Sparring. Better with or without gloves? Contd...

getz · 12-12-2008 12:54PM #1

Ug Lee wrote: »

I'm looking for advise. What are the best gloves to use when sparring. Boxing gloves, what ounce/brand, etc?

when i first started in shotokan karate we never had gloves when sparring, i still dont, without gloves you have more control

Judomad · 12-12-2008 01:17PM

getz wrote: »

when i first started in shotokan karate we never had gloves when sparring, i still dont, without gloves you have more control

more control? explain

Ug Lee · 12-12-2008 01:21PM

getz wrote: »

when i first started in shotokan karate we never had gloves when sparring, i still dont, without gloves you have more control

I appreciate that however the B side is that you run the risk of doing things in sparring that would get you whalloped (sp?) if the other person was really trying to hit you for real. That extra split second between someone pulling their punch (with control) and trying to hit you (with gloves) can make a lot of difference.

Killme00 · 12-12-2008 01:23PM

getz wrote: »

when i first started in shotokan karate we never had gloves when sparring, i still dont, without gloves you have more control

I wouldnt really call that sparring so

Ug Lee · 12-12-2008 01:25PM

paddyc wrote: »

aye mate you use 16oz for sparring and 10, 8 or 6 oz for fightin depending on your weight

just like boxing

paddy

And you use the 16oz for sparring to offer more protection to your opponent whereas for fighting this is not a consideration and you use 10, 8 or 6oz?

Judomad · 12-12-2008 01:25PM

"sparring" with no gloves is a joke imho, it shouldnt be called sparring, its should be called dancing or something, obviously nobody is going to punch someone bare knuckle in training, therefore you are not hitting each other, or you are pretending to hit each other, very un-realistic and will not work in anyway...
you might aswell do capoeira and say your a martial artist....

FruitLover · 12-12-2008 01:28PM

getz wrote: »

when i first started in shotokan karate we never had gloves when sparring, i still dont, without gloves you have more control

Yeah, but in other martial arts, they actually hit each other.

Judomad · 12-12-2008 01:30PM

FruitLover wrote: »

Yeah, but in other martial arts, they actually hit each other.

back to the whole capoeira is a martial art theory again........is shotokan karate really a martial art:D

yomchi · 12-12-2008 01:30PM

Keep it civil lads. The hand was put out, I agree but keep it nice and OT.

Judomad · 12-12-2008 02:00PM

Jon wrote: »

Keep it civil lads. The hand was put out, I agree but keep it nice and OT.

aww come on Jon. let us have a little bit of fun.....please please plase:D:D

i was just trying to get a discussion/arguement started, but thats healthy on a forum..right?

Furious-Dave · 12-12-2008 02:05PM

Judomad wrote: »

"sparring" with no gloves is a joke imho, it shouldnt be called sparring, its should be called dancing or something, obviously nobody is going to punch someone bare knuckle in training, therefore you are not hitting each other, or you are pretending to hit each other, very un-realistic and will not work in anyway...
you might aswell do capoeira and say your a martial artist....

A lot of the sparring done in Kyokushin is bare knuckle, with contact. Are you going to tell those guys that they are actually only doing "dancing"?
I do agree though, sparring with control (using the Kenpo meaning of control) is a joke.

getz · 12-12-2008 02:56PM

Judomad wrote: »

"sparring" with no gloves is a joke imho, it shouldnt be called sparring, its should be called dancing or something, obviously nobody is going to punch someone bare knuckle in training, therefore you are not hitting each other, or you are pretending to hit each other, very un-realistic and will not work in anyway...
you might aswell do capoeira and say your a martial artist....

one of the big problems of useing gloves or mitts is sparing is that in a real street fight your hands are not closing properly and you have a big chance of doing dammage to yourself ,in a street fight you cannot say wait untill i get my gloves on

Furious-Dave · 12-12-2008 03:35PM

getz wrote: »

one of the big problems of useing gloves or mitts is sparing is that in a real street fight your hands are not closing properly and you have a big chance of doing dammage to yourself ,in a street fight you cannot say wait untill i get my gloves on

The problem with not having gloves is that you can't punch to the head with power. Which in turn can lead to poor head defense.

