Any cops out there?

My 2cents is that it's very difficult to generalise about a profession. I fact, it's practically impossible.

The problems is, though, that so so many people have negative experiences with the gardai.

Most of my peers and several members of my family have been treated pretty shabbily by the gardai, for no good reason. Rudeness seems to be a huge problem with them.

They stopped me one day, just a routine search for drugs. This is pretty common in tallaght. I don't mind it, to be honest. I think that kind of thing can be pretty proactive.

But they were so rude to me. Two of them stopped me with big sour heads on them and just said "so, where are you hiding your drugs?".

Then when they searched me without saying a word to me, they found nothing and just said "go on your way then" pretty aggressively, as if I was lucky to be let go!. I replied "That's quite alright, no need to apologise" and yer man went ape.

Again, it's a single incident, and it involved 2 members of the force. But I know a hell of a lot of people who have had similiar problems. So, when I tell me mates about it...instead of going "ah they're not all like that...this 1 garda helped me with problem X", they are more likely to say "I had exactly the same problem".

So, I do wonder about the gardai. I have very little trust in them. But I'm generalising. But for some reason I've foud it pretty easy to justify that in my head, rightly or wrongly.

I think, whether or not they're a good police force, they're losing the PR battle with the public.

Reams of paperwork takes away from accountability, thats the whole point.
As long as the paperworks correct, no-ones accountable.

I know 4 people who applied to become Gardai. 2 are now full members of the Garda Siochana, 1 was accepted and didn't go through with it and 1, despite 3 attempts, didn't get in. On the basis of these 4 people I've come to the conclusion that the selection process is seriously flawed. The one lad who would've made a decent Garda was rejected 3 times. The one who was accepted and backed out decided the hours weren't sociable enough and he didn't want to cut his hair. The two lads who made it are wasters more interested in flashing their badge to skip the queue at Copper Face Jacks than policing their areas.

These 2 boys would be the stereotypical new breed of Garda; lazy and not up to the job. To compensate for this they pick on the easy targets. If they see a couple of dodgy looking scangers passing a package between them on a street corner and a few half respectable looking lads having a can on their way out for the night, by their own admission, they'll approach the lads having cans as it's an easier way of being seen to be doing something. They're the sort that get so many people's backs up about the Gardai. The Gardai turn away thousands of people every year. Surely some of those they'e turning away would be better suited. The recruitment process needs to be examined in detail.

I'm not saying it's an easy job. I wouldn't enjoy approaching junkies on a street corner but they've signed up for it. Again, I'll stress that I place the overall blame on the recruitment process. A friends father, who is in his early fifties, recently took early retirement after becoming so disillusioned with the entire thing.

Up until a couple of years ago, when I heard someone complaining about the Gardai, I thought they were just whingers. But a bit more exposure to them (particularly through knowing some) has made me change my tune. A lot of people who go for it do simply go for the solid job and steady income. Sure, they won't become millionaires but the lads I know that have joined weren't going to be rich anyway. They've guaranteed themselves a job for life with a some handy perks and a similar pay structure to what they would've been earning. Someone posted a table of Garda pay structures earlier. This doesn't take into account OT which can bump up the salary heavily. Those earnings are based on your typical 40 hour week. I work in an office on a salary. If I'm busy I stay until 8 or 9 but I certainly don't receive OT for each hour I'm there after 5pm. When one of my mates went in for a chat at the local station after being accepted the Garda he was dealing with was talking up the job and told him within 2 years, with a bit of OT, he'll be on 40k. They'll never be rich but there's a reason 10,000 people apply for the Gardai each year. If people think that it's because they want to serve their community then they're very, very, naive.

Also, as a matter of interest I'd like to see the demographics with regards to third level educated gardai. I'd say a fair few of them are from more rural backgrounds where there aren't as many jobs to be had. Out of the 4 applicants I know the only one who has a third level education from Sligo IT and the chances of securing a good job locally weren't brilliant unless he left home so he became a garda. For the record, the only reason he got in was through connections in his local GAA club also who didn't want him to leave the parish. Backwards Ireland strikes again.

Karlitosway, I'm not sure that most people think that it's easy to do the job of a garda well.

