Charles Darwin Vs Religion ?

SoupyNorman · 04-08-2008 10:57PM

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Yes, I aware of that part of the Bible. Those verses, however, do not conflict with evolutionary theory. Instead, they only mention God creating the universe, the method is not mentioned. I'm unsure as to you point here.

Either you are actually ignorant of what, in my experience, is the majority interpretation of Genesis by Christians in Europe: a metaphorical tale of creation (also know as theistic evolution) or you are being deliberately obtuse in your insistence that all Christians are young earth creationists.

Well my interpretation of God Creating the universe does conflict with the evolutionary theory...

# Fifth day: God commands the sea to "teem with living creatures", and birds to fly across the heavens (sixth command); He creates birds and sea creatures, and commands them to be fruitful and multiply.
# Sixth day: God commands the land to bring forth living creatures (seventh command); He makes wild beasts, livestock and reptiles. He then creates Man and Woman in His "image" and "likeness"

To me, it is saying that living creatures were 'placed' on the earth fully formed.

bringitdown · 04-08-2008 11:01PM

RiotO wrote: »

Why can't an individual pick and choose what to believe in? It's your own personal belief after all so why do you have to essentially sign up to an entire set of beliefs. That's why I find organised religion hard to grasp as a concept. We are brought up to believe a whole range of stuff without actually thinking about it for ourselves. I'd consider myself agnostic btw.

Am pretty sure Dawkins would agree, and Darwin for that matter. Where they may disagree is when parents by default impose their beliefs on their children.

How do you get to a stage that children can grow up, be educated scientifically and then in their own time and space explore their own spirituality or lack thereof free from the imposition of their parents and peers beliefs ... ?

I'm atheist BTW, and I face the same connundrum ... if I ever have children how do I foster that open edict without predisposing them to scientific reason without ridiculing organised religion? Would I be guilty of 'brain washing' as Dawkins might say?

I agree with him most of the time but I think he should concentrate on his secular agenda and leave the religious to ridicule themselves, they are very adept at doing it.

Plenty of debate on this in the Christianity and the Atheism / Agnostic forums.

Parsley · 04-08-2008 11:04PM

bravestarr082 wrote: »

Well my interpretation of God Creating the universe does conflict with the evolutionary theory...

# Fifth day: God commands the sea to "teem with living creatures", and birds to fly across the heavens (sixth command); He creates birds and sea creatures, and commands them to be fruitful and multiply.
# Sixth day: God commands the land to bring forth living creatures (seventh command); He makes wild beasts, livestock and reptiles. He then creates Man and Woman in His "image" and "likeness"

To me, it is saying that living creatures were 'placed' on the earth fully formed.

Also, the whole "days" thing before there was an earth and a sun for it to orbit around is a bit silly. :pac:

shenanigans1982 · 04-08-2008 11:07PM

If Sky News told you some guy looking like a Bee Gee was performing miracles in the Middle East today would you base your whole life beliefs around him?

I seriously doubt it so Religion = bullsh*t.

Seachmall · 04-08-2008 11:09PM

genericgoon wrote: »

Meh, the chances of you picking the right interpretation of God's will combined with the chances that a God exists means that chances of achieving salvation(if there is a such a thing, personally I think not) are hopelessly slim.

Times the odds your even with the right religion in the first place...

Different region or different time and we would all probably be believing in a different God with different beliefs.

rossie1977 · 04-08-2008 11:15PM

Seachmall wrote: »

Apolagies, but we now know that the world is 3.56billion years old :eek: (Its in the link I provided). Thats alot older then 6,000 years:D

the earth is 6,000 years, people like this guy say it so it must be true :pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWCEwOC_ubY

krd · 04-08-2008 11:18PM

Seachmall wrote: »

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotO View Post
Why can't an individual pick and choose what to believe in? It's your own personal belief after all so why do you have to essentially sign up to an entire set of beliefs. That's why I find organised religion hard to grasp as a concept. We are brought up to believe a whole range of stuff without actually thinking about it for ourselves. I'd consider myself agnostic btw.

