callous attempt to push his own agenda. As usual.

I'm done for the night. Its going to be yet another manic day in the shop tomorrow, so I doubt I'll get a chance to respond to anything else thats said over the next 18 hours, so goodnight, and Merry Christmas to you all.

Dar · 23-12-2008 04:07AM

FingalAirsoft wrote: »

If this debate where to take place on the IAA forum then only a small sector of the community would see it, so it suits the mods and IAA to allow it to go on boards.ie which has been biased from the start in favour for the IAA.

Ah yes, the incredibly biased forum which gave a certain individual a second chance after breaking god knows how many boards rules.

As we all know.. the IAA was born here,

Of course it was born here. Not to sound condescending, but in the old days this forum was the pretty much the center of the airsoft community in Ireland. You should ask players who have been playing for more than a year how many of them found out about the sport on this forum, or through someone on the forum. So yes it was on this forum that people started to discuss the need for a representative body.

gandalf · 23-12-2008 09:09AM

kiwi84000 wrote: »

It seems quite clear that he is showing the clique I was referring to earlier and quite clearly the background organization of positions within the IAA. Including commercial interests.

Also the fact that the IAA could not release the information does not negate the fact that I was not informed from "Those representing me" that our sport was not about to be banned.

Currently

Scumbag: I wanna buy tha glock:
Retailer: sure do you know how to use it and what to do with it?
Scumbag: eh no I just wanna shoot my neighbors cat:
Retailer: Sure that will be 300 Euro Safety is there have fun.

A CLIQUE !!!!! THIS FROM SOMEONE WHO WAS INVOLVED IN A SECRET MEETING WITH SELECTIVE INVITEES. YOU ARE A HYPOCRITE.

gandalf · 23-12-2008 09:36AM

OK I joined as a mod here to counter the percieved IAA Bias on this forum. I have been a moderator of boards since its inception and have moderated some of the major sections on these forums including being Category Moderator of the Society Section.

I have had public disagreements with the out going committee of the IAA and whilst I am a member I have tended to be on the critical side of the fence.

I was a supporter of Derek Talbot and despaired at the farce that occured in March when things blew up the first time. I couldn't figure out why people could not sit down together and sort things out.

Things went on and in July Derek got site banned from Boards for duplicate accounts being set up to continually troll his agenda about the IAA.

I fought to get him back and here are the emails below that came at the end of that process.

gandalf - July 9th 2008 wrote:

Derek,

I have resolved this. You will be banned from the airsoft forum for a week, it will be backdated to last Thursday so in reality you are banned for one more day. I will open the Gorse Hill and MIA threads tomorrow when you are unbanned.

I need you to steer clear of any threads about the IAA, I will be advising anyone with any queries or opinions about them to take it to their forums (sure they need the traffic anyway).

I had to fight tooth and nail to get you back in (for some reason the lads have you off their Christmas card lists!) as I said on the phone the other night. Unfortunately the sting is if you step out of line again it will be a permanent ban from the Airsoft forum. You need to let your son know that acting the maggot like that just causes grief for everyone, I spent a fair bit of time sorting this out and I would be very disappointed if its wreaked by rubbish like that again.

I will be posting an outline on the two locked threads as to what happened because there has been a lot of interest from the community over this. If you have any issues with modding or posts that are appearing on the forum give me a shout via email, pm on boards or the phone.

All the best,

Paul.

Derek-July 10th wrote:

Cheers Paul

There is no fear of any more crap on Boards, we are moving to irishairsoftforums and there is something big in the pipe line, I will tell you on the phone.

Cheers

Derek

I found out afterwards what everyone else told me. Someone went back on their word.

Since then I have had an opportunity to see the outgoing IAA committee working and they are good. I went up to Northern Ireland to attend a meeting with some of the Northern Players and to hear their concerns for their sport and the extreme damage the UKARA situation has wreaked on the ability for the sport to grow. The inclusion of the Northern Irish players which was ratified at the IAA AGM is the fruit of this meeting. That was the IAA lads and ordinary players like me and an other who attended.

Far from being biased or a sheep I am an 39 year old who works in IT Security is quite intelligent and can recognise a pup when I see one. This so called new organisation is bourne from bad blood and its agenda at the core is the control of airsoft by commercial interests.

