The IAA, "The Shop" and the other organisation - Moved from the PQ Thread

FingalAirsoft

Fallschirmjager wrote: »

All people had to do who were pissed off, was attend the agm and vote, end of clique (if it ever existed), end of anything you didnt agree with, but they chose this route.

That is not possible as the voting was done online Clique voting each other back in.

i would like to wish you good luck with you endeavour, but quite frankly i would not be telling the truth...i can say this however, happy christmas, that i do mean.

Happy Christmas to you too:)


Bren

horgan_p

Here's a little excercise for anyone who cares.

1) look at the list of attendees of this love in meeting

2) taking a pen , draw a line through the attendees who either are supplied by or "sponsered" by Derek/ MIA

3) Count how many people are left.

Its quite simple , the invitees were chosen from a customer list.

Tommyboy71

FingalAirsoft wrote: »

On my count there was 7 regular skirmishers present, again this was a meeting to discuss the formation of the organisation.

My question was "How many were invited?" If you want to form an organisation, you call on the all of the people that it will represent to have their voices heard. You don't just get those you know or get on well with and organise it among yourselves.

You give everyone a chance to get their ideas of what they would like to see happen. You look for support. Then you go ahead and organise a meeting. You do not just set it up. You do not then proceed to tell everyone "Oh, by the way, If you want to buy that you must join my group".

It has been said that it was done because of comments made in the Dail. People were afraid that their livleyhoods were at stake, which I will not go against. God forbid any of the business suffer. But, everyone was aware that the IAA were working hard to put in place proposals to lessen the impact of what the Minister was proposing.

Could this New Organisation not have waited until the outcome was known?

Puding

That is not possible as the voting was done online Clique voting each other back in.

With the numbers involved in the agm, 10 people could have joined the iaa turned up and completely changed the way it is run...

but sorry most people are sheep, all talk and no proactive involvement.

Tommyboy71

<snip>

Puding

This whole thing was done while there was a panic.

ow panic may have been used, but i do not believe any of this has been done in panic the pieces have been,, been moving around the board for some time know

*DOBBY*

:mad:Well I've sat now and read all the posts.....
Before I start I'm not affiliated with anybody except my selection of Airsoft guns etc.:P

I normally don't get in to posting, I like a quiet life and prefer skirmishing but with such a hotly debated topic as this I couldn't not throw my 'near boiling ' thoughts into the pot.
I as an Airsoft player primarily want to just get out and play. Yes i thought about joinng up with the IAA a while back but I'm not big into organsiations. The fact that they say the represent all aspects of the community with or without membership, I was kind of happy to run along with that, I still skirmished they talked to the DOJ sorting out the issues at hand.( Hats off to the work the have put in on a personal level.)It didn't affect my weekend skirmishes on a personal level. So if the IAA wanted to run with being an organisation representing airsoft , so be it.

Only with the recent events with the proposed changes to the Firearms legislation did I start taking an interest in the fact that the Iaa were claiming to represent all Airsofters and putting forth a proposal to the Doj. I know this was up on their website for some time and I briefly looked at it.
I was p***ed off to think that some committee I had nothing to do with was making decisions on my behalf( and all Airsofters). I take exception to anybody representing me or my beliefs without my agreement.

Then I hear about this alternative group "Peoples front of Judea... Judeans people front... or Splitters , if you like".
After a read of the minutes of their first meeting ... well my blood was boiling even more. To me it made the IAA look like my best friend.
Nobody will tell me where to buy, play or have data bases with my info about airsofting. That day comes and I'm quitting Airsofting.

I don't wish to be a part of any organisation, I'm sure i'm not alone in that thought . There are plenty of us who just wish to play.

I personally agree that we need to have some form of channel open with the DOJ but just until Airsofting is seen as the good sport it is, by the wider community.
After all the game is based on honour, keep the restrictions to a minimum. Play safe and Enjoy it.

defenderdude

*DOBBY* wrote: »

:mad:Well I've sat now and read all the posts.....
<snip>
...After all the game is based on honour, keep the restrictions to a minimum. Play safe and Enjoy it.

what he said. +1

OzCam

I went to the IASRA website this morning, with an open mind. After all, they might have had some good ideas, or something useful to say.