Why can't an individual pick and choose what they want to believe in?

It would be fine if people did that and kept it to themselves. But like many people, I don't want creepy people telling my children that there are fairies in the sky, who love them and they can do whatever evil they like and be forgiven.

The problem is people with these hokey supersitions get together in groups and start forcing it on other people. (but they'll protect their loyal child molestors)

The clerical sex abuse went on in Ireland, not because people didn't know about it. But because of the whole 'holy god' lie drove people to protecting the sky pilots over their victims.

Talk to someone in their fifties. If they say they knew nothing about the sexual abuse, they're lying like the Germans who used to say they had no idea the Jews were being gassed.

I want to get rid of religous people because I think it's a dangerous scam run by liars and scumbags.

You can believe the earth is flat if you like... But don't try and pass it off as fact. And don't go telling it to children.

The Athesists have won,,, and won for ever. If we could just replace the first holy communion and confirmation with something secular,, we'd be nearer down the road to completely wiping out the menace that is Christianity.

But don't worry we've already won (he hee ha ha ha LOL <-- evil echoy laugh)

The game is over,, Enlightenment Ideals have won out. The bearer of light has triumphed.

FruitLover · 04-08-2008 11:28PM

Personally, I think religion is a cop-out. I'm more comfortable with my beliefs that I will never understand why we're here, that there's any other 'world' after this life, that there is no such thing as a soul, that humans are nothing more than animals with powerful brains, etc. Some people feel more comfortable by imagining that the world and everything on it was created by some dude with a beard who lives in the sky (:rolleyes:). If you bollox up your life, don't worry, you'll be happy forever in heaven after you die! (again, :rolleyes:).

bringitdown wrote: »

How do you get to a stage that children can grow up, be educated scientifically and then in their own time and space explore their own spirituality or lack thereof free from the imposition of their parents and peers beliefs ... ?

I think you can offer the facts as we know them without impairing 'spiritual' or philosophical exploration. For example:

Child: Daddy, what is everything made from?
Daddy: Blah blah quarks, blah blah gluons, etc etc

Child: Daddy, when did people start living on Earth?
Daddy: Well, judging by carbon-dating of fossils, the earliest known examples of the genus Homo lived approximately.... etc

Child: Daddy, why are we here?
Daddy: Dunno.

Seachmall · 04-08-2008 11:35PM

rossie1977 wrote: »

the earth is 6,000 years, people like this guy say it so it must be true :pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWCEwOC_ubY

Thats a pretty good video, however if it were all as obvious as he makes it out to be we wouldn't be having this discussion. There must be more too it.

rossie1977 · 04-08-2008 11:41PM

Seachmall wrote: »

Thats a pretty good video, however if it were all as obvious as he makes it out to be we wouldn't be having this discussion. There must be more too it.

the argument he makes about the moon is bogus, its moving away from the earth at less than one inch per year so after 4.5 billion years it has moved roughly 70,000 miles away so it was roughly 180,000 miles from earth at one point in the beginning. Then he talks about floods etc that would have caused (yeah how exactly were the oceans created

)

Parsley · 04-08-2008 11:44PM

Seachmall wrote: »

Thats a pretty good video, however if it were all as obvious as he makes it out to be we wouldn't be having this discussion. There must be more too it.

.....and there are so many things wrong with it you'd be hard pressed to find somewhere to start.

Seachmall · 04-08-2008 11:47PM

Parsley wrote: »

.....and there are so many things wrong with it you'd be hard pressed to find somewhere to start.

rossie1977 wrote: »

the argument he makes about the moon is bogus, its moving away from the earth at less than one inch per year so after 4.5 billion years it has moved roughly 70,000 miles away so it was roughly 180,000 miles from earth at one point in the beginning. Then he talks about floods etc that would have caused (yeah how exactly were the oceans created )

I'll have to take ye're words on that, alot of it went over my head:D

krd · 04-08-2008 11:51PM

Black hole theory shows that something can come out of nothing.