Busta Hyman · 23-12-2008 09:43AM

you know what. i havent paid my membership for the IAA partly because i was spending my spondoolicks on mags and trying to get a second gun and sidearm. this thread has convinced me im in lads at my next trip to eirsoft i will be paying my subs. and as for the shops wanting my personal details for there database can go and F**K right off . i would submit to a gardai background check but not to go on a mailing list. they also want to make sure they dont loose that info .... can you imagine the financial cost to the companies involved and the damage to the sport when that goes public. i will be purchaseing from affiliated members

Puding · 23-12-2008 09:53AM

It actually might be quite beneficial to have a body representing airsoft's commercial interests. But in no way should it be a body that aims to replace the IAA. And before anyone says "oh but thats not what its about"....I beg to differ. A few people I spoke to said thats exactly what it was about.

I find this rather interesting, there was/has been attempts to get just such a body up and running and communicating with the iaa, the idea was to have a retailers body chaired by independent person with nothing to do with airsoft, this person would then talk to the iaa as a independent unbiased intimidatory, and people agreed to do this but it has been blind sided by recent events of the last day or so.

kdouglas · 23-12-2008 11:21AM

iceage wrote: »

FFS guys...would you get a ****ing grip all of you. Mods how have you let this continue? I have stayed out of this but have been sitting on the IAA website, not a word NOT ONE WORD!! of this bull**** appears there..

We are all aware of the traffic here, nearly 5000 views of this thread in 2 days! we are constantly told that if we have a problem with the IAA take it up with the IAA on they're site. Mods there are questions to be asked.

FingalAirsoft wrote: »

If this debate where to take place on the IAA forum then only a small sector of the community would see it, so it suits the mods and IAA to allow it to go on boards.ie which has been biased from the start in favour for the IAA. As we all know.. the IAA was born here, so when it is under threat as an organisation from another start up organisation they need maxium exposure to try and discredit it. I have never seen so many IAA commitee memebers post in one thread, as stated before if we are to discuss the IAA or the said retailer the thread would be locked. Yet we continue tearing ourselves a new one: Wait for the statement from the IASRA before you pass judgement.

So lets just all leave it at that and cool down.....

While there is a general rule of "Questions for the IAA - Take it to their forum", this thread, however, is about more than just the IAA, it is also largely about this new organisation and honestly, quite a lot of negative things have been said about both sides, so how you think there is a bias here I dont know, every member of this forum is free to give their opinion on the matter, if it's leaning towards the IAA's favour, then maybe that's just because there are more supporters in this forum than detractors.

In comparison to previous threads about the IAA/MIA and other similar hot topics, this one is actually quite civilized.

Interestingly, only 3 posts were reported in this thread, and at that, the issue behind them was resolved by the time I received the reported posts.

If you have a problem with a post, use the report button.

kdouglas · 23-12-2008 11:23AM

I'd also like to echo the statement from the Vice-Chairman of the IAA.

Alot of history exists between certain individuals. The new committee of the IAA is exactly that a new committee, the invitiation has been extended on this thread for both sides to meet and discuss the best way forward for the future of airsoft. Will that invitation be answered?

extremetaz · 23-12-2008 12:12PM

Lethal_Bullet wrote: »

No point, minors arent allowed to be elected.

But, if the IAA want any help, they have my details:D That reminds me, must finish that skin for sean(extremetaz), forgot due to exams, sorry:p

exams come first dude - don't be worrying!

extremetaz · 23-12-2008 12:54PM

kiwi84000 wrote: »

I am not saying they couldn't do the job. I am saying that I dont agree with some of the policies of the IAA and I dont feel that I deserve the abuse you are spouting for attempting to come up with an alternative.

