Upcoming Police State: New laws with e100 on the spot fines for being drunk in public

Run_to_da_hills · 16-09-2008 6:54pm

ShooterSF wrote: »

Next we'll be given an on the spot fine if we're in a shop too long as we MIGHT BE casing out the place and MIGHT be about to rob it.

Naw, shoplifting will soon be a thing of the past.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WV3_jYB5HU

Ozziej · 16-09-2008 9:58pm

Don't ya just love the over the top reaction to a lil anti-social law and order measures. Police state? Ireland is a long way from a police state. America isn't even there and they are most likely to travel to that stage. Look at European police with their careless cruelty,corruption and jack boots. I would love to put the initial poster in Iran, China or South Korea (real police states) and see how it compares to Ireland.
Furthermore you need a hell of alot more police per head of population to enforce police state measures. This is why O'donoghue's zero tolerance proposals fell on their face a number of years ago. These new laws will be enforced to discourage thugs loitering on street corners. Guards will take same lasse faire attitude to middle class teen drinking and outdoor festivals like Spraoi. Mark my words.

Stark · 16-09-2008 10:41pm

javaboy wrote: »

Well that's the electorate's fault really. Sometimes politicians need to have the balls to raise taxes but they know the short term thinking electorate won't vote them in again. Democracy's not perfect I'll admit but we get the government we deserve.

There's more than just balls involved in tax decisions. Raising taxes can have the negative effect of discouraging workers from seeking higher paid jobs. Why work hard for that extra pay increase if 60% of it goes to the government? Generally speaking, increasing the top rate tax beyond 40-something percent actually results in less income tax revenue in the long run.

javaboy · 16-09-2008 10:51pm

Stark wrote: »

There's more than just balls involved in tax decisions. Raising taxes can have the negative effect of discouraging workers from seeking higher paid jobs. Why work hard for that extra pay increase if 60% of it goes to the government? Generally speaking, increasing the top rate tax beyond 40-something percent actually results in less income tax revenue in the long run.

Yes I know. That's all true but sometimes it is the right decision. I was just using it as an example of how politicians will often take the course of action which keeps them in office regardless of whether it is the right choice or not.

Raze_them_all · 16-09-2008 11:18pm

kaimera wrote: »

blow into this bag please.

so 2 r 3 pints and you get fined 100 if that was the case

Run_to_da_hills · 16-09-2008 11:37pm

Ozziej wrote: »

Don't ya just love the over the top reaction to a lil anti-social law and order measures. Police state? Ireland is a long way from a police state. America isn't even there and they are most likely to travel to that stage. Look at European police with their careless cruelty,corruption and jack boots. I would love to put the initial poster in Iran, China or South Korea (real police states) and see how it compares to Ireland.
Furthermore you need a hell of alot more police per head of population to enforce police state measures. This is why O'donoghue's zero tolerance proposals fell on their face a number of years ago. These new laws will be enforced to discourage thugs loitering on street corners. Guards will take same lasse faire attitude to middle class teen drinking and outdoor festivals like Spraoi. Mark my words.

Mate, read the title on this thread, Its about the UPCOMING POLICE STATE, not about an existing police state. It is about new draconian measures that are currently being drafted in to the country in the same manner as one would expect to find in those countries you already mentioned.

These strict laws are now beginning to effect the way the people live in this country, It has shattered the entertainment industry right to the core, Jobs are being be lost, currently there is on average one pub a day is closing down, off licences, night clubs, taxis etc will all be next .

Recently something else has come out of the woodwork called the “National ID". One must also remember that this chipped card is also being simultaneously drafted into other countries right across the globe under various different guises. The very mention of this card is the ultimate sign of an up and coming police state.

javaboy · 16-09-2008 11:41pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Recently something has come out of the woodwork in this country called the “National ID". One must also remember that this micro chipped card is also being simultaneously drafted into other countries right across the globe under various different guises. The very mention of this card is the ultimate sign of an up and coming police state.

Well then there must be a good few up and coming police states because you never stop going on about it.

Run_to_da_hills · 17-09-2008 12:08am

javaboy wrote: »

Well then there must be a good few up and coming police states because you never stop going on about it.

