Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Death sentence

13567

Comments

  • #62
    utick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 562 ✭✭✭utick


    Ikky Poo2 wrote: »
    The whole point of 'law' is to base judgements on FACTS and NOT emotions.

    tell that to the judges giving lenient sentances because a criminal gives a sob story about haveing a hard life


  • #63
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,856 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    No, I don't support the death penalty because (a) it is not a deterrent, and (b) the legal system is fallable.

    If it's not a deterrent, then the only reasons to use it is (a) to 'get rid' of unsavoury characters, or (b) to save money on incarcerating them. It does not save money (it works out more expensive because of appeals, etc etc), and I don't think a civilised society should destroy people it does not deem desirable.


  • #64
    Kold
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,778 ✭✭✭✭Kold


    The death sentence is murder committed in the state's name. I'm more scared of the murderous intent of some of the people here than I am of gang warfare. I do however think that it should be a human right to take one's own life.


  • #65
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,190 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    Louise Tart Carrot wrote: »
    This isn't the middle ages, society isn't supposed to "avenge" the baby's deth but punish the baby's killer.
    Havent you read any of my previous post ? I wasnt advocating avenging the babys death but pointing out that revenge is a human feeling that will never be far from people, specially in the parents case .I said in the bulger case the system seemed to favor the people who killed jamie ,and i know his parents would gladly have looked for a more serious type of justice (not giving them new indentitys to live on the other side of the world ) I know i am not alone in feeling this .


  • #66
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    utick wrote: »
    tell that to the judges giving lenient sentances because a criminal gives a sob story about haveing a hard life

    If you want to mention or complain about a specific case, be my guest. I'm just stating the facts, here. You want a justice system based on facts, or you want one based on emotions. Your call.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Advertisement
  • #67
    4zn76tysfajdxp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,944 ✭✭✭✭4zn76tysfajdxp


    latchyco wrote: »
    Havent you read any of my previous post ? I wasnt advocating avenging the babys death but pointing out that revenge is a human feeling that will never be far from people, specially in the parents case .I said in the bulger case the system seemed to favor the people who killed jamie ,and i know his parents would gladly have looked for a more serious type of justice (not giving them new indentitys to live on the other side of the world ) I know i am not alone in feeling this .

    Just because the parents' hypothetical bloodlust is a "human feeling" doesn't mean killing the murderers is right. All I'm saying is capitol punishment is wrong. Just becuase I'm saying that doesn't mean I want to give murderers free lifetime vouchers to the Hilton, I just want them punished in an appropriate way without taking another life.


  • #68
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,119 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    I am against it, it is murder in all but name.
    Killing when it's all you can do to protect yourself is fine in my books. Of course this means that difficult situations arise, as cases will be ambiguous.


  • #69
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,190 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    Louise Tart Carrot wrote: »
    Just because the parents' hypothetical bloodlust is a "human feeling" doesn't mean killing the murderers is right. All I'm saying is capitol punishment is wrong. Just becuase I'm saying that doesn't mean I want to give murderers free lifetime vouchers to the Hilton, I just want them punished in an appropriate way without taking another life.
    Well were both saying the same thing i think and you have the right to reject capital punishment just as somebiody has the right to ask for it . Gve me the choice of capital punishment or knowing that the guilty will be locked up for life as in LIFE, then i think most rational people would settle for Life .


  • #70
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,190 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    Tar.Aldarion wrote: »
    I am against it, it is murder in all but name.
    Killing when it's all you can do to protect yourself is fine in my books. Of course this means that difficult situations arise, as cases will be ambiguous.
    Strangly enough if sombody decides to climb through my bedroom window tonight and i wake up in time , i am going to swing the bat .

    I will worry about any repercussions later ,family comes first !


  • #71
    KnifeWRENCH
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,148 ✭✭✭✭KnifeWRENCH


    Kold wrote: »
    The death sentence is murder committed in the state's name. I'm more scared of the murderous intent of some of the people here than I am of gang warfare. I do however think that it should be a human right to take one's own life.
    Tar.Aldarion wrote: »
    I am against it, it is murder in all but name.
    Killing when it's all you can do to protect yourself is fine in my books. Of course this means that difficult situations arise, as cases will be ambiguous.

    There are always grey areas when it comes to what is murder and what isn't.

    I think killing someone in self-defence is classified as homocide rather than murder, and in that scenario the "killer" shouldn't be prosceuted.
    I agree with suicide not being criminalised, and I am also in favour of abortion and euthenasia, because I don't see any of those as being murder.

    However, I do think that the Death Penalty is murder and I think that murder is wrong (shockingly). So I am against the death penalty for that reason (and also the reason I outlined earlier)


  • Advertisement
  • #72
    Sharpshooter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,859 ✭✭✭✭Sharpshooter


    latchyco wrote: »
    Well were both saying the same thing i think and you have the right to reject capital punishment just as somebiody has the right to ask for it . Gve me the choice of capital punishment or knowing that the guilty will be locked up for life as in LIFE, then i think most rational people would settle for Life .

