BJJ Cash grabbing?

Judomad · 18-09-2008 04:58PM

RearNakedJim wrote: »

And where exactly do i find that?

ps the claws are really coming out in this thread.

i find it funny that your reporting a post after you clearly posted to try to wind me up!!! does that mean i report yours too?

RearNakedJim · 18-09-2008 05:01PM

Judomad wrote: »

i find it funny that your reporting a post after you clearly posted to try to wind me up!!! does that mean i report yours too?

Im not reporting any post. I was joking.

I honestly thought it was funny though, sorry if thats offensive.

cowzerp · 18-09-2008 05:06PM

Lads i suggest you all take a step back and look at the thread, there is nothing to get your knickers in a twist about!

get it back on topic-in my opinion judo and BJJ are close cousins that just focus on different areas of the same thing, judo the throws which there excellent at, and BJJ the grappling which there excellent at, i also think there interchangeable, maybe judoka could move over easier, im not sure though..opinions?? sorry tim!

RearNakedJim wrote: »

I honestly thought it was funny though, sorry if thats offensive.

i did too!

mirwillbeback · 18-09-2008 05:08PM

one thing i would like to see in gradings is feedback on why you didnt get it. i remember doing one with Matt Thornton years ago in Blackrock ( i think ) and there were about 30 people rolling - i felt it would have been hard to notice someone in pretty much 3 x 5min rounds approx and we didnt get direct advice on what we were doing wrong.
similarly at the Chris Brennan one, i would have liked some feedback on what i did right and wrong. constructive criticism can be only beneficial for all to learn from mistakes and correct them, and i'd love to know if i was consistently making the same errors.
i do know that from kickboxing that belts can be " bought " from the right people and diminishes the genuine achievments.
i did hear paddy clint bought his : )

john kavanagh · 18-09-2008 05:11PM

mirwillbeback wrote: »

i would have liked some feedback on what i did right and wrong

did you ask?

i'm always amazed at how few people ask me what they did wrong. i'm not going to go chase 20 or so people after a testing but i'm more than willing to answer any questions they might have.

RearNakedJim · 18-09-2008 05:16PM

I can only speak of the SBG BJJ gradings and have mentioned earlier in the thread that i dont think there is a problem with being charged to be judged by someone who has been brought in for the grading. However as Dave Jones said alot of clubs in the states dont have paid gradings ie once your good enough your coach would promote you, much like John Kavanagh does ie Clive and Gunni.
The problem with BJJ promotions in this country for a long time was that we didnt have someone of a high enough level to promote people so all gradings where carried out by people from other countries. As more and more people in this country get to the high levels of BJJ i think that paid gradings will become less common.

Dragan · 18-09-2008 05:23PM

Jesus, there is some mountains being made out of molehills this thread.

Back on topic, i don't want to close it everyone.

Judomad, if you really consider that to be personal abuse then your a softer man than your fight record implies.

Nothingcompares · 18-09-2008 06:00PM

Gradings.

I have a few ideas on gradings. The most important being the grading system for children should be distinct to that for adults. As far as I am concerned, children should not fail gradings. Maybe someone with more knowledge of child psychology than me (like, a clever monkey) could make an argument that failure has a place in the healthy growth of a child but not for me. Basically if a kid goes for a grading they should be promoted, either superficially (like a new tag or something) or legitimately. They shouldn't be taking the test if they're not capable of showing what's needed. A coach should know this.

I watched a judo grading a few years back when a 12 year old was basically intimidated and on the verge of being bullied by the person taking the exam. I asked him about it afterwards when I basically gave him a short assessment of the flaws of the system but it didn't make a difference. He felts standards were there for everybody and if you didn't reach it you didn't reach it and that's tough.

Children should not be failed for gradings.

It's interesting that Muay Thai, Boxing and wrestling get along fine without the grading system. But it's almost impossible to imagine BJJ or Judo without a grading system, it almost seems like a fundamental aspect of the sports. Despite people saying "belts are only for holding your pants up" I've never seen a non-black belt say that.

