CCTV cameras that can predict potential crimes in advace to be rolled out in the UK.

Mark200 · 29-11-2008 11:15AM

Terry wrote: »

Listen, if they start taking liberties like telling us when to go to bed, then we'll have a revolution. Until that happens, you all need to relax.

You'd think that. But Hitler slowly took away peoples liberties and no one stopped him until he started invading other countries.

I don't think that's what's going to happen, but it's an extreme example of what could happen.

All the Government have to say is "it's to stop terrorism" and they can slowly get away with pretty much anything.

I've absolutely nothing to hide. But that doesn't mean I'd be ok with Government officials reading my msn conversations, listening in on my telephone calls, reading my e-mail and knowing where exactly I am at any second.

Just because I don't break the law and just because I have nothing to hide, doesn't mean I don't want/deserve privacy.

In the video that I linked to, people are arrested and given a criminal record for nothing more than peaceful protesting.....under the terrorist act.

seanybiker · 29-11-2008 11:19AM

Raze_them_all wrote: »

Keeping my hands up didn't help last sat as seen by my execution on youtube lol

ha ha deadly. Send us on the link and I have a looksy

Terry · 29-11-2008 11:43AM

hot2def wrote: »

no, as long as you aren't breaking the law *or* find that measures like these diminish your privacy and/or quality of life.

How do security measures diminish your quality of life?

Mark200 wrote: »

You'd think that. But Hitler slowly took away peoples liberties and no one stopped him until he started invading other countries.

I don't think that's what's going to happen, but it's an extreme example of what could happen.

All the Government have to say is "it's to stop terrorism" and they can slowly get away with pretty much anything.

I've absolutely nothing to hide. But that doesn't mean I'd be ok with Government officials reading my msn conversations, listening in on my telephone calls, reading my e-mail and knowing where exactly I am at any second.

Just because I don't break the law and just because I have nothing to hide, doesn't mean I don't want/deserve privacy.

In the video that I linked to, people are arrested and given a criminal record for nothing more than peaceful protesting.....under the terrorist act.

Godwin.

Mark200 · 29-11-2008 11:46AM

Terry wrote: »

Godwin.

I made more than one point in that post. So intelligent reply...... :rolleyes:

Capt'n Midnight · 29-11-2008 12:38PM

Dinter wrote: »

When the Government place cctv cameras in my house then I'll worry about my right to privacy.

Infrared , Thermal Imaging , Terahertz and hijacking of phones and webcams

ejmaztec · 29-11-2008 02:16PM

I wonder how long it would take them to predict that someone's about to un-bolt a CCTV camera from its bracket.

Rowley Birkin QC · 29-11-2008 02:30PM

R_t_d_H you really, really need to get a new hobby, a goldfish, or a hooker or something.

Is all this craic that you post on here part of your job or are you really that worried about all these schemes that are never going to happen?

CCTV cameras that predict the future??! In the midst of Stephen the Recession? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

ejmaztec · 29-11-2008 02:36PM

bigkev49 wrote: »

R_t_d_H you really, really need to get a new hobby, a goldfish, or a hooker or something.

Is all this craic that you post on here part of your job or are you really that worried about all these schemes that are never going to happen?

CCTV cameras that predict the future??! In the midst of Stephen the Recession? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

The goldfish have all been fitted with surveillance equipment and are working for the government. If you have one - flush it down the jacks - don't get caught with your trousers down. :eek:

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 29-11-2008 02:41PM

Terry wrote: »

Careful now.

As for cameras, I've said it before and I'll keep saying it. If you are not breaking the law, you have absolutely nothing to worry about.

What if your perving, like you know... Just throwing your eyes on lots of cleaverage and arses etc etc, only reason I go shopping to tell you the truth. Arses... nom nom nom... :P

So some people in scotland yard think that minority report is doable?

Predicting crime? Balls to that.

doonothing · 29-11-2008 03:24PM

Haha oh wow. Wont the criminals just stop loitering and moving slow?
It'll be effective for a whoooole day.

Terry · 29-11-2008 03:26PM

Mark200 wrote: »

I made more than one point in that post. So intelligent reply...... :rolleyes:

Right, so the government are reading your e-mails and your MSN conversations and what not.
Do you have any actual proof of this, or did you just imagine that they are doing it?