    Yes , l agree with that .
    Life should mean Life , and not imprisonment for X amount of years and then if you behaved yourself there is a chance of parole or early release.
    Why does it differ in certain countries anyway?


  • #73
    byte
    Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 19,247 Mod ✭✭✭✭byte
    byte


    AFAIK, if somebody enters your bedroom without invitation, you're safe to beat them, as they've invaded your personal space, or something along those lines.


  • #74
    Kold
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,778 ✭✭✭✭Kold


    byte wrote: »
    AFAIK, if somebody enters your bedroom without invitation, you're safe to beat them, as they've invaded your personal space, or something along those lines.

    But after you beat them, they're more likely to say no and then you go down for rape.


  • #75
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,190 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    sharpshooterH wrote: »
    Yes , l agree with that .
    Life should mean Life , and not imprisonment for X amount of years and then if you behaved yourself there is a chance of parole or early release.
    Why does it differ in certain countries anyway?
    It would be so easy for me to say that judges are so out of touch cuz i might be accused of using an ol chestnut like '' ah , blame the out of touch judges '' sceanario but as this thread is about death sentence (baby killers ) let me give you an example of how out of touch some are .There was a recent case in england of a pedophile who on release from prison after serving time for previous sexual assault on children ,he ended up in court on another assault on a child were the judge ( name escapes me ) said the little girl may have led him on cuz wait for it '' she was wearing a short dress with may have enticed him to re offend '' Then to add insult to injury he said '' perhaps the pedo should buy her a little bycicle to make amends '' . Actually from looking at cases over the years I dont think there is much difference between UK AND Ireland were life sentences are more then ,in some case 17 years .


    byte wrote: »
    AFAIK, if somebody enters your bedroom without invitation, you're safe to beat them, as they've invaded your personal space, or something along those lines.
    yes that is correct now.


  • #76
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,190 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    Kold wrote: »
    But after you beat them, they're more likely to say no and then you go down for rape.
    well you might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb .


  • #77
    Sharpshooter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,859 ✭✭✭✭Sharpshooter


    latchyco wrote: »
    It would be so easy for me to say that judges are so out of touch cuz i might be accused of using an ol chestnut like '' ah , blame the out of touch judges '' sceanario but as this thread is about death sentence (baby killers ) let me give you an example of how out of touch some are .There was a recent case in england of a pedophile who on release from prison after serving time for previous sexual assault on children ,he ended up in court on another assault on a child were the judge ( name escapes me ) said the little girl may have led him on cuz wait for it '' she was wearing a short dress with may have enticed him to re offend '' Then to add insult to injury he said '' perhaps the pedo should buy her a little bycicle to make amends '' . Actually from looking at cases over the years I dont think there is much difference between UK AND Ireland were life sentences are more then ,in some case 17 years .

    So in other words we should lock up little girls for dressing like little girls and leave the peado to roam.
    Beats me how a judge can make a statement like that and not be answerable to a higher court.


  • #78
    nyarlothothep
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,184 ✭✭✭nyarlothothep


    The death sentence represents a primal urge for revenge imo. Getting away from it and revenge fantasies against criminals is the way forward. Obviously criminals should be punished, some severely but in a rational way/non reactionary way. Giving into the desire for violence and inflicting pain makes us comparable to tribal chimpanzees.


  • #79
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,190 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    sharpshooterH wrote: »
    So in other words we should lock up little girls for dressing like little girls and leave the peado to roam.
    Beats me how a judge can make a statement like that and not be answerable to a higher court.
    That seemed to be that particular judges slant on it but we have all i am sure seen the same scanario year after year, were a judge will say his hands are tied in giving a more severe sentence in a case a because of the laws handed down .I have lost count .Like that loyalist nutter in NI ,the one who 20 years ago petrol bombed the republican funeral yet was freed to only to try murder again in the NI assembly .Now somewere some judges under the guise of ' political correctness ' allowed this phyco to go out and carry on regardless when he should have being locked away for life .This is just an example , tons more ordinary criminals like that out there every day .


  • #80
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,190 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    nyarlothothep wrote: »
    The death sentence represents a primal urge for revenge imo. Getting away from it and revenge fantasies against criminals is the way forward. Obviously criminals should be punished, some severely but in a rational way/non reactionary way. Giving into the desire for violence and inflicting pain makes us comparable to tribal chimpanzees.
    That has being pointed out many times before and to use my previous early quote below .

    None of us on here has a greater insight into what should or should not be done to these people who commit these horrific crimes .The people who will be nearest to them in prison ie, the gaurds and other prisoners will be the ones who decide if, and what , punishment will be dished out
    .

    This is just a fact of life .


