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BJJ Cash grabbing?

2

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,639 ✭✭✭john kavanagh


    Judomad wrote: »
    in Judo we fought for our grades, not sparred,

    fought/sparred, doesnt make any difference to the point i made about 'winning' not being the only thing that matters. i have a student who won the irish open last year at white belt level in both his weight and absolute division. he's still a white belt because imo he does not have the skill level of a blue belt.
    Judomad wrote: »
    just thought it was unfair to say getting a black belt in judo is easy

    where did i say it was easy?
    Judomad wrote: »
    i had some fights against lads 100-120kgs, not easy for a young light guy to do

    i'm sure it wasnt...but just to completely whip the horse to death let me say again that in a sbg bjj testing if you lost against someone twice your bodyweight that would not matter, it would only matter that you tried to do the right moves at the right time...something a good blackbelt should be able to tell regardless of whether you 'win' or 'lose'.

    i'm a huge judo fan - its the natural 'other half' of bjj. i love watching it in the olympics and when you see guys like andy ryan use skill to effortlessly throw someone its beautiful....but a number of good judo blackbelts have told me that in their opinion the current grading system does not always promote the most skillful player (for the reasons i've laid out). they've told me they've seen big strong guys just 'drag' their opponent to the ground and win contests/points that way.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭JohnMc1


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Aye yeah, I paid for my judo gradings too. Kinda defeats the purpose of earning the belt :\

    The only problem with paying for Judo gradings here is that afterwards you have to run out and buy your own belt.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 966 ✭✭✭RedRaven


    Iknow its not exclusively related to BJJ but its the same topic...have a read...

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=273864


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    My thoughts in judo grading. I think the lower grades of judo are meaningless. For example - there were guys who started off with my who went up to dublin to grade for their orange belt, just so they could progress quicker. All you have to do is demonstrate a few non-alive throws and remember a couple of phrases and a kata.

    For me, I hate having to remember the kata, and the right time to bow, and how to walk onto the mat correctly. All those traditional aspects of judo annoy me. I hate wasting precious time on remembering kata's, when it could be spent learning throws or sparring. that's just me.

    But once you get into the higher belts, you have to fight for your belt. You fight against a similar level belt, who would be no doubt - at a similar skillset. They are earned.

    All in all, judo is a great art. It's functional, gives you a good workout and fun to boot.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭FruitLover


    I've paid for all my belts (around 20-30 euro).

    They're a fiver in the MA shop on Mary St... :p


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭Nothingcompares


    FruitLover wrote: »
    They're a fiver in the MA shop on Mary St... :p

    :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,608 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    2. sparring. and according to you it should not matter what the standard of your opponent is, only that you win. again as explained this is very different to the approach taken in an SBG grading. i have to take into account the difference in physical ability of a 40 something yr old going up against a 22 year old cross fit addict. the belt in bjj is not a representation of their physical fitness, its on their understanding of the art.


    In Judo there are some similarities here in so far as over (I think its) 35 the Judoka has two years to gain the points towards his BB as opposed to those under 35 so that goes some way to level the playing field.

    I'm an ol'lad of 42 :)

    But really, comparing BJJ and Judo is like comparing Rugby with GAA football, sure at the end of the day they're both just a sport and which ever gives most fun/pleasure is the one the player will stick at.

    Judo/BJJ to quote John Kavanagh from the old forum ''different sides of the same coin''.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 241 ✭✭Pingu


    so in judo there's 2 elements

    1. monkey see, monkey do. basically learn off set moves and perform them without resistance. this would have no place in an sbg bjj grading as it has no bearing on whether or not you can do it 'alive'.

    one of ireland's best ever judo players, andy ryan, told me he used to learn all the set moves the day before a grading and promptly forget them the day after.
    There's actually two parts to this, one is the Kata. I just learn it for the grading but chatting to a former national squad coach over the last week while learning Kata he values it for the correct movement, placement and technique - as you can't power through it. Then there's the technique element where you have to be able to demonstrate the correct techniques, albeit on a compliant partner.
    2. sparring. and according to you it should not matter what the standard of your opponent is, only that you win. again as explained this is very different to the approach taken in an SBG grading. i have to take into account the difference in physical ability of a 40 something yr old going up against a 22 year old cross fit addict. the belt in bjj is not a representation of their physical fitness, its on their understanding of the art. a light girl may not be able to 'win' against a big strong guy but a bjj blackbelt should be able to tell who has the blue belt 'game'.
    The competitive element is one of the most important elements in judo as it keeps the drive on in training and as such is an instrumental part of the grading. They try to match the people up at the gradings as evenly as possible. The onus is on club instructors not to send people up that aren't ready or capable.
    i'm not trying to say which is better, i really couldnt care. i'm just trying to be clear as to what is measured in an SBG BJJ grading.