Braylee Careful Sloth wrote: »

What if your perving, like you know... Just throwing your eyes on lots of cleaverage and arses etc etc, only reason I go shopping to tell you the truth. Arses... nom nom nom... :P

So some people in scotland yard think that minority report is doable?

Predicting crime? Balls to that.

Indeed.
I believe the cameras are made through a joint venture between tynacorp and cyberdine.

Run_to_da_hills · 29-11-2008 03:33PM

Terry wrote: »

And the problem with keeping track of reckless drivers is?.

The problem is defining recless.

You have thousands of automated ANPR and Gatso cameras spitting out summonses in the UK. New laws being drafted in to ban drivers after just two speeding offenses if they reach 20MPH over the limit. (This is not much on a motorway). This is just one example of the way things are going.

Terry wrote: »

They already share information on football hooligans. Do you have a problem with that too?.

I don't but when the whole country has to loose civil liberties over a couple of football hooligans I do see a problem.

Terry wrote: »

Listen, if they start taking liberties like telling us when to go to bed, then we'll have a revolution. Until that happens, you all need to relax.

It may be too late by then.

I gave the boiling frog example in another forum and Ill give it again. The boiling frog story states that a frog can be boiled alive if the water is heated slowly enough — it is said that if a frog is placed in boiling water, it will jump out, but if it is placed in cold water that is slowly heated, it will never jump out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog

Mark200 · 29-11-2008 03:40PM

Terry wrote: »

Right, so the government are reading your e-mails and your MSN conversations and what not.

How did you reach that conclusion...?

You said that you don't care what kind of information the government gathers about you.

Would you be completely comfortable with them reading your msn conversations, your e-mails and so on?

Kintarō Hattori · 29-11-2008 03:50PM

I can't believe I've read three pages of this. Really, as Terry and others have said, unless real liberties with your personal information/freedom are being taken then there really isn't anything to worry about.

CCTV is great most of the time, it's a deterrant folks and one that is proven to work. Worry about something that really matters.

Mark200 · 29-11-2008 03:53PM

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

I can't believe I've read three pages of this. Really, as Terry and others have said, unless real liberties with your personal information/freedom are being taken then there really isn't anything to worry about.

CCTV is great most of the time, it's a deterrant folks and one that is proven to work. Worry about something that really matters.

Well what do you see as freedom?

Is the right to protest not a freedom?

The freedom of speech?

The right to remain innocent until proven guilty? - The UK has continuously extended the amount of time a "terrorist" can be held in custody without charge.

You should really check out the documentary I linked to earlier in the thread.

Terry · 29-11-2008 03:58PM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

The problem is defining recless.

Umm. The law already has a definition of reckless. Many of them infact.
So if you don't obey these laws, then you are driving recklessly.

You have thousands of automated ANPR and Gatso cameras spitting out summonses in the UK. New laws being drafted in to ban drivers after just two speeding offenses if they reach 20MPH over the limit. (This is not much on a motorway). This is just one example of the way things are going.

I have a solution to this one.
It's a bit radical, but bare with me on this.
Are you ready?

Don't go over the speed limit.

Now I know your souped up micra can do a gazillion miles an hour, but the limits are there for both your safety and the safety of others.
I know you would like to pretend that you are Lewis Hamilton, but you really are not that good of a driver and the road you are on is not the Nürburgring.

So if you don't break the limit, then you have nothing to worry about.

This goes back to my earlier point of not breaking the law.
Have you copped that yet?

Don't break the law and the cops won't hassle you. It really is that simple.

I don't but when the whole country has to loose civil liberties over a couple of football hooligans I do see a problem.
It may be too late by then.

how are people losing civil liberties over a few football hooligans?
Really, I would like a thourough explanation as to how an entire country is losing their civil liberties because of a couple of football hooligans.

I gave the boiling frog example in another forum and Ill give it again. The boiling frog story states that a frog can be boiled alive if the water is heated slowly enough — it is said that if a frog is placed in boiling water, it will jump out, but if it is placed in cold water that is slowly heated, it will never jump out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog

So you are equating humans to frogs now?

Mark200 wrote: »

How did you reach that conclusion...?

You wrote:

I've absolutely nothing to hide. But that doesn't mean I'd be ok with Government officials reading my msn conversations, listening in on my telephone calls, reading my e-mail and knowing where exactly I am at any second.

