They're leaving :/

Nodin · 09-12-2008 01:02PM

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

And here we(....)all racists.

Dear me. Somebody must have spilt tea on their good blouse this morning.

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Where is the Polish music? Where is the literary work they have added to our culture, the plays, the movies, the slang, the sense of humour

No, theres no Polish literary works, art or Film directors, in any shade or colour. They just exist to lurk in other countries and snub you socially should they meet you, for reasons we can't possiby guess at.

Given your attitude, I doubt you'd notice any if they bit you, which, given the bitterness on display, is unlikely to occur.

djpbarry · 09-12-2008 01:10PM

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

And here we have the politically correct in their knock kneed run for the sun, weaned on lethal weapon 2 and fortified in academia, insulated from any form of reality by the taxes of others, sneers on their pasty faces while they wait for the pension to kick in, no reasoning required other than the righteousness of their cause, in the new religion of enlightened passive agression (although the new boss looks strangley like the old boss), upon whose altar you can sacrifice anything, your children's future, your family, your rights as a human being, whatever, just to get at those evil white middle class men in the first world. Who are all racists.

Blah, blah, blah. My point stands.

AckwelFoley · 09-12-2008 01:12PM

niceirishfella wrote: »

and who's going to drive all our trucks for 20+ hours a day? HUH?

The roma

SimpleSam06 · 09-12-2008 01:15PM

Nodin wrote: »

Dear me. Somebody must have spilt tea on their good blouse this morning.

Nice one.

Nodin wrote: »

No, theres no Polish literary works, art or Film directors, in any shade or colour.

If you wouldn't mind pointing out their impact on our culture here in Ireland, you know that country we are talking about in this discussion, I'd be delighted. What, nothing? Its almost like they mostly didn't mingle with the local population and just took their money and went off back to Poland!

Nodin wrote: »

Given your attitude, I doubt you'd notice any if they bit you, which, given the bitterness on display, is unlikely to occur.

Personally, I like Polish people. They are polite and hard working. If I was in their shoes I would probably do the same thing, much the same as if I was born a Mexican I would want to go to the USA to work. I'm not though. I don't like the effect they are having on my country, as a group, and I don't like the government that allowed them to get there. That may be a faux pas in the world of the hard of thinking, but its the only country we have, and we do need to look after it.

djpbarry wrote:

Blah, blah, blah. My point stands.

Everything I expected in a comeback.

djpbarry · 09-12-2008 01:18PM

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Where is the Polish music? Where is the literary work they have added to our culture, the plays, the movies, the slang, the sense of humour, anything beyond sausages and apparently mint vodka? They may as well not be here for all the impact they have had.

There was a Polish art exhibition in the National Gallery about 12 months ago:
http://www.artmagick.com/exhibitions/exhibition.aspx?id=954&name=paintings-from-poland-symbolism-to-modern-art

There was also a Polish film festival last year:
http://www.irishfilm.ie/cinema/season2_07.asp?SID=135

I know of a Polish pub in Limerick (I'm sure it's not the only one in the country) that plays Polish music:
http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2005/05/19/story407869044.asp

But you know what, you're right: the Poles are totally devoid of culture. :rolleyes:

Nodin · 09-12-2008 01:20PM

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

If you wouldn't mind pointing out their impact on our culture here in Ireland, you know that country we are talking about in this discussion, I'd be delighted. What, nothing? Its almost like they mostly didn't mingle with the local population and just took their money and went off back to Poland!.

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

I don't like the effect they are having on my country, as a group, and I don't like the government that allowed them to get there. That may be a faux pas in the world of the hard of thinking, but its the only country we have, and we do need to look after it.

Wouldst thou have thine cake and eat of it too?

Nodin · 09-12-2008 01:23PM

djpbarry wrote: »

There was a Polish art exhibition in the National Gallery about 12 months ago:
http://www.artmagick.com/exhibitions/exhibition.aspx?id=954&name=paintings-from-poland-symbolism-to-modern-art

There was also a Polish film festival last year:
http://www.irishfilm.ie/cinema/season2_07.asp?SID=135

I know of a Polish pub in Limerick (I'm sure it's not the only one in the country) that plays Polish music:
http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2005/05/19/story407869044.asp

But you know what, you're right: the Poles are totally devoid of culture. :rolleyes:

Now look, this is a serious discussion. Theres no room here for your politically correct, sneering, "facts" to confuse things. Next thing we'll have reality, and we all know its liberal bias....

