Man murdered by youth(s) after home attacked(yes it happened in Ireland)

marcsignal · 09-12-2008 05:49PM

I totally agree with Mairt, It's absolutely feasible to draft the Army in to support the police. RDF units could be drafted in to do Barrack duties to allow PDF units to be dispached to support the Guards in a lockdown of the problem areas.

Having said that, it's a total waste of time unless the murderer is punished, and seen in a very high profile way to be punished.
imo, if he can commit murder like an adult, then he can pay the ultimate price like an adult, or at the very least lose his wobbly bits

Guya · 09-12-2008 05:53PM

The chopper thats over East Wall every night has an army pilot. they already have a platform to biuld on. Its not the community that have done this tho. its a bunch of feril youths.
The army could be used to educate them

Guya · 09-12-2008 05:59PM

Darragh29 wrote: »

In typically Irish fashion, I seem to be the only person prepared to protest over this.

I'll protest with ya.

This is lowest ireland has been since the civil war

Zombrex · 09-12-2008 06:05PM

Darragh29 wrote: »

I'm not saying violence is the answer, but these people who are supposed to be running the fu*king country clearly have their priorities wrong at the moment and it falls to us to bring this to their attention now.

I didn't vote for them, FF don't have a clue how to run the country.

But all types of policies I would vote for though would probably dismissed by most of the "string'em all up!" posters here as too liberal, too wishy washy, rewarding bad behavior etc etc. Irrespective of whether or not these policies actually work

Some times I think all people want do is to get angry, beat a pillow, be outraged and when they are finished they go back to their lives and ignore the underlying problems until the next time something like this happens, when they just get all angry over again and talk about stringing them all up again.

winston82 · 09-12-2008 06:07PM

lottodrink wrote: »

I reckon that house arrest should be brought into Ireland like they have in the states. Ya know the tracking device they stick on ur leg? Dont even know if it is real but iv seen it in Prison Break and that film Disturbia. I dunno, I'm from a rough area n have no problem at home! The kids just play football on the road n keep to themselves.

East Wall is a dump... I was jumped on by about 12 lads a few years back in the area its a kip. these lads where in their 20s pissed drunk so I could have been bottled luckily enough I wasnt tho!!

I wonder where the little f***er got a gun at his age though!! Was it definetely him that shot the man??

i used to live in north wall and was always afraid to walk through east wall to get home. I would walk down sheriff street before id walk through there. what a real sh!t-hole it is. When you hear people ask about the worst place in Dublin, imo, east-wall is the most over-looked. And as for the scum that did this, well, the way i see it, all the "kids" down there are potential murderers.

SpookyDoll · 09-12-2008 06:13PM

Well, Im seeing a lot more nuance in peoples posts than just "string em up".

Anyway people have the right to be angry, its the attempted suffocation of righteous anger with Lesbian Seagull leftyism that in many ways has brought us to this juncture and its natural that people with rail against that.

Rehabilitation doesn't work. Thats a fact. On the majority of crims its a waste of time and energy. The country doesnt have the money for ill conceived white elephants at this time.

I am left in every other way except allowing myself to be suckered in by cynical murderers and bullies just because I am afraid of being viewed as right wing or whatever.

You ask the Guards and anyone who works at the actual coal face and they will tell you the law in many respects with regard to dealing with these types is an ass.

All the namby pamby college graduates who scuttle about the "community" during the day with their heads tilted in mock sympathy would no more walk down any East Wall road at night than the man in the moon.

Either they are prepared to accept reality as it actually is or they butt out.

gurramok · 09-12-2008 06:13PM

Mairt wrote: »

You don't know the situation in Eastwall, within an hour of this shooting most people heard the name of the shooter.

His father is a close family friend of my in-laws, and he's like any other father of any other teenager anywhere in the world. He's destroyed, he's lost and wondering whats happened and how.

Is it true what the papers are saying that some of those in custody including the shooter have previous convictions/court appearances?