Or are you just a bit full of yourself?
How many people use MSN for conversations.
Now, how many of those conversations are monitored?
How many people would it take to monitor every single conversation on the net?

You said that you don't care what kind of information the government gathers about you.

I don't.
I have absolutely nothing to hide.
Ok, I look at porn on the net, but it's not kiddie porn, so I don't think they'll be kicking my door down any time soon.

Would you be completely comfortable with them reading your msn conversations, your e-mails and so on?

Yes, as they are willing to sit through what are usually dull conversations with my friend across the road.
As for the e-mail, they're usually just reported posts from here or the usual viral of the day.

Are you planning assassinations via e-mail?
People have been caught out that way before.

Terry · 29-11-2008 04:03PM

Mark200 wrote: »

Well what do you see as freedom?

Is the right to protest not a freedom?

The freedom of speech?

The right to remain innocent until proven guilty? - The UK has continuously extended the amount of time a "terrorist" can be held in custody without charge.

You should really check out the documentary I linked to earlier in the thread.

Are you basing your life around a video you watched on youtube?

Don't watch S.O.D.'s "kill yourself" video if that's the case.

Kintarō Hattori · 29-11-2008 04:14PM

Mark200 wrote: »

Well what do you see as freedom?

Is the right to protest not a freedom?

The freedom of speech?

The right to remain innocent until proven guilty? - The UK has continuously extended the amount of time a "terrorist" can be held in custody without charge.

You should really check out the documentary I linked to earlier in the thread.

No thanks, I'd rather do other things with my time.

javaboy · 29-11-2008 04:17PM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I gave the boiling frog example in another forum and Ill give it again. The boiling frog story states that a frog can be boiled alive if the water is heated slowly enough it is said that if a frog is placed in boiling water, it will jump out, but if it is placed in cold water that is slowly heated, it will never jump out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog

Just because you found an analogy that fits the theory you propose, it doesn't mean your theory is correct. If this boiling frog nonsense really applied to humans, then how come you managed to find out they're turning up the heat? Are you immune to the boiling frog effect? When things really start to heat up i.e. Our real freedoms are being affected, we will notice and do something about it.

Besides I thought we'd agreed over on the Conspiracy Theories forum to use boiling a lobster as an example since the boiling frog thing isn't quite true.

javaboy · 29-11-2008 04:19PM

Kintar Hattori wrote: »

No thanks, I'd rather do other things with my time.

You should totally check out the "2 frogs 1 pot" video on Youtube!

Mark200 · 29-11-2008 04:19PM

Terry wrote: »

Are you basing your life around a video you watched on youtube?

So you learnt everything that you know yourself, without the input from any other person or thing in your life? I find that hard to believe...

But just because I learnt how peoples liberties are being taken away from them by watching that documentary somehow implies that I'm basing my life around it?

Riiiiiight

Terry wrote: »

So you are equating humans to frogs now?

Have you never heard of an analogy before?

Terry wrote: »

Or are you just a bit full of yourself?

Nope. Why, are you?

Terry wrote: »

Now, how many of those conversations are monitored?
How many people would it take to monitor every single conversation on the net?

When did I say any are being monitored?

And also, pretty much every single car on a major road in the UK can be monitored.

"How many people would it take to monitor every single conversation car on the net road?"

Well just because the Government have the ability to find out where exactly your car is and what speed it's doing, doesn't mean they hire a person to watch every single car. They use technology to store records.

Whether you would be comfortable with it or not, privacy is a liberty and freedom. So I don't think you, someone who is clearly comfortable with the idea of handing that over to the Government, is in a position to lecture us on how our liberties and freedoms aren't being taken away from us.

Terry · 29-11-2008 04:39PM

Mark200 wrote: »

Terry wrote:

So you are equating humans to frogs now?

Have you never heard of an analogy before?

a⋅nal⋅o⋅gy
/əˈnælədʒi/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [uh-nal-uh-jee] Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -gies.
1. a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based: the analogy between the heart and a pump.

Main Entry: analogy
Part of Speech: noun
Synonyms: agreement, comparison, congruence, correspondence, metaphor, parallel, parallelism, resemblance, similarity

Main Entry: equation
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: equating
Synonyms: comparison, equalization, mathematical statement

I could go on, but I think I've made my point on that one.

Nope. Why, are you?

No, but I don't think any government would be interested in my e-mails or my MSN conversations.

When did I say any are being monitored?

