The IAA, "The Shop" and the other organisation - Moved from the PQ Thread

Witcher

Tigger wrote: »

yes but did shiva know about the commitees discussions with the doj when we were all running around signing petitions?

Can i just ask what is your obsession with shiva in this matter?

Tigger

re time stamps etc

i´m pissed
i´m in tenerife
im gonna be busy when im in sligo and sober

so no timem stamps for ye

but call me a liar if ye want

cos i´m not one


thats how it went down and it6 happened on eth day nominations were made


i´m far too lazy to fabricate something like that


i9f i was gonna lie it´d be aall spelling mistakes and lizxzards

gerrowadat

Yes, Shiva nominated a bunch of people for IAA committee positions. This is a matter of public record, as you can read on the IAA forums. What's your point exactly?

I think there's some confusion over what you're asking wrt tiered affiliates. Let me give you the basic timeline.

1) IAA say they're meeting with Charles Flanagan. Shiva comes to this meeting as an affiliated retailer, to present sales figures and be a retailer representative at the meeting with CF. As I understand it, he offered to do this.

2) IAA recieve an email from the DoJ saying that as a result of the meeting with CF, things are going our way. Shiva is not told about this mail, as it was not addressed to him. IAA spends several days confirming the mail, because it doesn't gel with comments made by the minister. It is confirmed. Shiva is (as I understand it) not told about the mail.

3) IAA AGM. Shiva, along with the rest of the attendees, are told about the mail. Ta-da.

Tigger wrote: »

i´m not trying to prove anything

that is what was discussed as the nominations were being made for iaa
m
these nominations were made and those nominated ran unopposed


so this was the discussion that decided the iaa commitee 08´09



but hey

i was trying to air some issues that my fellow non decideds will feeel

pepper is comming out with we´re knew or we´re not aWARE of the issues so these are the issues

lies and a two tier system


thats why some peoplke will join the iasciawyyz

i won´t coz i´m dyslexic and iaa is just easier to remeber

anyhow can i have a direct and officioal answer did shiva know before the rest of us

(btw i´m on record as saying that shiva has done loads for airsoft and that he is the ryanair of airsoft and that i´d have o leary run this feck up of a country)

FingalAirsoft

gerrowadat wrote: »

The conversation continues...

Scumbug: So how do I join?
Retailer: No bother, here's a form, I can sign you up now, it's free.
Scumbug: Okay, one membership form and one glock, cheers bud.

Hive has explained the limited scope of the IAA database. It does not surrender information that the person who queries it doesn't already have. It was designed by a professional IT person, reviewed by our dedicated Legal advisor, and will probably have its source code reviewed by several other It professionals, probably wome of whom have at one point done information security for a living. You don't just will a database into existence -- you need to be compliant with the law, you need to justify /why/ you need each piece of information, and you have to make sure the data is accurate, secure, retained properly, and administered properly.

I don't know exactly why this body would want to, or need to know which devices people had. Airsoft guns do not have unique serial numbers. It is impossible to tell which retailer it came from, or who owned it. What happens if my airsoft gun gets nicked? What happens if I sell it? What if I sell it to someone and the database doesn't get updated, and it gets upgraded and discovered? Can you describe to me a scenario whereby a person misuses an airsoft gun and is brought to justice because of this database?

I want to make a couple things clear, since it seems a book has been written since I last weighed in on this thread:

- Please do not boycott any retailer or site over this. This only serves to make the damage this new body is causing worse.
- The IAA has never refused a body affiliation.
- The IAA is prepared to talk to Derek or anyone involved in this new body in the spirit of making sure voices are heard. Personal differences -are- aside. The IAA committee are different people from who they were 6 months ago when the MIA thing went down. **** happens. Let's talk.

Scumbug: So how do I join?
Retailer: No bother, here's a form, I can sign you up now, it's free. Just provide two forms of I.D. for the garda background check.
Scumbag: Ehhh I'll be back to you bud.

The whole point is to give the retailer a choice on who he sells to.

