Charles Darwin Vs Religion ?

Chong · 04-08-2008 09:21PM #1

So then knowing quite a few people on her adore Darwin and his biggest fan Richard Dawkins, I have just watched the "The Genius of Charles Darwin" on Channel 4. I believe in most of Darwins work of what I know but I also have fatih in religion , is that possible, or should it be one or the other per say.

The way Dawkins speaks , religion is stupidity as Darwin disproves it.

Riddle101 · 04-08-2008 09:31PM

Van Zuylen wrote: »

So then knowing quite a few people on her adore Darwin and his biggest fan Richard Dawkins, I have just watched the "The Genius of Charles Darwin" on Channel 4. I believe in most of Darwins work of what I know but I also have fatih in religion , is that possible, or should it be one or the other per say.

The way Dawkins speaks , religion is stupidity as Darwin disproves it.

You should believe what you want no matter what other people say. However IMO neither side is truly right Science or Religon, they are both wrong in centain ways

PrivateEye · 04-08-2008 09:32PM

I'm an agnostic, out and out. I refuse to rule anything out completely, but I think logic stands against religion to be honest. Obviously, I would love to be proven wrong. I find Dawkins very, very annoying- and several of my friends who wouldn't touch religion with a large stick agree.

When I was younger, a tune by a punk band called NOFX stuck with me

It's not that I don't believe in Jesus Christ.
It's just I care about other things.
The world could certainly use some miracles,
Until then I'll put my faith in human being.

Dawkins is the high priest of atheism, and the one thing more annoying that a gobsh!e out side the GPO shoving Christian leaflets into your shopping bag is a smug annoying bloke like Dawkins flogging books on telly in his trademark 'I'm smart, the world is thick' way.

SoupyNorman · 04-08-2008 09:32PM

What of Darwins work do you not believe in?

brianthebard · 04-08-2008 09:33PM

The catholic church says yes.So long as you don't go in for higher criticism then its all good.

BroomBurner · 04-08-2008 09:44PM

There's nothing to say that they can't co-exist, bar the "creationists". I am both a scientist and a believer in God and think you should believe in whatever suits you best.

IMO, science tells us how we're here, religion tells us why.

Fanny Cradock · 04-08-2008 09:55PM

I'm a Christian (not Catholic, BTW) and I see no conflict. I really dislike it when people try to create divisions between science and faith in God - like holding belief in both is somehow impossible in one person. Science informs us on scientific matters, religion (or faith if you prefer) informs us on metaphysical matters.

brianthebard · 04-08-2008 09:57PM

Wasn't science in part designed to better understand god?

Fanny Cradock · 04-08-2008 10:04PM

Well, I don't think you can say it was designed with any one intention in mind other than understanding. However, I guess that for many it was and still remains a primary motivation.

Seachmall · 04-08-2008 10:04PM

brianthebard wrote: »

Wasn't science in part designed to better understand god?

To understand the world, whether that proved or disproved the existence of God is irrelevant.

Either way I don't think religion can be taken seriously. I'm agnostic and believe there is a chance God exists but I refuse to accept that the bible is the word of God. It was written by men, men make mistakes. It has been edited and disected by the church and so what ever truth may have been there is long gone.

If in fact there is a God he is not perfect either. He is not all-good or is he not all-knowing, looking at the world we live in it is clear one of these is a lie.

He may be eternal but if it is so hard to believe that is it so hard to believe the universe is eternal?

I seem to be ranting on, no doubt this has been discussed 100s of times already in this forum

SoupyNorman · 04-08-2008 10:06PM

BroomBurner wrote: »

There's nothing to say that they can't co-exist, bar the "creationists". I am both a scientist and a believer in God and think you should believe in whatever suits you best.

IMO, science tells us how we're here, religion tells us why.

Certain religions teach that the earth was created in 6days, pretty direct conflict there. I've a slight sliver of a belief in a higher power as even the most esteemed scientists can only offer a theory as to was was before "The Big Bang". The sliver of belief is about .1% .

Fact and proof for me. The Bible is a work of fiction, thats what I believe.

Seachmall · 04-08-2008 10:07PM

bravestarr082 wrote: »

Certain religions teach that the earth was created in 6days, pretty direct conflict there. I've a slight sliver of a belief in a higher power as even the most esteemed scientists can only offer a theory as to was was before "The Big Bang". The sliver of belief is about .1% .