ATTEMPT!?!?!?

what "attempt" have you made???

what have you done? eh???

not a DAMN THING over the life of the sport to date - and now that this *businessmans club* tickles your fancy you claim the right to rubbish the efforts that have been made!?!?!

and no - it's not that you couldn't do the job - it's because you *wouldn't* do the job, because you, like so many others couldn't be bothered.

the primary thing you're out to protect is your investment, nothing more - the fact that that happens to line up with this sport means nothing.

extremetaz · 23-12-2008 12:56PM

kiwi84000 wrote: »

As I was never a member of the IAA I saw no reason to read the constitution. I know their policies from my research and my discussions with them and I personally disagree with some of them.

puts you in a great position to comment alright doesn't it... :mad:

extremetaz · 23-12-2008 01:01PM

ok - i'm stopping now.

apologies for lost composure although I'm not going to change anything as I still meant every bit of it.

people - please take the time to inform yourselves properly before listening to whispers and tinfoil hat types. It would save sooo much hassle.

kiwi84000 · 23-12-2008 03:43PM

extremetaz wrote: »

ATTEMPT!?!?!?

what "attempt" have you made???

what have you done? eh???

not a DAMN THING over the life of the sport to date - and now that this *businessmans club* tickles your fancy you claim the right to rubbish the efforts that have been made!?!?!

Taz I think its quite clear what we are trying to do. I have stated many times that we are trying to set up. If you dont want to believe that I have the best intentions of the sport in mind then its a trust issue you have with me. Not with anyone else.

extremetaz wrote: »

and no - it's not that you couldn't do the job - it's because you *wouldn't* do the job, because you, like so many others couldn't be bothered.

Your partially correct. I was happy to just go out and skirmish/set up my own business. That was ofcourse until the minister said he was going to ban the sport. I was invited to a meeting heard the policies and then had a choice. I disagree with some of the IAA policies and I disagree with some of the IASRA policies.

Then I made my choice on this thread to discuss it out here. After getting attacked and called a hypocrite for not only attending a meeting but also for discussing what I consider valid issues with the IAA I made my choice.

extremetaz wrote: »

the primary thing you're out to protect is your investment, nothing more - the fact that that happens to line up with this sport means nothing.

Taz if you spoke to anyone who knew me before I set up the business you would not say that at all. Not to mention the fact that I would be STUPID not to try and protect my investment. Stating that it is my primary concern is right. That dosent make any of my points invalid or change the fact that I am doing it for airsoft.

extremetaz wrote: »

puts you in a great position to comment alright doesn't it...

So your telling me that I am not allowed to discuss the IAA or its policies until I read what you say?

Funny seeing the abuse that has been hurled at the new organization before the constitution is available.

extremetaz wrote: »

ok - i'm stopping now.

apologies for lost composure although I'm not going to change anything as I still meant every bit of it.

people - please take the time to inform yourselves properly before listening to whispers and tinfoil hat types. It would save sooo much hassle.

Can you please explain to me what whispers and tinfoil hats types you are talking about here taz? I think I have backed up pretty much everything I have said. But because I have issues with policies i am a tinfoil hat type?

Grow up

gerrowadat · 23-12-2008 04:06PM

+1 to what Shiva said. While the people (well, let's face it, person) involved in this new body might have personally been a fly in many people's ointment (mine included), I'm interested to see what this new body stands for, represents, and how it will operate.

I think it's premature to start boycotting sites. I've visited non-affiliated sites and stores, they're good businesses and deserve to be successful. That they don't choose to affiliate with the IAA for whatever reason is their choice -- the IAA has always been about inclusiveness and the furtherance of the sport, so airsoft businesses being successful is in all our best interests. However, we will never be exclusive. As things stand now, it will never be a requirement to be an IAA member to purchase AEGs, and we will never ask for information that is not required to be compliant.

I think the #1 thing that needs to get sorted is that the airsofting community has a united voice when dealing with the DoJ. Personal differences aside, the worst thing that can happen right now is for a second body to turn up at the DoJ and say "Yeah, forget all that IAA nonsense, here's what -we- want". This basically destroys any credibility both bodies might have, and has the potential to do the exact opposite of what the new body wants.

I've said it previously on-thread, but we're willing to talk and try to sort our differences out. These are old wounds, and talking is better than not talking. We've received no communications from the executive of this new body. We realise it's early days for them, but as prominent players and members of the community, we think it would be remiss of the new body not to invite the IAA committee to their next meeting. It would be a show of good faith that our goals are aligned, and that we are not in competition.

(Also, as an aside, I've talked to kiwi and the warehouse lads off-thread, and I can understand their POV. The Warehouse lads have their heads screwed on tightly, and I'm confident that they'll play a part in keeping both the IAA and this new body honest.)