Kintarō Hattori · 09-12-2008 01:26PM

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

And here we have the politically correct in their knock kneed run for the sun, weaned on lethal weapon 2 and fortified in academia, insulated from any form of reality by the taxes of others, sneers on their pasty faces while they wait for the pension to kick in, no reasoning required other than the righteousness of their cause, in the new religion of enlightened passive agression (although the new boss looks strangley like the old boss), upon whose altar you can sacrifice anything, your children's future, your family, your rights as a human being, whatever, just to get at those evil white middle class men in the first world. Who are all racists.

As we have come to expect with you Sam should someone disagree with you they are always wrong because they are either:

A) Politically correct or

They don't know what they are talking about. And of course you always do.

SimpleSam06 · 09-12-2008 01:32PM

djpbarry wrote: »

But you know what, you're right: the Poles are totally devoid of culture. :rolleyes:

When you learn how to read, get back to me. Actually, no, don't bother.

Nodin wrote: »

Wouldst thou have thine cake and eat of it too?

You are comparing chalk and cheese. The cultural thing is more or less an aside in terms of the discussion on the benefits the Polish have brought to Ireland. My primary issue is with the economic side of things. Its like the public sector here, when the economy was booming, it was allowed to grow tremendously out of control, and now we are facing deficits of billions of euros annually just to pay for it.

In a similar fashion our (tiny) economy was able to deal with a huge influx of economic migrants (thats around 10% of the population in a few years) while the going was good, but now with unemployment predicted to almost double in the next year, should we still be allowing in enormous numbers of people whose main goal is to shunt as much money as they can permanently out of the country?

Nodin wrote: »

Now look, this is a serious discussion. Theres no room here for your politically correct, sneering, "facts" to confuse things. Next thing we'll have reality, and we all know its liberal bias....

Reality is not your friend in this discussion.

Loving those american catchphrases though.

Kintar&#333 wrote: »

As we have come to expect with you Sam should someone disagree with you they are always wrong because they are either:

A) Politically correct or
They don't know what they are talking about. And of course you always do.

Whatever, you're invested up to your eyeballs in them, so its much easier to accuse people of being prejuidiced than to come up with a reasoned argument.

SimpleSam06 · 09-12-2008 01:46PM

Yeah, now watch everyone shut the fcuk up.

Nodin · 09-12-2008 01:53PM

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

In a similar fashion our (tiny) economy was able to deal with a huge influx of economic migrants (thats around 10% of the population in a few years) while the going was good, but now with unemployment predicted to almost double in the next year, should we still be allowing in enormous numbers of people whose main goal is to shunt as much money as they can permanently out of the country?.

Thats been dealt with earlier. You managed to miss it, but that seems to be par for this particular course.

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Reality is not your friend in this discussion.

You'll find quite the contrary. So far from you we've merely had anecdotes, sweeping generalisations, and no small amount of hostility. That does not a case based in reality make.

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Whatever, you're invested up to your eyeballs in them, so its much easier to accuse people of being prejuidiced than to come up with a reasoned argument.

'point out people who are being prejudiced than to bother entertaining their shi/te.' would probably be closer to the mark.

Kintarō Hattori · 09-12-2008 01:54PM

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

When you learn how to read, get back to me. Actually, no, don't bother.

Hardly the intelligent response you seek so often from us in our retorts to your statements. There's never any need to be rude Sam.

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Whatever, you're invested up to your eyeballs in them, so its much easier to accuse people of being prejuidiced than to come up with a reasoned argument.

Sam I'm not accusing you of anything but yeah you do seem to really have an issue with immigrants.

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Yeah, now watch everyone shut the fcuk up.

???

big b · 09-12-2008 01:54PM

Jeez, deja vu moment.

A lot of people whose own country isn't doing well move to other countries for work. They send home some of the money they make. They tend to congregate with their own kind while they're away. They are subjected to ignorant racist typecasting by some of their host population.

Certainly seems eerily familiar.

Nodin · 09-12-2008 01:55PM

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Yeah, now watch everyone shut the fcuk up.

That really must have been a nice blouse.

Whens this shutting up going to occur, btw?

djpbarry · 09-12-2008 01:56PM

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

djpbarry wrote: »

But you know what, you're right: the Poles are totally devoid of culture. :rolleyes:

When you learn how to read, get back to me. Actually, no, don't bother.