If so, their parents knew what their kids were capable of and should of had them disciplined or as the yanks say, grounded.

A kid just doesn't commit an act like this out of the blue, there is previous instances of trouble tendancy involved. A flashing red light should of been flashing in their parents head that something is seriously wrong with their kid.

Darragh29 · 09-12-2008 06:15PM

We need to draw a circle around the types of crime that we are no longer prepared to accept. Then send our TD's over to the Isle of Man to give them a flavour for how we want to live in a crime free society.

Bodie Doyle · 09-12-2008 06:16PM

Does that include my daughter and baby boy? Get a grip. "All kids down their are potential murderers"- what sort of place do you think East Wall is. There are hundreds of great families in the area and most are decent. Don't paint all the people in the area with the same brush as those kids with no morals. My thoughts go out to that poor mans family.

winston82 wrote: »

i used to live in north wall and was always afraid to walk through east wall to get home. I would walk down sheriff street before id walk through there. what a real sh!t-hole it is. When you hear people ask about the worst place in Dublin, imo, east-wall is the most over-looked. And as for the scum that did this, well, the way i see it, all the "kids" down there are potential murderers.

Terry · 09-12-2008 06:19PM

Blame the parents, blame society, blame the government, blame Gardner street, blame the person who gave him the gun.

Is there no such thing as personal responsibility left in this country?

If anything needs to be done, it should be the government drafting in laws to treat minors as adults in cases like this.
Don't let the little bastard out for 20 years, or whatever murderers get these days.

The person behind the gun is the one to blame. Nobody else.

Darragh29 · 09-12-2008 06:20PM

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/killer-lured-aidan-1568622.html

Darragh29 · 09-12-2008 06:21PM

Terry wrote: »

Blame the parents, blame society, blame the government, blame Gardner street, blame the person who gave him the gun.

Is there no such thing as personal responsibility left in this country?

If anything needs to be done, it should be the government drafting in laws to treat minors as adults in cases like this.
Don't let the little bastard out for 20 years, or whatever murderers get these days.

The person behind the gun is the one to blame. Nobody else.

Blame ourselves Terry, we are tolerating it for too long now. We'll be having this same discussion in a few months time but the circumstances will be more startling.

Zombrex · 09-12-2008 06:26PM

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Do you have stats on the success of prison rehabiliation?

In Ireland no, not that I can find, because as far as I know we don't do any proper rehabilitation programs in Ireland.

In other countries rehabilitation programs, education programs, training and drug programs have show success. I'm amazed we don't do it properly here considering how many repeat offenders we have, but then it is probably seen as too good for criminals.

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Btw the cops in the area run a type of 'mentoring' system with young offenders; trying to dissuade them from returning to a life of crime etc . It has a 50% success rate. Still leaves 50% of these toe-rags running around causing mayhem.

As opposed to what? Beating them all up? Which has what, a 100% success rate?

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

I'd be surprised if rehabilitation manages to impact on 50% of the prison populace. Not suggesting that we SHOULDN'T try it....but let's face it there are some people who are beyond help. And a 15 year old who guns down a man is beyond help. Just my opinion.

Yes but you say that as if there is another option. There isn't. Prison, as it is, doesn't work. 60% to 80% of prison population will re-offend within the first year FFS. The idea that they sit in prison going "This sucks, I'm going to try really hard never to come back" is naive and antiquated.

If you don't do anything with them in prison, try to fix them, you are simply postponing the inevitable. They will serve their time, get out and the first thing they will do is re-offend

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Solution? 35 years in prison (and I mean the full whack) where he is forced to 'work' (breaking rocks, building roads whatever)...try rehabiliation as well (let them get the Leaving, College Degrees etc). But murder is murder...and at 15 you know right from wrong.

Yes but what does that actually achieve? What does that actually do beyond making the population feel better?

You lock him up until he is 50 and he gets out and the first thing he does is kill someone or rape someone. Brilliant, money well spent.

Darragh29 · 09-12-2008 06:27PM

And you wouldn't guess what else has now come out in the washing!?!?!