Killme00 · 12-12-2008 04:10PM

getz wrote: »

one of the big problems of useing gloves or mitts is sparing is that in a real street fight your hands are not closing properly and you have a big chance of doing dammage to yourself ,in a street fight you cannot say wait untill i get my gloves on

During sparring, padwork and bagwork, you throw well over a hundred shots per session. In a street fight, you throw one, two or even six which i would consider alot for a street fight. You are more at risk f hand damage during sparring than in a street fight due to the difference in sheer volume. Also wearing gloves means you can throw harder shots than you would during bare knuckle sparring.

getz · 12-12-2008 04:29PM

Furious-Dave wrote: »

The problem with not having gloves is that you can't punch to the head with power. Which in turn can lead to poor head defense.

this may sound strange to martial arts people now ,but when i first started in karate in the 1960s [at that time i was into judo] we used to punch walls or rattin boards with our knuckles to build up segs on the back of our finger just like the heals on your feet,gloves and mitts or shin guards wasent to be used .the idea at that time in competion was one strike[ipon] would win ,i was entered in the british and europe open and i got lucky and had two byes my opponents had to retire because of injury i managed to reach to last 16 before being out classed, when watching the final it [was very boreing] both the finalists stood facing each other for 5 minutes before on explosive strike won the match-but karate[shotokan] at the time was to make it as like to real life as possible all our teachers was japanese all methods had been tried and tested in war

FruitLover · 12-12-2008 04:54PM

getz wrote: »

all methods had been tried and tested in war

They didn't use Shotokan karate in any war. They used guns.

Nothingcompares · 12-12-2008 04:55PM

getz wrote: »

this may sound strange to martial arts people now ,but when i first started in karate in the 1960s [at that time i was into judo] we used to punch walls or rattin boards with our knuckles to build up segs on the back of our finger just like the heals on your feet,gloves and mitts or shin guards wasent to be used

This doesn't surprise me. I've grown to accept that people do ridiculously stupid tings in the name of martial arts. Punching walls bare knuckle has absolutely no place in intelligent training. It's stupid and pointless.

both the finalists stood facing each other for 5 minutes before on explosive strike won the match-but karate[shotokan] at the time was to make it as like to real life as possible all our teachers was japanese all methods had been tried and tested in war

Shows what Shotokan masters know about real fighting. Two blokes standing around for 5 minutes without hitting each other and the first to score a tag wins? Shotokan has long been accepted as a poor method for training for real fights and nobody interested in real fights continues to train in it.

none of the shotokan methods have been tested in war, that's frankly bull****.

getz · 12-12-2008 05:09PM

FruitLover wrote: »

They didn't use Shotokan karate in any war. They used guns.

shotokan came over from okinawa requested by a japanese prince because this martial art was upto then causing a problem to the samurai occupation army he[the prince requested to know more about it ] it was then made to fit the japanese thinking

FruitLover · 12-12-2008 05:14PM

getz wrote: »

shotokan came over from okinawa requested by a japanese prince because this martial art was upto then causing a problem to the samurai occupation army he[the prince requested to know more about it ] it was then made to fit the japanese thinking

Or so various romantic karate 'history' books would have you believe. There were no samurai in the 1920s. And Shotokan karate is a far cry from the old Okinawan styles (not that they were ever used in any wars either). Do you really think someone is going to try gyaku-zuki against a samurai armed with a sword?

ryoishin · 12-12-2008 05:18PM

Theres is nothing on the human body that is like a brick wall except maybe the front of the skull which I would avoid hitting with my fist.

