They're leaving :/

Nodin · 09-12-2008 03:35PM

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

To be honest I don't expect much if any cultural contributions from Polish migrants, since they don't intend to stick around for the most part.

Vs.

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

On the contrary, that was my whole point. This country is entering into a very difficult time economically, and we cannot afford to allow the same level of inwards migration from your very much larger country.

Dear me.

SimpleSam06 · 09-12-2008 03:38PM

Nodin wrote: »

...which presumes that not only does it occur, but that it occurs in an amount detrimental to the economy.

Enlighten us then, tell us why the vast majority of the Polish come here? Keep in mind that one of the abovementioned worthies has already made it quite clear, a few posts back.

Nodin wrote: »

And whatever argument I might derail here

And right there is where you fall down.

Nodin wrote: »

You've supplied naught but anecdote and bile. Theres actually very little to reason with in between.

Definetely time to overhaul the Irish education system.

Nodin wrote: »

A mixture of narcissim, arrogance, anger and some rough experiences with Polish people I'd imagine.

You tend to imagine quite a lot, I notice!

Nodin wrote: »

As you are the chief Jerker here, I'd have to defer to you on that at least.

Great. Can you make your next post with crayons please, I'll meet you on the swings to continue the discussion.

SimpleSam06 · 09-12-2008 03:40PM

Nodin wrote: »

Dear me.

Ah I see, you think I have a problem with Polish culture in Ireland? This is chronic lad, you'd best be getting yourself away to specsavers if you want to see through that strawman you've built. Or at least read English.

Nodin · 09-12-2008 03:42PM

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Enlighten us then, tell us why the vast majority of the Polish come here? Keep in mind that one of the abovementioned worthies has already made it quite clear, a few posts back..

They come here to work for money, or so I presumed. (I'd no idea there was a polish hivemind)

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Great. Can you make your next post with crayons please, I'll meet you on the swings to continue the discussion.

Fair enough. You wouldn't mind bringing with you a few things please, chief amongst them being a link to some research indicating that polish migrant workers have been detrimental to the economy.

TwoShedsJackson · 09-12-2008 03:44PM

snyper wrote: »

The roma

A Roma with a job, yeah that'll happen. As long as the Roma fu<k off out of the country now that we're in the depths of a recession, proves there's an upside to everything.

Nodin · 09-12-2008 03:47PM

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Ah I see, (...)glish.

Not at all. I'm merely amazed at your ability to engage in doublethink on the matter.

Soon we might even see threads about "The Polish Question" with you constantly referring to them in the singular....

SimpleSam06 · 09-12-2008 03:57PM

Nodin wrote: »

They come here to work for money, or so I presumed. (I'd no idea there was a polish hivemind)

Oh, okay, so lets see. We've finally by a tortuous process got you to admit that they come here for money. So what do you think they do with that money? I mean besides eat and rent. Honest opinion here.

Nodin wrote: »

Fair enough. You wouldn't mind bringing with you a few things please, chief amongst them being a link to some research indicating that polish migrant workers have been detrimental to the economy.

If you're looking for links at this stage you really haven't been paying any attention at all throughout the discussion. Or, alternately, you have no intention of discussing it rationally, being conviced no doubt that you are speaking to a member of stormfront and my rabid biases will poke through any time now, to the general amusement of all. Any minute now.

Nodin wrote: »

Not at all. I'm merely amazed at your ability to engage in doublethink on the matter.

And I'm amazed at your inability to seperate cultural and economic ramifications mentally.

Nodin wrote: »

Soon we might even see threads about "The Polish Question" with you constantly referring to them in the singular....

And, godwinned. Brilliant.

Boskowski · 09-12-2008 03:59PM

What about the Germans?

Nodin · 09-12-2008 04:27PM

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Oh, okay, so lets see. We've finally by a tortuous process got you to admit that they come here for money. So what do you think they do with that money? I mean besides eat and rent. Honest opinion here..

Save some, spend some, send a few bob home.....

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

If you're looking for links at this stage you really haven't been paying any attention at all throughout the discussion.

