Next Generation Broadband Forum

damien.m wrote: »

If it turns out a Minister comes along here and interacts from time to time, what best use of his very limited time should be made of it? How do you boil it all down into a few points?

I'll boil his head if I catch him more like

Ryan has been in Comms for over 6 years , 5 in opposition a spokespersoning and over 1 as minister for what he shadowed .

In that time NGN has rolled out in Ireland . Smart Magnet ESB MAN is all NGN . It happened about 4 or 5 years ago, on his watch !

It is not COMING it is fukcing HERE!. The issue is how close it must be pushed by the state towards the average consumer/business/resident and HOW !

BK says 1-2km . He has a point but I fear that the cost would be eyewatering . So that is no from me.

I feel that this much can be done in 3 distinct phases .

1. Where NGN is pushed ( more ESB / Bord Gáis / MAN fibres) to within 30km of every citizen . Cost under €100m and makes carrier grade wireless ubiquitous ( not the inferior 3G or 2G EDGE dialup substitutes )

2. Where NGN is brought to within 1km of each person in the 15 biggest towns in conjuction with sub loop unbundling for deployment of VDSL type technologies. On top of existing phone wire ducts and near TV cable distribution nodes. Cost c. €120m

3. Where NGN is brought to within 3-4km of each person in the rest of the state in conjuction with sub loop unbundling for ADSL2+ type technologies.

VDSL2+ would actually be deployed given technological advances/costs but not guaranteed as in the cities .

As VDSL2+ is hypersensitive to distance it is accepted that many or most rural customers would have ADSL2+ which is more effective at distance over copper.

Cost c. €300m

Total cost c.€500m .

Leave the rest to the market unless GPON is feasible in which case a genuine PPP ( Council/Local Groups) project could apply for GPON installation grants if it could be done for €500 per proposed unit and the homeowner paid at least half . This would be on existing ducting , no major new digs.

The national mapping for stages 2 and 3 can be done cheaply right now so that all ducting that is installed in conjunction with service digging by local authorities can be presented back to the intended nodes as it is done...water sewage or even simple footpath laying No water and sewage schemes should be laid without these ducts starting now. No buildings should be built witthout ducting , talk to Gormley about building planning guidelines now.

All those shiny new motorways come with extensive ducting for example. Empty !

Where this ducting is done then the copper sub loop may in some cases be bypassed by modern GPON or GEPON fibre technologies not crappy Irish copper.

3G LTE would be a mobility /infill technology not a solution and not in Ireland before 2014 anyway for spectral reasons .

I explained clearly why 3 months ago HERE

Ryan keeps quoting crappy 3g coverage as being Broadband indicating either that he hasn't a bloody clue ( at best ) or is lying mendaciously ( at worst) so if he still keeps on lying about that then there is no hope anyway .

Remove 3g penetration from ALL DCENR BB stats forthwith as a sign of goodwill and intent to do something useful.

It is an indicator of utter desperation and of systemic market failure in Ireland and is not a proper BB solution at all.

bk wrote: »

Sponge Bob, excellent post I agree with almost everything you say.

When I say 1 - 2 km of every home, obviously it isn't something that will happen overnight, instead it would happen in stages, almost exactly how you describe, just a few points.

- In point 3, by the time we actually get to the third stage, it is likely that VDSL2 gear will cost the same as ADSL2+ gear (or close enough not to matter), then you might as well go with VDSL2 as it will give high speeds to those who live within the first 1 - 2km and it preforms the same as ADSL2+ over further distances.

3. Where NGN is brought to within 3-4km of each person in the rest of the state in conjuction with sub loop unbundling for ADSL2+ type technologies. Cost c. €250m

change to

3. Where NGN is brought to within 3-4km of each person in the rest of the state in conjuction with sub loop unbundling for ADSL2+ type technologies. VDSL2+ would be deployed given technological advances/costs but as VDSL2+ is hypersensitive to distance it is accepted that many or most rural customers would have ADSL2+ which is more effective at distance over copper.

Cost c. €250m

I am leaving the final mile subloop or wireless solution to the market .

Another thing to consider in rural areas is the use of a lot of pair gains and the general awful condition of a lot of telephone lines will limit the speeds that can be delivered.

Sub loops may not have pairgains and must be presented clean by Subloop LLU regulations sure no copper run will be over 3-4km.

It is likely that 4G wireless will need to play a big part in rural areas and I can only hope that it delivers what it is promising (of course I take a lot of it with pinch of salt until I see it with my own eyes).

well 4g and other wireless has a much better reach and because of the phasing no backhaul beed be over 30km after phase one.

This could potentially lead to some interesting solutions like running fibre along the telephone and electricity poles with pole mounted DSLAMS and wireless. This would significantly reduce the roll out costs.

The wind my son ,the wind. Actually I thought you were older until Ryan outed you

Unfortunately it seems that the only figure that I hear mentioned constantly is the 4 billion to do FTTH for every home in Ireland. Unfortunately it seems that this is the only figure that the government has considered and unsurprisingly have rejected it. It doesn't seem like they have considered any of the cheaper solutions, like the one SB details above and which would be much more achievable and still deliver excellent speeds and a bases of a network that could easily be improved upon in future.

You could add a stage 4 costing €3bn of course

Sponge Bob, if you haven't already, I hope you submit this to the consultation. Sure nothing might come of it, but it is certainly worth a try.

Let him copy and paste it, I doubt if he cares/is listening and the proposal is out there now . For the record I believe he is as visionless as most of his sad predecessors were

All I want him to do to show he is listening is to restate the BB figures MINUS 3g .

I might actually take notice then. For now he is a broken record minister presiding over a muppetatious regulatory environment that is destroying this country

I am not the only proponent of such a solution.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=56347274&postcount=19

Access to the vast amount of Government owned duct, planning for new street cabs, new policies on laying of open access duct to new developments, laying new duct when building roads, railways, water schemes, burying OH cables etc etc etc would all be very welcome and would have an immediate impact on investment in telecoms if done in an open transparent and SIMPLE manner with equal treatment for all.

(Related:)

Communications Minister Eamon Ryan visited Japan last week to examine Japan's growth as a 'ubiquitous networked society' and to identify how Ireland can learn from the Japanese experience. Addressing the annual Ireland-Japan Chamber of Commerce meeting, Minister Ryan explained that the two countries will work together "to build on current collaborations and to identify and facilitate new opportunities across a range of technology solutions to address the many common challenges we both face as successful developed economies."