For those who think prostitution in Ireland is A-OK...

hopalong85 · 04-10-2008 02:52AM

SoWatchaWant wrote: »

She won't like that.

wow. pathetic! you'll probably never have sex without paying for it.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 04-10-2008 02:52AM

so you're saying you'd rather some women were forced to unemployment rather than being allowed work the goldmine between their legs? If you want to talk about cirumstances 'forcing' people into prostitution, you can do the same about any job. Starvation and homelessness are pretty serious circumstances.

hopalong85 · 04-10-2008 02:54AM

Mordeth wrote: »

you're posting on an internet forum so I'm going to assume you can read.

sigh.......answer the question dude.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 04-10-2008 02:57AM

hopalong85 banned for personal abuse.

now, when you get back in a weeks time maybe you can see that I did answer the question. Probably not though, considering my answer has been up for quite a while now and you still apparently can't see it.

Kernel · 04-10-2008 02:58AM

Mordeth wrote: »

why is the idea of an old man having sex with a younger woman disgusting? I don't particularly want to see it, but I wouldn't begrudge the old bastard his hole. And if a woman decides that she is willing to perform sex acts with him for a fee, it is no business of yours or mine whoever that woman or man happens to be. They are both adults, they have a right to a private life without your judgemental narrow mindedness.

Prostitution obviously leads to women being abused for profit - given a real choice they would not want to perform sexual acts on a string of repugnant punters. They are essentially being forced into this occupation by the need to get money - usually for addiction problems. There are laws in place in this country to prevent such a vile industry from taking hold and to protect vulnerable women who you would like to see exploited. You seem to be desperately trying to defend prostitution and your initial flippant statement, and yet you know that if a family member of yours ended up in that industry then you would not be happy. :rolleyes:

Perhaps your drug use has a bearing on your attitude to legalising everything?

Mordeth wrote: »

prostitution is not fine because it makes you feel bad? well muffin, maybe some day you will be in a position to enforce your little utopia on us all but until then don't forget to polish your tinfoil hat.

Prostitution does not make me feel bad, I'm emotionally indifferent to it. It makes the women who are working in the industry feel bad. I have a lot more knowledge and experience on the subject than yourself.

The 'muffin' and 'tin-foil hat' things are just immature, but hey, it let's me know that I've made my point.

Kernel · 04-10-2008 03:00AM

Mordeth wrote: »

now, when you get back in a weeks time maybe you can see that I did answer the question. Probably not though, considering my answer has been up for quite a while now and you still apparently can't see it.

Nah, you didn't directly answer the question, but no matter, we know the answer.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 04-10-2008 03:10AM

Kernel wrote: »

Prostitution obviously leads to women being abused for profit - given a real choice they would not want to perform sexual acts on a string of repugnant punters.

dear christ. Every job leads to people being abused for profit, that is the very ****ing definition of a job. People come in and do **** they wouldn't otherwise do on the promise that they get paid for it. This is incredibly basic stuff.

They are essentially being forced into this occupation by the need to get money - usually for addiction problems. There are laws in place in this country to prevent such a vile industry from taking hold and to protect vulnerable women who you would like to see exploited.

well you'll have to forgive me for wanting to give people the chance to live their own lives as they see fit, I guess I'm weird like that.

You seem to be desperately trying to defend prostitution and your initial flippant statement, and yet you know that if a family member of yours ended up in that industry then you would not be happy. :rolleyes:

I wouldn't. Provided they weren't being abused, whatever any member of my family wants to do with their body is entirely up to them. If they were addicted to heroin or crack and were selling their bodies to pay for their addictions, I'd worry more about the drugs than about the sex. So long as she is safe and earning enough money to live her life I'd support her.

Perhaps your drug use has a bearing on your attitude to legalising everything?

nope, just my lack of a desire to control the lives of other people.