This experimentally demonstratable by the Casimir effect. Which also explains the consistency of mayonaise (I have not made that bit up)

Religon gets in the way of forcing people to solve existential problems.

If all those religous suicide bombers had actually stayed alive and worked on the material issues that effected them and their environment, they could've had a better world in the now, and not in the hereafter.

But worse,,, Religon is a scam.

The German word for Heaven is Himmel,,, which just means Sky

There's nothing up in the sky apart for nothing. And the stars,, but what beautiful stars they are.

Virgin births,, resurection ,,, all a bit far fetched Ted, isn't it.

Grow up people

Cunny-Funt · 05-08-2008 12:05AM

Riddle101 wrote: »

You should believe what you want no matter what other people say. However IMO neither side is truly right Science or Religon, they are both wrong in centain ways

In what ways is religion right?

Seachmall · 05-08-2008 12:10AM

Riddle101 wrote: »

You should believe what you want no matter what other people say. However IMO neither side is truly right Science or Religon, they are both wrong in centain ways

Science never claims to be truely right, that is why everything is a theory. Whats true today may not be true tomorrow, everything hangs on the fact it hasn't been disproved yet which is why I haven't ruled out God.

krd · 05-08-2008 12:10AM

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

In what ways is religion right?

I believe in horoscopes.

Nobody's ever heard of an Astrologist blowing themselves up on a bus,, or flying a plane into a building.

Captain Darling · 05-08-2008 12:12AM

Science help...........

I mean God help us............:pac:

Seachmall · 05-08-2008 12:13AM

krd wrote: »

I believe in horoscopes.

Nobody's ever heard of an Astrologist blowing themselves up on a bus,, or flying a plane into a building.

I'm sure they have, it may not have been for there beliefs but rarely do Atheists blow people up on busses for their beliefs, mainly because they're defined as not having beliefs.

Zillah · 05-08-2008 12:15AM

As an educated atheist this thread is sheer agony.

Seachmall · 05-08-2008 12:18AM

Zillah wrote: »

As an educated atheist this thread is sheer agony.

Care to educate us? Things seem to be slowing down around here.:o

05-08-2008 12:21AM

krd wrote: »

Why can't an individual pick and choose what they want to believe in?

It would be fine if people did that and kept it to themselves. But like many people, I don't want creepy people telling my children that there are fairies in the sky, who love them and they can do whatever evil they like and be forgiven.

The problem is people with these hokey supersitions get together in groups and start forcing it on other people. (but they'll protect their loyal child molestors)

The clerical sex abuse went on in Ireland, not because people didn't know about it. But because of the whole 'holy god' lie drove people to protecting the sky pilots over their victims.

Talk to someone in their fifties. If they say they knew nothing about the sexual abuse, they're lying like the Germans who used to say they had no idea the Jews were being gassed.

I want to get rid of religous people because I think it's a dangerous scam run by liars and scumbags.

You can believe the earth is flat if you like... But don't try and pass it off as fact. And don't go telling it to children.

The Athesists have won,,, and won for ever. If we could just replace the first holy communion and confirmation with something secular,, we'd be nearer down the road to completely wiping out the menace that is Christianity.

But don't worry we've already won (he hee ha ha ha LOL <-- evil echoy laugh)

The game is over,, Enlightenment Ideals have won out. The bearer of light has triumphed.

Fairies,Sky Pilots?Are you on Shrooms?

Cunny-Funt · 05-08-2008 12:22AM

rossie1977 wrote: »

the earth is 6,000 years, people like this guy say it so it must be true :pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWCEwOC_ubY

I've seen a few of his vids and he makes me wonder what a young hitler would do with a youtube account.