Actually when I was pointing out earlier that your case was based on purely anecdotal "evidence" - that was me being subtle about the same thing. Wasting my time there, but what the hell....

Wheres the data? What percentage of the average Pole working in Ireland goes home and what percentage stays here? Is it sufficent to damage the economy?

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Or, alternately,(.....)now..

Perish the thought. I doubt the ruffians of stormfront would be company for such a sage as yourself.

As for your biases, I fear they broke on through to the other side quite some time ago.

golum · 09-12-2008 04:36PM

Question isn't how many will leave but which ones, ie pretty girls or lads pi**ing on the boardwork. I think we might be left with the losers and the good ones will go as they have better things they could be doing. Hope this isn't the case though...

Kintarō Hattori · 09-12-2008 04:37PM

Alexandria Broad Rawhide wrote: »

Blame the worker or the employer for this one.

Just back from dunnes, was looking for a jelly bowl.

Polish worker: I don't know anything about them, ask somebody else...

She could have enquired for me, christ.

And that's never happened to you with an irish/other nationality Dunnes worker? Have you ever shopped in Dunnes on north earl street? Absolutely useless.

djpbarry · 09-12-2008 04:41PM

Alexandria Broad Rawhide wrote: »

Blame the worker or the employer for this one.

Just back from dunnes, was looking for a jelly bowl.

Polish worker: I don't know anything about them, ask somebody else...

She could have enquired for me, christ.

I didn't realise Dunnes now require all of their staff to have their nationality stamped on their forehead?

djpbarry · 09-12-2008 04:58PM

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Taxation is also viewed as leakage in the Keynesian injection-leakage model. We aren't talking about taxes, we're talking about the economy.

Are you trying to tell me that tax revenue and the economy at large are mutually exclusive? An increase in tax revenue is not good for the economy?

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Yes, the same way we bumped the public sector up to record sizes during the boom and now live happily ever after. Oh no wait, we are actually running a massive deficit which will grow year on year.

Your analogy with the public sector is a ridiculous one. As I have already pointed out, the workforce is shrinking due to emigration.

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

So you have no further evidence of the permeation of Polish culture into Ireland? Thats it, thats your cultural integration? Jesus Christ.

I listed a handful of Polish cultural happenings in Ireland to show that you were wrong when you said that the Polish contribution to culture in this country was zero. You then decided to raise the bar and critique said contribution – apparently it does not meet your high standards.

You want me to list every cultural contribution of every Pole in the country? Why? What would that prove? What exactly is it that you expect from these people? If every Pole in Ireland produced a play, film, novel or poem every week, would that suffice? Or would you then complain that the Poles are expecting you to learn Polish so you can appreciate their culture?

While we’re on the subject, what has the average Irish person contributed to culture in this country over the last 4 years? **** all I’d say, and that’s being kind.

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

I think you'll find whats obvious to you is a bit of an acid trip to the rest of the world.

Not so. There are significant populations of Chinese, French and Italians in this country (in Dublin at least). Probably less so Thai. No acid required.

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Gah. Enough. This circle jerk is a waste of time.

Can you please stop throwing your toys everywhere – you’re going to hurt someone.

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

The (minor) issue was not whether or not Polish people had any culture, it was their cultural contribution to Ireland, which has been fairly conclusively proven to be negligible.

Conclusively proven? By who?

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

To be honest I don't expect much if any cultural contributions from Polish migrants, since they don't intend to stick around for the most part.

Really? Have you asked them all?

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

The point being that those migrants intend to stay here and become part of the community.

Eh, wait now. I thought “they don't intend to stick around for the most part”?

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

This country is entering into a very difficult time economically, and we cannot afford to allow the same level of inwards migration from your very much larger country.

We have to allow Polish migrants to come to Ireland if they wish – we’re all part of the EU, remember? Fortunately for you, far fewer migrants are coming to Ireland these days because we’ve done such a terrific job of ****ing up our economy.