Prostitution does not make me feel bad, I'm emotionally indifferent to it. It makes the women who are working in the industry feel bad. I have a lot more knowledge and experience on the subject than yourself.

you have a lot of knowledge about a lot of things I'm sure.

The 'muffin' and 'tin-foil hat' things are just immature, but hey, it let's me know that I've made my point.

that the jews are responsible for all this?

pseudonym1 · 04-10-2008 03:14AM

I dont think insisting somone or anyone would wish a family member to work as a prostitute is of benifit in this case.

As for "work the goldmine between their legs " that ultimately convays that some folk out there have no respect for women.

:mad:

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 04-10-2008 03:16AM

you're right, I don't. I have respect for people*. Women mean as little to me as men do. Sports watching, cheating, farting bastards that they are.

*well, some people,

Kernel · 04-10-2008 03:18AM

Mordeth wrote: »

dear christ. Every job leads to people being abused for profit, that is the very ****ing definition of a job. People come in and do **** they wouldn't otherwise do on the promise that they get paid for it. This is incredibly basic stuff.

Yeah, but my boss never tried to put his cock in me, or suggest that other customers do.... Do you understand the concept of morality?? The difference between a normal job and sexual prostitution? This is incredibly basic stuff. Emotional intelligence, empathy?

Mordeth wrote: »

well you'll have to forgive me for wanting to give people the chance to live their own lives as they see fit, I guess I'm weird like that.

Legislation in relation to prostitution exists to protect vulnerable women from a reprehensible 'career' which no normal person would want to allow their loved ones to take part in. Vulnerable people need protection from the State.

Mordeth wrote: »

I wouldn't. Provided they weren't being abused, whatever any member of my family wants to do with their body is entirely up to them. If they were addicted to heroin or crack and were selling their bodies to pay for their addictions, I'd worry more about the drugs than about the sex. So long as she is safe and earning enough money to live her life I'd support her.

I don't believe you Mordeth. If you are telling the truth then I worry about you.

Mordeth wrote: »

you have a lot of knowledge about a lot of things I'm sure.

I do. I've been around.

Mordeth wrote: »

that the jews are responsible for all this?

Terrible anti-semitism. Where does your hatred for Jewish people stem from? Anyway, I'm away to bed now, night night. X.

Kernel · 04-10-2008 03:20AM

pseudonym1 wrote: »

I dont think insisting somone or anyone would wish a family member to work as a prostitute is of benifit in this case.

It is important, since it demonstrates that prostition is not 'fine'. Hence our discussion loike!

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 04-10-2008 03:22AM

hahahahaha

Vulnerable people need protection from the State.

you're hoping someone from the NWO is going to tap you for membership? Gonna try and take them down from the inside?
bonne chance.

pseudonym1 · 04-10-2008 03:25AM

Kernel wrote: »

Yeah, but my boss never tried to put his cock in me, or suggest that other customers do.... Do you understand the concept of morality?? The difference between a normal job and sexual prostitution? This is incredibly basic stuff. Emotional intelligence, empathy?

Legislation in relation to prostitution exists to protect vulnerable women from a reprehensible 'career' which no normal person would want to allow their loved ones to take part in. Vulnerable people need protection from the State.

I don't believe you Mordeth. If you are telling the truth then I worry about you.

I do. I've been around.

Terrible anti-semitism. Where does your hatred for Jewish people stem from? Anyway, I'm away to bed now, night night. X.

Kernal = Won

Mordeth= none

IMHO

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 04-10-2008 03:29AM

I honestly cannot express how offended I am at the concept of Kernel beating *anybody* in an argument.

pseudonym1 · 04-10-2008 03:32AM

Everyone has their opinion - gracefull admition yours was a bit of a farce I'd say

dotsman · 04-10-2008 03:39AM

Kernel wrote: »

So all the Hep/HIV smackhead junkie prostitutes would go and seek gainful employment under such a system? Who would pay for the health checks and who would carry them out? Taxpayers money from the HSE???

