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Next Generation Broadband Forum

124

Comments

  • #92
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Punting a large scale FTTH contract out is simply not feasible.

    Staging/Phasing a rollout and tickling the market into life is conceivable.

    This is Ireland , sadly:(


  • #93
    nohopengn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 95 ✭✭nohopengn


    I agree, unfortunately FTTH is not a realistic proposition. There are however other technologies that can be combined to deliver 100Mbps+ capacities to homes over the next 2-3 years. Available technogolgies are not the problem - the problem is we don't have anybody in power who is really serious about improving things (maybe Eamon is...???). We need a 'crack team' to be setup and focus on delivering solutions. Solutions, not reports or recommendations. And I don't mean a 'team' of civil servants or Eircom engineers.

    One of the worrying things I heard at the consultation in Dublin Castle was some of the cable/telco/regulators agreeing with each other that things have gone well and we are doing alright, because we now have 4 3G operators. That is absolute bull!!!!!

    Check out the recent study on where Ireland is when is comes to Broadband Quality. We don't even reach the standard required for todays broadband.

    http://www.sbs.ox.ac.uk/NR/rdonlyres/EF6BB01E-355B-4F18-9F1B-CA57E20A720A/0/CiscoBroadbandQualityrelease.pdf



    Lastly, on a positive note, it was good to see this event being organised. Hopefully some good will come out of it.


  • #94
    richardw001
    Registered Users Posts: 575 ✭✭✭richardw001


    damien.m wrote: »
    There's already too much redundancy. There's what appears to be a private forum on Ammado for the people who were there yesterday to discuss issues and nobody is using it. (I have access) We do not need another forum and people should not have to go to another bloody website and register.

    I think the Department themselves are getting this now, thus a Minister posting here on Broadband and have a gawk at a few threads (from what I've heard). Given there isn't enough resources for the Dept to maintain their website let alone a forum, here is perfect.

    If it turns out a Minister comes along here and interacts from time to time, what best use of his very limited time should be made of it? How do you boil it all down into a few points?

    I agree with you 100% - perhaps I was'nt clear on what I meant - by "boards" (I meant within boards.ie)
    Regarding best use of a Ministers time - I would suggest that perhaps even if there was a weekly posting by the dept. - explaining the position/status of various issues - and at least an excuse if an issue has'nt progressed.
    At the moment we get promises - that are rolled over and rolled over on....
    Things might not change if the progess of Irish Broadband was charted in a public forum like here - however at least theres a record of it ! - I think people tend to perform better when they are answerable in some way in the short term !
    What I would like to see is someone like Minister Ryan comming on board in a public forum like this. If he was to do that - whatever his past failings - I would think that we would have to grant him an amnesty - and try and concentrate on the future ! - at least then there would be more than one side - here in the forum -( i.e. not just us disgruntled consumers :-)

    - Reputable companies use boards.ie for feedback - why not the government.
    In fact they could get rid of all their substandard websites and save us all tax money !


  • #95
    kaizersoze
    Registered Users Posts: 7,042 ✭✭✭kaizersoze


    richardw001 wrote: »
    Reputable companies use boards.ie for feedback - why not the government.
    In fact they could get rid of all their substandard websites and save us all tax money !

    Unfortunately the only thing the government depend on for feedback are general elections.


  • #96
    fergalfrog
    Registered Users Posts: 352 ✭✭fergalfrog


    damien.m wrote: »
    There's already too much redundancy. There's what appears to be a private forum on Ammado for the people who were there yesterday to discuss issues and nobody is using it. (I have access) We do not need another forum and people should not have to go to another bloody website and register.

    I have posted a message on the ammado site asking the Minister where we can go to get updates on how this process is going. It may well be the last post on that site but it's worth a shot. A lot of people invested their time at the forum (many at their own cost) and it would be a shame to see it achieved nothing.


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  • #97
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Put your view in the public domain here and consider it duly submitted !

    If Eamon Ryan is in any way serious about engagement he will task a minion who will copy and paste all the submissions in this thread.

    Surely that is why he posted ??? Is it ??


  • #98
    Zaphod
    Registered Users Posts: 1,733 ✭✭✭Zaphod


    Ireland is not lagging behind in broadband league, says minister

    The Government's target is to have nationwide coverage of broadband by 2010
    By Roisin Burke

    Friday October 03 2008

    Communications Minister Eamon Ryan rejected data showing Ireland at the bottom of the broadband penetration pile, saying it was out of date and not accurate.

    He said that broadband subscription has "exploded", rising 30pc in nine months and more than doubling in a year.

    The minister was responding to the newly released Broadband Performance Index which lists Ireland as not only lagging behind the EU penetration but as ninth worst for other factors, including speed.

