Sparring. Better with or without gloves? Contd...

getz · 15-12-2008 02:55PM

KapapMan wrote: »

Hi folks ,

I would like to add something to the discussion . Outside of a sporting context I see sparring and fighting as being two different animals . One is training/learning and the other is for your life , no comparison . The point I would like to make is that like Getz’s comment , when I started learning , conditioning was a big thing . Makiwara and sandbag were the tools for hand and foot conditioning . Many injuries and years later the heavy bag and bag gloves suffice to keep the contact heavy and for real I prefer the palm heel to hit someone . Naturally toughened and calloused . With knuckle punches the skin in between the knuckles is easily torn so if you bang someone in the mouth and cut yourself on their teeth , they may have Hep or AIDS etc . I teach a defence class and I have a method I use to help new students decide how they might like to strike hard objects . I get them to kneel down and rap their knuckles on the floor boards as hard as is comfortable for them , I repeat the method using palm heal . The difference is obvious . Just a thought .

yes the palm heel strike was used often years ago by the more advanced students-part of the warming up/exercise i like to do finger press ups and knuckle press ups this makes the fingers and knuckles a lot stronger

raptorman · 15-12-2008 03:13PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=292RJFjGCKA

getz · 15-12-2008 04:08PM

thank you one -what the saying? worth a thousand words

Leo? · 15-12-2008 10:40PM

I've seen that art of war video about a million times, it's often wheeled out in Kyokushin vs Non-Kyokushin karate debates and I still fail to see anything worthwile in it, I mean compared to Royama's progressive karate seen here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ye_Cq_cNon0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g49DCWW0pPg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kDQMK8a8XM

it's a bad joke

raptorman · 15-12-2008 11:38PM

Leo I wasnt making a Shotokan vs Kyokushin point. Nothing Compares said Shotokan was useless for fighting with.

FruitLover · 15-12-2008 11:42PM

getz wrote: »

thank you one -what the saying? worth a thousand words

Eh... what?? Weren't you the one claiming that shotokan sparring breeds better control? All I see in that video is people whacking each other in the face.

Leo? · 16-12-2008 12:04AM

raptorman wrote: »

Leo I wasnt making a Shotokan vs Kyokushin point. Nothing Compares said Shotokan was useless for fighting with.

I didn't say it was, I was just voicing my displeasure at that shotokan clip, as it didn't demonstrate good technique at all, and I presented examples of Karate with face face punches that did, and they used gloves.

Nothingcompares · 16-12-2008 01:07AM

raptorman wrote: »

Leo I wasnt making a Shotokan vs Kyokushin point. Nothing Compares said Shotokan was useless for fighting with.

Was that clip supposed to refute that point? Point sparring and their associated practices have nothing to do with fighting, it's a tag tournament. Look at the guy put their hand to their face after getting hit. it's ridiculous. no guards, no foot work, no head movement. it's frankly silly.

raptorman · 16-12-2008 10:44AM

I'm not saying Shotokan is the best method of fighting and I never understood the low gaurds. The point stop comp style comes from the ideology that one should train to kill with a single strike. Maybe not realistic but to call bare knuckle full contact strikes "tag" is hardly right either.
Sparring where I train Shotokan is with gloves and with a fair amount of contact.
Just so you dont think I'm an uber traditionalist I do Shotokan, MMA, spar with mates that box, done a few classes of Kyokushin, I'll train in anything basically!

Judomad · 16-12-2008 03:42PM

Charlie3dan wrote: »

That's more ignorance than I'm able to deal with on a monday morning.

and...........................................if you dont like it dont read it.. saying im ignorant wont bother me in the slightest my sensitive little friend...

Charlie3dan · 18-12-2008 09:58AM

Judomad wrote: »

and...........................................if you dont like it dont read it.. saying im ignorant wont bother me in the slightest my sensitive little friend...

Nope, thursday aint gonna do it either.

Judomad · 18-12-2008 11:54AM

Charlie3dan wrote: »

Nope, thursday aint gonna do it either.

i really dont care to be honest...monday or thursday..if you dont like my posts ignore them...simple as....or maybe you need to switch forum..maybe mothers for sensitive kids would be a good one...if there aint a forum called that why not create one...

yomchi · 18-12-2008 12:10PM

Honestly lads.

Infractions issued for keeping thread off topic and putting fellow users in danger of being hit with one your handbags.

Kila · 18-12-2008 03:38PM

I think it really depends on what kind of training you're doing, and what you're doing it for.

If you want to learn to fight, then realism in your training is important. This I will happily grant you. If you simply want to learn to be the most effective combatant there is, then you're likely to want to remove as many barriers as is safe and get your training as realistic as possible.

However, I would question where to draw the line. I would like to be an effective fighter, not because I want to go out and start and win fights, but because I'd like to be able to defend myself if I'm ever in a situation where I have no choice but to defend myself. It is in those situations that winning matters most (in my opinion). With all that said, I'm also perfectly happy to admit that I, like most of you here, don't pay the bills by winning fights. I have invested a large amount of time and effort into getting the job I have. I also have a significant amount of time and money invested in the dental work I'm currently having done. For the sake of training without pads to achieve higher realism, I'm not willing to risk either of those things. I've got work Monday-Friday, and it's not a job that I can do with broken or sprained joints, black eyes, broken jaws, etc. I put a lot into my training, and I consider it a huge part of my life. To that end, I dedicate an awful lot of my time, effort, and money to it. But I'm not willing to risk permanent damage by using some of the more old fashioned, and ultimately silly, ways of training.

I would rather train with the safety of some level of padding. The level can change depending on what level the students are at but I do believe that there should be some. I'm not saying that you shouldn't try to punch your partner, or that you should fall over at the first blow. But I don't think there's any greatness in being so beaten up after training that, if you were to be attacked coming out of the door, you'd be incapable of defending yourself. I've seen people at seminars missing half their teeth, with fists that don't close properly, with arms that don't straighten any more. And I just don't think that anything is worth the kind of permanent damage you can inflict upon yourself.

liquidice · 22-12-2008 11:12AM

You gona get yourself kiled man

Sparring. Better with or without gloves? Contd...

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