    "By having a syllabus in addition to the competitive side it removes the subjective element of just the instructors opinion, which I would see leading to a more transparent system overall. "

    that is true in some bjj schools....for me i think its a bad thing because

    1. syllabus - monkey see, monkey do
    2. competition - the most skillful guy doesnt always win (especially true in the lower belts), a stronger fitter opponent can beat a more technical opponent based on the ruleset.

    bjj belts, imo, should be based on skill level only - the ability to perform the correct technique at the right time.
    I think that taking the skill level into account is a very good incorporation, it's just it seems it could be open to abuse - Mc Dojo's etc.

    At the end of the day you tend to know what you're getting with the person once you grip up, and that's where it all comes out if they're overgraded or sandbagging.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 695 ✭✭✭judomick


    Mairt wrote: »

    But really, comparing BJJ and Judo is like comparing Rugby with GAA football,
    .
    Mairt wrote: »
    Judo/BJJ to quote John Kavanagh from the old forum ''different sides of the same coin''.


    do you agree with JK's coin analogy if so it seems as though your contradicting your 1st statement?!

    i think anyone who has trained bjj and judo would agree they are very similiar sports/ma's


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 830 ✭✭✭Judomad


    judomick wrote: »
    do you agree with JK's coin analogy if so it seems as though your contradicting your 1st statement?!

    i think anyone who has trained bjj and judo would agree they are very similiar sports/ma's

    similar being the key word, male and females are similar except we have a set of minerals!!!!!!! they aint the same, grading systems are also different!!!!!!!!!!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 695 ✭✭✭judomick


    i never said anything about gradings, im talking about when your on the mat, im talking about the principles of movement, the gracies were taught judo which they refined primarily focusing on ne waza they did not come up with BJJ all by themselves, read any old judo technique book (best judo, and the canon of judo to name 2 popular ones) you will see footlocks, omoplatas, knee on belly, triangles etc etc

    judo in competition has veered a little from its original form due to TV and trying to popularise the sport imo, but anyone who says these are not the quote jk 2 sides of the same coin have not trained in both or are extremist Olympic judo fundamentalists.

    Andy ryan was one irelands top judoka and made a pretty effortless switch into bjj, and countless otherws around the world, why do the british olmpic judo squad have Roger gracie as a coach? all top level BJJ guys train in judo, and judo is starting to catch up
    the differences between a man and a woman are minute im sure someone can recommend some good biology books for you to read!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,448 ✭✭✭Roper


    judomick wrote: »
    the differences between a man and a woman are minute im sure someone can recommend some good biology books for you to read!
    Some differences are more minute than others...


    I'll get me coat.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭Nothingcompares


    LOL at this thread.

    The similarities and differences are all relative. Are Catholicism and Protestantism similar? To the Hindu in India they certainly are, to the Pope they're got a number of distinct differences. Judo and BJJ would be almost indistinguishable to a Karateka who was watching a few classes. I alternate between thinking Judo and BJJ are almost exactly the same and then completely different depending on my mood and how I weight the significance of the differences and similarities. Judo and BJJ are distinctly different but similar anything after that is all relative.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,995 ✭✭✭Tim_Murphy


    LOL at this thread.

    The similarities and differences are all relative. Are Catholicism and Protestantism similar? To the Hindu in India they certainly are, to the Pope they're got a number of distinct differences. Judo and BJJ would be almost indistinguishable to a Karateka who was watching a few classes. I alternate between thinking Judo and BJJ are almost exactly the same and then completely different depending on my mood and how I weight the significance of the differences and similarities. Judo and BJJ are distinctly different but similar anything after that is all relative.

    Good post.