    Low broadband penetration here has drawn scathing criticism from leading business figures. However, Mr Ryan said the European index was not current and did not show the soaring rate of usage that wireless technology has driven here in a year.

    "The figures used in this study are mostly from the end of 2007," he said. There has been an increase of more than 200,000 users since then, he claimed.

    In early 2007, there were just 500,000 subscribers, now that figure has doubled, department figures show.

    At the end of 2007, there were 793,000 broadband subscriptions in Ireland, but latest figures show that there are now in excess of one million subscriptions here.

    "Ireland is one of the leading countries in the EU when it comes to wireless and mobile take up -- these are not included in this and in many international comparisons.

    "Figures for competition, which make up one of the most important aspects of the study do not include wireless and mobile access, which is a large proportion -- one third -- of the Irish market," he said.

    Mr Ryan also said that Ireland does "very well" in the measure of people using the internet for important aspects of their life, including e-banking and shopping online.

    The Government's target is to have nationwide coverage of broadband by 2010 and of speeds that will equal or exceed comparable EU regions.

    http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/ireland-is-not-lagging-behind-in-broadband-league-says-minister-1488606.html

    I wonder which 3G "broadband" service does Ryan use when he posts on Boards?


  • #99
    fergalfrog
    Registered Users Posts: 352 ✭✭fergalfrog


    Zaphod wrote: »
    Ireland is one of the leading countries in the EU when it comes to wireless and mobile take up -- these are not included in this and in many international comparisons

    There is a reason for this! I have no broadband here - if I run out and buy an O2 dongle - I take it home and inevitably it does not work (or very poorly) unless I am near a major town or city.

    However I am immediately thrown in with this statistic. There are others in my community who make up this number but a construction worker with little technical experience described it to me as "tis better than dial-up but not much".

    Even he can see this is NOT broadband.

    In my experience this is referred to in other countries as "mobile broadband" or "business on the move" broadband etc.

    Can we stop including this in the defence of our third-world standard of broadband.

    Yes there are issues with the denisty of our population in comparison with other countries and maybe if we all lived in Dublin the take-up rate would look great but it's time we stepped up and no matter what is thrown at us we can say we have world class broadband.


  • #100
    PogMoThoin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,874 ✭✭✭✭PogMoThoin


    Eamon,
    One look at the huge 3 thread tells You that there are loads of unhappy people included in your so called accurate statistics, they are stuck with a long contract and a product that doesn't work. No other countries include these in their statistics, so why do we?


  • #101
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    You can't expect multi-nationals or big Irish businesses to run their companies on Mobile Broadband.

    The government is missing out on a huge potential market by not having proper broadband solutions available for business. Online movie sales, online music streaming services as well as downloads, downloadable games. There are loads of opportunities here for businesses to setup in Ireland which would bring IT jobs to the country and support jobs for these businesses.

    We can't possibly expect all these companies to setup in Dublin or all young people to commute to Dublin every day to these jobs. Wages and costs of running a business are higher in Dublin than elsewhere in the country and you can't expect the vast majority of people in the country to continue commuting into the one city.

    We need to move away from having a huge percentage of jobs in Dublin and the IT industry has a digital product that can be delivered from anywhere as long as there is a good broadband infastructure. Dublin can't handle the number of people going into it and as people lose jobs elsewhere in the countryside with factories closing, new employment has to be brought to these areas. IT also has the potential to allow people to work from home reducing emissions and commuting costs. Jobs being outside Dublin also reduces commuting time and reduces Irelands emissions.

    The government seem to be missing out on all this, maybe it is because they are too old to get it, it would certainly seem like this is part of the barrier. The entertainment industry to about to move to digital downloads and we aren't anywhere near a position to take advantage of it. This is just one example of why we need to solve this problem for businesses.

    The government has failed to move on this for almost a decade now. In fairness to the minister, nobody ever expected him to publically state that we are last. He can't admit that past governments have failed on this publicially since he is in coalition with the people who have made up most of the government for the past decade. That doesn't mean he can't fix the problem though. If he doesn't, he'll just be added to the long list of ministers that failed completely to tackle this issue that is only becoming a bigger and bigger problem for the country.

    Make no mistake though minister, everyone using Mobile Broadband knows it isn't proper broadband and is telling everyone who doesn't have it that it isn't broadband so your statement today is not going to make the issue go away or convince anyone that we are anything but last in Europe when it comes to broadband. It only stops the media making you give an accurate answer to the question, it doesn't stop the people from seeing the issue.


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  • #102
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Sad Really :(

    I ONLY set Ryan ONE test of good faith feeling as I did that his moral compass would wobble overly were I set him 2 tests.