Tigger

Blay wrote: »

Can i just ask what is your obsession with shiva in this matter?

did he know before us ?
thats the quesyion

gerrowadat

Tigger wrote: »

yes but did shiva know about the commitees discussions with the doj when we were all running around signing petitions?

He was -at- the meeting with Charles Flanagan. If you're talking about if he knew about the emails exchanged that said things were going our way, then I dont think he did, no.

Witcher

Tigger wrote: »

did he know before us ?
thats the quesyion

But why him?

Tigger

gerrowadat wrote: »

Yes, Shiva nominated a bunch of people for IAA committee positions. This is a matter of public record, as you can read on the IAA forums. What's your point exactly?

I think there's some confusion over what you're asking wrt tiered affiliates. Let me give you the basic timeline.

1) IAA say they're meeting with Charles Flanagan. Shiva comes to this meeting as an affiliated retailer, to present sales figures and be a retailer representative at the meeting with CF. As I understand it, he offered to do this.

2) IAA recieve an email from the DoJ saying that as a result of the meeting with CF, things are going our way. Shiva is not told about this mail, as it was not addressed to him. IAA spends several days confirming the mail, because it doesn't gel with comments made by the minister. It is confirmed. Shiva is (as I understand it) not told about the mail.

3) IAA AGM. Shiva, along with the rest of the attendees, are told about the mail. Ta-da.

yer the best one (brilliant replacement for ronan)i hope you are around when or if the crap hits the airconç



did yer shims work?

gerrowadat

FingalAirsoft wrote: »

Scumbug: So how do I join?
Retailer: No bother, here's a form, I can sign you up now, it's free. Just provide two forms of I.D. for the garda background check.
Scumbag: Ehhh I'll be back to you bud.

The whole point is to give the retailer a choice on who he sells to.

Wait, so now you're doing garda background checks on anyone who wants to buy an AEG?

I have no words. Seriously. Are you actually trying to destroy Airsoft?

Also, the retailer has a choice on who he sells to. You just don't sell if you don't like the looks of someone. End of.

Hivemind187

FingalAirsoft wrote: »

Scumbug: So how do I join?
Retailer: No bother, here's a form, I can sign you up now, it's free. Just provide two forms of I.D. for the garda background check.
Scumbag: Ehhh I'll be back to you bud.

The whole point is to give the retailer a choice on who he sells to.

Sorry ...

BACKGROUND CHECK???

Are you ****ing high????

Fallschirmjager

Tigger wrote: »

ok

<drpepper> looks like im going for chair
<Shiva> want me to nominate u, Dave ?
<gerrout> If you would.
<gerrout> Looks better than a self-nomination since a lot of people probably haven't met me in person
<gerrout> "On the grounds that he is good at vice (vice) and is comfortable to sit in (chair)"
<Shiva> o'Connor, yeah ? Or O'Connel ?
<Shiva> I know is OC
<Fayer> This is like a political cue being staged by the hawks......
<drpepper> muhahaaha
<drpepper> world power is mine
<Fayer> Get Doc and MR2 in as well !
<conor-mr2> lol
<drpepper> Richie for Tech
<drpepper>
<Shiva> could richie run ?
<drpepper> DOC as sec
<conor-mr2> is there a bus driver position
<Fayer> That woudl be a good vote at the AGM
<Shiva> Whats Gerrouts surname ?
<Shiva> o'Connor ?
<drpepper> yah
<drpepper> David O'Connor
<drpepper> also sure Richie could run
<Shiva> even though he works for me ?
<Shiva> kinda a commercial interest
<drpepper> he hasnt got a vested interest
<Fayer> Just dont pay him Tony and he is fine
<drpepper> same with sas-c


some days work is quiet

christ, tigger, honestly dude, step away from the keyboard, you tinfoil hat has slipped off, the aliens are on the way with the probe...

please go to www.abovetopsecret.com you will find the guy who shot JFK over there....tell lee harvey and elvis i was asking for them...