I was, frankly, very disappointed. From the minutes, the AGM sounded like a two-man show. I'm not surprised there were so few doubting voices raised, it reads like they didn't get much of a word in edgeways. Probably were left sitting there stunned.

The website looks like a clone of the IAA's. Yes, those bulletin boards are pretty standard, but they could have made some effort to differentiate it. Others have managed to do so.

Which, along with the timing of this thing, makes me think the IASRA is just a spoiler.

I'm not surprised at some of the names on the attendee list, but saddened to see some others. I hope they went along to see what it was about, and will think better of it on "mature reflection".


I have major issues with the idea of a commercial entity having details of my private property. Any retailer, Shiva, Rhino, even MIA themselves, have a perfect right to hold sales records for what I've bought from them and when. What I buy elsewhere is none of their business. (That's not intended to sound harsh, just factual. A responsible retailer wouldn't care anyway, s/he's not liable for something s/he didn't sell.) I would reluctantly acquiesce to the DoJ, or even the Guards having a list of my devices if necessary (and it looks like it won't come to that, thank the God/dess), but absolutely not some organisation whose commercial imperative is to make money from that information.

It also looks like there's been no thought given to the Data Protection or privacy implications of that scheme. Where do you think you are, the US? This is Europe, we have laws about this stuff. Anyone proposing it seriously needs to sit down with a lawyer, a DP expert and a security expert right now, before they get themselves into trouble.

And in other comments...

Tigger: for fcuk's sake give it a rest. You've asked the same question umpteen times, and you've been given the same answer every time. The Gov't, DoJ, politicians and Civil Servants don't operate on internet time, and they don't respond immediately because you're jumping up and down like your namesake. The IAA released the info as soon as they felt they could do so. They had an obligation to tell their own members at the AGM first. You have not been lied to, and if you had that person would have felt my wrath by now. The rat you're smelling is a figment of your imagination. The world doesn't run on your clock, Get Over It.

kiwi8400: the IAA announced what they could, when they could. As was made crystal clear several times at the AGM, they still don't have permission to release the entire correspondence. They don't have permission. They're not allowed to. Please email anyone on the committee, and they'll explain it to you again.

Falls: thanks for the intelligent posts. But please don't feel you have to boycott everyone immediately, some of the people there may have gone to see what it was about, or because they felt under duress. Yes, they probably should have spoken out, but maybe they need to think about it a bit more and will see the error of their ways in a day or two. Let's hope so. Yes, spend your hard-earned cash as you wish, but please hold fire for a day or two. Everyone makes mistakes.

Wacko: the law says 1J, period. There should be some leeway or measuring tolerance in it, but there isn't. 1J is legal, 1.01J is not. We're stuck with that unless and until we can get it changed.

Maybe it'll be possible some day, but I very much doubt it, and the medical establishment will fight it tooth and nail. I can't see them letting it get anywhere near 1.35J. We have far more important things to worry about.

Also, you can't have it both ways. If it's under a joule, it can't cause significant damage, by definition (go and look it up). Therefore it's a toy, therefore it can't require registration. If you require registration then it can't be a toy, and you might as well have the same licensing regime as RS or paintball markers. Thy logic is in error.

Everyone: velocity's measured in metres per second, whether you like it or not. The 0.2g BB weight is a measuring protocol, nothing more. 100m/s with 0.2 gives 1J. Feet are irrelevant.


Thanks for the wee quiet voices of sanity on this thread. One of the few advantages of always being so far behind the UK in enacting laws (sometimes decades behind) is that we can see what works and what doesn't, and avoid their mistakes.

FingalAirsoft

*DOBBY* wrote: »

Nobody will tell me where to buy, play or have data bases with my info about airsofting. That day comes and I'm quitting Airsofting.

I don't wish to be a part of any organisation, I'm sure i'm not alone in that thought . There are plenty of us who just wish to play.