The human body flexes when struck. You wrist could be strong enough to hit a wall but when it hits something the flexes it will weaken. Thats why heavy bags are better.

getz · 12-12-2008 05:36PM

sorry lads there are still samaria alive and well in japan[ok they dont walk around with swords there is even one english man in japan who is a samaria--if your martial art is sporting only you can not call it a martial art . if you do katas in your style ,that comes from shotokan they are the style that invented it enything else is just copy -now i do not teach shotokan, i teach shukokia and gosin karate,like other styles i teach katas -but i know its origin

ryoishin · 12-12-2008 05:47PM

Getz,

Thats just not true about katas.

Nothingcompares · 12-12-2008 06:10PM

I've never heard of Shotokan people doin the Naga no kata. Furthermore, Kata is also useless for fight training.

yomchi · 12-12-2008 08:45PM

Judomad wrote: »

aww come on Jon. let us have a little bit of fun.....please please plase:D:D

i was just trying to get a discussion/arguement started, but thats healthy on a forum..right?

No hassle with that. It is gone OT so thread split.

Carry on

FruitLover · 12-12-2008 11:05PM

getz wrote: »

if you do katas in your style ,that comes from shotokan they are the style that invented it enything else is just copy

OK, now you've given yourself away as a troll. Had me going there for a while!

phoenix-MT · 12-12-2008 11:40PM

We spar without gloves HOWEVER.....it is light controlled TECH SPARRING for drilling combos and technique. When it comes down to proper sparing you use a good size glove 16oz to protect your training partner and yourself. If you were to do it bare knuckle then you could probably only spar and once a month if your lucky...the rest of the time you would be recovering from injuries no matter how good you are!! I use Tech Sparring alot as defending with gloves on is alot different than without....your guard has to be alot tighter etc. Anyway full contact sparring you wear gloves...otherwise its pointless....i doubt 2 Muay Thai fighters sparring bare knuckle would last very long! lol

Pride Fighter · 12-12-2008 11:55PM

Use gloves for sparring if you want to keep your hands in good condition.

Furious-Dave · 13-12-2008 12:57PM

IMO it depends on the style that you do. In Kyokushin there's no punching to the head in traditional sparring so there's less risk to the hands. A lot of dojos also do sparring with gloves. In MMA I use both 16oz boxing gloves and MMA sparring gloves. Both are good to use. Boxing gloves allow for heavier contact with extra protection, and MMA gloves allow for lighter contact but with cleaner technique. They also allow you to appreciate the need for an active guard.

Nothingcompares · 14-12-2008 01:50AM

Nothingcompares wrote: »

This doesn't surprise me. I've grown to accept that people do ridiculously stupid tings in the name of martial arts. Punching walls bare knuckle has absolutely no place in intelligent training. It's stupid and pointless.

Shows what Shotokan masters know about real fighting. Two blokes standing around for 5 minutes without hitting each other and the first to score a tag wins? Shotokan has long been accepted as a poor method for training for real fights and nobody interested in real fights continues to train in it.

none of the shotokan methods have been tested in war, that's frankly bull****.

except for lyoto machida

Charlie3dan · 15-12-2008 10:16AM

Judomad wrote: »

you might aswell do capoeira and say your a martial artist....

That's more ignorance than I'm able to deal with on a monday morning.

KapapMan · 15-12-2008 02:19PM

Hi folks ,

I would like to add something to the discussion . Outside of a sporting context I see sparring and fighting as being two different animals . One is training/learning and the other is for your life , no comparison . The point I would like to make is that like Getz’s comment , when I started learning , conditioning was a big thing . Makiwara and sandbag were the tools for hand and foot conditioning . Many injuries and years later the heavy bag and bag gloves suffice to keep the contact heavy and for real I prefer the palm heel to hit someone . Naturally toughened and calloused . With knuckle punches the skin in between the knuckles is easily torn so if you bang someone in the mouth and cut yourself on their teeth , they may have Hep or AIDS etc . I teach a defence class and I have a method I use to help new students decide how they might like to strike hard objects . I get them to kneel down and rap their knuckles on the floor boards as hard as is comfortable for them , I repeat the method using palm heal . The difference is obvious . Just a thought .

Sparring. Better with or without gloves? Contd...

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