I think the problems is

A) a LOT of people have negative experiences with the gardai. This seems to be most common in Ireland. I lived in the UK for about 8 years. In Scotland, I had a dickhead copper threatening to arrest me one night in A+E because I wouldn't tell her what was wrong with a prisoner they'd brought in. I told her it was confidential. She said if I didn't tell her she'd arrest me. I told her to go ahead an arrest me. BUT, because I had so many good experiences with the police in the UK, I could see that it was one dickhead in a force that was mostly made up of good guys. When I worked in new Zealand I had a few interactions with the police, and they were so friendly. I've no idea if they were any good at their job, but they acted in such a way that I trusted them.

A lot of people seem to know people who've been recruited into the gardai who probably shouldn't have been. I only know 2 guys who've been recruited. One is one of my best friends, but he's an out and out racist. We stopped arguing about it years ago, because that's the way he is. He also has an outrageous temper on him. He's now a garda. The other guy is proper dodgy. Total bad news in so many ways. But he's never been caught doing anything, so in fairness a criminal check won't have picked up anything.

GerM wrote: »

Karlitosway,
Turning a blind eye to a crime and dealing with something else because you're intimidated would suggest you're in the wong line of work. To suggest a crime is a crime is unrealistic. Is drinking in public equal to dealing drugs? Is littering the same as assault?

I never said I was intimidated by dealing with criminals. My point was the greater good for the public in general not for me, specifically the old woman that gets mugged by a junkie because I took his heroin off him. Your arguement by comparing level of crime is the same old same old. Lines have been drawn and laws made. Should I ignore littering because someone somewhere is being assaulted? Underage drinkers let off so I can try and find a drug dealer? You want me too enforce the laws that you want me to but your priorities arent everyones. Gardai and all police the world over police and enforce ALL laws. Specifically you do the job in front of you.

As Gay Byrne said recently, theres no way to record how many crimes were not commited or car crashes avoided because of police action. For example, In Store street there was over 500 people charged with carrying a weapon. For starters that suggests that Gardai are working hard just not being seen by people posting here. Let me put this too you, how many robberies or assaults were NOT commited as a result of these arrests?

GerM wrote: »

I'm not complaining about my job. I love it. But it was more in response to people being adamant that gardai aren't particularly well paid. With respect to OT policy they are well looked after in comparison to private sector employees. I work bank holidays and go in at weekends. It's part and parcel of a lot of jobs in the private sector if you want to be successful and move upwards. I've a decent basic salary so I'm ok with this. If people get well compensated for this in the public sector they should be aware that they've no right to complain. As far as I'm concerned it makes the poor pay argument that people have been employing redundant. They make a decent living from the job.

Good for you, so why are you so interested in what other people earn? If your happy in your job and have no desire to be a Garda then why not leave it at that? OT is a legal requirement for people that are paid by the hour compared to salary based. my point being, you chose your career knowing the working hours and wages so complaining that Gardai get OT is nonsense to be honest. Besides, if your willing to work an extra 20 hours a week when your needed, why shouldnt you get paid for it? Must also say, considering what I and my friends go through and have gone through I dont consider myself well looked after. Whats a life worth? Theres mental and physical damage caused from being a Garda. Not just to Gardai but a lot of emergency services. Let me ask you an honest question, would you do my job? If the answer is no then really the pays obviously not enough to entice you.

GerM wrote: »

The lad I know who didn't want to leave his rural area is being looked after. He's an intercounty footballer and strings were pulled left, right and centre for him. I don't want to give away too much info but his local station is just over 30miles from his home so obviously the 50mile rule can be bent for the right candidate.

Only your word to take for that but 30 miles if not amazingly close to home. If this story is true then fair enough, Im annoyed with you considering how many Gardai are stationed 100 or 200 miles away from family and have very good reasons for needing to be closer to home.

GerM wrote: »

I've no desire to be a garda. I said above I don't think it's an easy job. I wouldn't enjoy approaching scum and dealing with them so I didn't sign up for it. Those that did need to realise that's what their job entails. I'd like to reiterate that the main point of my post was to highlight that the recruitment process needs to come under scrutiny. If they can't do the above then the recruiters chose the wrong candidate. We're willing to put an inferior candidate policing our streets and sacrifice our level of safety because he's a handy footballer. Says a lot.