Apologies for taking so long to reply. Was in the pub. While I was away, it seems that this thread has spiralled downwards. Anyway, to answer your questions -

the health checks would be paid for as part of the prostitutes licence fee. The taxes derived from this industry would be used as all other income tax is used.
Nobody intentionally sleeps with a prostitute with STI/STDs. So, given the choice between a prostitute who you know is clean and legal, and a prostitute who is not legal (and therefore either infected or a slave or both), I would like to think it would be a no-brainer as to who gets the business.

Again, the feminists seem to have ignored one of the points of my thread, and that there is a lot of men who work in prostitution as well (how come you don't sympathise with them?)

As for the whole "what if it someone you know blah blah blah" (there's also the other one about "no child dreams of becoming a prostitute"). Guess what, there's a lot of jobs out there that people don't aspire to. If we lived in a country that regularly got involved in war (ie the US etc) I would like someone I care to be a soldier, but guess what? If they become a soldier, they become a soldier. There's lots of jobs that are dangerous or unappealing. Personally, I rather work as a prostitue (in a legal, safe environment) than work in sewage!

The fact that there are a lot of prostitutes who currently work the profession, despite not starving/feeding a drug habit, means that it's not so bad for some people. Some people don't mind the idea of sleeping with 1 or 2 clients a week and charging a grand a night tax free.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 04-10-2008 03:41AM

what exactly was farcical about it?
Accepting that people have the right to make money selling their most basic commodity, themselves?
Wanting people who choose this profession to have the same protections and security that the rest of us enjoy, without having to be afraid of harassment from the government or police or the gangland environment prohibition breeds?
A willingness to accept that other people have the right to choose the path of their own lives and my opinion is just that, *my* opinion, worth only as much to them as they decide.

pseudonym1 · 04-10-2008 04:04AM

dotsman wrote: »

Apologies for taking so long to reply. Was in the pub. While I was away, it seems that this thread has spiralled downwards. Anyway, to answer your questions -
the health checks would be paid for as part of the prostitutes licence fee. The taxes derived from this industry would be used as all other income tax is used.

Nobody intentionally sleeps with a prostitute with STI/STDs. So, given the choice between a prostitute who you know is clean and legal, and a prostitute who is not legal (and therefore either infected or a slave or both), I would like to think it would be a no-brainer as to who gets the business.

Again, the feminists seem to have ignored one of the points of my thread, and that there is a lot of men who work in prostitution as well (how come you don't sympathise with them?)

As for the whole "what if it someone you know blah blah blah" (there's also the other one about "no child dreams of becoming a prostitute"). Guess what, there's a lot of jobs out there that people don't aspire to. If we lived in a country that regularly got involved in war (ie the US etc) I would like someone I care to be a soldier, but guess what? If they become a soldier, they become a soldier. There's lots of jobs that are dangerous or unappealing. Personally, I rather work as a prostitue (in a legal, safe environment) than work in sewage!

The fact that there are a lot of prostitutes who currently work the profession, despite not starving/feeding a drug habit, means that it's not so bad for some people. Some people don't mind the idea of sleeping with 1 or 2 clients a week and charging a grand a night tax free.

cant do multi quote thing - do you really think any hope in hell that such would be implemented in this country??

I was going to lower the tone by saying the blokes enjoy it!!

Lots of folk work in crap jobs they dont aspire to- true- point OP was putting forth is that for the majority harrowing circumstances lead people to prostitution. truth of matter is hard to get away from that lifestyle. Drugs are an integrated part of prostitution as are the scum bags that threaten and beat the women and MEN up if not performaning. As for choosing to sleep with 1 or 2 clients a week for a grand? where did ya get that notion !?

