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Death sentence

24567

Comments

  • #32
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    I would reject the death penalty. Although I support harsh legislation for those who violate the law. I think that behind the sentence we should have a second chance society. If you violate the law people should serve their time, gain more of an education within the prison system and re-emerge a useful member of society. I think that employers should also be open to having ex-cons work for them. A trusting society is the best society to live in, in my honest view.


  • #33
    camel toe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 217 ✭✭camel toe


    a person like that prick hu killed that little kid snapping its back deserves the wurst bit of violence in the history. some of those medevil tortures from dose horrible historys looked good IMO.


  • #34
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Acacia wrote: »
    No, I'm against the death penalty. Cue shouts of '' you damn liberal, politically-correct , neo-nazi, communist scum!"...

    Side issue: I'd disagree with you about various aspects of the subject matter but you have an absolute right to say you disagree with me and others. That is all our right as law abiding citizens.
    Anyone call you names, you send their bony carcasses to me! :mad:
    I'll deal with them!

    ;)

    (thanks to all for the thoughts so far)


  • #35
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,190 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    Ikky Poo2 wrote: »
    In Ireland, this discussion has NOTHING to do with whether or not it's a deterrent.

    It's whether or not it satisfies the need for revenge.
    But if you are the parent of that child then looking for revenge would, or might be , a normal human reaction and what you want , specially if you feel that justice system favours the criminals as in the bulger case and not the victims .


  • #36
    kleefarr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,739 ✭✭✭kleefarr


    Louise Tart Carrot wrote: »
    Yeah but they'll have to live their lives without their little boy regardless of the punishment. Killing his murderers wont bring him back.


    No, but, them thinking that these fackers are now safe , living in safe houses, using new identities and have everything provided for them courtesy of the tax paying public for the rest of there lives, does not make it any better for them, but for the fackers that did it there's no problem.

    That's the problem with the system today, there is no fear of the law or justice, nobody thinks twice because they know they get put up in a nice prison with mod cons and let out early or protected by the very institution that is supposed to be punishing them. It's a joke. :mad:


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  • #37
    sam34
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,073 ✭✭✭sam34


    tallaght01 wrote: »
    A lot of the people who commit these kind of crimes are mentally ill, and we should defnitely not be killing the mentlly ill.
    QUOTE]

    what?? as a psychiatrist, i absolutely cannot agree with your statement that "a lot of the people who commit these kind of crimes are mentally ill".

    thats simply not true. making rash sweeping statements like that leads to fear and stigmatization of the mentally ill, an already vulnerable and marginalised group of people.

    the proportion of homicides committed by mentally ill people is about 3% of all homicides. given the increasing levels of gang related murders, that figure is likely to be reducing further.

    murders by mentally ill people are high profile and often draw a lot of media attention. these homicides are newsworthy because the media feed on the publics fear of a "madman on the loose" or a "crazed psycho killer" roaming teh streets. this fear resonates within us all, at some level. most people feel distanced somewhat from gangland killings (recent events notwithstanding), but, in theory, any of us could fall prey to a random "lunatic killer".

    generally speaking, mentally ill people who commit homicide will be tried by the criminal justice system but then serve time in the Central Mental Hospital, are are looked after by the psychiatric services, as they should be.

    i'm not sure if you were including people with personality disorders, and more specifically psychopaths, in your definition of mentally ill. while very many people would consider psychopaths who kill to be "mad/sick/crazy/etc", the reality is that they are not considered to have an illness. in fact, they are one of three groups of people specifically excluded from involuntary treatment under the new mental health act (2001). so, while the gut reaction might be to classify these guys as "mentally ill", that is incorrect and does a huge disservice to those that are genuinely mentally ill.


  • #38
    4zn76tysfajdxp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,944 ✭✭✭✭4zn76tysfajdxp


    kleefarr wrote: »
    No, but, them thinking that these fackers are now safe , living in safe houses, using new identities and have everything provided for them courtesy of the tax paying public for the rest of there lives, does not make it any better for them, but for the fackers that did it there's no problem.

    That's the problem with the system today, there is no fear of the law or justice, nobody thinks twice because they know they get put up in a nice prison with mod cons and let out early or protected by the very institution that is supposed to be punishing them. It's a joke. :mad:

    Oh I agree with you. :) I just think killing people or drawn out torturous punishments shouldn't be carried out. A compromise needs to be found and carried out.