ffs, now its the illumanati using chat taking over the IAA...

so let me understand this tigger, the IAA was taken over on a chat session on a public site? they could not have used, oh and i spitballing here, you know, a phone...?? no no no, use something far more secure..ah yes a public chat forum filled with airsofters...
Please tell me you dont actually believe that? If you do believe it, let me know which sites you play and when, i dont want to be there when you go postal . Honestly dude, wake up and stop drinking your water, the flouride is affecting you...

if this is what the anti iaa crowd are like, thanks you have just sealed my membership with the IAA

Seriously now, to all the anti iaa people, is this what you believe?? because quite frankly you need to up your meds if you do.

i too am off to bed, if this is now passing for discussion......

now using secret iaa hanshake, only us fake iaaers know...tigger my left trouser leg is rolled up...do you know what that means...??

Tigger

Blay wrote: »

But why him?

well they were hardly gonna tell you

(this is a humerous comment and not ment to cause offense )

FingalAirsoft

gerrowadat wrote: »

Wait, so now you're doing garda background checks on anyone who wants to buy an AEG?

I have no words. Seriously. Are you actually trying to destroy Airsoft?

Ok I forgot a :rolleyes:... no we are not doing checks (it was a joke), it was just an example of how a retailer can put off a potential idiot buying from him!

But I still stand by the fact a proof of ID could help reduce the amount of undesirables purchasing airsoft devices.

Lemming

FingalAirsoft wrote: »

Retailer: No bother, here's a form, I can sign you up now, it's free. Just provide two forms of I.D. for the garda background check.

I'm sorry. Come again? Garda background check?

Lomarticus

FingalAirsoft wrote: »

Scumbug: So how do I join?
Retailer: No bother, here's a form, I can sign you up now, it's free. Just provide two forms of I.D. for the garda background check.
Scumbag: Ehhh I'll be back to you bud.

The whole point is to give the retailer a choice on who he sells to.

Garda background check?
Did AEGs become lethal since I left work today?
Where the HECK is this going to end-up going?

Tigger

Fallschirmjager wrote: »

christ, tigger, honestly dude, step away from the keyboard, you tinfoil hat has slipped off, the aliens are on the way with the probe...

please go to www.abovetopsecret.com you will find the guy who shot JFK over there....tell lee harvey and elvis i was asking for them...

ffs, now its the illumanati using chat taking over the IAA...

so let me understand this tigger, the IAA was taken over on a chat session on a public site? they could not have used, oh and i spitballing here, you know, a phone...?? no no no, use something far more secure..ah yes a public chat forum filled with airsofters...

thats what happened

Please tell me you dont actually believe that? If you do believe it, let me know which sites you play and when, i dont want to be there when you go postal . Honestly dude, wake up and stop drinking your water, the flouride is affecting you...

if this is what the anti iaa crowd are like, thanks you have just sealed my membership with the IAA

i´m not antui iaa i´m putting forward the thoughts that orthers hyave

oh an´ pepper (liar for what ever reason) asked for p`roof

Seriously now, to all the anti iaa people, is this what you believe?? because quite frankly you need to up your meds if you do.

there is frankle too much yer mad if you don´t believe us crap

i too am off to bed, if this is now passing for discussion......

now using secret iaa hanshake, only us fake iaaers know...tigger my left trouser leg is rolled up...do you know what that means...??

means yer a second tierer:cool:

Tigger

Lemming wrote: »

I'm sorry. Come again? Garda background check?

i have nothing to fear

bring it on:eek:

Rhinocharge

Fallschirmjager wrote: »

christ, tigger, honestly dude, step away from the keyboard, you tinfoil hat has slipped off, the aliens are on the way with the probe...

please go to www.abovetopsecret.com you will find the guy who shot JFK over there....tell lee harvey and elvis i was asking for them...

ffs, now its the illumanati using chat taking over the IAA...