    That test was that he show his good faith to the community here who know what rubbish 3G and Ripwave and Clearwire are by NOT claiming 3G was Broadband and removing all mention of 3G penetration from his departmental propaganda.

    I set him that target on Wed The 1st at the end of this post here when I said:
    "Remove 3g penetration from ALL DCENR BB stats forthwith as a sign of goodwill and intent to do something useful.

    It is an indicator of utter desperation and of systemic market failure in Ireland and is not a proper BB solution at all."

    It took Eamon Ryan precisely 24 Hours to peddle the same lie to the Independent , on thursday the 2nd some time .

    http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/ireland-is-not-lagging-behind-in-broadband-league-says-minister-1488606.html
    "Ireland is one of the leading countries in the EU when it comes to wireless and mobile take up -- these are not included in this and in many international comparisons.


    "Figures for competition, which make up one of the most important aspects of the study do not include wireless and mobile access, which is a large proportion -- one third -- of the Irish market," he said.

    I asked you to remove these figures so that we could have a genuine debate .

    Yet you complain to the Indo that these technologies are excluded from international measures of Broadband penetration ( the standard OECD measure).

    THAT IS PRECISELY BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT BROADBAND :mad: .


    Furthermore you claim that widespread use of Dial Up Substitute technologies in Ireland is a sign of relative success :eek:

    You , Mr Ryan , are a DISGRACE !!!


  • #103
    MunsterCycling
    Registered Users Posts: 4,864 ✭✭✭MunsterCycling


    I feel I must remove my thanks from you Minister as you have showed yourself up in this regard, mobile Internet is NOT Broadband and that is fact. The OECD has shown us the real figures for Broadband penetration in Ireland and not your departments whitewashed figures, please give your senior civil servants a kick in the back side to get them to give you the real figures not the imaginary ones they seem so anxious to push forward.


    MC


  • #104
    fergalfrog
    Registered Users Posts: 352 ✭✭fergalfrog


    fergalfrog wrote: »
    I have posted a message on the ammado site asking the Minister where we can go to get updates on how this process is going.......

    btw I got no reply to this so it would appear we won't hear much until the next press release or the likes.

    You can view Minister Ryans opening speech at the forum at:
    http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=JoBqS0fZE-k

    (comments have not surprisingly been disabled)


  • #105
    clohamon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,757 ✭✭✭clohamon


    Today (7/10/08) is the final date for written submissions on the NGN Consultation document.

    Reply here: NGBconsultation@dcenr.ie

    Warning: the document is 53 pages long.

    And on the OECD figures the document has this to say:

    "However it is widely acknowledged that the broadband penetration rankings used by the OECD are overly simplistic."

    "The OECD have indicated that in future their statistical analysis will include mobile broadband services which may bring Ireland above the OECD average for connectivity per 100 inhabitants"


  • #106
    MunsterCycling
    Registered Users Posts: 4,864 ✭✭✭MunsterCycling


    clohamon wrote: »
    Today (7/10/08) is the final date for written submissions on the NGN Consultation document.

    Reply here: NGBconsultation@dcenr.ie

    Warning: the document is 53 pages long.

    And on the OECD figures the document has this to say:

    "However it is widely acknowledged that the broadband penetration rankings used by the OECD are overly simplistic."

    "The OECD have indicated that in future their statistical analysis will include mobile broadband services which may bring Ireland above the OECD average for connectivity per 100 inhabitants"


    Laughable :mad:


  • #107
    Dellas
    Registered Users Posts: 796 ✭✭✭Dellas


    Residents of Muswell Hill, in London, and Whitchurch, in South Wales, are to be the first to try next generation broadband in the UK.

    Exchanges in both areas are to become pilot sites where the fibre-based broadband will be tested.

    Once they are upgraded, home users should be able to go online at speeds of up to 40 megabits per second (Mbps).

    Up to 15,000 home and business customers in each area will get the chance to take part in the pilot.

    Fast forward

    The operational pilots will run fibre-optic cables to the street cabinets that connect homes and businesses to telephone exchanges.

    A BT spokesman said the two sites were chosen because of their mix of customers and net providers in these areas as well as the make-up of the local communications network and geography.

    "These two areas are perfect for our needs for the pilots," said the spokesman.

    The pilots will begin in summer 2009. Prior to the start of the large scale trials BT's Openreach will run a small trial in early 2009 involving 30 homes connected to the Foxhall exchange in Kesgrave, Suffolk.

    The pilots are being run by BT Openreach which looks after the so-called "first mile" of the communication network that links homes and office buildings to BT's core network.

    The BT spokesman said it was proper to describe the installation of the equipment as a pilot as it would not remove the hardware once the pilot period ended.