  • #39
    Ann22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,006 ✭✭✭Ann22


    Louise Tart Carrot wrote: »
    Yeah but they'll have to live their lives without their little boy regardless of the punishment. Killing his murderers wont bring him back.



    It is when you're a parent yourself. People with children tend to react to everything with heightened emotions, maybe a childless judge should rule on these matters?
    I didn't say they should've been executed! However I do believe they forfeited their freedom. You have a point about heightened emotions though, my son was Jamie's age. I cried for weeks! I remember watching a documentary where a taxi man was saying he stopped the two boys when he noticed the baby's distress. They persuaded him that one of them was his brother and he let them go on their way. The poor man's tried to sleep every night since with the sound of the childs' screams in his ears.


  • #40
    Sharpshooter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,859 ✭✭✭✭Sharpshooter


    The possibility of an innocent person mistakenly being put to death is enough for me to say No to the Death Penalty.
    And don't think it wouldn't happen!


  • #41
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,190 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    I dont think the killers of baby p were mentally ill .Just evil people who should not have being left with a mongral dog, never mind a baby .The mother it seems was of very low inteligence .But whatever excuses you make for that (none imo ) the other two were just pure evil .

    Incidently the guy who kidnapped shannon mathews was attacked twice in prison last week .


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  • #42
    4zn76tysfajdxp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,944 ✭✭✭✭4zn76tysfajdxp


    Ann22 wrote: »
    I didn't say they should've been executed!

    Sorry, I thought that's what you were impyling.
    Ann22 wrote: »
    I do believe they forfeited their freedom.

    Me too.


  • #43
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,190 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    sharpshooterH wrote: »
    The possibility of an innocent person mistakenly being put to death is enough for me to say No to the Death Penalty.
    And don't think it wouldn't happen!
    I agree ,as long as it's byond doubt that the person in question did it .As long as their is doubt then death sentence should be put on hold .


  • #44
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Louise Tart Carrot wrote: »
    ...A compromise needs to be found and carried out.

    I agree on that point. I, myself, is at a loss though regarding what could be used to bring back some form of fear for committing crimes today.
    I'd be interested to hear any genuine usable suggestions. The present one's are being shown to be useless in too many cases.


  • #45
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    camel toe wrote: »
    a person like that prick hu killed that little kid snapping its back deserves the wurst bit of violence in the history. some of those medevil tortures from dose horrible historys looked good IMO.

    This is assuming that rehabilitation in prison fails. I think we should have mercy on these individuals if they have served their time. Punishing these individuals excessively isn't going to make the deceased return.


  • #46
    kleefarr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,739 ✭✭✭kleefarr


    sharpshooterH wrote: »
    The possibility of an innocent person mistakenly being put to death is enough for me to say No to the Death Penalty.
    And don't think it wouldn't happen!

    At the rate detective forensic developments are progressing , that will be less likely and more uncommon with the progress of time. Found guilty beyond doubt, suffer the CORRECT punishment.


  • #47
    Sharpshooter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,859 ✭✭✭✭Sharpshooter


    latchyco wrote: »
    I dont think the killers of baby p were mentally ill .Just evil people who should not have being left with a mongral dog, never mind a baby .The mother it seems was of very low inteligence .But whatever excuses you make for that (none imo ) the other two were just pure evil .

    Incidently the guy who kidnapped shannon mathews was attacked twice in prison last week .

    The shame of it is , had it been a dog and it was reported someone would have been out to remove the animal for it's own safety./what does that say about society.


  • #48
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,190 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    sharpshooterH wrote: »
    The shame of it is , had it been a dog and it was reported someone would have been out to remove the animal for it's own safety./what does that say about society.
    Actually have you noticed the amount of tv show dedicated to animals like RSPCA rescue ? and i am an amimal lover but yeah, it seems sometimes animals are more important in the rescue stakes than human babys .


  • #49
    Jeanious
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 644 ✭✭✭Jeanious


    kleefarr wrote: »
    Found guilty beyond doubt, suffer the CORRECT punishment.

    too right, we have the concept of "beyond reasonable doubt" for a reason. Ya could argue that even now we cant 100% prove a lot of crimes, without having blanket CCTV or somethin, and even then, it still has to be decided on by 12 people who didnt witness the crime, being influenced by 2 guys whose jobs are to sway their opinions one way or another.

    basically what im sayin is theres a chance of an innocent person being convicted of any crime, from road traffic offence to murder. does that mean we should have no faith in the legal system at all?

