Death sentence

Biggins

Given the current state of crime, gang killings and lawlessness is it a shame that the death sentence was done away with completely?

There's a few gang scum bags I'd love to instil fear back into if by a miracle, it was re-introduced (some hope!).

Huggles

Biggins wrote: »

Given the current state of crime, gang killings and lawlessness is it a shame that the death sentence was done away with completely?

Yep. In the case of Baby P in the UK, the fcukers should hang.

Quazzie

Huggles wrote: »

Yep. In the case of Baby P in the UK, the fcukers should hang.

Is he anything to P.Diddy. I think I have a Baby P cd somewhere.

Huggles

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

Is he anything to P.Diddy. I think I have a Baby P cd somewhere.

Ho Ho Ho

Victor

Has the death sentence prevented crime in China or the USA?

Ann22

Huggles wrote: »

Yep. In the case of Baby P in the UK, the fcukers should hang.

+1 Death is too good for those who harm the young and defenceless. What a pair of b*stards. The poor little innocent child! The useless social workers who checked on him 60 times should be horse whipped!

kraggy

No, for the same reason that it should be finished with in the States where it's still legal; there's always the chance that an innocent could slip through the system and be wrongly murdered.

tony1kenobi

Victor wrote: »

Has the death sentence prevented crime in China or the USA?

Yes....I never commit my crimes in those countries.

Biggins

Huggles wrote: »

Yep. In the case of Baby P in the UK, the fcukers should hang.

I so agree.
A very sad case. Poor child, may he rest in peace.

Redpunto

There is a certain line that even "everday" criminals would not cross, and when you do you will never reform so there are a hell of alot of people in this world who do not have the right to breath the same air or be nice and warm in a jail that we pay for.

r3nu4l

Ann22 wrote: »

The poor little innocent child! The useless social workers who checked on him 60 times should be horse whipped!

Death is too good for the perpatrators of that crime! I'm no social worker but you can be damned sure their hands were tied. Even the person who reported suspicions was completely ignored! The social workers are not at fault.

Should the death penalty exist?? Short (emotional) answer, Yes, kill them all! Long (rational, reasoned) answer, No, the death penalty serves no purpose and does not act as a deterrent.

galwayrush

It's proving to be a disaster without it.

stovelid

I hope the Baby P parents are brutally battered every day of their sentences, but I still believe that the death penalty is wrong. We can't legislate for capital punishment, based on emotion.

galwayrush

stovelid wrote: »

I hope the Baby P parents are brutally battered every day of their sentences, but I still believe that the death penalty is wrong. We can't legislate for capital punishment, based on emotion.

Yes, a quick death for the bastards in the baby P case is certainly too good for them. A long physically suffering prision sentence would be better.

Quazzie

Brilliant. lets turn this thread into a 'describe a really sick and twisted punishment' thread..


.. or I can just copy and paste the last one!

4zn76tysfajdxp

galwayrush wrote: »

Yes, a quick death for the bastards in the baby P case is certainly too good for them. A long physically suffering prision sentence would be better.

Oh Jesus, is this gonna turn into one of those threads where people chastise the perpetrators of violent crimes by detailing their own violent punishment fantasies? I ask because those posts are retarded and I'm sure Dudess (and it's always Dudess) has better things to do then try to post reasonable responses that leads to a backlash ("liberal pinko bleeding heart") and accusations of being a paedofan over twenty fúcking pages. Please everyone, I beg of you, don't be all "I'd tie him up to a bedpost and make him eat his own toes" for the LOVE OF GOD!!!! It's been done, believe me.

Edit: Beat me to it, Quazzie.

Pride Fighter

Sounds like a Jean Claude Van Damme film.

Latchy

It was done two weeks ago on the baby girl who had her back broken by her scumbag smackhead dad .

Ann22

kraggy wrote: »

No, for the same reason that it should be finished with in the States where it's still legal; there's always the chance that an innocent could slip through the system and be wrongly murdered.

It's unlikely in this modern era to be sentenced to death without steadfast forensic evidence.
Angry though I am at the abusers and murderers of baby P. I don't believe the death penalty is a deterrant in cases like that, people like that are unlikely to restrain their violent outbursts because of a possible death penalty.
Years ago wrongful execution was a regular occurence without the forensic technics of the modern day. Look at the poor unfortunate Timothy Evans who was hanged for the murder of his wife and child in 1950, too late too pardon him when Christie the real culprit was discovered. Not many people around believed Colin Stagg to be innocent of the Wimbledon Common murder either 'til the real killer was discovered due to the marvels of dna.
However If there was a referendum on bringing back the death penalty to Ireland I wouldn't vote. I don't want to be one of those who decides who lives and who dies. I do believe however that a life sentence should mean just that.