I personally agree that we need to have some form of channel open with the DOJ but just until Airsofting is seen as the good sport it is, by the wider community.
After all the game is based on honour, keep the restrictions to a minimum. Play safe and Enjoy it.

The IAA want to implement a data base of members the same way the IASRA would like to implement a data base, nobody will tell you where to play or buy for that matter.
They just want tighter control over who actually buys AEG's and for people who do purchase them to understand that if they misuse it they will face the full force of the law, therefore membership is free to encourage people to sign up with basic information of themselves.

A database of registered players/collectors and plinkers would encourage responsable use of AEG's and hopefully insure that the devices don't fall into the wrong hands: i.e.

Scumbag: I wanna buy tha glock:
Retailer: Do you have a membership number:
Scumbag: eh no:
Retailer: Sorry I can't sell it to you!

Fallschirmjager

FingalAirsoft wrote: »

on the cliue voting


Bren

Bren, i dont know you at all, but i do want to thank you as you try to answer these questions.

however, regarding the clique voting, i am sorry but that simply isnt true. anyone could put their name up on the IAA site. all you had to do was join, get some like minded supporters and you were in.

and by the way i am not a member of the IAA, so i have no axe to grind, but i watched that very regularly.

if i may i will give you a funny story from a russian friend (trust me its worth it)

when the iraq war started he was watching euro news and he was laughing so hard i thought he would puke

i said WTF is so funny?

he said they have this bimbo on the news shouting 'this is disgraceful, someone should do something!!!'

i said...sooo? whats funny about that

he said the americans have answered, 'they are doing something'

and thats my point. there is a lot of people here sniping and moaning and bitching all moaning about how someone should do something. now here is the question, did you put your name forward??

Hivemind187

FingalAirsoft wrote: »

The IAA want to implement a data base of members the same way the IASRA would like to implement a data base

Thats incorrect.

The IAA database provides no information to the authorities that they would not already have to perform a search. No tables of data are presented. No personal armoury details are included (or collected for that matter).

The Database literally gives two answers.

Is the person searched for a member?
Yes
or
No

Thats it.

FingalAirsoft

Fallschirmjager wrote: »

Bren, i dont know you at all, but i do want to thank you as you try to answer these questions.

however, regarding the clique voting, i am sorry but that simply isnt true. anyone could put their name up on the IAA site. all you had to do was join, get some like minded supporters and you were in.

and by the way i am not a member of the IAA, so i have no axe to grind, but i watched that very regularly.

if i may i will give you a funny story from a russian friend (trust me its worth it)

when the iraq war started he was watching euro news and he was laughing so hard i thought he would puke

i said WTF is so funny?

he said they have this bimbo on the news shouting 'this is disgraceful, someone should do something!!!'

i said...sooo? whats funny about that

he said the americans have answered, 'they are doing something'

and thats my point. there is a lot of people here sniping and moaning and bitching all moaning about how someone should do something. now here is the question, did you put your name forward??

I'm sorry, do you mean did I put myself forward for the IAA commitee? If so I can't as I'm a site operator. Go here


Bren

Tigger

Dr_Pepper wrote: »

I beg of you to point this out to me and i shall expose it for you.
Do the 10 mins of info gathering and email it to info@irishairsoft.ie if you please.

ok

<drpepper> looks like im going for chair
<Shiva> want me to nominate u, Dave ?
<gerrout> If you would.
<gerrout> Looks better than a self-nomination since a lot of people probably haven't met me in person
<gerrout> "On the grounds that he is good at vice (vice) and is comfortable to sit in (chair)"
<Shiva> o'Connor, yeah ? Or O'Connel ?
<Shiva> I know is OC
<Fayer> This is like a political cue being staged by the hawks......
<drpepper> muhahaaha
<drpepper> world power is mine
<Fayer> Get Doc and MR2 in as well !
<conor-mr2> lol
<drpepper> Richie for Tech
<drpepper>
<Shiva> could richie run ?
<drpepper> DOC as sec
<conor-mr2> is there a bus driver position
<Fayer> That woudl be a good vote at the AGM
<Shiva> Whats Gerrouts surname ?
<Shiva> o'Connor ?
<drpepper> yah
<drpepper> David O'Connor
<drpepper> also sure Richie could run
<Shiva> even though he works for me ?
<Shiva> kinda a commercial interest
<drpepper> he hasnt got a vested interest
<Fayer> Just dont pay him Tony and he is fine
<drpepper> same with sas-c


some days work is quiet

ED E

Fallschirmjager wrote: »

now here is the question, did you put your name forward??