If they are not being monitored, then why even bring up anything about governments monitoring these things? It just doesn't make any sense, unless your plan is to create a bit of fear in people.

And also, pretty much every single car on a major road in the UK can be monitored.

"How many people would it take to monitor every single conversation car on the net road?"

Well just because the Government have the ability to find out where exactly your car is and what speed it's doing, doesn't mean they hire a person to watch every single car. They use technology to store records.

Yes, that technology is used when Assam or Paddy blow up a bus or when John from Norfolk batters his wife and buries her body.
It's not used to monitor Chris and his friends going to work and then going to the pub for a few afterwards.

Whether you would be comfortable with it or not, privacy is a liberty and freedom. So I don't think you, someone who is clearly comfortable with the idea of handing that over to the Government, is in a position to lecture us on how our liberties and freedoms aren't being taken away from us.

Well we should probably get someone in the middle here, because you are clearly on the other side of the fence.

If you are uncomfortable with a few camera watching you while doing your shopping (because let's face it, most of these cameras are in shopping centres and not looking into your house), then you need to relax a bit. Chances are that most of the people on the other side of the camera are stoned and playing WoW. They generally keep the tapes to go through if a crime has been committed.

As for other details, I can fully assure you that the government are not going to clone you, kill you and then replace you with said clone.
Those details will most likely never see the light of day.

Run_to_da_hills · 29-11-2008 04:45PM

Terry wrote: »

Umm. The law already has a definition of reckless. Many of them in fact. So if you don't obey these laws, then you are driving recklessly. .

And in many cases it is up to the law enforcement officer to define reckless. It may be an on the spot traffic offense to one officer and to another officer an act of dangerous driving.

Terry wrote: »

I have a solution to this one.
It's a bit radical, but bare with me on this.
Are you ready?

Don't go over the speed limit.
.

Not as easy is that, Roads are often badly marked and may not have a speed limit clearly displayed, IE someone could be doing 80K in a 60 limit unknowingly that the limit was 60. How many times have you been done?

Terry wrote: »

This goes back to my earlier point of not breaking the law.
Have you copped that yet?

Don't break the law and the cops won't hassle you. It really is that simple.
.

Not true, There are plenty of innocent people driving cars and they get hassle from the cops because of the type of car they drive.

Terry wrote: »

how are people losing civil liberties over a few football hooligans?
.

I will also include ticket touts. Not mentioning names a certain promoter insisted on photo ID with event tickets purchased , The same was required with entering the event, I can see this becoming the norm with league matches in the UK.

Terry wrote: »

Really, I would like a thorough explanation as to how an entire country is losing their civil liberties because of a couple of football hooligans.
.

Yes Eventually with microchipped smart card ID.

Terry wrote: »

So you are equating humans to frogs now?
.

Read the link. The story is generally told in a figurative context,

Mark200 · 29-11-2008 04:51PM

Terry wrote: »

Those details will most likely never see the light of day.

Well see there's the problem. I'd prefer to hear "never" than "most likely never".

Terry · 29-11-2008 05:00PM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

And in many cases it is up to the law enforcement officer to define reckless. It may be an on the spot traffic offense to one officer and to another officer an act of dangerous driving.
Not as easy is that, Roads are often badly marked and may not have a speed limit clearly displayed, IE someone could be doing 80K in a 60 limit unknowingly that the limit was 60. How many times have you been done?

Not true, There are plenty of innocent people driving cars and they get hassle from the cops because of the type of car they drive.
I will also include ticket touts. Not mentioning names a certain promoter insisted on photo ID with event tickets purchased , The same was required with entering the event, I can see this becoming the norm with league matches in the UK.
Yes Eventually with microchipped smart card ID.
Read the link. The story is generally told in a figurative context,

Carrying photo ID is a small price to pay for your safety.
I'd rather carry photo ID and prevent some scumbags attacking me in a stadium than not.

So you show your drivers licence. What's the big deal?*

Chipped ID card?
There you go. I'm really Terry. I'll just go into this stadium now.

Oh, wait. You're expecting this to be some sort of gestappo type thing** where you have to carry papers and stuff to show that you're not a Jew or a Muslim or whoever is the percieved enemy at the time.
Yeah, that's not going to happen. Really, you don't need to worry about that.

*I have no valid form of picture ID and I get by quite well.
**Thread has already been godwinned.