This little 13 year old C*NT, was actually out on bail for another offence at the time Aidan O'Kane was shot to death yesterday and this pea balled little c*nt was involved in the incident!!!

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/aidans-son-tells-of-moment-dad-was-cut-down-1568236.html

Terry · 09-12-2008 06:28PM

Darragh29 wrote: »

Blame ourselves Terry, we are tolerating it for too long now. We'll be having this same discussion in a few months time but the circumstances will be more startling.

Which is why longer sentences are needed.

Zombrex · 09-12-2008 06:29PM

Terry wrote: »

The person behind the gun is the one to blame. Nobody else.

Head. Sand. Ummm, this is nice and cosy

Blame is irrelevant. Blame him all you like, he doesn't care nor will it stop him re-offending. It won't bring back the poor man who got shot, nor will it stop something like this happening again.

Zombrex · 09-12-2008 06:30PM

Terry wrote: »

Which is why longer sentences are needed.

To achieve what?

Zombrex · 09-12-2008 06:35PM

Darragh29 wrote: »

And you wouldn't guess what else has now come out in the washing!?!?!

This little 13 year old C*NT, was actually out on bail for another offence at the time Aidan O'Kane was shot to death yesterday and this pea balled little c*nt was involved in the incident!!!

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/aidans-son-tells-of-moment-dad-was-cut-down-1568236.html

Well there you go, a shining example of the effectiveness of the system :rolleyes:

I wonder how much time was spend actually with this child while he was reprimanded. How many social workers or psychologists talked to him? How much money was spend attempting to identify what was wrong and fix it.

And now a man is dead.

The system is broken. People can shout from the roof tops all they like about personal responsibility, about "blame the criminal damn it!!!", doesn't make a bit of difference.

You either lock everyone up for ever which is totally impractical even ignoring the moral aspects, or you try and actually spend time and money fixing the problems.

120_Minutes · 09-12-2008 06:57PM

If life imitated art, in about 15 years the slain mans son would be the next batman and eradicate the scum from the streets, and i would stand by and applaud.

Terry · 09-12-2008 07:00PM

Wicknight wrote: »

Well there you go, a shining example of the effectiveness of the system :rolleyes:

I wonder how much time was spend actually with this child while he was reprimanded. How many social workers or psychologists talked to him? How much money was spend attempting to identify what was wrong and fix it.

And now a man is dead.

The system is broken. People can shout from the roof tops all they like about personal responsibility, about "blame the criminal damn it!!!", doesn't make a bit of difference.

You either lock everyone up for ever which is totally impractical even ignoring the moral aspects, or you try and actually spend time and money fixing the problems.

So how will you fix the system?

Will you mollycoddle the poor little unfortunate people who happened to grow up on the wrong side of the tracks?
The poor little things. God bless them. Society never gave them a chance.

09-12-2008 07:07PM

I've found a solution. We'll stick Wicknight in the cell with him for 8 hours a day. Just the two of them like. Surely if he's cuddled enough he'll come out a fine young chap.

marcsignal · 09-12-2008 07:11PM

Terry wrote: »

So how will you fix the system?

i was just about to ask that too, because whatever we've been doing up to now is not working.

I thought it was interesting to note in todays herald also, that a man who was stalking 'Enya' at her Dalkey home was promptly arrested and fined, and I'm pretty sure if he does it again, he'll be locked up.

Fighting Irish · 09-12-2008 07:12PM

Its up to the parents, but as usual with most things these days, parents don't want the responsibility

Ulysses Gaze · 09-12-2008 07:13PM

You lock him up until he is 50 and he gets out and the first thing he does is kill someone or rape someone. Brilliant, money well spent.

...if you read what I said....when he's in there attempt rehabilitation. :rolleyes:

And by working in prison he is generating something productive for society....he's paying for his own keep essentially.

How many social workers or psychologists talked to him?

Social worker and a cup of tea and he'll be grand...........:rolleyes:

That's the ticket. Every little toerag in the country gets a social worker and all our troubles will be solved.