Dave, IAA Vice-Chair

-PornStar- · 23-12-2008 04:11PM

kiwi84000 wrote: »

So your telling me that I am not allowed to discuss the IAA or its policies until I read what you say?

No but in order to make an informed decision about ANYTHING you need to know ALL the facts. If not you are just making assumptions. They may or may not be the correct assumptions, but you are assuming none the less.

kiwi84000 · 23-12-2008 04:13PM

-PornStar- wrote: »

No but in order to make an informed decision about ANYTHING you need to know ALL the facts. If not you are just making assumptions. They may or may not be the correct assumptions, but you are assuming none the less.

I never said that my issues were with the constitution I said it was with the policies which I have spoken to the IAA about. So the point is moot. And btw I have since read the constitution. So if you want to drop that subject its fine.

Jay TLR · 23-12-2008 04:44PM

extremetaz wrote: »

and no - it's not that you couldn't do the job - it's because you *wouldn't* do the job, because you, like so many others couldn't be bothered.

I have to disagree with this being constantly thrown out there. Just because someone chooses not to have anything to do with the IAA does not mean they are 'not bothered' or somehow letting the whole airsoft comminuty down. It could also mean they don't have much faith in the IAA, perhaps a reason for the terrible turn-out at the AGM? This is borne from all the little clangers and mistakes made by the original committe. Unfortunetly the new committe has to face the reprecussions of that. I for one am not prepared to join the IAA. I have never met an IAA committe member, I don't know who they are, and I've been playing for over a year. I tried to join a year ago, sent my application and didn't hear from them from months, until they wanted money from me. This put me off. The constant suggestion that not joining IAA is somehow un-faithful to the sport is also not fair. I'm entitled to not like the way an organisation allows itself to be perceived. I'm entitled to not like the way it's message is being spread. I will weight up what this new organisation has to offer just like I did with the IAA. Hopefully they won't try shove their opinion down my throat, because that's what I feel the supporters of the IAA on this forum are constantly doing. Rather than lambast the people who don't support it, why not try be proactive and see where it's failing and try improve it?
You will have to get down off your big white horse first though.

kinkstr · 23-12-2008 05:06PM

Jay TLR wrote: »

I have to disagree with this being constantly thrown out there. Just because someone chooses not to have anything to do with the IAA does not mean they are 'not bothered' or somehow letting the whole airsoft comminuty down. It could also mean they don't have much faith in the IAA, perhaps a reason for the terrible turn-out at the AGM? This is borne from all the little clangers and mistakes made by the original committe. Unfortunetly the new committe has to face the reprecussions of that. I for one am not prepared to join the IAA. I have never met an IAA committe member, I don't know who they are, and I've been playing for over a year. I tried to join a year ago, sent my application and didn't hear from them from months, until they wanted money from me. This put me off. The constant suggestion that not joining IAA is somehow un-faithful to the sport is also not fair. I'm entitled to not like the way an organisation allows itself to be perceived. I'm entitled to not like the way it's message is being spread. I will weight up what this new organisation has to offer just like I did with the IAA. Hopefully they won't try shove their opinion down my throat, because that's what I feel the supporters of the IAA on this forum are constantly doing. Rather than lambast the people who don't support it, why not try be proactive and see where it's failing and try improve it?
You will have to get down off your big white horse first though.

Very Well said.

TheDoc · 23-12-2008 05:12PM

Tigger wrote: »

ok

<drpepper> looks like im going for chair
<Shiva> want me to nominate u, Dave ?
<gerrout> If you would.
<gerrout> Looks better than a self-nomination since a lot of people probably haven't met me in person
<gerrout> "On the grounds that he is good at vice (vice) and is comfortable to sit in (chair)"
<Shiva> o'Connor, yeah ? Or O'Connel ?
<Shiva> I know is OC
<Fayer> This is like a political cue being staged by the hawks......
<drpepper> muhahaaha
<drpepper> world power is mine
<Fayer> Get Doc and MR2 in as well !
<conor-mr2> lol
<drpepper> Richie for Tech
<drpepper>
<Shiva> could richie run ?
<drpepper> DOC as sec
<conor-mr2> is there a bus driver position
<Fayer> That woudl be a good vote at the AGM
<Shiva> Whats Gerrouts surname ?
<Shiva> o'Connor ?
<drpepper> yah
<drpepper> David O'Connor
<drpepper> also sure Richie could run
<Shiva> even though he works for me ?
<Shiva> kinda a commercial interest
<drpepper> he hasnt got a vested interest
<Fayer> Just dont pay him Tony and he is fine
<drpepper> same with sas-c

some days work is quiet

Sorry i just have to come in here, to just say, get a ****ing clue you muppet.