You have claimed that Poles have contributed nothing in the way of culture to this country. I have shown (as if it needed to be shown) that you are wrong. Now you will probably attempt to shift the goalposts in some way and imply that you were somehow misrepresented in what you said.

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

You are comparing chalk and cheese. The cultural thing is more or less an aside in terms of the discussion on the benefits the Polish have brought to Ireland.

Oh look at that - the cultural issue has now become an "aside". Why's that I wonder?

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

...should we still be allowing in enormous numbers of people whose main goal is to shunt as much money as they can permanently out of the country?

What are you on about? Immigration is plummeting and net emigration is forecast for 2009.

SimpleSam06 · 09-12-2008 02:11PM

Nodin wrote: »

Thats been dealt with earlier. You managed to miss it, but that seems to be par for this particular course.

If you call "but they spend money on rent" dealing with it, you are in for a rude awakening.

Nodin wrote: »

You'll find quite the contrary. So far from you we've merely had anecdotes, sweeping generalisations, and no small amount of hostility. That does not a case based in reality make.

More with the hard of reading. I despair for the Irish education system.

Nodin wrote: »

'point out people who are being prejudiced than to bother entertaining their shi/te.' would probably be closer to the mark.

Now that sort of comment is par for the course around here.

Nodin wrote: »

Whens this shutting up going to occur, btw?

As far as I'm concerned you have already shut the fcuk up, since you have apparently no response to the economic issues.

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

Hardly the intelligent response you seek so often from us in our retorts to your statements. There's never any need to be rude Sam.

Accusing me of prejuidice makes me prickly.

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

Sam I'm not accusing you of anything but yeah you do seem to really have an issue with immigrants.

At this very moment I just got off the phone with my Asian wife, and I have to drop in a dish to the Nigerian neighbours later, they made us some sort of curried rice. Its not the first time you have mentioned this about me though. Remeber the Romanian thread?

big b wrote: »

A lot of people whose own country isn't doing well move to other countries for work.

This is not the USA, we are a tiny and pretty impoverished country on the edge of the Atlantic, we cannot absorb large populations of economic migrants.

djpbarry wrote:

You have claimed that Poles have contributed nothing in the way of culture to this country. I have shown (as if it needed to be shown) that you are wrong. Now you will probably attempt to shift the goalposts in some way and imply that you were somehow misrepresented in what you said.

I could go my whole life in this country and never encounter a single Polish influence outside a few food shops. If a few exhibitions and a pub make for a profound cultural influence in your world, then the Chinese, Thais, French and Italians must also have a decent percentage of the population. I'm surprised there are any Irish people left at all!

djpbarry wrote:

What are you on about? Immigration is plummeting and net emigration is forecast for 2009.

Who is forecasting this? The newspaper article took a small random sampling of Polish people and published that they were all going home. I have yet to see figures on inward migration to Ireland in 2009, especially from the tens of millions of Poles who never set foot here.

Nodin · 09-12-2008 02:33PM

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

If you call "but they spend money on rent" dealing with it, you are in for a rude awakening..

Rent, food, cars, fuel, drink, and various consumables. And thats just the ones who have no intention of staying.

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

As far as I'm concerned you have already shut the fcuk up, since you have apparently no response to the economic issues...

When we unwrap your "economic issues" they seem to best summarised as " O NO35SS!!!! - TH3Y S3ND T3H M0NAI H0M3!!!". Simplisitic, childish, and anecdotal.

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Accusing me of prejuidice makes me prickly....

I think you've made enough of a prickle of yourself entirely on your own.

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

At this very (.....)thread? ....

Anecdotal.

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

This is not the USA, we are a tiny and pretty impoverished country on the edge of the Atlantic, we cannot absorb large populations of economic migrants.....

....but as they've been here, and a good deal of them are now going, its rather hard to understand why you're on about this now.....

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

I could go my whole life in this country and never encounter a single Polish influence outside a few food shops. .

Quelle Suprise.

dlofnep · 09-12-2008 02:34PM

Can they leave the women for us?

djpbarry · 09-12-2008 02:48PM

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

If you call "but they spend money on rent" dealing with it, you are in for a rude awakening.

So Poles have made absolutely no contribution to the economy whatsoever, eh? No contribution to the state coffers?

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

As far as I'm concerned you have already shut the fcuk up, since you have apparently no response to the economic issues.

Which “economic issues” are these now?

