Religious Symbols - Time to take them down?

deadwood · 19-07-2008 12:44PM #1

Does anyone else agree that religious symbols displayed in Garda Stations and other public buildings is inappropriate? Most stations have a Sacred Heart picture in the kitchen or, worse, the Public Office.
There was a big hoo-haa by members a few years ago when Gardai in a recently refurbished station were directed to remove a Sacred Heart picture as it didn't consider people of other faiths who would visit the station (I agreed).
Should Pioneer pins, St. Brighids crosses etc. be banned? Christmas trees?
If management have a problem with a member wearing a turban (apologies if it's the wrong term), then surely we should prevent any displays of faith. If not, should we allow any person wear whatever clothing or accessory they feel is in keeping with their own religion?
There was a story recently where a Muslim girl was not allowed wear a veil (apologies again) at school in keeping with her faith but nobody suggested nuns in schools should remove theirs.

Should we move into the 21st century?

Jesus Wept · 19-07-2008 12:50PM

Damn right, a load of me granny, take it down.

CO19 · 19-07-2008 02:43PM

Why should we ? just incase it might offend a visitor to a station,just incase those 'visitors' to stations don't realise it they're in a country that's predominantly Catholic country so they can expect to see religious stuff,do you think that if we went to say India,Pakistan etc that we should expect them to take down their equivelant of what we stick up ?? No I don't think so,as the saying goes when in Rome

.

Jesus Wept · 19-07-2008 02:59PM

Let's align all our policys with India and Pakistan.

CO19 · 19-07-2008 03:01PM

You know what I mean :rolleyes:

keen · 19-07-2008 03:05PM

CO19 wrote: »

Why should we ? just incase it might offend a visitor to a station,just incase those 'visitors' to stations don't realise it they're in a country that's predominantly Catholic country so they can expect to see religious stuff,do you think that if we went to say India,Pakistan etc that we should expect them to take down their equivelant of what we stick up ?? No I don't think so,as the saying goes when in Rome .

Ireland may be seen as a catholic country but it isn't.

How many people do you know that go to mass once a week, haven't had sex before marriage etc. Religion has no place in a police force what so ever. I'm Irish an I'm not catholic it's not just people of a differnt race that see a problem with it.

CO19 · 19-07-2008 03:12PM

I'm not saying leave them up to show what the religion of the country is I'm saying why should we take them down incase it might offend someone from another religion/country cause it's not like they don't know what country their in and should expect to see religious items at some point it'd be like me saying i don't believe in any god and going to another country and seeing crosses etc up in places and saying take them down cause I don't believe in any god so it's offending me and considering that the govt works under a catholic ethos so to speak I think that's why they'll be left up in public institutions like police stations etc.
And if most of the officers at a particular station are religious they might want those type of things to be up

keen · 19-07-2008 03:18PM

CO19 wrote: »

I'm not saying leave them up to show what the religion of the country is I'm saying why should we take them down incase it might offend someone from another religion/country cause it's not like they don't know what country their in and should expect to see religious items at some point it'd be like me saying i don't believe in any god and going to another country and seeing crosses etc up in places and saying take them down cause I don't believe in any god so it's offending me and considering that the govt works under a catholic ethos so to speak I think that's why they'll be left up in public institutions like police stations etc.
And if most of the officers at a particular station are religious they might want those type of things to be up

So lets say ten officers are catholic and 11 are muslim, should we replace catholic religious art with muslim seen as muslims are in the majority?

It's a police station not a home, I don't agree with religion coming into any part of a police force, Should muslims be allowed to wear turbans instead of a police hat?

JimiTime · 19-07-2008 03:31PM

While your at it, you may as well rethink the serpent on the pole logo too. Its a reference to Moses and the copper serpent. Some people have too much time on their hands IMO.

JimiTime · 19-07-2008 03:33PM

keen wrote: »

Should muslims Sikhs be allowed to wear turbans instead of a police hat?

Fixed that for ye.

CO19 · 19-07-2008 03:33PM

Look we could go on and on about it forever in my opinion no they shouldn't be made take them down incase it offends some one from another religion,regardless of whether most of the people in this country are religious like they used to be back in the day most would claim to be catholic whether they go to mass,obide by the catholic churches rules etc or not and also the govt is a catholic govt and is why I'm saying that people can't be expecting not to see crosses etc up in govt institutions.
So should we take them down in our schools too ?

Jesus Wept · 19-07-2008 04:24PM

CO19 wrote: »

So should we take them down in our schools too ?

Yes.

yayamark · 19-07-2008 04:35PM

keen wrote: »

Ireland may be seen as a catholic country but it isn't.

How many people do you know that go to mass once a week, haven't had sex before marriage etc.

Ahem! *Put hand up in the air*

CO19 · 19-07-2008 04:58PM

The-Rigger wrote: »

Yes.

I think we should also change the colour of our flag too incase all the foreigners living here get upset that where they come from their colours aren't included in it too

.

keen · 19-07-2008 05:05PM

JimiTime wrote: »

Fixed that for ye.