For god sake the irc channel is a laugh and a half where we all chat about many things, the mere fact it was mentioned as to put me as secretary cements its absolute comedic value.

Sigh....

Stercus Accidit · 23-12-2008 05:19PM

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote: »

Sorry i just have to come in here, to just say, get a ****ing clue you muppet.

For god sake the irc channel is a laugh and a half where we all chat about many things, the mere fact it was mentioned as to put me as secretary cements its absolute comedic value.

Sigh....

I'm sure they meant a secretary in a skirt also. :P

Christ, taking things way out of context eh, get a job with a tabloid tigger, might suit ye.

Hivemind187 · 23-12-2008 05:36PM

Jay TLR wrote: »

I have to disagree with this being constantly thrown out there. Just because someone chooses not to have anything to do with the IAA does not mean they are 'not bothered' or somehow letting the whole airsoft comminuty down.

Couldnt agree with you more. However, it does negatre any rightthey might have to critiscise or to comment since they themselves are making no tangible effort to alter this state of affairs. The options are there to do so and one "elects" to either take part or be inactive - would you agree?

Jay TLR wrote: »

It could also mean they don't have much faith in the IAA, perhaps a reason for the terrible turn-out at the AGM?

Leap of logic I'm afraid. Correlation does not imply causation.

1) It could be conincidence that a poor train and bus service that day (matter of record) combined with airport problems (at least for one member) and numerous other mundane things prevented folks from turning up.
2) It could be that the usual issue of those with nothing to gripe about did not feel at all compelled to sacrifice a whole Sunday afternoon. As with most things, the content majority say little while the discontented minority make a disproportional ammount of noise.
3) It could be that there are those who did not make themselves aware of the AGM. This has been shown to be the case in a half dozen members I have spoken to. Considering the fact it was advertised months in advance the blame can not be laid at the feet of the committee.

Jay TLR wrote: »

This is borne from all the little clangers and mistakes made by the original committe. Unfortunetly the new committe has to face the reprecussions of that.

And what "clangers" would these be? Considering that I am one of the "original committee" you are scolding I would like to know, specifically, what "clanger" you are referring to- if only to be given the chance to answer for my obviously hideous crime.

Jay TLR wrote: »

I for one am not prepared to join the IAA. I have never met an IAA committe member, I don't know who they are, and I've been playing for over a year.

I've never met Arnold Swarzenegger but I've been watching his films since I was 4. I'm 26 now which means I've been waiting 24 times as long to meet Mr Terminator than you have been waiting to meet someone you wouldnt recognise since you "done know who they are". Could it be possible you have already met one and didnt know it?

As for you not being prepared to join I would ask you a very simple question. Why?

Is it that ou have a problem with the "old committee"?
- Have you addressed this issue directly?
Is there something in the published policy that you dont like?
- Have you addressed this issue directly?

I could go on but I think you get what I'm saying.

Jay TLR wrote: »

I tried to join a year ago, sent my application and didn't hear from them from months, until they wanted money from me. This put me off.

1) Any properly filled out application form was accepted in the last 12 months and a membership number applied to that application.
2) Emails have gone out to everyone of the membership from time to time. Our response numbers were low due to an unbelievable number of invalid email addresses.
3) Re Contact: Does you insurance company phone you to have a chat and a cup of tea? Do you phone or email them if you are expecting something that you do not receive or if you have a question you would like answered?

Jay TLR wrote: »

The constant suggestion that not joining IAA is somehow un-faithful to the sport is also not fair.

Arguable.

Jay TLR wrote: »

I'm entitled to not like the way an organisation allows itself to be perceived.

Yes you are.

You are also entitled to do something about it by joining up and voting rather than engaging in muttering and hand wringing.

You are not entitled to complain if you do nothing to alter the situation.

Jay TLR wrote: »

I'm entitled to not like the way it's message is being spread.

Yes you are.