Latchy

None of us on here has a greater insight into what should or should not be done to these people who commit these horrific crimes .The people who will be nearest to them in prison ie, the gaurds and other prisoners will be the ones who decide if, and what , punsiment will be dished out .

kleefarr

I remember reading an article last year that showed the exponential increase in unlawful killings as soon as the death penalty was abolished in UK or somewhere. I'll have to try and dig it out.

tallaght01

There's very little politicallt that I'm as opposed to as the death penalty.

Governments should not kill their own citizens.

A lot of the people who commit these kind of crimes are mentally ill, and we should defnitely not be killing the mentlly ill.

It's not deterrent. The death penalty seems to have no effect on crime levels.

Killing people makes us the same as them.

Being in jail for the rest of your days is sufficient punishment for pretty much anything.

Killing doesn't bring back the victims


It seems to me the only reason for the death penalty is to satisfy group revenge urges. That's too primitive to be considered a step forward.

kraggy

Ann22 wrote: »

It's unlikely in this modern era to be sentenced to death without steadfast forensic evidence.
Angry though I am at the abusers and murderers of baby P. I don't believe the death penalty is a deterrant in cases like that, people like that are unlikely to restrain their violent outbursts because of a possible death penalty.
Years ago wrongful execution was a regular occurence without the forensic technics of the modern day. Look at the poor unfortunate Timothy Evans who was hanged for the murder of his wife and child in 1950, too late too pardon him when Christie the real culprit was discovered. Not many people around believed Colin Stagg to be innocent of the Wimbledon Common murder either 'til the real killer was discovered due to the marvels of dna.
However If there was a referendum on bringing back the death penalty to Ireland I wouldn't vote. I don't want to be one of those who decides who lives and who dies. I do believe however that a life sentence should mean just that.

Unlikely but still possible and thus would eventually happen. Same as you though, life should mean life and not 12 years.

Holsten

100% for bringing it back.

The place would be better off with certain scummers dead.

Forget about the deterrant factor, it's just punishment.

Biggins

There are enough threads about how we'd all like to treat evil killers such as poor Baby P (and I agree with most of them).

I would like others thoughts only about if others think the death sentence removal from our statue books, was a mistake. I think in extreme, absolute clear cut cases, it is a loss.
I agree I could be wrong and there are completely justifiable reasons why I would be but I sometimes think all options shouldn't be off the table completely.

Latchy

Is it not amazing that we have and still do sent millions of soldiers to kill, be killed, tortured, or maimed in the name of war but whan it comes down to these cases in civilain life were one or more persons life is up for discussion (after commiting such horrendous suffering and murder) we still twiddle our thumbs .I have said this before and will say so again, if we are not going to execute these people and they are not fit to be living amoung normal people again ,then they are best locked away in an alcatraz type prison .I mean how do you rehablitate Evil ?

Ann22

It's very difficult to make a rational decision about such a controversial subject when the murder of children is involved. For those of us that remember the torture and murder of little James Bulger will know well the feelings his death brought forth in most of us. Those two lads are free as birds now, educated and protected. Children though they were, I don't believe they should be free now to walk the streets. I remember well how it was to be the age they were when they carried out one of the crimes of the century in Liverpool.... I knew what murder was, I knew what right and wrong was, I knew it was wrong to torture and beat a toddler to death. I knew when a child was crying for its' mother that I shouldn't be taking him further away from her to hurt him to entertain myself. How is it justice that these two abominations are living their lives now while poor Denise and Ralph Bulger have to live the rest of their lives without their little boy. Is that justice?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

In Ireland, this discussion has NOTHING to do with whether or not it's a deterrent.

It's whether or not it satisfies the need for revenge.

Acacia

No, I'm against the death penalty. Cue shouts of '' you damn liberal, politically-correct , neo-nazi, communist scum!" and gory descriptions of what those brave AH Defenders of Justice would do to paedos, murders, etc. if they got their hands on them...which is usually more violent and inhumane than the original crime...

*Sigh*

Trojan911

I would fully support the death sentence if it was re introduced back into Ireland.

There are some people in this world that just don't belong here, get rid.

4zn76tysfajdxp

Ann22 wrote: »

while poor Denise and Ralph Bulger have to live the rest of their lives without their little boy. Is that justice?

Yeah but they'll have to live their lives without their little boy regardless of the punishment. Killing his murderers wont bring him back.

Ann22 wrote: »

It's very difficult to make a rational decision about such a controversial subject when the murder of children is involved.