Fair play, whatever the religion the point remains the same.

yayamark wrote: »

Ahem! *Put hand up in the air*

I'm not saying there's no practicing catholics, I asked CO19 how many he knew.

keen · 19-07-2008 05:08PM

CO19 wrote: »

I think we should also change the colour of our flag too incase all the foreigners living here get upset that where they come from their colours aren't included in it too .

Why are you turning it into a race issue? I thought the debate was about religion?

jhegarty · 19-07-2008 05:15PM

I presume you will also want Christmas tress banned as well....

If I walked into a police station in dubai I would have no problem with seeing a muslin symbol on the wall... if would have no problem with a Hindu symbol on a Indian hospital...

why should Ireland be any different ?

CO19 · 19-07-2008 05:23PM

keen wrote: »

Why are you turning it into a race issue? I thought the debate was about religion?

Race issue

we're talking about 'Visitors' to police stations here so I'm presuming that most of these 'Visitors' will be foreign if they are to be offended etc by seeing the cross and other religious items.

And I know a fair few people that go to mass on a Sunday and the likes

CO19 · 19-07-2008 05:27PM

jhegarty wrote: »

I presume you will also want Christmas tress banned as well....

If I walked into a police station in dubai I would have no problem with seeing a muslin symbol on the wall... if would have no problem with a Hindu symbol on a Indian hospital...

why should Ireland be any different ?

Exactly what I'm saying;) but because we're in Ireland and are generally an over the top with trying to be PC country all the time that it's the expected thing these days that we're to jump when other people from different religions etc say so if they don't like they way the Irish do things in Ireland.

keen · 19-07-2008 05:32PM

It's nothing got to do with being PC, there's no place for religion in a public service enviroment imo.

CO19 · 19-07-2008 05:51PM

Fair enough

,personally I don't think that it matters whether there is or isn't any crosses etc up in public places like a police station but I strongly agree with not taking them down if they are up in some places especially just so not to offend someone from another religion which I can't see how it would offend in the first place to be honest

that's their problem if they get offened by items from our religion, anyway unless they can cause some sort of health&safety issue by being up then no in my opinion they should be left up if they're up in the first place

Fyr.Fytr · 19-07-2008 06:26PM

If its a cross or a picture and people are getting offened then wow they're easily offended, should we remove electricity, just incase an amish person gets the hump??

Its hardly the biggest problem facing AGS at the moment is it?

deadwood · 19-07-2008 06:27PM

I don't think we should concern ourselves with what they do or don't do abroad. Nothing would move on if we'll only take ours down when they do the same in Muslim (e.g.) countries.
Not only do we need to be objective but need to be seen to be objective.
This isn't about offending Muslims. It's about providing an objective service.
Just because these pictures etc are there for years, doesn't make them suitable. I'm sure there have been Page 3 posters and worse in locker rooms for years but nobody thinks this is appropriate now, do they?

deadwood · 19-07-2008 06:31PM

Fyr.Fytr wrote: »

If its a cross or a picture and people are getting offened then wow they're easily offended, should we remove electricity, just incase an amish person gets the hump??

Its hardly the biggest problem facing AGS at the moment is it?

Not the biggest problem by a long shot Fytr. Just an issue i'm interested in, the same way others are interested in a gas-powered, long range 456round/minute non lethal pepper tazer gpmg....or something.:)

sunnyjim · 19-07-2008 06:36PM

Not being smart here, but are you Garda, deadwood?

Wishbone Ash · 19-07-2008 06:43PM

Fyr.Fytr wrote: »

should we remove electricity, just incase an amish person gets the hump??

....or zips in the garda uniform. AFAIK they find zips offensive.

...or perhaps we should provide a rail outside to tie the pony and trap to just in case an Amish person wishes to visit the station.

deadwood · 19-07-2008 06:47PM

sunnyjim wrote: »

Not being smart here, but are you Garda, deadwood?

Yup.

axer · 19-07-2008 06:57PM

Symbols such as the sacret heart and crucifixes have no place in the likes of a garda station unless it is in a private office. It is intimidating to both non-catholic visitors and employees. Same goes for schools too. Would other religons be allowed to put their religous symbols on the wall?
Btw im irish and not a catholic by defection.

Traumadoc · 19-07-2008 07:00PM

JimiTime wrote: »

While your at it, you may as well rethink the serpent on the pole logo too. Its a reference to Moses and the copper serpent. Some people have too much time on their hands IMO.

I thought it was the rod of Asclepius? and has nothing to do with Moses.

deadwood · 19-07-2008 07:08PM

sunnyjim wrote: »

Not being smart here, but are you Garda, deadwood?

Why do you ask, by the way? Not being defensive.:D

Wishbone Ash · 19-07-2008 07:28PM

axer wrote: »

Symbols such as the sacret heart and crucifixes have no place in the likes of a garda station unless it is in a private office. It is intimidating to both non-catholic visitors and employees

How is it intimidating?

I find firearms much more intimidating but I wouldn't expect polices in other countries to remove them to suit me. I also find dogs and horses intimidating so perhaps the Gardai should disband the mounted and canine units.

Jesus wasn't a Roman catholic BTW!

How do you manage in the USA with "In God we trust" on the banknotes?

Religious Symbols - Time to take them down?

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