Dr Bolouswki · 04-10-2008 04:20AM

I was in Amsterdam recently and debated this whole thing with myself, obviously being one of those "sad bastards" "pervs" "disgusting old men" and other convienient labels; who happens to WOW, be single for a while and not get laid a whole lot outside of relationships

After thinking about it, I decided not to score a hooker - predominatly because I figured the chances were moderately high that yes, the chicks probably weren't really delighted about being hookers and chances are I might've been contributing to someones unhappiness or indeed, to the pockets of people who were potentially coercing them.

This was jsut my personal morality (I use the term without religious connotations) - I would rather not risk messing people around if I can. However, I fully understand that this is just MY view - it's only right for me, and in other circumstances for other people I fully understand them doing what they like in a consensual situation

So when I got back I mentioned this to a girl friend - and she thought I was mad that I TOTALLY should have done it. Her rational being that many many chicks would work at it for a short while jsut for laughs and to make POTS of money. She claimed this attitude was pretty prevalent amongst her female friends and that even two of them had even done it for money (biatch wouldn't tell me who though!

)

I donlt know any real hookers - but I'd guess long term it would make you kind of cynical and emotionally detached. But sure **** it - so does working in a call center.

As for the sister/mother 12 year old's argument - to be honest, if they were confident about what they were doing, safe at all times, enjoying themselves and making alot of money - I'd be slightly concerned about their long term emotional wellbeing but would be tentatively supportive in the short term ( I think its a poor "career")

I reckon if there was a "Fairtrade" brothel with garunteed happy hookers we were in it for kicks and cash and weren't being coerced or messed up on drugs or whatever - well, I'd buy that for a dollar.

You kids shouldn't point the finger so much. Not everybody has to think and act the same as you.

dotsman · 04-10-2008 04:31AM

pseudonym1 wrote: »

cant do multi quote thing - do you really think any hope in hell that such would be implemented in this country??

Possibly, but that's for another argument!

pseudonym1 wrote: »

I was going to lower the tone by saying the blokes enjoy it!!

I imagine they do, as much as the girls.

pseudonym1 wrote: »

Lots of folk work in crap jobs they dont aspire to- true- point OP was putting forth is that for the majority harrowing circumstances lead people to prostitution. truth of matter is hard to get away from that lifestyle. Drugs are an integrated part of prostitution as are the scum bags that threaten and beat the women and MEN up if not performaning.

But by decriminalising it you remove all that crap from it. There would be no pimps if it was perfectly legit.

pseudonym1 wrote: »

As for choosing to sleep with 1 or 2 clients a week for a grand? where did ya get that notion !?

Try google. Not gonna link 'cos I'd imagine it ain't allowed (the kids might see, you know!)

pseudonym1 · 04-10-2008 04:32AM

Mordeth wrote: »

what exactly was farcical about it?
Accepting that people have the right to make money selling their most basic commodity, themselves?
Wanting people who choose this profession to have the same protections and security that the rest of us enjoy, without having to be afraid of harassment from the government or police or the gangland environment prohibition breeds?
A willingness to accept that other people have the right to choose the path of their own lives and my opinion is just that, *my* opinion, worth only as much to them as they decide.

Farcical might be a lottle extreme in fairness - Presonally-s have sold my soul in previous positions held.
I do not believe you would want your mother or sister working as a hooker - thats all. But sure for all I know maybe they already are.

If that is your opinion I will have to accept and try to respect that some people think feel that way.

Think you plus couple of previous posters are just romantics!!

m@cc@ · 04-10-2008 09:35PM

Kernel wrote: »

Still dodging the question with simple pedantry. Would you have no problem with your mother/sister/daughter blowing 80 year old pervs in brothels all day long then?

That's a pretty redundant question. The real question would be would you be happy whether prostitution was legal or not.

Macha · 04-10-2008 09:50PM

For the person who asked, I don't exactly get a warm fuzzy feeling in my tummy when I think about prostitution but legalising it is a million miles better than the current situation. But trafficking and exploitation still happen in Amsterdam so I don't see legalisation as the ultimate cure by itself.