Two points, A. The money is not enough evidently. B, Agreed, do you think I want to work with someone that wont back me up in a tight corner? Theres no recruitment system without flaws. Army has recruited psychopaths. Police has recruited power hungry thugs but lets also remember that civil servants, nurses, doctors, priests, accountants, lawyers and just about every job under the sun has had criminals, killers and rapists in their midst at some stage.

chalad07 wrote: »

Of course we need turn to gaurds in times of need. But should that mean we excuse all the negative things, just because they sometimes do their jobs. I know the guards are an easy target, but the sheer number of people who have had personal negative experiences with the cops must say something?

Of course there are exceptions, and their are some outstanding cops, who truly are brilliant at their job, but these people are overlooked because of the ineptitude of the colleagues,

I dont think you can say the 'sheer numbers'. The population runs over 5 million plus the thousands of tourists and immigrants arriving every year. You have about 20 odd posters here complaining and lets be honest, criminals can type and have internet access. Im not pointing the finger but theres undoubtedly people that are just bitter against Gardai for whatever reasons. Maybe its a career criminal, a junkie, little boy racer or just someone who isnt happy they got a ticket and penalty points.

You need to also consider that people are more inclined to speak about a negative experience than a positive. I have more letters sent to my superiors thanking me than I have complaints and which do you think people are more likely to do? Theres also the crimes without victims meaning no one to thank you or speak on your behalf.

I think ineptitude is not accurate, if you wanted to say there are lazy Gardai I wuld agree with you, some born that way whereas others have become burnt out or bitter towards the government and management for whatever reason. Liken it too telesales, you can only smile and be excited about a situation so often on the phone. Gardai on the other hand can only be outraged and genuinely sypathetic so often before we simple become immune to the same story. Obviously theres crimes that will always hit home but your run of the mill pickpocket. I personally cannot be sympathetic anymore, I deal with 20 everyday and in most the first thing that hits me is the persons sheer stupidity in the first place.

Tragedy wrote: »

Guards regularly take confiscated drink home. So many stories. A friend was stopped by a guard because he had 4 cans of heineken, guard asked for ID and was really dissappointed when he found out he wasnt underage. Then offered to swap 8cans of dutch for the Heineken because he didnt like dutch gold.

Yes all these third hand friend of a friend storiea are completely true. No way to verify them nor is the poster actually given a person story so that just goes to show how desperate some people are to badmouth.

As for the cans, yeah I do this all the time. Theres nothing I like more that drinkning some cheap piss thats been handled by some grubby git down a laneway all night. Ah magic!

Still, have to wonder why it is then that Gardai can be seen pouring out cans on the swide of oconnell street every friday and saturday night.

Oh and what is it you think should be done with cans taken from a minor? Wait until hes 18 and give them back?

chalad07 wrote: »

I'm def uncomfortable with the generalizations being made (myself included) but i still cant help it. If the guards arnt as bad as what people on here are saying, then why do so many people have bad words to say about them? Is everyone being unreasonable?

For instance even if it was 50/50 between good eggs and bad eggs, that is still a huge ammount of unprofessional cops out there (and i think 50/50 is being generous)In any jobs i've worked in the are normally only a very small ammount of arseholes, but with the guards it seems inproportionate.

I've noticed the guys defending the guards have not mentioned anything about the fact that an awful lot of guards display some level of corruption (helping friends etc). I think this is because it's so common as to not even register any more.

A, Disgruntled people post a lot to air their grievances, happy people rarely bother.

B, Whats an asshole? Is it the guy that gave you a ticket or told you to cop on when you were dancing on top of a telephone box or slagging the staff in McDonalds? Not you personally but do you see my point? Most people deal with Gardai because of a negative scenario. Your in trouble basically. Victime are less likely to speak about what happened because they want to move on a forget it. Then of course, people are slow to admit they were driving like a lunatic, were being a dickhead to the person behind the counter in McDonalds or Spar and heaven forbid the bouncer was right and in your drunken state you were actually fighting and / or hassling people in the nightclub.