No point, minors arent allowed to be elected.

But, if the IAA want any help, they have my details:D That reminds me, must finish that skin for sean(extremetaz), forgot due to exams, sorry:p

*DOBBY*

FingalAirsoft wrote: »

The IAA want to implement a data base of members the same way the IASRA would like to implement a data base, nobody will tell you where to play or buy for that matter.
They just want tighter control over who actually buys AEG's and for people who do purchase them to understand that if they misuse it they will face the full force of the law, therefore membership is free to encourage people to sign up with basic information of themselves.

A database of registered players/collectors and plinkers would encourage responsable use of AEG's and hopefully insure that the devices don't fall into the wrong hands: i.e.

Scumbag: I wanna buy tha glock:
Retailer: Do you have a membership number:
Scumbag: eh no:
Retailer: Sorry I can't sell it to you!

I know your reasoning behind it, but like I said in my post , I do not wish to be a part of any organisation. I'm not for one or the other. And i'm not sitting on the fence I just wanna play.
I buy most of my stuff in MIA and most of the time play on your site. Its worked out so far , why infringe on it with new rules and regulations.

Witcher

Tigger wrote: »

ok

<drpepper> looks like im going for chair
<Shiva> want me to nominate u, Dave ?
<gerrout> If you would.
<gerrout> Looks better than a self-nomination since a lot of people probably haven't met me in person
<gerrout> "On the grounds that he is good at vice (vice) and is comfortable to sit in (chair)"
<Shiva> o'Connor, yeah ? Or O'Connel ?
<Shiva> I know is OC
<Fayer> This is like a political cue being staged by the hawks......
<drpepper> muhahaaha
<drpepper> world power is mine
<Fayer> Get Doc and MR2 in as well !
<conor-mr2> lol
<drpepper> Richie for Tech
<drpepper>
<Shiva> could richie run ?
<drpepper> DOC as sec
<conor-mr2> is there a bus driver position
<Fayer> That woudl be a good vote at the AGM
<Shiva> Whats Gerrouts surname ?
<Shiva> o'Connor ?
<drpepper> yah
<drpepper> David O'Connor
<drpepper> also sure Richie could run
<Shiva> even though he works for me ?
<Shiva> kinda a commercial interest
<drpepper> he hasnt got a vested interest
<Fayer> Just dont pay him Tony and he is fine
<drpepper> same with sas-c


some days work is quiet

IRC lurking...nicely done:rolleyes:

Hivemind187

Tigger wrote: »

ok

<drpepper> looks like im going for chair
<Shiva> want me to nominate u, Dave ?
<gerrout> If you would.
<gerrout> Looks better than a self-nomination since a lot of people probably haven't met me in person
<gerrout> "On the grounds that he is good at vice (vice) and is comfortable to sit in (chair)"
<Shiva> o'Connor, yeah ? Or O'Connel ?
<Shiva> I know is OC
<Fayer> This is like a political cue being staged by the hawks......
<drpepper> muhahaaha
<drpepper> world power is mine
<Fayer> Get Doc and MR2 in as well !
<conor-mr2> lol
<drpepper> Richie for Tech
<drpepper>
<Shiva> could richie run ?
<drpepper> DOC as sec
<conor-mr2> is there a bus driver position
<Fayer> That woudl be a good vote at the AGM
<Shiva> Whats Gerrouts surname ?
<Shiva> o'Connor ?
<drpepper> yah
<drpepper> David O'Connor
<drpepper> also sure Richie could run
<Shiva> even though he works for me ?
<Shiva> kinda a commercial interest
<drpepper> he hasnt got a vested interest
<Fayer> Just dont pay him Tony and he is fine
<drpepper> same with sas-c


some days work is quiet

sorry ... what "exactly" do you think this shows?

