They're leaving :/

Nodin wrote: »

'nom de guerre'

Is what exactly?

"nick" in french

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

There are quite a few Lithuanians and Latvians here; but very few Estonians. Why so? I guess they all went to Finland.

Exactly. Lithuanian, Latvians and Estonians are called Baltic States, but Estonians are very different. I can understand what Latvians are talking (not much, but still), but not Estonians. Finns are much the same as Estonians, but I have met few of them here

Alexandria Broad Rawhide wrote: »

I worked with more estonians than latvians though... damn they are some pretty sexy women...

What do you think about polish women?

Alexandria Broad Rawhide wrote: »

I worked with more estonians than latvians though... damn they are some pretty sexy women...

O yes.

djpbarry wrote: »

How do you know there are people on the dole who would be capable of filling the vacancies that would be created?

This is actually very good point mate.
Replacing 100 thousands deli makers would not probably be a big hassle as everyone would be trained up within 2 days time, but try to replace number of skilled professionals within this group? How can you train up guy with no clues whatsoever to high-level job in no time?

The reason why Ireland invited EU immigrants in 2004 was indeed because of shortage of skilled workforce in the first place!
Shortage of IT people, finances people, construction engineers, etc. etc.
There was also need for non-skilled workers to fill up unwanted vacancies in low-paid industries like bars, hotels, etc. as booming Irish economy pushed Irish people up the ladder and there was scarcely anyone willing to do 8 per hour job.

There is one more point to this discussion.
Ireland is part of EU. Ireland took massive money out from EU and used it to boom and grow over past years.
One of the basic prinicples and ideas of EU is free flow of goods, services and money. Now, since 2004 Poland is EU member as well. Poland takes more money now than pays to EU but that will change in next 5 or 10 years and there will be another turn to support another developing EU country like maybe Turkey if they ever join in... (let's assume so just for the example).

Therefore you just can't simply block workforce or anything of that sort.
If you want to block everyone and live on your own you would need sign out from EU and possibly pay billions of Euros back that was given you by Germany, France, Holland, Belgium etc. etc. How does it sound huh?
This is just nonsense I know it and you know it. Sadly I'm afraid people like Sam06 hardly understand any of those...

djpbarry wrote: »

In fairness, it's a pretty complex concept to grasp. These stereotypes take years of unchallenged ignorance to develop; we cannot expect them to be dispelled with mere facts.

I know a couple of Romanians, and this pisses them off greatly.

Even worse, I've heard cops make the same mistake, and they're the ones who have to source interpreters to deal with those Roma criminal scum who end up down the nick on a daily basis.

Alexandria Broad Rawhide wrote: »

Nice, we don't get much of them skinny women here no more, polish women are fit too

Well, recently I spoke with Polish chap, he was complaining that it's getting hard to find a Polish girls for themselves as vast majority are looking for Irish guys... You get the idea, so do what ever it takes to stop them from leaving

Tha Gopher wrote: »

We can, and we should have.

You got it wrong mate.
You can not regulate immigration from another EU country.
You only can regulate from outside EU. Read EU Enlargement Policy and accession notes.

The only option provided by EU law is to give 7 years long transition period to new EU countries.

This transition period is in use now by Germany for example and had been used by France until 2008.

What does it mean?
It means that since 2004 (EU accession for Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, etc.) "old" EU Countries can block their job market for another 7 years.
This is maximum period allowed.
So Germany liked to use this option and they are blocking Poles and the other new countries until 2011. However, Poles can still travel there, stay there, etc. - it's only in accordance to taking up jobs.
At the moment if Poles want to work in Germany they need Permit but this is going to change in 2011 - at latest.

Ireland did not use this optional tranistion period and opened up in 2004 immediately - likewise was for example Sweden and United Kingdom.

That is why those countries host most of immigrants - as everyone who felt like going abroad had quite narrow selection back then in 2004 (as far as I can remember only 3 or 4 old EU countries opened up their job markets for us immediately) - hope this explains a few bits to some people here wondering why Ireland :D
And we like you by the way - this is second why :D

And for example France opened up only now in 2008, so they have been using job protection for 4 years until dropped.
Also, once you open up there is no going back.
So this means, Ireland cannnot say now, ok, get out and we will let you back in again in 2 years time in 2011.
This is impossible now.

You see there are tight EU regulations and by being part of EU you showed your consent with them - many people probably never understand what it means to join EU. It's not only funny 2 letter word, it's political and economical bond.

djpbarry wrote: »

That's a very simplistic analysis. I work with quite a lot of non-Irish people and I would be very suprised if you could find people on the dole to do their (highly specialised) jobs. Besides, I don't see why an Irish person should be more entitled to a job in this country than a non-Irish person. The most suitable candidate gets the job, regardless of nationality.

Are you suggesting that people on the dole are unskilled and uneducated? I hope not. There are many people on social welfare that are skilled and educated. I am not saying that all 100,000 jobs will be filled by people on the dole. There are also a lot of skilled people working in jobs that undermime their capabilities. A lot of skilled people are taking on unskilled jobs just to work. I did not say that anybody is entitled to a job based on nationality.

So you think we should get rid of the skilled people, who are apparently more suited to the job seeing as how they managed to secure it in the first place, to make way for people who, for whatever reason, were beaten to said jobs? That makes little sense, economic or otherwise. You're essentially advocating that we replace people in skilled positions with (presumably) inferior employees.

Simple answer? No. I do not think that we should "get rid" of skilled workers. I never said we should get rid of skilled workers and replace them with "inferior" workers. I said that there are skilled workers working in unskilled jobs, like I stated above. There are people in skilled labour being made redundant or simply let off, those people are now working in unskilled positions (Tradesmen working in the service sector).

I would say it would be highly probable that a large number of jobs would not be filled. Further, I would say it would be quite likely that a large number of jobs would also be made redundant due to the loss of all those skilled workers and the subsequent impact on the economy.

I agree that SOME may be made redundant, those who work for foreigners that have their own company, I do not think that is a LOT though. There are a lot of polish that are in managment, it's not impossible to replace these people, in fact it would not be difficult at all.

The last census is the best we have. Approximately 48% of Poles in this country were either "manual skilled" or "semi-skilled" and a further 9% were classed as working at "employer/manager" level or as a "professional". More than 25% of Poles in Ireland have third level qualifications, a large number of which are in the field of engineering (source).

Considering the fact that so many Irish "manual skilled" and "semi skilled" workers are unemployed here will help my argument. 9% spread over managment and professional? Well we will miss the professionals, no doubt, but we will not miss the managment as we can fill that gap. We may even be able to fill some of the professional gaps, depending on what profession they have. As for the third level educated. We have an abundance of higher educated people in this country, we really don't need any more.

Like I have said a million times, I do not want to get "rid" of any nationality, but the fact that they are leaving will reduce competition in the job market here in Ireland.