    Because of this, said the spokesman, it was not clear which broadband firms would be recruiting people to take part in the trial or the terms and conditions that would govern it.

    Further pilots in new areas will be chosen towards the end of 2009 and the commercial roll out of the service is set to begin in 2010.

    In July 2008, BT said it would spend £1.5bn installing fibre-optic cables to that would bring the high-speed broadband to about 40% of the UK population.

    The pilot will test the technology Openreach has chosen and those taking part will be encouraged to use demanding web-based applications, such as high-definition movies and online gaming, simultaneously to see how the new system copes.

    "We have no clear idea of the applications that are out there that people might need really high speed services for," said the spokesman.

    In a separate trial BT is also running fibre to thousands of new homes being built at a large scale development under construction in Ebbsfleet, Kent. The technology being installed to these homes is expected to deliver speeds of about 100Mbps.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7667761.stm


  • #108
    kleefarr
    Registered Users Posts: 5,743 ✭✭✭kleefarr


    Could we let BT take over the technical side of things and let Eircon do the billing? (Although, I have never had any problem with BT billing.) :D

    Edit: I like the look of that BT Total Broadband that's being advertised.


  • #109
    antoinolachtnai
    Registered Users Posts: 9,771 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    There is a fairly similar trial in the works for south dublin, as I understand it. I don't know how it is advancing.


  • #110
    fergalfrog
    Registered Users Posts: 352 ✭✭fergalfrog


    Lets not forget this thread :)


    From the Department of Communications website it states:

    It is anticipated that a preferred bidder will be selected by November 2008.

    (http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Communications/Communications+Development/National+Broadband+Scheme.htm)


    Well, there are 4 full working days left in November and there has yet to be an update!


  • #111
    fergalfrog
    Registered Users Posts: 352 ✭✭fergalfrog


    3 days left!


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  • #112
    MunsterCycling
    Registered Users Posts: 4,864 ✭✭✭MunsterCycling


    The farce continues:

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1125/broadband.html


  • #113
    barnicles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,910 ✭✭✭barnicles


    I don't believe this.
    I hate you minister ryan.


  • #114
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,039 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    MunsterCycling wrote: »
    The farce continues:

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1125/broadband.html

    :facepalm:

    Seriously though, I honestly can't comprehend how rediculously stupid this actually is. It just seems like a practical joke.


  • #115
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Lets look at some key numbers here .

    The 3 Megathread has been open for a year and a half in this forum . 434k people have read it in that time. Three are no better now than they ever were :(

    OTOH 6.77k persons voted for Eamonn Ryan in Dublin South in 2007 .

    64 Times More People Know that 3 Is Rubbish Than Voted For Eamonn Ryan

    BAN HIM NOW !!!


  • #116
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,455 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    worth remembering that those views are not all seperate people, many people have viewed that thread multiple times


  • #117
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    Cabaal wrote: »
    worth remembering that those views are not all seperate people, many people have viewed that thread multiple times

    Okay so divide by 8 for arguments sake. Then there are the 3 customers that have never viewed that thread like my father or people that aren't members like my brother, both have or had 3 BB and know how useless they are.

    I think the only reason they did this was because they feared the consequences from Europe of subsidising the monopoly to extend their reach.

    Even so its inexcusable. I mean, you could easily point to that thread in the broadband forum and say there are too many unhappy 3 users and there were no other viable contenders for the NBS so it had to be awarded to eircom.

    Fooking joke as usual and further proof they don't take BB seriously.


  • #118
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,039 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    brim4brim wrote: »
    Okay so divide by 8 for arguments sake.

    The amount of people who actually viewed that thread would still be a lot lower. Every time you post it counts as two views. Every time you go from page 1 to page 2 that's another view. Some people have probably viewed that thread in excess of a couple of hundred times. The thread still highlights how stupid this decision is though.


  • #119
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    AlmightyCushion wrote: »
    The amount of people who actually viewed that thread would still be a lot lower. Every time you post it counts as two views. Every time you go from page 1 to page 2 that's another view. Some people have probably viewed that thread in excess of a couple of hundred times. The thread still highlights how stupid this decision is though.

    How about unregistered users that find it via Google?

    Do they even count in the figures:
    http://www.google.ie/search?&rls=en&q=three+broadband&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8


  • #120
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,039 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    brim4brim wrote: »
    How about unregistered users that find it via Google?

    Do they even count in the figures:
    http://www.google.ie/search?&rls=en&q=three+broadband&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
    I believe so.


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  • #121
    MunsterCycling
    Registered Users Posts: 4,864 ✭✭✭MunsterCycling


    The man in question is on Matt Cooper now blabbing about electric cars.... Farce gets bigger!


    MC


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