C, perhaps because you all like Gardai being able to do this. However please note that its not corruption to let someone off, we have discretion. If we arrested everyone we would be getting even more grief. Talk about a no win situation. Damned when we do and damned if we dont. BTW, I have 2 penalty points and had to cough up for the ticket so forget the BS about getting things 'sorted'.

Johnny Utah wrote: »

I used to have a lot of respect for the Gardai when I was younger, but after a couple of negative experiences with certain members, I have absolutely no respect for them anymore. This is a common problem, and whereas long ago the force was held up on a pedastal, they are rapidly losing respect from the ordinary law-abiding person.

You dont even know a fraction of the population so cant make such a comment. 2007 independent survey showed a 70 to 86% approval rating for the Gardai which disproves your statement.

Johnny Utah wrote: »

The problem with the Gardai, firstly, is that they have an outdated recruitment process. The assessments themselves are actually quite easy, but after this they have background checks and they have to meet with the Super, and often a candidate's success will depend on how many relations are in the job, how good he is at GAA, etc.

Quite easy you say? First off you dont seem to know the full process as you have left out steps. Secondly less than 50% of applicants pass the first stage which is the written test. By the time the interview stage (which has another written test) is done your down to 25% of applicants and only about 10% actually get recruited. if a 90% fail rate is easy I would hate go see hard!

Johnny Utah wrote: »

It's also funny that some (Garda) posters on this thread are trying their best to defend the salarys of GS, whilst it is obvious to me at least that the job of a Garda is a vocation first and foremost. For the record, I think that the Gardai are very well paid, overpaid in fact. In comparison, most third level graduates will only be starting on about 25k-30k. Teachers, nurses for example will be starting on low 30s, and they have a 3/4 year degree behind them. The salary scale shown for the Gardai do not take into account special allowances for being in a particular unit, or OT for example. I know of one Guard who made 90k with overtime, which is lot for someone with no third level qualifications.

Overpaid you say? How much would it take for you to do the job and deal with dirty syringes and lunatics with knives (and an AK47 on Dame street recently)? As dor nurses, hmmm seems nurses are on better pay starting off considering Gardai arent on 30k a year when they begin. You dont go from Templemore to the air unit so your point concerning units is redundant. If you work every hour god sends why shouldnt you be paid for it? Are you suggesting Gardai should be forced into free overtime? has the country gone a 100 years backwards overnight and wiped out workers rights?

Johnny Utah wrote: »

I also heard about one particular station in Cork, which has a way of dealing with drunken trouble-makers who may be visiting the town for the weekend. First, they round up a group of about ten of them, and as they can't be bothered processing them properly, they load up the group in the back of a transit van and bring them for a little drive out the country. The Guards then drop off each trouble-maker, individually, in a completely remote spot, so that the person has a 5-mile walk back to town. Yeah, real professional.

Process them for what? Thinking of commiting a crime? You think we can arrest people because they might cause trouble? Another damned if you do damned if you dont example. Stopped these known troublemakers from assaulting people and smashing the place up but no. we should have waited until after they ahd done that. Whats the bets you would be complaining if that was the case as well?

corkgal1981 wrote: »

I used to live in Germany & I always found the Polizei to be very professional & easy to approach. The Gardai are the opposite! My mother was talking to one recently & she was shocked at the language he used! They seem to let anyone in these days. I have a relative who is a retired bean garda and she said it was totally different years ago in the training college in Tempelogue. There were actually standards back then that had to be reached. Nowadays they're beyond a joke! Im not surprised that young people have no respect for them.

Have you got any actual facts to base this on? Standards have increased in the training compared to 30 years ago. By the way, you speak fondly of the past. This is the same past where criminals were dealt with using a baton instead of a charge sheet and corrupt Gardai framed people. damned if you do damned if you dont example number 3! BTW, The German people may disagree with you
especially around mayday.

Add: Sorry for spelling, too long a post to correct them all

Um, yes. Sisters boyfriend was a guard, as were two more of his circle of friends, they didnt try hide the fact they(and we to be fair, he didnt mind sharing) were drinking confiscated booze?

It isnt a third hand story, and he turned out to be a psycho stalker piece of **** for what its worth!