Fact and proof for me. The Bible is a work of fiction, thats what I believe.

Religion also tells us the world is only a few million years old when we know for a fact it is billions of years old.

Did anyone see 'Was Darwin Wrong' on National Geo a few weeks ago? Interesting stuff, Was Darwin Wrong?

the drifter · 04-08-2008 10:07PM

Darwin has to be right.... if i wake up some morning and.. you know that dude from nazareth is walking around again...boy am i going to be red faced...

Fanny Cradock · 04-08-2008 10:10PM

bravestarr082 wrote: »

Certain religions teach that the earth was created in 6days, pretty direct conflict there. I've a slight sliver of a belief in a higher power as even the most esteemed scientists can only offer a theory as to was was before "The Big Bang". The sliver of belief is about .1% .

You seem to be mistaking creationism with Christianity.

rossie1977 · 04-08-2008 10:10PM

Seachmall wrote: »

Religion also tells us the world is only a few million years old when we know for a fact it is billions of years old.

a few thousand actually, around 6,000 years old to be precise

Talliesin · 04-08-2008 10:11PM

Van Zuylen wrote: »

I believe in most of Darwins work of what I know but I also have fatih in religion , is that possible, or should it be one or the other per say.

Well, since Darwin remained a Christian after arriving at his theories (he did later become an agnostic, but that was some time later and theodicy was a bigger sticking point for him than creation myths), and the Big Bang Theory (an even bigger blow to literal belief in most creation myths) was first put forward by a Catholic priest, there would certainly seem to be more than a few people who've manage to believe in both.

Most religious people in the West believe in evolution.

Van Zuylen wrote: »

The way Dawkins speaks , religion is stupidity as Darwin disproves it.

Dawkins should stick to what he's good at. He's good at explaining evolutionary theory; but he really isn't very good at religion. He builds strawmen and knocks them down very well, and if Atheism ever needs its own L. Ron Hubbard he'll have placed himself very well to take the job, but anyone citing The Golden Bough as a source on religious history can't really be taken seriously (funnily enough, a strawman argument by Atheists against some other religions used to be to mock them were some of their members to take The Golden Bough seriously!).

genericgoon · 04-08-2008 10:13PM

the drifter wrote: »

Darwin has to be right.... if i wake up some morning and.. you know that dude from nazareth is walking around again...boy am i going to be red faced...

I think most of the creationist crap is sourced from the Old Testament. Maybe he'd just say that was one of the wrong bits of the OT. lol

SoupyNorman · 04-08-2008 10:17PM

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

You seem to be mistaking creationism with Christianity.

Eh, I dont think so...

Genesis 1:1-2:3

Sqaull20 · 04-08-2008 10:22PM

I love listening to George Carlin, Dawkins takes it too seriously.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o&feature=related

Seachmall · 04-08-2008 10:23PM

rossie1977 wrote: »

a few thousand actually, around 6,000 years old to be precise

Apolagies, but we now know that the world is 3.56billion years old :eek: (Its in the link I provided). Thats alot older then 6,000 years:D

Executive Steve · 04-08-2008 10:23PM

bravestarr082 wrote: »

Eh, I dont think so...

Genesis 1:1-2:3

good luck finding a christian in ireland who actually believes thatthough... (even in america it's harder than you'd think)

if you do, ask them if they eat pork, circumcise their children, and take mildewed leather to the priest for puification.

Seachmall · 04-08-2008 10:27PM

[cm]tyranny wrote: »

good luck finding a christian in ireland who actually believes thatthough... (even in america it's harder than you'd think)

if you do, ask them if they eat pork, circumcise their children, and take mildewed leather to the priest for puification.

If you don't believe it can you really believe the rest of the bible? How can you tell whats just a 'story' or not? You can't pick and choose, you either believe and follow 'Gods word' or you're not a Christian and you're not going to heaven.

bringitdown · 04-08-2008 10:34PM

[cm]tyranny wrote: »

good luck finding a christian in ireland who actually believes thatthough... (even in america it's harder than you'd think)

if you do, ask them if they eat pork, circumcise their children, and take mildewed leather to the priest for puification.

http://www.creation.ie/

Not too active tho ... am sure there are a few

Parsley · 04-08-2008 10:35PM

[cm]tyranny wrote: »

good luck finding a christian in ireland who actually believes thatthough... (even in america it's harder than you'd think)

if you do, ask them if they eat pork, circumcise their children, and take mildewed leather to the priest for puification.