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

At this very moment I just got off the phone with my Asian wife, and I have to drop in a dish to the Nigerian neighbours later, they made us some sort of curried rice.

So it’s ok for you to use meaningless anecdotes, but everyone else must back up their arguments with facts and figures?

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

This is not the USA, we are a tiny and pretty impoverished country on the edge of the Atlantic, we cannot absorb large populations of economic migrants.

Can’t we? Seems to me that we already have.

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

I could go my whole life in this country and never encounter a single Polish influence outside a few food shops.

Ah, so now the argument switches from “the Poles have had no cultural influence on this country” to “the Poles have had no cultural influence on me”. That’s a bit of a difference now, isn’t it?

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

If a few exhibitions and a pub make for a profound cultural influence in your world…

Did I describe it as a profound cultural influence? I think you’ll find I did not. But a cultural influence it is, never-the-less.

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

…then the Chinese, Thais, French and Italians must also have a decent percentage of the population.

Eh …

Do I really need to point out the obvious here?

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Who is forecasting this?

The ESRI. You can download their quarterly commentary (October 2008) here.

I would have thought the looming spectre of net emigration was common knowledge by now.

beldub · 09-12-2008 02:52PM

I am not leaving...yet but I am veeery happy Poles are going back.I am happy for them as a Polish. I hope it's sign of what's coming. Happines in own country. It's happeing already.
I have no time though to reply to your post in detail Simple Sam 0.
----
We didn't come here to change your country - we came here to learn and earn.

If you want to taste a piece of culture just get on the plane to Krakow, Gdansk, Poznan and feel it....

Kintarō Hattori · 09-12-2008 03:00PM

beldub wrote: »

I am not leaving...yet but I am veeery happy Poles are going back.I am happy for them as a Polish. I hope it's sign of what's coming. Happines in own country. It's happeing already.
I have no time though to reply to your post in detail Simple Sam 0.
----
We didn't come here to change your country - we came here to learn and earn.

If you want to taste a piece of culture just get on the plane to Krakow, Gdansk, Poznan and feel it....

Hey you forgot Płock!

SimpleSam06 · 09-12-2008 03:04PM

Nodin wrote: »

Rent, food, cars, fuel, drink, and various consumables. And thats just the ones who have no intention of staying.

Ah I see, so they come here to rent houses and buy food and petrol. Indeed, all is clear to me now.

Nodin wrote: »

When we unwrap your "economic issues" they seem to best summarised as " O NO35SS!!!! - TH3Y S3ND T3H M0NAI H0M3!!!". Simplisitic, childish, and anecdotal.

You're right, they come here for the Guinness and the craic, no other reason. I mean its not like that sort of behaviour from a huge percentage of our working population would ever have any adverse effects on the economy. No doubt a financial titan such as yourself has discovered radical new findings to put the current thinking on theoretical macroeconomics on a whole new track, derailing decades of experience and work from some of the finest minds on earth.

Or, alternately, you could be trying to defend some sort of a perceived moral high ground with tedious passive aggression and heavy handed sarcasm rather than any actual reasoning. Yep, thats it.

djpbarry wrote:

So Poles have made absolutely no contribution to the economy whatsoever, eh? No contribution to the state coffers?

Taxation is also viewed as leakage in the Keynesian injection-leakage model. We aren't talking about taxes, we're talking about the economy. This is elementary stuff. Why am I bothering.

djpbarry wrote:

The ESRI. You can download their quarterly commentary (October 2008) here.

Oh thats good, I thought you were going to start quoting the CSO, who still think there are only 68,000 Poles in the country. lol.

djpbarry wrote:

Can’t we? Seems to me that we already have.

Yes, the same way we bumped the public sector up to record sizes during the boom and now live happily ever after. Oh no wait, we are actually running a massive deficit which will grow year on year. This was already mentioned. Again, why am I bothering.

djpbarry wrote:

Ah, so now the argument switches from “the Poles have had no cultural influence on this country” to “the Poles have had no cultural influence on me”. That’s a bit of a difference now, isn’t it?

Did I describe it as a profound cultural influence? I think you’ll find I did not. But a cultural influence it is, never-the-less.

So you have no further evidence of the permeation of Polish culture into Ireland? Thats it, thats your cultural integration? Jesus Christ.

djpbarry wrote:

Do I really need to point out the obvious here?

I think you'll find whats obvious to you is a bit of an acid trip to the rest of the world.