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

We've finally by a tortuous process got you to admit that they come here for money. So what do you think they do with that money?

I think it would be far more appropriate to direct that question at you. What do YOU think they do with their money? More importantly, do you have ANY evidence to back up your beliefs, beyond your lovely little anecdotes?

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

If you're looking for links at this stage you really haven't been paying any attention at all throughout the discussion.

Haven’t we? Unless I am very much mistaken, you have produced none.

Kintarō Hattori · 09-12-2008 05:05PM

djpbarry wrote: »

Haven’t we? Unless I am very much mistaken, you have produced none.

Good point.

anonymous_joe · 09-12-2008 05:07PM

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

To be honest I don't expect much if any cultural contributions from Polish migrants, since they don't intend to stick around for the most part.

The point being that those migrants intend to stay here and become part of the community.

On the contrary, that was my whole point. This country is entering into a very difficult time economically, and we cannot afford to allow the same level of inwards migration from your very much larger country. Some people here tell me that makes me a racist, which is irritating, unless reality is racist.

What would your opinions be on the many Irish people who went abroad to work for a while, but sure, they didn't really intend on staying.

Poles are the same race as us.

Everywhere in the world is having a tough time, we were delighted to let people come into this country and fuel an economic boom, but now we're in tough times you want them all gone? What are you? Swiss?

Tchaikovsky · 09-12-2008 05:13PM

I agree, the Poles have alot more in common with us historically and culturally than say, the British, (common language excluded) who are actually the largest foreign population in Ireland.
In saying that, the glaring fact that the population has risen by over 10% in the last 5 years is just too much and I think that our governmental overlords seem(ed) to take us for the US, Canada or Australia, sighting how they could deal with mass immigration. Sam pointed it out already, we're a tiny country and we're seeing the effects of this lack of foresight already on the job's front, housing and school places.
There has to be a balance in helping our European brethren and protecting our own citizens.

mountainyman · 09-12-2008 05:26PM

jester77 wrote: »

It's all a conspiracy... just like the recession. Tell people there's a recession and it will happen. Tell the immigrants they are all leaving and they will!

There's alot of truth in that. Some people will leave and those who stay are very welcome.

mountainyman · 09-12-2008 05:48PM

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

To be honest I don't expect much if any cultural contributions from Polish migrants, since they don't intend to stick around for the most part.

I don't think that we should welcome our new Polish overlords but you are saying that the Poles have no culture- then that they have a culture but don't contribute to ours and now that even if they do contribute to ours because alot of them will be going home soon their contributions don't count.

I think you are being quite stuck in your thinking.

mike65 · 09-12-2008 05:52PM

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

I agree, the Poles have alot more in common with us historically and culturally than say, the British, (common language excluded)

Go on then, list those commonalities!

djpbarry · 09-12-2008 06:00PM

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

I agree, the Poles have alot more in common with us historically and culturally than say, the British...

That's stretching it just ever so slightly, don't you think?

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

...we're a tiny country and we're seeing the effects of this lack of foresight already on the job's front, housing and school places.

All of which is down to poor planning, which still would have existed in the absence of immigration.

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

There has to be a balance in helping our European brethren and protecting our own citizens.

Protect them from what? Polish beer? It's actually quite good you know.

Tchaikovsky · 09-12-2008 06:02PM

Strong influence of religion, similar attitude to drink, centuries of oppression, mass emigration, clerical abuse, hairy women, the butt of jokes, smoke like chimneys, importance of family.

zonEEE · 09-12-2008 07:35PM

Well for teenagers like myself looking for summer jobs and the like it will be good, it was near impossible to get a summer job last year. Nearly all them type of jobs were taken by the poles.

anonymous_joe · 09-12-2008 07:48PM

strongr wrote: »

Well for teenagers like myself looking for summer jobs and the like it will be good, it was near impossible to get a summer job last year. Nearly all them type of jobs were taken by the poles.