The USA and the UK would be the forerunners.

monument · 17-09-2008 1:37am

How many times does the following have to be corrected on this thread?...

TheNog wrote: »

I have been following this thread for the past couple of days and can see that people are confusing being drunk in a public place and being drunk in a public place which gives rise to the possible apprehension you are a danger to yourself or others.

You're wrong. It applies to both. Both are different offences.

Ponster wrote: »

I'd suggest giving up on the article (they've tried to sex-up the story) and read the extracts from the actual law which have been posted in the thread...

And you're wrong too.

Extracts posted on the thread relate to being a danger to yourself or others etc (ie drunk and disorderly). There is another section signed into law since in recent laws which make it an offence to be just simply be drunk in public.

You can side with the BBC...

Anyone caught being drunk in public in the Republic of Ireland now faces an on-the-spot fine...

...This is 100 euro for being drunk in public or 140 euro for being drunk and disorderly.

And/or the Irish Times...

ANYONE FOUND by the Garda to be drunk in public can now be fined €100 on the spot under new powers just signed into effect.

Gardaí can also now impose an on-the-spot fine of €140 on anyone being drunk and disorderly as part of the latest move by the Minister for Justice, Dermot Ahern, to tackle alcohol abuse.

OR you can trust that just because one poster puts up one bit of written law it so how means that another section of law is not in place.

mayordenis · 17-09-2008 2:25am

What If I'm drunk but I save a baby from a fire?

I'm drunk and possibly in public but why am I getting a fine?

CDfm · 17-09-2008 2:33am

The chances of that happening are slim.

But I suppose its time to dust off those old drunk and disorderly laws.

Public drunkenness is not acceptable in other countries except say the British abroad but do we really see much of it?

javaboy · 17-09-2008 2:34am

mayordenis wrote: »

What If I'm drunk but I save a baby from a fire?

I'm drunk and possibly in public but why am I getting a fine?

For being drunk in public as per the legislation.

ShooterSF · 17-09-2008 2:37am

It is quite ridiculous really. The concept of been given an on the spot fine because you MIGHT possibly do something in the near future. At least it'll be handed out by a guard trained in a minimum of 3 years of seeing into the future classes.
I would definitely refuse the fine and demmand a summons. I'd love to see a guard prove I MAYBE was gonna cause myself or others problems..

CDfm · 17-09-2008 2:47am

is there an appeals process and what happens if someone doesnt pay the fine.

TheNog · 17-09-2008 3:44am

monument wrote: »

You're wrong. It applies to both. Both are different offences.

There is no law which makes it an offence to be drunk in public. If you believe there is please provide a link. Quit scaremongering.

monument wrote: »

Extracts posted on the thread relate to being a danger to yourself or others etc (ie drunk and disorderly). There is another section signed into law since in recent laws which make it an offence to be just simply be drunk in public.

Section 4 of the PUblic Order Act 1994 is Intoxication in a Public Place which specifically states a Garda must believe a person to be a danger to themselves or others.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1994/en/act/pub/0002/sec0004.html#zza2y1994s4

There is no drunk and disorderly offence but only disorderly conduct in a public place.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1994/en/act/pub/0002/sec0005.html#zza2y1994s5
Don't believe everything you read in the papers.

TheNog · 17-09-2008 3:50am

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Mate, read the title on this thread, Its about the UPCOMING POLICE STATE, not about an existing police state. It is about new draconian measures that are currently being drafted in to the country in the same manner as one would expect to find in those countries you already mentioned.

This is not a new draconian law. The Public ORder act has been with us since 1994.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

These strict laws are now beginning to effect the way the people live in this country, It has shattered the entertainment industry right to the core, Jobs are being be lost, currently there is on average one pub a day is closing down, off licences, night clubs, taxis etc will all be next .

Yes it is called the recession. You know where people have less money an all.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Recently something else has come out of the woodwork called the “National ID". One must also remember that this chipped card is also being simultaneously drafted into other countries right across the globe under various different guises. The very mention of this card is the ultimate sign of an up and coming police state.