It is when you're a parent yourself. People with children tend to react to everything with heightened emotions, maybe a childless judge should rule on these matters?

philologos

I would reject the death penalty. Although I support harsh legislation for those who violate the law. I think that behind the sentence we should have a second chance society. If you violate the law people should serve their time, gain more of an education within the prison system and re-emerge a useful member of society. I think that employers should also be open to having ex-cons work for them. A trusting society is the best society to live in, in my honest view.

camel toe

a person like that prick hu killed that little kid snapping its back deserves the wurst bit of violence in the history. some of those medevil tortures from dose horrible historys looked good IMO.

Biggins

Acacia wrote: »

No, I'm against the death penalty. Cue shouts of '' you damn liberal, politically-correct , neo-nazi, communist scum!"...

Side issue: I'd disagree with you about various aspects of the subject matter but you have an absolute right to say you disagree with me and others. That is all our right as law abiding citizens.
Anyone call you names, you send their bony carcasses to me! :mad:
I'll deal with them!



(thanks to all for the thoughts so far)

Latchy

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

In Ireland, this discussion has NOTHING to do with whether or not it's a deterrent.

It's whether or not it satisfies the need for revenge.

But if you are the parent of that child then looking for revenge would, or might be , a normal human reaction and what you want , specially if you feel that justice system favours the criminals as in the bulger case and not the victims .

kleefarr

Louise Tart Carrot wrote: »

Yeah but they'll have to live their lives without their little boy regardless of the punishment. Killing his murderers wont bring him back.

No, but, them thinking that these fackers are now safe , living in safe houses, using new identities and have everything provided for them courtesy of the tax paying public for the rest of there lives, does not make it any better for them, but for the fackers that did it there's no problem.

That's the problem with the system today, there is no fear of the law or justice, nobody thinks twice because they know they get put up in a nice prison with mod cons and let out early or protected by the very institution that is supposed to be punishing them. It's a joke. :mad:

sam34

tallaght01 wrote: »

A lot of the people who commit these kind of crimes are mentally ill, and we should defnitely not be killing the mentlly ill.
QUOTE]

what?? as a psychiatrist, i absolutely cannot agree with your statement that "a lot of the people who commit these kind of crimes are mentally ill".

thats simply not true. making rash sweeping statements like that leads to fear and stigmatization of the mentally ill, an already vulnerable and marginalised group of people.

the proportion of homicides committed by mentally ill people is about 3% of all homicides. given the increasing levels of gang related murders, that figure is likely to be reducing further.

murders by mentally ill people are high profile and often draw a lot of media attention. these homicides are newsworthy because the media feed on the publics fear of a "madman on the loose" or a "crazed psycho killer" roaming teh streets. this fear resonates within us all, at some level. most people feel distanced somewhat from gangland killings (recent events notwithstanding), but, in theory, any of us could fall prey to a random "lunatic killer".

generally speaking, mentally ill people who commit homicide will be tried by the criminal justice system but then serve time in the Central Mental Hospital, are are looked after by the psychiatric services, as they should be.

i'm not sure if you were including people with personality disorders, and more specifically psychopaths, in your definition of mentally ill. while very many people would consider psychopaths who kill to be "mad/sick/crazy/etc", the reality is that they are not considered to have an illness. in fact, they are one of three groups of people specifically excluded from involuntary treatment under the new mental health act (2001). so, while the gut reaction might be to classify these guys as "mentally ill", that is incorrect and does a huge disservice to those that are genuinely mentally ill.

4zn76tysfajdxp

kleefarr wrote: »

No, but, them thinking that these fackers are now safe , living in safe houses, using new identities and have everything provided for them courtesy of the tax paying public for the rest of there lives, does not make it any better for them, but for the fackers that did it there's no problem.

That's the problem with the system today, there is no fear of the law or justice, nobody thinks twice because they know they get put up in a nice prison with mod cons and let out early or protected by the very institution that is supposed to be punishing them. It's a joke. :mad:

Oh I agree with you. I just think killing people or drawn out torturous punishments shouldn't be carried out. A compromise needs to be found and carried out.

Ann22

Louise Tart Carrot wrote: »

Yeah but they'll have to live their lives without their little boy regardless of the punishment. Killing his murderers wont bring him back.



It is when you're a parent yourself. People with children tend to react to everything with heightened emotions, maybe a childless judge should rule on these matters?

I didn't say they should've been executed! However I do believe they forfeited their freedom. You have a point about heightened emotions though, my son was Jamie's age. I cried for weeks! I remember watching a documentary where a taxi man was saying he stopped the two boys when he noticed the baby's distress. They persuaded him that one of them was his brother and he let them go on their way. The poor man's tried to sleep every night since with the sound of the childs' screams in his ears.