so let me understand this tigger, the IAA was taken over on a chat session on a public site? they could not have used, oh and i spitballing here, you know, a phone...?? no no no, use something far more secure..ah yes a public chat forum filled with airsofters...
Please tell me you dont actually believe that? If you do believe it, let me know which sites you play and when, i dont want to be there when you go postal . Honestly dude, wake up and stop drinking your water, the flouride is affecting you...

if this is what the anti iaa crowd are like, thanks you have just sealed my membership with the IAA

Seriously now, to all the anti iaa people, is this what you believe?? because quite frankly you need to up your meds if you do.

i too am off to bed, if this is now passing for discussion......

now using secret iaa hanshake, only us fake iaaers know...tigger my left trouser leg is rolled up...do you know what that means...??

Post of the Year.................... :D:D

gerrowadat

FingalAirsoft wrote: »

Ok I forgot a :rolleyes:... no we are not doing checks (it was a joke), it was just an example of how a retailer can put off a potential idiot buying from him!

But I still stand by the fact it could help reduce the amount of undesirables purchasing airsoft devices.

No, it couldn't. It's a complete straw man.

If you don't want to sell to someone, you just don't. You don't need to give a reason. If you don't like the looks of a person, you say "I am not selling this to you". If they ask why, you point at your "Management reserves the right to refuse sale" sign. The End.

I'm still waiting on an actual scenario where a database with what AEGs everyone owns is used for any reason apart from direct marketing.

o1s1n

Tigger - stop with the nonsensical crap or you'll be banned. One and only warning.

Tigger

I didn't know we had a king. I thought we were an autonomous collective.

i go now

Busta Hyman

a couple of points after the pub


background check or not you cant register an airsoft device as it has no serial no

i would rather no background check but if as an airsofter i need to submit to one i do so knowing i have no problem with the authorities

a lot of this is political bullsh** and is dividing the sport if this continues i have about 250 quids worth of gear im gonna have to hand over and im not gonna be a happy bunny. and i kno a lot of you guys have a shi* load more invested

its time a few ppl grew up and just get there heads over there arses we need to unite behind the current organisation that already have a dialogue with the powers that be ffs. stfu already

/end_rant

/commence_ban

OzCam

Scumbug: So how do I join?
Retailer: No bother, here's a form, I can sign you up now, it's free.
Valued Customer: Jaysus, bud, that's just like buying a handgun in Texas, wha?

or

Scumbug: So how do I join?
Retailer: No bother, here's a form, I can sign you up now, it's free. Just provide two forms of I.D. for the Garda background check. It'll take between 10 and 30 days, depending on how busy they are. Don't worry, it's just like the check they do for working with children.
Valued Customer: Jaysus, bud, that's like buying a handgun in California, or Massachusetts or some bleedin' place. Hold on a fcukin' minute, are you calling me a pervert?


This folks, is satire. The idea is almost beyond parody. We thought the UKARA was bad...

OzCam

gerrowadat wrote: »

I'm still waiting on an actual scenario where a database with what AEGs everyone owns is used for any reason apart from direct marketing.

If When it falls into the wrong hands, I'm sure that person will find something to do with it.

MAD Ozzie

But what if the Scumbag opens the shop??

Busta Hyman

MAD Ozzie wrote: »

But what if the Scumbag opens the shop??

generally that happens after hours an then its usually a call to a locksmith with the "ive lost me keys" ****e ........ i get it all the time

Stercus Accidit

This pretty much sums it up IMO.

JOHN MC

i would just like to say to people who are taking names of the people that attended the meeting of the irish airsoft sports that i was meant to go but could not make it.
i thought no-one was suppose to mention m.i.a (derek) or the IAA so since everyone is talking about m.i.a & the IAA does that mean were all banned now?????????????

Busta Hyman

no apparently mcd took a lawsuit its a sticky at the top of the boards .....

kiwi84000

Hivemind187 wrote: »

Garbage. Do not attempt to change the facts to suit your chosen avenue of attack. Go back and read the statement Tigger made and this is what he offered as supporting evidence. He did not elude to cliques, he made a specific accusation that there is a two-tier situation in the IAA.