Why are you so terrified of a National ID card? Are you recruiting?

monosharp · 17-09-2008 4:29am

Dragan wrote: »

Drunk = just that. Think of those few folk you see about town everynight who have trouble walking/standing etc. The cops need to get those guys home. As such, you have cops playing taxi driver to morons who can't control their intakes.

wtf are you talking about ?

I have been getting hammered for nearly 10 years and I've been a staggering drunken sack of guinness and no guard has ever had to take me home.

What I want to know is if this law means that I can't go to the pub, get hammered drunk and stagger home.

I WANT to be so drunk I have trouble walking, its the only way to know I've got my moneys worth of booze.

And for anyone who said this is bringing us in line with the rest of the world, thats complete bs.

I have done a lot of travelling and its mostly the same everywhere. What Ireland excels at is been drunk and disorderly. Regardless of our reputation lots of nationalities get legless wasted too. They just don't act the idiot and cause as much trouble as we do.

monosharp · 17-09-2008 4:33am

Ozziej wrote: »

Don't ya just love the over the top reaction to a lil anti-social law and order measures. Police state? Ireland is a long way from a police state. America isn't even there and they are most likely to travel to that stage. Look at European police with their careless cruelty,corruption and jack boots. I would love to put the initial poster in Iran, China or South Korea (real police states) and see how it compares to Ireland.

I'm In South Korea and have been for 12 months.

I've seen 1 drunken idiot trying to fight the cops the cops just man handled him and brought him to a taxi and sent him home.

Delivery guys casually ride on footpaths to get past traffic, drunken people are everywhere (not causing problems).

Korea is not a police state now.

Its a long time since it was a police state mate.

Ireland IS worse.

monosharp · 17-09-2008 4:35am

CDfm wrote: »

Public drunkenness is not acceptable in other countries except say the British abroad but do we really see much of it?

Where do you get that idea ????

Its acceptable everywhere I've been unless your talking about saudi arabia etc.

pirelli · 17-09-2008 4:44am

pirelli wrote: »

LOl!

So take their taxi money and leave them penniless.
How is that going to improve their situation.

Wouldn't They will need breathylisers to prove someone is drunk,

They might start the State trooper tests; that they do to measure the inebriation of the drunkee. Citizens might be accosted by gardai and forced to say the alphabet backwards correctly or stand on your head, and if you slip up you have to pay 100 euro.

classic extortion

Ponster wrote: »

Actually I see that as a much better solution to determine if someone is drunk. I doubt cops will get people to blow in a bag as that determines if you have drunk too much to drive, not if you're drunk or not.

breathylisers or state trooper inebriation test's.?

Dragan wrote: »

It's walk a straight line, touch your nose from an arms outstretched positon or stand on one foot for a predetermined length of time.

Not blow in a brown bag then?

The brown bag test, I haven't heard of that myself either.

You can consume 100cl alcohol and the breathylisers can still read zero as your liver can cope with a certain amount. You can also be drunk from a neglible amount of alcohol and still read zero. Albiet only temporarily tipsy.

The state trooper test determines whether your fit to drive, in some parts of america such as montana it is not illegal to drink and drive, but the state troopers must use A fit to drive test.

Run_to_da_hills · 17-09-2008 8:00am

TheNog wrote: »

This is not a new draconian law. The Public Order act has been with us since 1994.

What are you on about, I’m talking of 10pm closing of Off licences, drinking in Public, the ridiculous new closing hours of night clubs, on the spot fines for having one to many. We are now the laughing stock nanny state of Europe. I was in London a few weeks ago and my mates there couldn’t get over it.

TheNog wrote: »

Yes it is called the recession. You know where people have less money an all.

This industry has been sliding down the toilet and the recession is not helping by the current Fiana Fail Government. It is fuelling the problem more so than ever when they should be doing more to help this industry. Its peoples lively hoods, DJ's taxi drivers, publicans, barmen, bouncers etc.

It is beginning to become like Saudi Arabia where the consumption of Alcohol will be is considered totally anti social just like smoking fags. I could possibly see house parties being banned, There is already talk of cops being able to raid a private house party for drugs without a search warrant.

These law hit EVERYONE not just a handful of yobbos that shout too loud on the way home.