Nodin wrote: »

I think you've made enough of a prickle of yourself entirely on your own.

djpbarry wrote:

Which “economic issues” are these now?

Gah. Enough. This circle jerk is a waste of time.

beldub · 09-12-2008 03:05PM

no...there are no direct flights to Płock! hehe

SimpleSam06 · 09-12-2008 03:07PM

beldub wrote: »

If you want to taste a piece of culture just get on the plane to Krakow, Gdansk, Poznan and feel it....

The (minor) issue was not whether or not Polish people had any culture, it was their cultural contribution to Ireland, which has been fairly conclusively proven to be negligible.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 09-12-2008 03:15PM

Blame the worker or the employer for this one.

Just back from dunnes, was looking for a jelly bowl.

Polish worker: I don't know anything about them, ask somebody else...

She could have enquired for me, christ.

niceirishfella · 09-12-2008 03:17PM

Alexandria Broad Rawhide wrote: »

Blame the worker or the employer for this one.

Just back from dunnes, was looking for a jelly bowl.

Polish worker: I don't know anything about them, ask somebody else...

She could have enquired for me, christ.

if you were getting €8.65 an hour, would you be arsed?

beldub · 09-12-2008 03:23PM

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

The (minor) issue was not whether or not Polish people had any culture, it was their cultural contribution to Ireland, which has been fairly conclusively proven to be negligible.

I think you are not serious by saying that you have expected from people who came here to work/earn/learn to contribute hardly in to the irish culture so it's noticable in first few years!
That would be something you would get mad about! Some migrants having such a strong influence in your culture....
You must have forgotten that Poles came here to work/live , then once these basic needs are met there will be some people who will have their contribution to culture. BTW there are some already. ehh just google.

beldub · 09-12-2008 03:28PM

Alexandria Broad Rawhide wrote: »

Blame the worker or the employer for this one.

Just back from dunnes, was looking for a jelly bowl.

Polish worker: I don't know anything about them, ask somebody else...

She could have enquired for me, christ.

it's like saying blame all irish for drunken pissing/puking on the walls in historic old town of Krakow which was a major topic in papers.
It's stupid.

I don't like many Poles don't like many Irish. They are just humans . Good and bad.

SimpleSam06 · 09-12-2008 03:29PM

beldub wrote: »

I think you are not serious by saying that you have expected from people who came here to work/earn/learn to contribute hardly in to the irish culture so it's noticable in first few years!

To be honest I don't expect much if any cultural contributions from Polish migrants, since they don't intend to stick around for the most part.

beldub wrote: »

That would be something you would get mad about! Some migrants having such a strong influence in your culture....

The point being that those migrants intend to stay here and become part of the community.

beldub wrote: »

You must have forgotten that Poles came here to work/live

On the contrary, that was my whole point. This country is entering into a very difficult time economically, and we cannot afford to allow the same level of inwards migration from your very much larger country. Some people here tell me that makes me a racist, which is irritating, unless reality is racist.

Nodin · 09-12-2008 03:29PM

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Ah I see, so they come here to rent houses and buy food and petrol. Indeed, all is clear to me now..

I never mentioned why precisely they came here.

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

You're right, they come here for the Guinness and the craic, no other reason. ..

I doubt it.

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

I mean its not like that sort of behaviour from a huge percentage of our working population would ever have any adverse effects on the economy. ..

...which presumes that not only does it occur, but that it occurs in an amount detrimental to the economy.

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

No doubt a financial titan such as yourself has discovered radical new findings to put the current thinking on theoretical macroeconomics on a whole new track, derailing decades of experience and work from some of the finest minds on earth...

O I make no claims to be such. And whatever argument I might derail here, its most certainly not coming from decades of research or one of the finest minds on earth.

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Or, alternately, you could be trying to defend some sort of a perceived moral high ground with tedious passive aggression and heavy handed sarcasm rather than any actual reasoning. Yep, thats it....

You've supplied naught but anecdote and bile. Theres actually very little to reason with in between.

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

. Why am I bothering.....

A mixture of narcissim, arrogance, anger and some rough experiences with Polish people I'd imagine.

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Oh thats good, I thought you were going to start quoting the CSO, who still think there are only 68,000 Poles in the country. lol......

Another well bites the dust.

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Gah. Enough. This circle jerk is a waste of time.

As you are the chief Jerker here, I'd have to defer to you on that at least.

They're leaving :/

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