Irregardless of what Tigger was doing that to me screams clique.

A clique (IPA:/'klɪk/ in America, /'kliːk/ elsewhere) is an exclusive group of people who share interests, views, purposes, patterns of behavior, or ethnicity.

Pay to join and nominating friends provides the exclusive group part and the rest is pretty self explanatory.

Hivemind187 wrote: »

This "evidence" is nothing short of pathetic. No time stamps are provided to indicate when it took place and it is entirely unrelated to his accusation. Furthermore, the manner in which people converse with one another, in a chat room, at christ knows what time and where they could be viewed by anyone provides no evidence of a "clique".

Look above

Hivemind187 wrote: »

People are entitled to befriend one another whether you approve of it or not - it has no baring on their ethics or whether they can do the job. I did not know Sean or Conor or Dar or Dave or Stephane or Stephen before I worked with them on the IAA. That I call them my friends now is based on their worth to me as individuals which is something earned over time when you work closely with people.

I am not saying they couldn't do the job. I am saying that I dont agree with some of the policies of the IAA and I dont feel that I deserve the abuse you are spouting for attempting to come up with an alternative.

Hivemind187 wrote: »

So what are you actually trying to say here? That you cant have a voice because there is some conpiracy to silence you? I invite you to count the number of people who put themselves forward for the job that these individuals took on.

Do I look like I have a tinfoil hat on my head? I clearly dont have a voice as you require me to pay for the "privilege". Nor by your very rules would I have been able to stand for office.

On top of that if I had paid and voted for someone then I as someone with a vested interest is voting for someone to represent me a business.

Of the people who attended the meeting there was a possible choice of roughly 14 people who could vote. Counting the people in that discussion I see 5 people with another 3 mentioned. So 8 total in a clique voting for who they previously discussed for positions.

It was impossible for them to loose. Again I am quite surprised to see an organization representing all airsofters, sites and retailers with so few people at an AGM.

The "secret, behind closed doors takeover" meeting held last Thursday would actually rival your AGM in terms of numbers.

Hivemind187 wrote: »

Let me tell you something about information and reality mate.

You can not just plonk information into the public domain to make people happy. You have to fact check what you are saying. You have to seek the right to reproduce and to quote. You have obligations upon obligations not the least of which being to ensure that everything that you say from an offical position is up to date, factual and correct. Other wise you are letting down the very people you are supposed to be helping.

All of this work takes time. Sorry if it wasnt done quickly enough for your tastes.

As I have stated before whether the IAA could or could not give me the information was irrelevant. I was working from the assumption that AIRSOFT WAS GOING TO BE BANNED. This was clearly not the case and as a result I attended a meeting to defend and represent the sport of airsoft where I voted on measures that might provide an alternative to BEING BANNED!

Hivemind187 wrote: »

As for your snidy little "those representing me" - Up until thursday by all accounts the IAA did represent you (as a member of the responsible airsoft community - unless you are aknowledging yourself as being an irresponsible member!).

What a flawed argument. By that right I am now part of a new organization representing YOU. Unless you are a criminal and such.

Also the IAA may have represented me as an airsofter however it did not represent me as a legitimate business

Hivemind187 wrote: »

If you would like to show me all the other organisations which were representing the airsoft community I would dearly love to see them and ask them why the hell they werent pitching in?

There were none before. Now there is. Why cant we work together instead of this turning into a excrement throwing competition, which lets face it, this thread is.


Quite clearly you are not a fan of Derek from MIA. Fine. Derek is not the be all and end off of this new organization.

Quite clearly you have an issue with the introduction of a database for AEG's. I propose a new thread to be started without all this political baggage to discuss the benefits and problems with this proposal.

Clearly you are of the opinion that airsofters should have to pay to have the sport saved. I propose a new thread to discuss the benefits and problems of the possibilities.Member pays while affiliates don't, Affiliates pay while members dont and both paying.

Drop those three points and lets see where the discussion on a second organization goes?