Those thieving bástards, with their skills, taking jobs from untrained kids. :P

Hey, I've got the same problem, but I don't hold it against them. Given how many countries Irish people did that in, do we really have a right to complain?

zonEEE · 09-12-2008 07:55PM

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Those thieving bástards, with their skills, taking jobs from untrained kids. :P

Hey, I've got the same problem, but I don't hold it against them. Given how many countries Irish people did that in, do we really have a right to complain?

Sorry? what skills do they have to work in a shop? Loads cant even speak English that good.

Im fairly sure at 17 im capable of working in a shop the same as them and even do it better when it comes to consumer/communication skills.

earlyevening · 09-12-2008 09:29PM

strongr wrote: »

Loads cant even speak English that good.

Lol. I think you mean "that well."

Terry · 09-12-2008 09:48PM

Was reading the star earlier in the chippers. It claims that 1,300 poles are leaving every week.

That's an average of 130 houses being vacated every week.

zonEEE · 09-12-2008 09:51PM

earlyevening wrote: »

Lol. I think you mean "that well."

.................................................

syklops · 09-12-2008 11:32PM

strongr wrote: »

Sorry? what skills do they have to work in a shop? Loads cant even speak English that good.

LOL. Oooh the irony.

Im fairly sure at 17 im capable of working in a shop the same as them and even do it better when it comes to consumer/communication skills.

Yet they got the job? Why is that? Did you go into every shop you saw, presented yourself in neat attire, and enquire on the possibilities for a job, like they did? Or did you just shove a CV under the door and move on?

SimpleSam either is

(A)Hungover
(B)Constipated
(C)A mindless, bigotted fool

I am leaning towards (C). He fails to realise a couple of things. First off, regardless of what RTE would have you believe, all poles do not work in either construction or pork production plants. They are evenly spread across a large number of industries, and many hold roles in high level IT and Pharmaceutical jobs. To back this up, my fiancee(polish) works as a Sys Admin in a major Dublin Universtiy. Several people I work with are polish, and the reason they have those jobs is because we could not find irish people with their skills.

As for what additions they have made to our culture, you can get polish beer in my local spar. It is half the price of alot of the other stuff, and tastes 10 times better than Dutch Gold. You can buy zubrowka in alot of pubs. And, you can buy excellent polish sausage and bread.

I know SimpleSam is going to say, thats not much of an impact, so please answer me this. Culturally, what difference has Ireland made in America? Apart from being able to buy guinness in most pubs and that some people know what a rasher is?

09-12-2008 11:34PM

Terry wrote: »

Was reading the star earlier in the chippers. It claims that 1,300 poles are leaving every week.

That's an average of 130 houses being vacated every week.

130 landlords without any income!

10 per house? do they really shack up that many in a house!

zonEEE · 09-12-2008 11:43PM

syklops wrote: »

LOL. Oooh the irony.

Yet they got the job? Why is that? Did you go into every shop you saw, presented yourself in neat attire, and enquire on the possibilities for a job, like they did? Or did you just shove a CV under the door and move on?

SimpleSam either is

(A)Hungover
(B)Constipated
(C)A mindless, bigotted fool

I am leaning towards (C). He fails to realise a couple of things. First off, regardless of what RTE would have you believe, all poles do not work in either construction or pork production plants. They are evenly spread across a large number of industries, and many hold roles in high level IT and Pharmaceutical jobs. To back this up, my fiancee(polish) works as a Sys Admin in a major Dublin Universtiy. Several people I work with are polish, and the reason they have those jobs is because we could not find irish people with their skills.

As for what additions they have made to our culture, you can get polish beer in my local spar. It is half the price of alot of the other stuff, and tastes 10 times better than Dutch Gold. You can buy zubrowka in alot of pubs. And, you can buy excellent polish sausage and bread.

I know SimpleSam is going to say, thats not much of an impact, so please answer me this. Culturally, what difference has Ireland made in America? Apart from being able to buy guinness in most pubs and that some people know what a rasher is?

No I have a Job and have had one for 4 years now. But just speaking for teenagers in general, nearly all of my friends couldn't get one and its the same for most of the country.

They're leaving :/

Comments