This is about who was put foreward for election and happened months before the email was received.

MAD Ozzie

Lads,
your out numbered and surrounded by bigger dogs and you are only making it worse for yourselves and your businesses.
Im for airsoft, not politics and not money,
but the politics is needed to some extent to keep the pollies of our backs and the boofheads in check.

So who in there right mind is going to drop the IAA (member or not) that has been at it for 2 years (and haven't done to bad), for a bunch of late comers with little experience other than cause trouble, and force there idea's on others and not listen to anyone. (from what Im reading your not) some fantastic points have been made, (against but none fore)
Just to ride of the back of what the IAA have done.
Even if you think its very little, what little more have you lot done or going to do?
Ok the IAA are not perfict but who is? But there getting better, and can only improve as time goes by.


Better the devil you know I say.
At least I know where I stand and have a good idea where it might be going.
(and I didn't pay 30euro ether but im on the books for the last 18months) And affiliated.

So why should I join you lot?? What makes you think you lot can do better?
What have you done and what will you do for me?
What is the benefit of joining?
At least with the IAA I get to be a part of the bigger picture and a say in it,
if nothing else.
In fairness this did start badly and at a bad time, but knows your chance to fix it!
or forget it!

My 2 bobs.
Im off for a valium now, to calm down.

gandalf

Tigger not sure what you are trying to prove here. All that looks like to are some of the lads having a laugh on IRC.

Do you have any other input on this topic bar your obsession with why the IAA didn't release information in a time frame to suit you?

gandalf

OK I am off to bed here. The missus has been giving out to me all night saying she is now a boards Widow. So I have to go and make up with her as well.

Good Night all !!!

Fallschirmjager

FingalAirsoft wrote: »

I'm sorry, do you mean did I put myself forward for the IAA commitee? If so I can't as I'm a site operator. Go here


Bren

okay that is a fair point, but you dont live in a bubble. so there was no one you would encourage to stand, no one you would have supported and no way you could have fought to change the IAA to include a position for sites, if you felt strongly enough. Like i said its up to the members. The committee is there for the members who vote.

i would also like to add that you said about controlling ner-do-wells getting access to glocks (i know it just an example). you missed one vital part...

Scumbag: I wanna buy tha glock:
Retailer: Do you have a membership number:
Scumbag: eh no:
Retailer: Sorry I can't sell it to you!

HOWEVER, membership is free to this group, sign here and here and you can buy it...

hardly the most secure way but i wonder will these 1000 people all called john doe, will they still count as 'members' to the new organisation??

finally finally, i seem to recall you mentioned that the DOJ could check the database and by the looks of it, it is far more complex then a Y or N the IAA is proposing. Is Derek going to pay the unions the several millions in training and strikes to get that installed as well

kiwi84000

gandalf wrote: »

Tigger not sure what you are trying to prove here. All that looks like to are some of the lads having a laugh on IRC.

Do you have any other input on this topic bar your obsession with why the IAA didn't release information in a time frame to suit you?

It seems quite clear that he is showing the clique I was referring to earlier and quite clearly the background organization of positions within the IAA. Including commercial interests.

Also the fact that the IAA could not release the information does not negate the fact that I was not informed from "Those representing me" that our sport was not about to be banned.

Currently

Scumbag: I wanna buy tha glock:
Retailer: sure do you know how to use it and what to do with it?
Scumbag: eh no I just wanna shoot my neighbors cat:
Retailer: Sure that will be 300 Euro Safety is there have fun.