You are also entitled to do something about it by joining up and voting rather than engaging in muttering and hand wringing.

You are not entitled to complain if you do nothing to alter the situation.

You might think that the last two answers are intended to wind you up or insult you. they arent. they are a simple statement of fact.

Consider a man who is starving but has food in front of him. People pass and ask "why dont you feed yourself" to which he responds "I'm waiting for someone else to do it for me". People ask "Is there something wrong with your arms?" to which he responds "No, I'm just waiting for someone to do it for me - why wont someone feed me?" and the man, eventually, dies. Food in front of him.

Who is wrong? The people for not feeding the man who can feed himself or the man for not making the miniscule effort to fix his problem by lifting a spoon or fork and shovelling lovely grub into his mush?

Jay TLR wrote: »

I will weight up what this new organisation has to offer just like I did with the IAA.

You're entitled to.

Jay TLR wrote: »

Hopefully they won't try shove their opinion down my throat, because that's what I feel the supporters of the IAA on this forum are constantly doing.

Hold up a moment here. You are offended by what you perceive as the IAA being shoved down your throat?

Can you explain this please?

The fact is that the IAA has been absent from this board since the first quarter of this year (the mods will confirm this). No active information dissemination, argument or advertising has been present. This was hugely to the detriment of the IAA but for the sake of the harmony of the forum the committee backed off.

Where have people forced the "IAA" doen your throat? Show the posts please so that we can all take a fair look at them. Perhaps you misunderstood something? Perhaps, and I think this is more likely, you are talking about some minor disagreement you have with individual members and you are attributing the cause of your disagreement to the entire group.

Jay TLR wrote: »

Rather than lambast the people who don't support it, why not try be proactive and see where it's failing and try improve it?

The IAA has been around in a constituted form for 1 year. It is manned by part-time volunteers who still have to hold down jobs. You seriously expect an organisation which is in its infancy to be absolutely perfect from the get go? Thats naiive in my opinion.

The call for a body to be "proactive" is dulled by the inaction and absence of interaction by those who want change. The opportunity to change things was presented to you and you did not choose to take up that opportunity.

If you want to see improvements made, committee members who drop "clangers" gone, if you want the message changed and the perceptions changed then there is only one way to do that. You sign up and you vote.

Jay TLR wrote: »

You will have to get down off your big white horse first though.

Irony, thy name is Jay.

Witcher · 23-12-2008 05:39PM

Jay TLR wrote: »

I have to disagree with this being constantly thrown out there. Just because someone chooses not to have anything to do with the IAA does not mean they are 'not bothered' or somehow letting the whole airsoft comminuty down. It could also mean they don't have much faith in the IAA, perhaps a reason for the terrible turn-out at the AGM? This is borne from all the little clangers and mistakes made by the original committe. Unfortunetly the new committe has to face the reprecussions of that. I for one am not prepared to join the IAA. I have never met an IAA committe member, I don't know who they are, and I've been playing for over a year. I tried to join a year ago, sent my application and didn't hear from them from months, until they wanted money from me. This put me off. The constant suggestion that not joining IAA is somehow un-faithful to the sport is also not fair. I'm entitled to not like the way an organisation allows itself to be perceived. I'm entitled to not like the way it's message is being spread. I will weight up what this new organisation has to offer just like I did with the IAA. Hopefully they won't try shove their opinion down my throat, because that's what I feel the supporters of the IAA on this forum are constantly doing. Rather than lambast the people who don't support it, why not try be proactive and see where it's failing and try improve it?
You will have to get down off your big white horse first though.

Where is it failing?

People on ths forum are quick to point to faults but not to answers. (thats not directed at you jay tlr..just as a general thing)

TheDoc · 23-12-2008 05:49PM

Haha yeah, I'm a real pro when it comes to making the coffee

Anyway im going to stop posting, cause god forbid i might say something humorous

whydave · 23-12-2008 05:54PM

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote: »

Haha yeah, I'm a real pro when it comes to making the coffee

But do you bake your own cookies ??????

Stercus Accidit · 23-12-2008 05:57PM

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote: »

Anyway im going to stop posting, cause god forbid i might say something humorous

I think we are safe enough in that regard.

The IAA, "The Shop" and the other organisation - Moved from the PQ Thread

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