IMO, most prostitution is the result of poverty (particularly among women) and some people's warped ability to view another human being as a product. Then again, there will always be a few women who are perfectly normal, balanced and happy to work as prostitutes, even when offered other opportunities.

m@cc@ · 04-10-2008 09:57PM

taconnol wrote: »

For the person who asked, I don't exactly get a warm fuzzy feeling in my tummy when I think about prostitution but legalising it is a million miles better than the current situation.

IMO, most prostitution is the result of poverty (particularly among women) and some people's warped ability to view another human being as a product. Then again, there will always be a few women who are perfectly normal, balanced and happy to work as prostitutes, even when offered other opportunities.

Well I'm living in the Netherlands at the mo, and in Amsterdam obviously it's legal. And from what I can see, legalisation works. If you want to find them, you can but they're not walking round the streets at night with the a***s cut out of their skirts. There's even an estate agent that rents the windows.
Working from a house has got to be better than jumping into a car with God knows who.

Kold · 04-10-2008 10:00PM

“A total degradation of her body and mind, brutal, sordid perversion.”

Raging f*cking horn if I'm honest.

Lockstep · 05-10-2008 01:05AM

pseudonym1 wrote: »

Kernal = Won

Mordeth= none

IMHO

I disagree.

Mordeth= Won
Kernal= none.

IMHO;)

pseudonym1 · 05-10-2008 01:20AM

Leagalising prostitution and drugs isn't a bad idea and would clean up a lot of the current social problems both present- as well as revenue for the state as apposed to scum lords. But considering this is Ireland and our liberal stance... mmmm dont think it will happen anytime soon.

[

quote=kickoutthejams;57472981]I disagree.

Mordeth= Won
Kernal= none.

IMHO;)[/quote]

Aggree to disaggree on that

rossie1977 · 05-10-2008 02:26AM

if you give it away free its legal
if you charge for it you break the law

Dave! · 05-10-2008 08:25AM

There's alot of silly sh*te being talked by Kernel here...

Kernel, would you be happy with your sister/mother/niece/grandmother being the military, dodging bullets all day? Sewage worker? Bin... person? Lion tamer? Of course not. SO LET'S MAKE THEM ILLEGAL!!!

And of course people are "forced" to do things they don't want to because of money. You think I'd be working in retail if I didn't need money? Dealing with gobsh*tes all day? That's how a job works... You get money for carrying out tasks. They're usually not pleasant. And your choice of job is limited depending on your skill-set.

Watch Louis Theroux's documentary on prostitutes. He goes over to (I believe) Nevada, where you can get a permit for a brothel, and spends a few weeks there talking to and getting to know the hoors. They get regular STI checks, use protection, and have security there whilst they don't on the street. Most of them are happy enough in their job. Some have other aspirations and are waiting for something better to come along, some are saving up cash for whatever, others are in it for the long-term. What's wrong with that exactly, other than it makes you feel icky?

Also -- do you think there's any chance whatsoever that prostitution could be eradicated completely? "The world's oldest profession"? Are you content with just leaving the hookers on the street and burying your head in the sand?

Macha · 05-10-2008 10:55AM

Dave! wrote: »

Also -- do you think there's any chance whatsoever that prostitution could be eradicated completely? "The world's oldest profession"? Are you content with just leaving the hookers on the street and burying your head in the sand?

I agree with most of your post but just have to take you up on the "world's oldest profession" comment. I really hate when this phrase is bandied around to justify the existence of prostitution. Hunting & gathering are the world's oldest professions, if you really want to be honest about it.

It also stops people from looking at the causes of the prostitution trade, both clients and prostitutes, by claiming that the whole thing is perfectly natural. Sure, as I said before, there may always be a certain amount of prostitution but there are socio-economic and cultural factors that influence the size and nature of the trade.

For those who think prostitution in Ireland is A-OK...

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