Terry · 29-11-2008 05:00PM

Mark200 wrote: »

Well see there's the problem. I'd prefer to hear "never" than "most likely never".

Ok. They'll never see the light of day.
They're buried in that vault that has the holy grail in it.

Mark200 · 29-11-2008 05:10PM

Terry wrote: »

Ok. They'll never see the light of day.
They're buried in that vault that has the holy grail in it.

Yeah but the fact is that the Government cannot guarantee that they'll never see the light of day. Even if I've never broken a single law. Even if the Government have no interest in what I do and where I do it.

Like the BNP membership list, besides people in certain occupations....they didn't break the law. Yet their personal information is on the internet for anyone in the world to see. Ok, so that information wasn't released by the government...

The UK government has had serious blunders with information over the last year or so. I know we're not in the UK, but still....if they can't be trusted to keep secure a list of people who have applied for the army, or a list of people who have applied for a driving test....why can we trust them with other more sensitive personal information?

The Government should fear the people, the people shouldn't fear the Government.

No, I don't think the UK government have taken away freedoms and liberties to a *worrying* extent yet. It's all nice and good saying "when they do, people will stand up". But when they do, it might be too late. People might have already given them enough power to allow them to take that final step.

Lets face it....one suicide bombing in the UK ever (I think, not 100% sure). That's not including the failed Glasgow bombings. And liberties are being slowly taken away to hunt out terrorists among us. Everyone wants to be safe from terrorism. But it depends on the cost.

Run_to_da_hills · 29-11-2008 05:18PM

Terry wrote: »

Carrying photo ID is a small price to pay for your safety..

Thats what they will tell you, next they will tell you that you will need photo ID to purchase alcohol or enter a pub, purchase a railway ticket, purchase a mobile phone or laptop. "Its all for your safety" and eventually you will be required to carry this ID card 24/7 in Public,:rolleyes:

One of the first things Hitler introduced after the burning of the Reichstag was the roll out of National ID cards.

Terry wrote: »

I'd rather carry photo ID and prevent some scumbags attacking me in a stadium than not.

So you show your drivers licence. What's the big deal?*
.

When im driving, other than that it stays at home.

Terry wrote: »

Chipped ID card?
There you go. I'm really Terry. I'll just go into this stadium now.
.

Not necessarly, there could be several Terrys. :eek:

http://cyberinsecure.com/rfid-smartcard-vulnerability-published-allows-anyone-to-crack-it-in-minutes-using-inexpensive-tools/

Terry wrote: »

Oh, wait. You're expecting this to be some sort of gestappo type thing** where you have to carry papers and stuff to show that you're not a Jew or a Muslim or whoever is the percieved enemy at the time.
Yeah, that's not going to happen. Really, you don't need to worry about that.
*I have no valid form of picture ID and I get by quite well.
**Thread has already been godwinned.

http://www.liberty-page.com/issues/abuseofpower/idcard.jpg

Terry · 29-11-2008 05:28PM

The UK is a much different place to Ireland.

For one, it's a legitimate target for lunatics.

When you see a big ass bomb falling from the sky, with Judy Dench sitting on it and waving a big flowery hat that wouldn't be out of place at royal ascot, and tha bomb lands right on your brothers head, just as he is digging a well so that he can grow some peas, you're going to be pissed off.
So you go to Kabul and get the first flight to the UK and you have every intention of killing as many British people as possible because they just incinerated your brother for no other reason than to placate Dubya.

Of course they need to be more secure.

Mind you, if you're white then you're grand.
A friend was in London not too long after that bus bomb.
He was walking out of a tube station and had a big bag of weed in his pocket.

There was a few cops standing around with dogs and one of the dogs went nuts when my friend walked by.
The cops did nothing because my friend is white and wasn't dressed like a wigger.

If you elect a government that will go to war at the drop of a hat, then you need to worry about you sanity before you worry about your civil liberties.

Mark200 · 29-11-2008 05:30PM

Terry wrote: »

Mind you, if you're white then you're grand.
A friend was in London not too long after that bus bomb.
He was walking out of a tube station and had a big bag of weed in his pocket.

There was a few cops standing around with dogs and one of the dogs went nuts when my friend walked by.
The cops did nothing because my friend is white and wasn't dressed like a wigger.

That's the reason they gave? :rolleyes:

CCTV cameras that can predict potential crimes in advace to be rolled out in the UK.

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