  • #81
    Muff_Daddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 860 ✭✭✭Muff_Daddy


    Two points really:

    Firstly, forget the question of whether it acts as a deterant or not (I'd strongly argue that it would as a matter of fact), in my opinion, if you deliberitly take a life in cold blood, with malice aforethought, you forfeit your own right to life. I don't see the murder of an innocent person as equally despicable as the execution of a murderer. I don't value the life of a murderer as equal to my own, or any other non-murderers. The only rights they should be given is the right to fair trial.

    However, my only hesitation with the re-introduction of capital punishment would be if an innocent person slipped through the net. No matter how far forensic science advances, no system is perfect and there will inevitably be a few people wrongly accused of murder. I don't think I could support capital punishement if even one innocent person was put to death.

    I absolutely agree with the death penalty in theory - if the legal system was foolproof and there was no chance of human error, but I can't agree with it in reality.


  • Advertisement
  • #82
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    No to the death penalty.

    Yes to reforming the prison system to be primarily a means of punishment, rather than rehabilitation, as it's quite clear that doesn't work. Make them work, 12 hours a day, hard, intense labour, if someone is sent to prison they should be made pay for the pleasure, put tax payers money to better use.


  • #83
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Can I just say that its refreshing to see so many good points made from both sides of this current thread!
    Cheers.
    Such shared comments and thoughts as posted here, help me reach a firmer idea as to what should be a morally right and a realistic position I should believe in and support.


  • #84
    KnifeWRENCH
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,148 ✭✭✭✭KnifeWRENCH


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    No to the death penalty.

    Yes to reforming the prison system to be primarily a means of punishment, rather than rehabilitation, as it's quite clear that doesn't work.

    +1 to that.

    And also life should mean life - Why the hell is it called a life sentence if it's not actually for life? The mind boggles...


  • #85
    kraggy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,414 ✭✭✭kraggy


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    No to the death penalty.

    Yes to reforming the prison system to be primarily a means of punishment, rather than rehabilitation, as it's quite clear that doesn't work. Make them work, 12 hours a day, hard, intense labour, if someone is sent to prison they should be made pay for the pleasure, put tax payers money to better use.

    And what could emphasise your point more than the picture on the front of some red-top rag a few months ago of one of the Scissor Sisters in some cell with a MALE inmate, a knife held in gest and a birthday cake.

    What the hell were they doing in the same block let alone the same cell and why were they allowed to have a party. They should be going through a state of punishment, not rehabilitation or, worse still, celebration.

    Sometimes I really feel demoralised living in this country.


  • #86
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Huggles wrote: »
    Yep. In the case of Baby P in the UK, the fcukers should hang.
    Jesus, I just read about that case... :(

    I don't support the death penalty, I wouldn't like the state to have the power to torture people... but Christ. If those three monsters are assaulted every day by fellow inmates for the rest of their sentences, well I won't be losing any sleep.


  • #87
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    Muff_Daddy wrote: »
    Two points really:

    Firstly, forget the question of whether it acts as a deterant or not (I'd strongly argue that it would as a matter of fact), in my opinion.

    Actually let's not forget about the question that's central to the discussion-if you think it would deter crime, prove it?


  • #88
    Four-Too
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 223 ✭✭Four-Too


    Yes, but if the criminal is executed/hanged that means he will not have to suffer for his sins in his next life, for example, even if he murdered.
    Actuallt, Saddam was hanged, that means he will have to suffer less - it does not mean the bastard will escape.


  • #89
    ChocolateSauce
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭ChocolateSauce


    There are any number of reasons the death penalty is wrong. For one, is the fact that it is irreversible, and if it is carried out on an innocent person, a grave and unforgivable injustice will be done.

    But even if a person is guilty it is always a bad thing. It is always about revenge and never about justice. Justice cannot be done by taking someones life. I believe that humans are not qualified to be the judges of who lives or who dies, and while some people do deserve to die, this fact does not give society the right to decide who those people might be. Some crimes are so bad that justice can never be done (genocide, for example), and all we can do is try those responsible and ensure they can never do it again. Killing them would not make things alright.


  • #90
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,190 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    The appeal system seriously needs to be looked at .One of the killers of Gary Newlove (who was kicked to death outside his own home ) Stephen Sorton has succesfully appealed and had two years removed from his 15 years sentence .The irony of this is Sorton had only being out on bail 1 hr for a previous attack on somebody else before his attack on mr newlove .Gary Newloves widow who has alraedy started a campaign for better justice for the victims of crime and murders, such as her husband said '' I just hope and pray that the criminal justice system will stop wasting public money on appeals and think of the victims famlies '' . This will be echoed by many many other family victims who have lost a loved one in similar circumstances .


  • Advertisement
  • #91
    Húrin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,045 ✭✭✭Húrin


    galwayrush wrote: »
    It's proving to be a disaster without it.
    There's no evidence to suggest that this kind of thing would not be happening with it.


Advertisement
Advertisement