Ever think that they maybe tried and it had no impact? I think it's pretty standard for state social workers and psychologists to talk to minors who've committed ofences.

Dave! · 09-12-2008 07:18PM

Terry wrote: »

So how will you fix the system?

Will you mollycoddle the poor little unfortunate people who happened to grow up on the wrong side of the tracks?
The poor little things. God bless them. Society never gave them a chance.

Compelling argument as ever Terry.

I don't think it's Wicknight's job to fix the justice system, he's just pointing out that it is currently broken. Dermot Ahern's yer man, give him a bell.

MooseJam · 09-12-2008 07:21PM

It should be illegal for poor people to have children, they should have to pass rigorous tests first, if not the children should be taken off them.

Ulysses Gaze · 09-12-2008 07:29PM

It should be illegal for poor people to have children, they should have to pass rigorous tests first, if not the children should be taken off them.

What about the shower who murdered Brian Murphy? Middle and upper-middle class to the core.

You can't (shouldn't) differentiate based on social class.

marcsignal · 09-12-2008 07:45PM

I spent a year living in Dachau, outside Munich, with a divorcee called 'Karmen' who had 2 boys aged 9 and 13. One day the 2 lads, with a few of their mates, shot out a lamp on a neighbours front pillar with an airsoft gun. The neighbour phoned the house and complained, and that night the 2 lads got a roasting from their mother, and the airsoft guns were all binned.

The following afternoon at 4pm the doorbell rang, and there on the doorstep, were a man and woman from Social Services, who were sent to investigate the complaint. They had unrestricted access to the house (which is privately owned) and during their visit, requested to see school reports (which are kept in a box file by ALL German parents for their respective children), which they fully inspected for any irregularities. They then turned to ME and asked who i was, what I was doing in Germany, what i worked at in Ireland, and inspected my papers/passport etc. the details of which they took, and I'm pretty sure they did a backround check later.

We were told this house call was nothing to worry about, and that it was just routine in such a case. Later 'Karmen' told me that had they had found evidence of neglect, violence, alcoholism, drug abuse, dubious right wing political affiliations, stolen property or other criminal activity etc, the children would be taken away.

If that's what you mean by investing money and time, and 'fixing the system' Wicknight ? Then I'm all for it, because those kids have not been in any trouble since

Orange69 · 09-12-2008 07:53PM

marcsignal wrote: »

I spent a year living in Dachau, outside Munich, with a divorcee called 'Karmen' who had 2 boys aged 9 and 13. One day the 2 lads, with a few of their mates, shot out a lamp on a neighbours front pillar with an airsoft gun. The neighbour phoned the house and complained, and that night the 2 lads got a roasting from their mother, and the airsoft guns were all binned.

The following afternoon at 4pm the doorbell rang, and there on the doorstep, were a man and woman from Social Services, who were sent to investigate the complaint. They had unrestricted access to the house (which is privately owned) and during their visit, requested to see school reports (which are kept in a box file by ALL German parents for their respective children), which they fully inspected for any irregularities. They then turned to ME and asked who i was, what I was doing in Germany, what i worked at in Ireland, and inspected my papers/passport etc. the details of which they took, and I'm pretty sure they did a backround check later.

We were told this house call was nothing to worry about, and that it was just routine in such a case. Later 'Karmen' told me that had they had found evidence of neglect, violence, alcoholism, drug abuse, dubious right wing political affiliations, stolen property or other criminal activity etc, the children would be taken away.

If that's what you mean by investing money and time, and 'fixing the system' Wicknight ? Then I'm all for it, because those kids have not been in any trouble since

The liberal idiots wouldn't what that either.. that would infringe on the "rights" of the parents..

kleefarr · 09-12-2008 07:55PM

Darragh29 wrote: »

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/killer-lured-aidan-1568622.html

:mad: Fackers!

Man murdered by youth(s) after home attacked(yes it happened in Ireland)

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