I've also been at Judo Ireland gradings in which a guy was being tested for blackbelt and he was judged on the quality of his randori, standing and on the ground rather than his successes at competition or at gradings. Having said that, that probably wouldn't be enough brown belts to fight in JI.

As I said earlier in this thread I went to a Matt Thornton grading with the expectation/hoping to be promoted and was not. At the end people in general were given an explanation. I chased him up afterwards and got a more specific response and I couldn't disagree with any of his criticisms. As Roper Oglesby says sometimes you just have to accept the opinion of someone far more experienced than you on this kind of matter.

The problem with grading systems are the concepts of value, standards and consistency. Nobody who has a particular belt wants to see every other tom dick and harry with that belt because it corrodes the value of that belt. Therefore there must be standards imposed for the awarding of the belt. Obviously the problem is the consistency of the standards. It's all well and good saying promotion should be a the discretion of the local brown/black belt when he feels you're rolling at the relevant standard. But what happens when one guy gets his belt apparent arbitrary conditions (clive for example) and other guys have to go to a testing. Of course Clive's blue was well overdue. That's just an example of inconsistency in my opinion.

That's why I think judo has the grading system it has. You can debate whether it's fair or even consistent but it's certainly a more objective look at things. If I want a black belt I have to beat other black belts in the big competitions (~10 over a year or 2 years something like that) or beat 5 other brown belts on the day in a grading (batsugan). There isn't a wise old master looking down giving the thumbs up or the thumbs down.

different answers to the same question in which I say are equally right.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 18-09-2008 06:29PM

Dragan wrote: »

Jesus, there is some mountains being made out of molehills this thread.

Back on topic, i don't want to close it everyone.

Judomad, if you really consider that to be personal abuse then your a softer man than your fight record implies.

In fairness I think a lot of things were said tongue in cheek, I'd be surprised if Gary took anything serious, I'd be surprised if my comments re. a report button was either.

Clive · 19-09-2008 03:16PM

That Clive is one controversial fella!

David Jones · 19-09-2008 03:49PM

similarly at the Chris Brennan one, i would have liked some feedback on what i did right and wrong. constructive criticism can be only beneficial for all to learn from mistakes and correct them, and i'd love to know if i was consistently making the same errors.

Chris is more than approachable in terms of what he is looking for in a blue belt, purple belt etc. One thing you must have before he will even consider you is a good and REGULAR training ethic. If you can hold your own on the mat with other blue belts and not rely on strength whether it be natural or gym built, or strange finger bending techniques and pinching and the like, and also in his opinion hold your own in the USA in any gym as a blue belt then you get it. I think people fail to realise that you are representing the person who gives you the belt no matter where you go. Example Darragh O Conaill got his blue belt last time Chris visited. Darragh spent this summer in the states and was able to hang with chris's blue belts in lake forrest and blue belts in 10th planet in San Francisco and even win a division in a Nogi tournament choking out a Cesar Gracie blue belt. I held off recommending him for a blue belt until last year because initially his game solely relied on athleticism and strength. He now has serious technique and is great to roll with, gone are the neck cranks and head squeezes replaced with excellent knowledge of the fundamentals his own personal game is developing fast.

If it was easy to get a belt, then it wouldnt mean so much when you got it, the flip side of it is, if your sole focus and motivation is the belt it will always be just out of reach.

Martin25 · 20-09-2008 11:55AM

Our JKD programme is performance related ,we have a curriculum so that people can learn the techniques and theories. Then they have to apply them under pressure.
I just tested and promoted a group this week and did not charge them anything and I don't charge for teaching classes.

My teacher Taky Kimura has never charged me for teaching and would only take his travel and accommodation expenses when I brought him from USA to Ireland to teach seminars. He handed back the cash I tried to force him to take!

BJJ Cash grabbing?

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