Tigger

i´m not trying to prove anything

that is what was discussed as the nominations were being made for iaa
m
these nominations were made and those nominated ran unopposed


so this was the discussion that decided the iaa commitee 08´09



but hey

i was trying to air some issues that my fellow non decideds will feeel

pepper is comming out with we´re knew or we´re not aWARE of the issues so these are the issues

lies and a two tier system


thats why some peoplke will join the iasciawyyz

i won´t coz i´m dyslexic and iaa is just easier to remeber

anyhow can i have a direct and officioal answer did shiva know before the rest of us

(btw i´m on record as saying that shiva has done loads for airsoft and that he is the ryanair of airsoft and that i´d have o leary run this feck up of a country)

FingalAirsoft

kiwi84000 wrote: »

It seems quite clear that he is showing the clique I was referring to earlier and quite clearly the background organization of positions within the IAA. Including commercial interests.

Also the fact that the IAA could not release the information does not negate the fact that I was not informed from "Those representing me" that our sport was not about to be banned.

Currently

Scumbag: I wanna buy tha glock:
Retailer: sure do you know how to use it and what to do with it?
Scumbag: eh no I just wanna shoot my neighbors cat:
Retailer: Sure that will be 300 Euro Safety is there have fun.

Maybe it was a recruitment drive for the IAA to swell the membership numbers?

ED E

Fallschirmjager wrote: »

i would also like to add that you said about controlling ner-do-wells getting access to glocks (i know it just an example). you missed one vital part...

Scumbag: I wanna buy tha glock:
Retailer: Do you have a membership number:
Scumbag: eh no:
Retailer: Sorry I can't sell it to you!

HOWEVER, membership is free to this group, sign here and here and you can buy it...

Yeah, there is no foolproof method but I'd say this will deter many. If they are really determined, they'll get it. Just look at the problems with RSs getting in. This will deter johnny joyrider, thats a good starting point in my eyes.

Tigger

Lethal_Bullet wrote: »

Yeah, there is no foolproof method but I'd say this will deter many. If they are really determined, they'll get it. Just look at the problems with RSs getting in. This will deter johnny joyrider, thats a good starting point in my eyes.

jonny joyrider ???????

i´m gonna say churchtown

gerrowadat

FingalAirsoft wrote: »

The IAA want to implement a data base of members the same way the IASRA would like to implement a data base, nobody will tell you where to play or buy for that matter.
They just want tighter control over who actually buys AEG's and for people who do purchase them to understand that if they misuse it they will face the full force of the law, therefore membership is free to encourage people to sign up with basic information of themselves.

A database of registered players/collectors and plinkers would encourage responsable use of AEG's and hopefully insure that the devices don't fall into the wrong hands: i.e.

Scumbag: I wanna buy tha glock:
Retailer: Do you have a membership number:
Scumbag: eh no:
Retailer: Sorry I can't sell it to you!

The conversation continues...

Scumbug: So how do I join?
Retailer: No bother, here's a form, I can sign you up now, it's free.
Scumbug: Okay, one membership form and one glock, cheers bud.

Hive has explained the limited scope of the IAA database. It does not surrender information that the person who queries it doesn't already have. It was designed by a professional IT person, reviewed by our dedicated Legal advisor, and will probably have its source code reviewed by several other It professionals, probably wome of whom have at one point done information security for a living. You don't just will a database into existence -- you need to be compliant with the law, you need to justify /why/ you need each piece of information, and you have to make sure the data is accurate, secure, retained properly, and administered properly.

I don't know exactly why this body would want to, or need to know which devices people had. Airsoft guns do not have unique serial numbers. It is impossible to tell which retailer it came from, or who owned it. What happens if my airsoft gun gets nicked? What happens if I sell it? What if I sell it to someone and the database doesn't get updated, and it gets upgraded and discovered? Can you describe to me a scenario whereby a person misuses an airsoft gun and is brought to justice because of this database?

I want to make a couple things clear, since it seems a book has been written since I last weighed in on this thread:

- Please do not boycott any retailer or site over this. This only serves to make the damage this new body is causing worse.
- The IAA has never refused a body affiliation.
- The IAA is prepared to talk to Derek or anyone involved in this new body in the spirit of making sure voices are heard. Personal differences -are- aside. The IAA committee are different people from who they were 6 months ago when the MIA thing went down. **** happens. Let's talk.