Sharpshooter

The possibility of an innocent person mistakenly being put to death is enough for me to say No to the Death Penalty.
And don't think it wouldn't happen!

Latchy

I dont think the killers of baby p were mentally ill .Just evil people who should not have being left with a mongral dog, never mind a baby .The mother it seems was of very low inteligence .But whatever excuses you make for that (none imo ) the other two were just pure evil .

Incidently the guy who kidnapped shannon mathews was attacked twice in prison last week .

4zn76tysfajdxp

Ann22 wrote: »

I didn't say they should've been executed!

Sorry, I thought that's what you were impyling.

Ann22 wrote: »

I do believe they forfeited their freedom.

Me too.

Latchy

sharpshooterH wrote: »

The possibility of an innocent person mistakenly being put to death is enough for me to say No to the Death Penalty.
And don't think it wouldn't happen!

I agree ,as long as it's byond doubt that the person in question did it .As long as their is doubt then death sentence should be put on hold .

Biggins

Louise Tart Carrot wrote: »

...A compromise needs to be found and carried out.

I agree on that point. I, myself, is at a loss though regarding what could be used to bring back some form of fear for committing crimes today.
I'd be interested to hear any genuine usable suggestions. The present one's are being shown to be useless in too many cases.

philologos

camel toe wrote: »

a person like that prick hu killed that little kid snapping its back deserves the wurst bit of violence in the history. some of those medevil tortures from dose horrible historys looked good IMO.

This is assuming that rehabilitation in prison fails. I think we should have mercy on these individuals if they have served their time. Punishing these individuals excessively isn't going to make the deceased return.

kleefarr

sharpshooterH wrote: »

The possibility of an innocent person mistakenly being put to death is enough for me to say No to the Death Penalty.
And don't think it wouldn't happen!

At the rate detective forensic developments are progressing , that will be less likely and more uncommon with the progress of time. Found guilty beyond doubt, suffer the CORRECT punishment.

Sharpshooter

latchyco wrote: »

I dont think the killers of baby p were mentally ill .Just evil people who should not have being left with a mongral dog, never mind a baby .The mother it seems was of very low inteligence .But whatever excuses you make for that (none imo ) the other two were just pure evil .

Incidently the guy who kidnapped shannon mathews was attacked twice in prison last week .

The shame of it is , had it been a dog and it was reported someone would have been out to remove the animal for it's own safety./what does that say about society.

Latchy

sharpshooterH wrote: »

The shame of it is , had it been a dog and it was reported someone would have been out to remove the animal for it's own safety./what does that say about society.

Actually have you noticed the amount of tv show dedicated to animals like RSPCA rescue ? and i am an amimal lover but yeah, it seems sometimes animals are more important in the rescue stakes than human babys .

Jeanious

kleefarr wrote: »

Found guilty beyond doubt, suffer the CORRECT punishment.

too right, we have the concept of "beyond reasonable doubt" for a reason. Ya could argue that even now we cant 100% prove a lot of crimes, without having blanket CCTV or somethin, and even then, it still has to be decided on by 12 people who didnt witness the crime, being influenced by 2 guys whose jobs are to sway their opinions one way or another.

basically what im sayin is theres a chance of an innocent person being convicted of any crime, from road traffic offence to murder. does that mean we should have no faith in the legal system at all?

Id rather have 100 dead wastes of space and 1 dead innocent, than have those hundred roamin the streets.


failing that, anyone against bringin in chain gangs? im sure a lifetime (literally) of shovellin sh1t would be a fairly decent deterrant considerin most of the so-called career criminals wont otherwise work a day in their lives.

Ace2007

The death sentance was never removed in ireland and can still be used in certain circumstances, thought i doubt it will ever happen....

Latchy

coyle wrote: »

too right, we have the concept of "beyond reasonable doubt" for a reason. Ya could argue that even now we cant 100% prove a lot of crimes, without having blanket CCTV or somethin, and even then, it still has to be decided on by 12 people who didnt witness the crime, being influenced by 2 guys whose jobs are to sway their opinions one way or another.

basically what im sayin is theres a chance of an innocent person being convicted of any crime, from road traffic offence to murder. does that mean we should have no faith in the legal system at all?

Id rather have 100 dead wastes of space and 1 dead innocent, than have those hundred roamin the streets.


failing that, anyone against bringin in chain gangs? im sure a lifetime (literally) of shovellin sh1t would be a fairly decent deterrant considerin most of the so-called career criminals wont otherwise work a day in their lives.

For sure , the movie Cool hand luke springs to mind