The guys a nutjob.

Dave! · 05-08-2008 01:37AM

As long as you're willing to adapt and contort your religious beliefs to fit in with reality, like a good Cafeteria theist, I don't see why there needs to be any conflict......

krd · 05-08-2008 02:04AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Fairies,Sky Pilots?Are you on Shrooms?

Oh right,, just because you have respect for these weirdoes in dresses,, you'd like it if I called them "Father" -- or priest or nuns.

Just because you wrote that,, the next time I see an old nun collecting for charity I'm going to spit in her little old face.

(and if I see a muslim girl in Hijab,, I'm going to say,,"what's wrong sweet tits,, are you so ****ing ugly and hairy,, you've got to hide yourself from the general public,, as a social service")

And it will be completely your fault.

The blame will be completely on your shoulders.

krd · 05-08-2008 02:07AM

Zillah wrote: »

As an educated atheist this thread is sheer agony.

What's so educated about your Atheism,,, is it some kind of science.

You are a know nothing pseudo intellectual.

DeVore · 05-08-2008 02:17AM

I am educated and I'm also an agnostic. Theism is becoming dangerous when it purports to over shadow that which we can prove in this world.

Darwin is correct and can quite easily be shown to be correct with math and computer models in tandem with observed biological observations. Its not even close.

Whats happening lately is a US-centric attempt to spray so much "ink" into the water that everything is obscured so that the various religions' embarrasment over various different creation myths can be hidden. If you've been banging on about the Garden of Eden and the Flood for centuries and then some clever clogs says "oh, i can show that thats not what happened", do you really think they are going to say "oh, um... its a fair cop".

Seriously, its degrading to those of real spirituality that anyone tries to put forward these "theories" of the earth being 6k years old or of Man springing fully formed from the head of God (to mix religious sources).

It needs to be fought at every step from being introduced as science in our schools and accepted as an alternative to geniune and painstakingly proven science.

DeV.

krd · 05-08-2008 02:30AM

Zillah wrote: »

As an educated atheist this thread is sheer agony.

Sorry for my lack of education. But in my primary school most of my time was spent around childmolestors preparing me (or Grooming me) for my first holy communion and confirmation. When I should have been learning to stuff.

Anyway I believe anyone who admits to even a mild bit of "spirituality" is nothing more then the lowest form of criminal.

I sincerely believe this.... And the sooner we can start loading these people, and their children into gas chambers the better.

Kernel · 05-08-2008 02:34AM

I like science, I also like Jeebus.

It has long been my opinion that belief in God and science can easily go hand in hand. There is so much we dont understand about the universe, the nature of reality and our own consciousness that I conclude that there is a design behind it. Indeed, a reason. I think Terry Pratchett said it best in his usual sarcastic way when he said "in the beginning was nothing.... which exploded".

The laws of physics and the universe which we do understand, along with all other sciences, fit too perfectly in my opinion to indicate that it's all a matter of chance. The only counterargument to the intelligent design of the universe is that if everything wasn't so perfect then we would not be around to ponder it.. in other words, the universe could not exist any other way. To me, that belief isn't good enough. Everything is too perfect and I believe we are only scratching the surface of our own consciousness which I think has a meaning to it... perhaps 'heaven' - to use that metaphor.

Kernel · 05-08-2008 02:36AM

krd wrote: »

Anyway I believe anyone who admits to even a mild bit of "spirituality" is nothing more then the lowest form of criminal.

I sincerely believe this.... And the sooner we can start loading these people, and their children into gas chambers the better.

Perhaps your extreme prejudices cloud your logic on the topic?? To me, your statement is the equivalent of: "a black person was rude to me once, they're all a bunch of rude bastards".

DeVore · 05-08-2008 02:50AM

He's obviously being sarcastic.

Which is the lowest form of argument.

DeV.

Charles Darwin Vs Religion ?

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