    Id rather have 100 dead wastes of space and 1 dead innocent, than have those hundred roamin the streets.


    failing that, anyone against bringin in chain gangs? im sure a lifetime (literally) of shovellin sh1t would be a fairly decent deterrant considerin most of the so-called career criminals wont otherwise work a day in their lives.


  • #50
    Ace2007
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,203 ✭✭✭✭Ace2007


    The death sentance was never removed in ireland and can still be used in certain circumstances, thought i doubt it will ever happen....


  • #51
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,190 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    coyle wrote: »
    too right, we have the concept of "beyond reasonable doubt" for a reason. Ya could argue that even now we cant 100% prove a lot of crimes, without having blanket CCTV or somethin, and even then, it still has to be decided on by 12 people who didnt witness the crime, being influenced by 2 guys whose jobs are to sway their opinions one way or another.

    basically what im sayin is theres a chance of an innocent person being convicted of any crime, from road traffic offence to murder. does that mean we should have no faith in the legal system at all?

    Id rather have 100 dead wastes of space and 1 dead innocent, than have those hundred roamin the streets.


    failing that, anyone against bringin in chain gangs? im sure a lifetime (literally) of shovellin sh1t would be a fairly decent deterrant considerin most of the so-called career criminals wont otherwise work a day in their lives.
    For sure , the movie Cool hand luke springs to mind ;)


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  • #52
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Ace2007 wrote: »
    The death sentance was never removed in ireland and can still be used in certain circumstances, thought i doubt it will ever happen....

    Like what?


  • #53
    Jeanious
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 644 ✭✭✭Jeanious


    Jakkass wrote: »
    Like what?

    just treason afaik


  • #54
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    latchyco wrote: »
    But if you are the parent of that child then looking for revenge would, or might be , a normal human reaction and what you want , specially if you feel that justice system favours the criminals as in the bulger case and not the victims .

    Let's stop calling it the Justice system and call it the revenge system.
    The Ministry for Vengence.
    The Revenge Courts.

    The whole point of 'law' is to base judgements on FACTS and NOT emotions.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • #55
    doonothing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,745 ✭✭✭doonothing


    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1990/en/act/pub/0016/sec0001.html#zza16y1990s1


  • #56
    InkSlinger67
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,756 ✭✭✭InkSlinger67


    It doesn't matter to be honest! People who choose this type of lifestyle don't equate the bad things they do to the severity of the punishment. Death would just be a bad break for them but would never deter!


  • #57
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,190 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    Ikky Poo2 wrote: »
    Let's stop calling it the Justice system and call it the revenge system.
    The Ministry for Vengence.
    The Revenge Courts.

    The whole point of 'law' is to base judgements on FACTS and NOT emotions.
    Ah yes you are coming from the point of law , but you and I are not the parents of the baby in question but emotions will always be put before a jury in whatever decision is made .How many times have you seen ' the case has be prejudiced due to this or that being said in the newspapers '.

    Do you understand human emotion ? Do you understand that leaving the mob mentality aside, people, humans are entitled to express the feelings of hate and revenge ? .History tells us this all the time .


  • #58
    4zn76tysfajdxp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,944 ✭✭✭✭4zn76tysfajdxp


    latchyco wrote: »
    Do you understand that leaving the mob mentality aside, people, humans are entitled to express the feelings of hate and revenge ?

    Not when it comes to taking somebody's life. Ever hear of a crime of passion?


  • #59
    KnifeWRENCH
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,148 ✭✭✭✭KnifeWRENCH


    I voted for the 2nd option in the poll.

    I'm mainly against it because I don't think murderes/rapists deserve a quick and relatively painless death. I'd rather see them in prison, for the rest of their lives, living with what they've done until they're dead.


  • #60
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,190 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    Louise Tart Carrot wrote: »
    Not when it comes to taking somebody's life. Ever hear of a crime of passion?
    Of course watched a lot of french films to but isint that a variation of the same except somebody kills out of passion ? Big difference to killing to avenge a babys death and before you ask and emotions aside, i know neither is right by law .


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  • #61
    4zn76tysfajdxp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,944 ✭✭✭✭4zn76tysfajdxp


    latchyco wrote: »
    Of course watched a lot of french films to but isint that a variation of the same except somebody kills out of passion ? Big difference to killing to avenge a babys death and before you ask and emotions aside, i know neither is right by law .

    This isn't the middle ages, society isn't supposed to "avenge" the baby's deth but punish the baby's killer.


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