I'd link you to the thread in Christianity (about 300 pages i think?) but I'm banned from there.

Fanny Cradock · 04-08-2008 10:36PM

bravestarr082 wrote: »

Eh, I dont think so...

Genesis 1:1-2:3

Yes, I aware of that part of the Bible. Those verses, however, do not conflict with evolutionary theory. Instead, they only mention God creating the universe, the method is not mentioned. I'm unsure as to you point here.

Either you are actually ignorant of what, in my experience, is the majority interpretation of Genesis by Christians in Europe: a metaphorical tale of creation (also know as theistic evolution) or you are being deliberately obtuse in your insistence that all Christians are young earth creationists.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 04-08-2008 10:39PM

um
it says in genesis that god made eve from adam's rib. how does that fit into christian evolutionary theory?

Seachmall · 04-08-2008 10:42PM

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Yes, I aware of that part of the Bible. Those verses, however, do not conflict with evolutionary theory. Instead, they only mention God creating the universe, the method is not mentioned. I'm unsure as to you point here.

Either you are actually ignorant of what, in my experience, is the majority interpretation of Genesis by Christians in Europe: a metaphorical tale of creation (also know as theistic evolution) or you are being deliberately obtuse in your insistence that all Christians are young earth creationists.

And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

Don't sound like evolution, and how does anyone know its a metaphorical tale? Its written with the same sinserity (sp?) of the rest of the bible, if you don't take the word of God seriously you won't get into heaven :mad:

RiotO · 04-08-2008 10:45PM

Seachmall wrote: »

If you don't believe it can you really believe the rest of the bible? How can you tell whats just a 'story' or not? You can't pick and choose, you either believe and follow 'Gods word' or you're not a Christian and you're not going to heaven.

Why can't an individual pick and choose what to believe in? It's your own personal belief after all so why do you have to essentially sign up to an entire set of beliefs. That's why I find organised religion hard to grasp as a concept. We are brought up to believe a whole range of stuff without actually thinking about it for ourselves. I'd consider myself agnostic btw.

Seachmall · 04-08-2008 10:50PM

RiotO wrote: »

Why can't an individual pick and choose what to believe in? It's your own personal belief after all so why do you have to essentially sign up to an entire set of beliefs. That's why I find organised religion hard to grasp as a concept. We are brought up to believe a whole range of stuff without actually thinking about it for ourselves. I'd consider myself agnostic btw.

I too am agnostic, and my belief in the possibility of God includes him having nothing to do with the church, just thought I'd clear that up from the get go.

Its perfectly fine to have your own set of beliefs, its the logical thing (as logical as God goes anyway) but it states in the Bible numerous times you must follow Gods word (and Jesuss' for that matter) to the Tee or you will burn for eternity. The Church promotes this however they also choose to leave bits and pieces out of the bible, stuff like murder of non-believers and the like. They kinda have to but can you see the hypocrisy?

Parsley · 04-08-2008 10:50PM

RiotO wrote: »

Why can't an individual pick and choose what to believe in? It's your own personal belief after all so why do you have to essentially sign up to an entire set of beliefs. That's why I find organised religion hard to grasp as a concept. We are brought up to believe a whole range of stuff without actually thinking about it for ourselves. I'd consider myself agnostic btw.

Well if you believe "some bits" of the Bible as the literal word of God, which is what it's supposed to be, then dismiss other bits as being incorrect, it kinda throws the whole supreme/perfect/infallible being concpt out the window doesn't it? It's a simple case of people more readily believing what they'd rather was true, grasping at straws so that their religious beliefs aren't scoffed at.

genericgoon · 04-08-2008 10:57PM

Meh, the chances of you picking the right interpretation of God's will combined with the chances that a God exists means that chances of achieving salvation(if there is a such a thing, personally I think not) are hopelessly slim.

Charles Darwin Vs Religion ?

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