    I'm ok at BJJ, I suck at Judo: ergo they are very different! There, proof for ye. :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 830 ✭✭✭Judomad


    judomick wrote: »
    i never said anything about gradings, im talking about when your on the mat, im talking about the principles of movement, the gracies were taught judo which they refined primarily focusing on ne waza they did not come up with BJJ all by themselves, read any old judo technique book (best judo, and the canon of judo to name 2 popular ones) you will see footlocks, omoplatas, knee on belly, triangles etc etc

    judo in competition has veered a little from its original form due to TV and trying to popularise the sport imo, but anyone who says these are not the quote jk 2 sides of the same coin have not trained in both or are extremist Olympic judo fundamentalists.

    Andy ryan was one irelands top judoka and made a pretty effortless switch into bjj, and countless otherws around the world, why do the british olmpic judo squad have Roger gracie as a coach? all top level BJJ guys train in judo, and judo is starting to catch up
    the differences between a man and a woman are minute im sure someone can recommend some good biology books for you to read!

    funny lil man aint ya!!!!!!!!! i think that is rather attackin me rather than my post and could possibly be an infraction for suggesting i need to read up on biology!!!! ass


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,639 ✭✭✭john kavanagh


    Pingu wrote: »
    There's actually two parts to this

    from a technique/skill perspective there's not. they are both just a test of technique, no skill (timing) required. its certainly nice to have proper technique but if you cant perform it on someone resisting ie knowing when to do what technique then it's pointless.

    Pingu wrote: »
    but chatting to a former national squad coach over the last week while learning Kata he values it for the correct movement, placement and technique

    yep, heard the same thing when i was doing tkd and kempo....you can add in other such words like 'concentration', 'focus' etc
    Pingu wrote: »
    At the end of the day you tend to know what you're getting with the person once you grip up, and that's where it all comes out if they're overgraded or sandbagging.

    100% agree...thats the beauty of combat sports, be it boxing, judo, bjj, mma whatever...once you have a sparring/fighting/competition element to it, it keeps everybody honest :) no where to hide!

    judomad it would seem your '!' key is stuck?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 830 ✭✭✭Judomad


    judomad it would seem your '!' key is stuck?

    hahahahahahahahahahahaha no need to go to the laughter lounge tonight, plenty of comedians on here!!!!!! :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 93 ✭✭RearNakedJim


    Judomad wrote: »
    hahahahahahahahahahahaha no need to go to the laughter lounge tonight, plenty of comedians on here!!!!!! :D

    I thought it was pretty funny :D, infact people where looking at me i was laughing so hard.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 830 ✭✭✭Judomad


    I thought it was pretty funny :D, infact people where looking at me i was laughing so hard.

    people will always look at handsome divils like yourself though Jim!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 237 ✭✭mickoo


    I thought it was pretty funny :D, infact people where looking at me i was laughing so hard.

    translation.
    Oh john your bumhole tastes so good!

    only 1 exclamation jim as i dont want john slagging you too!! Doh.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 830 ✭✭✭Judomad


    mickoo wrote: »
    translation.



    only 1 exclamation jim as i dont want john slagging you too!! Doh.

    :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭Nothingcompares


    there's a nice judo/bjj discussion derailed


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 830 ✭✭✭Judomad


    there's a nice judo/bjj discussion derailed

    and all because people decided to attack posters rather than peoples posts....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 237 ✭✭mickoo


    ah relax, the thread is still active, light hearted fun thats all. :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,608 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    Judomad wrote: »
    and all because people decided to attack posters rather than peoples posts....

    Your armed with a deadly report post button.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,995 ✭✭✭Tim_Murphy


    Judomad wrote: »
    and all because people decided to attack posters rather than peoples posts....
    Well that, and other people overacting of course. :eek:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 830 ✭✭✭Judomad


    Tim_Murphy wrote: »
    Well that, and other people overacting of course. :eek:

    i take it thats the accent making that spelling mistake, you meant overreacting i take it yeah?????? correct me if im wrong by all means!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,995 ✭✭✭Tim_Murphy


    LOl, ya it's the accent.

    Not having a good day, spelling wise anyway. :pac: I'm even being corrected by somebody who uses 5 question marks after a question! :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 241 ✭✭Pingu


    Tim_Murphy wrote: »
    ... I'm even being corrected by somebody who uses 5 question marks after a question! :)
    Who also has an allergy to capital letters! :pac: Unless it's in his signiture :D.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 93 ✭✭RearNakedJim


    Mairt wrote: »
    deadly report post button.

    And where exactly do i find that? :)

    Since i can't express an opinion on a joke without been attacked personally, by someone i dont even know.

    ps the claws are really coming out in this thread.


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