TheNog wrote: »

Why are you so terrified of a National ID card? Are you recruiting?

I am not against carrying conventional ID as I always do, ie my current driving license. I am very concerned about this particularly format of ID and what it can lead to if it gets out of control. I don't want to go repeating myself

Ciaran500 · 17-09-2008 8:30am

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

It is beginning to become like Saudi Arabia where the consumption of Alcohol will be is considered totally anti social

LOL

I can't see the Irish going for that one.

Zillah · 17-09-2008 8:39am

monosharp wrote: »

I'm In South Korea and have been for 12 months.

I presume he meant North.

Dragan · 17-09-2008 9:59am

monosharp wrote: »

wtf are you talking about ?

I have been getting hammered for nearly 10 years and I've been a staggering drunken sack of guinness and no guard has ever had to take me home.

With all due respect to your love of getting **** faced, if you are getting home then you will have nothing to worry about i assume? There is a massive difference between you tanning a few and being wobbly and you tanning a few and falling asleep at the side of the road.

TheNog · 17-09-2008 10:33am

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

There is already talk of cops being able to raid a private house party for drugs without a search warrant.

Now I know you are talking pure and utter crap. To introduce a law where Gardai can raid a house for drugs without a warrant would require a change in the Constitution. It is the same deal with the Greens suggestion that Gardai could enter a premises just to switch off an alarm.

To be quite honest with you, you should be working as a journalist with a tabloid newspaper with all the unbelievable stories and ideas. Some people on this thread firmly believe they can be fined for just being drunk in public which is simply not true. I appreciate you may have some concerns but tbh you are a scaremongerer and nothing else.

CDfm · 17-09-2008 10:40am

I suppose really its part of the culture

Next thing we will see posted is that its racist - anti-traveller or Anti- limerick or anti-a couple of places in dublin or something

whats wrong taking away beerr money from drunks

CDfm · 17-09-2008 10:44am

I suppose really its part of the culture judging from the posts here theres a lot of drinkers out there

Next thing we will see posted is that its racist - anti-traveller or Anti- limerick or anti-a couple of places in dublin or something

whats wrong taking away beerr money from drunks and ploughing into cleaning services

i think drunks should be put on puke mop up duty too the legislationdoesnt go far enough

Dyr · 17-09-2008 10:53am

Dragan wrote: »

With all due respect to your love of getting **** faced, if you are getting home then you will have nothing to worry about i assume? There is a massive difference between you tanning a few and being wobbly and you tanning a few and falling asleep at the side of the road.

but its up to the garda to decide how massive that difference is...

CiaranC · 17-09-2008 10:57am

TheNog wrote: »

There is no law which makes it an offence to be drunk in public. If you believe there is please provide a link. Quit scaremongering.

The article we are discussing (hint: Its in the OP) suggests two fines, one for drunk and disorderly and a lesser one for just being drunk. Try reading the thread before commenting.

Run_to_da_hills · 17-09-2008 10:58am

TheNog wrote: »

Now I know you are talking pure and utter crap. To introduce a law where Gardai can raid a house for drugs without a warrant would require a change in the Constitution. It is the same deal with the Greens suggestion that Gardai could enter a premises just to switch off an alarm. .

I am talking what is FACT and is exactly what coming out of the Dail from our Government ministers. http://www.breakingnews.ie/archives/2007/1211/ireland/mheyaucwkfey/

http://www.wiseupjournal.com/?p=243

TheNog wrote: »

To be quite honest with you, you should be working as a journalist with a tabloid newspaper with all the unbelievable stories and ideas. Some people on this thread firmly believe they can be fined for just being drunk in public which is simply not true. I appreciate you may have some concerns but tbh you are a scaremongerer and nothing else.

The material I am writing about is FACT and is coming from respected broad sheet sites such as the BBC and Times on line.

Why do you hide the truth and say that you CANNOT be done for being drunk in a public place when the law says you can. ITS A e100 EURO FINE !! What rock have you been hiding under for the last few days. Please read this article again from the BBC PRESS http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/7616715.stm

Upcoming Police State: New laws with e100 on the spot fines for being drunk in public

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