Hivemind187

kiwi84000 wrote: »

It seems quite clear that he is showing the clique I was referring to earlier and quite clearly the background organization of positions within the IAA. Including commercial interests.

Garbage. Do not attempt to change the facts to suit your chosen avenue of attack. Go back and read the statement Tigger made and this is what he offered as supporting evidence. He did not elude to cliques, he made a specific assertion that there is a two-tier situation in the IAA.

No time stamps are provided to indicate when it took place and it is entirely unrelated to his assertion. Furthermore, the manner in which people converse with one another, in a chat room, at christ knows what time and where they could be viewed by anyone provides no evidence of a "clique".

People are entitled to befriend one another whether you approve of it or not - it has no baring on their ethics or whether they can do the job. I did not know Sean or Conor or Dar or Dave or Stephane or Stephen before I worked with them on the IAA. That I call them my friends now is based on their worth to me as individuals which is something earned over time when you work closely with people.

So what are you actually trying to say here? That you cant have a voice because there is some conpiracy to silence you? I invite you to count the number of people who put themselves forward for the job that these individuals took on.

kiwi84000 wrote: »

Also the fact that the IAA could not release the information does not negate the fact that I was not informed from "Those representing me" that our sport was not about to be banned.

Let me tell you something about information and reality mate.

You can not just plonk information into the public domain to make people happy. You have to fact check what you are saying. You have to seek the right to reproduce and to quote. You have obligations upon obligations not the least of which being to ensure that everything that you say from an offical position is up to date, factual and correct. Other wise you are letting down the very people you are supposed to be helping.

All of this work takes time. Sorry if it wasnt done quickly enough for your tastes.

As for your snidy little "those representing me" - Up until thursday by all accounts the IAA did represent you (as a member of the responsible airsoft community - unless you are aknowledging yourself as being an irresponsible member!). If you would like to show me all the other organisations which were representing the airsoft community I would dearly love to see them and ask them why the hell they werent pitching in?

Edit: I would also point out (as Tigger mentioned) that the current committee ran unopposed (Pudding pulled out for his own reasons in the run for Tech Officer). I take specific issue with the comment that this conversation "decided" anything. It decided only that those individuals would run. Apathy, hubris and utter bald faced inaction on the behalf of many others decided the committee by means of no one else putting themselves forward for the jobs.

Tigger

gerrowadat wrote: »

The conversation continues...

Scumbug: So how do I join?
Retailer: No bother, here's a form, I can sign you up now, it's free.
Scumbug: Okay, one membership form and one glock, cheers bud.

Hive has explained the limited scope of the IAA database. It does not surrender information that the person who queries it doesn't already have. It was designed by a professional IT person, reviewed by our dedicated Legal advisor, and will probably have its source code reviewed by several other It professionals, probably wome of whom have at one point done information security for a living. You don't just will a database into existence -- you need to be compliant with the law, you need to justify /why/ you need each piece of information, and you have to make sure the data is accurate, secure, retained properly, and administered properly.

I don't know exactly why this body would want to, or need to know which devices people had. Airsoft guns do not have unique serial numbers. It is impossible to tell which retailer it came from, or who owned it. What happens if my airsoft gun gets nicked? What happens if I sell it? What if I sell it to someone and the database doesn't get updated, and it gets upgraded and discovered? Can you describe to me a scenario whereby a person misuses an airsoft gun and is brought to justice because of this database?

I want to make a couple things clear, since it seems a book has been written since I last weighed in on this thread:

- Please do not boycott any retailer or site over this. This only serves to make the damage this new body is causing worse.
- The IAA has never refused a body affiliation.
- The IAA is prepared to talk to Derek or anyone involved in this new body in the spirit of making sure voices are heard. Personal differences -are- aside. The IAA committee are different people from who they were 6 months ago when the MIA thing went down. **** happens. Let's talk.

yes but did shiva know about the commitees discussions with the doj when we were all running around signing petitions?