Johnny Utah wrote: » I've never been charged/arrested. I don't have any penalty points either, thanks. Why do you automatically jump to such a conclusion? Do you not realise that perhaps ordinary law-abiding citizens may be losing respect for GS? I don't think Karlito was pinpointing you as any of the above but merely saying that criminals and the disgruntled have access to the Internet and air their grievances about the AGS while only giving one side of the story. Johnny Utah wrote: » But some of the stories here are true..... there's no smoke without fire. Again as above only one side of the story. How many people who have posted have actually said they did commit an offence? Not many Johnny Utah wrote: » Well, you can use statistics/polls to prove anything. Do you know how many people complained to the Garda Ombudsman so far? There have been approx 1000 complaints but how many are frivilous or vexatious we will can only guess. Johnny Utah wrote: » 22 weeks after attestation, a Garda earns 29k, and one year after attestation, a Garda is on 30673. Seeing as attestation takes place during training, it's clear these figures are similar to what a nurse or teacher would earn at the start of their career- the only difference is that they have spent 3 or 4 years studying in college.:p Attestation is only achieved after 1 yr studying and gaining experience and it does take one year to properly know the law. As you have said it takes 3-4 yrs to study to be nurse. They are 2 very different professions so I cannot see the comparision. Johnny Utah wrote: » Well, you could charge them with drunk + disorderly in a public place for one. Are you seriously saying it's okay to throw people in a van, give them a few slaps, and then leave them off in a remote rural area? What would happen if one of these persons was injured/attacked? In order for a person to be prosecuted for drunk & disorderly there would have be sufficient evidence of it. So what is being disorderly to you? Shouting, running up and the road, stripping off of the shirt? We could arrest almost everyone who comes out of a niteclub for that. There is no way to determine in all cases where a person is going to commit an offence. I don't think anyone would condone bring people out to the country and leaving them there.
I don't think Karlito was pinpointing you as any of the above but merely saying that criminals and the disgruntled have access to the Internet and air their grievances about the AGS while only giving one side of the story. Johnny Utah wrote: » But some of the stories here are true..... there's no smoke without fire. Again as above only one side of the story. How many people who have posted have actually said they did commit an offence? Not many Johnny Utah wrote: » Well, you can use statistics/polls to prove anything. Do you know how many people complained to the Garda Ombudsman so far? There have been approx 1000 complaints but how many are frivilous or vexatious we will can only guess. Johnny Utah wrote: » 22 weeks after attestation, a Garda earns 29k, and one year after attestation, a Garda is on 30673. Seeing as attestation takes place during training, it's clear these figures are similar to what a nurse or teacher would earn at the start of their career- the only difference is that they have spent 3 or 4 years studying in college.:p Attestation is only achieved after 1 yr studying and gaining experience and it does take one year to properly know the law. As you have said it takes 3-4 yrs to study to be nurse. They are 2 very different professions so I cannot see the comparision. Johnny Utah wrote: » Well, you could charge them with drunk + disorderly in a public place for one. Are you seriously saying it's okay to throw people in a van, give them a few slaps, and then leave them off in a remote rural area? What would happen if one of these persons was injured/attacked? In order for a person to be prosecuted for drunk & disorderly there would have be sufficient evidence of it. So what is being disorderly to you? Shouting, running up and the road, stripping off of the shirt? We could arrest almost everyone who comes out of a niteclub for that. There is no way to determine in all cases where a person is going to commit an offence. I don't think anyone would condone bring people out to the country and leaving them there.
Johnny Utah wrote: » But some of the stories here are true..... there's no smoke without fire. Again as above only one side of the story. How many people who have posted have actually said they did commit an offence? Not many Johnny Utah wrote: » Well, you can use statistics/polls to prove anything. Do you know how many people complained to the Garda Ombudsman so far? There have been approx 1000 complaints but how many are frivilous or vexatious we will can only guess. Johnny Utah wrote: » 22 weeks after attestation, a Garda earns 29k, and one year after attestation, a Garda is on 30673. Seeing as attestation takes place during training, it's clear these figures are similar to what a nurse or teacher would earn at the start of their career- the only difference is that they have spent 3 or 4 years studying in college.:p Attestation is only achieved after 1 yr studying and gaining experience and it does take one year to properly know the law. As you have said it takes 3-4 yrs to study to be nurse. They are 2 very different professions so I cannot see the comparision. Johnny Utah wrote: » Well, you could charge them with drunk + disorderly in a public place for one. Are you seriously saying it's okay to throw people in a van, give them a few slaps, and then leave them off in a remote rural area? What would happen if one of these persons was injured/attacked? In order for a person to be prosecuted for drunk & disorderly there would have be sufficient evidence of it. So what is being disorderly to you? Shouting, running up and the road, stripping off of the shirt? We could arrest almost everyone who comes out of a niteclub for that. There is no way to determine in all cases where a person is going to commit an offence. I don't think anyone would condone bring people out to the country and leaving them there.
Again as above only one side of the story. How many people who have posted have actually said they did commit an offence? Not many Johnny Utah wrote: » Well, you can use statistics/polls to prove anything. Do you know how many people complained to the Garda Ombudsman so far? There have been approx 1000 complaints but how many are frivilous or vexatious we will can only guess. Johnny Utah wrote: » 22 weeks after attestation, a Garda earns 29k, and one year after attestation, a Garda is on 30673. Seeing as attestation takes place during training, it's clear these figures are similar to what a nurse or teacher would earn at the start of their career- the only difference is that they have spent 3 or 4 years studying in college.:p Attestation is only achieved after 1 yr studying and gaining experience and it does take one year to properly know the law. As you have said it takes 3-4 yrs to study to be nurse. They are 2 very different professions so I cannot see the comparision. Johnny Utah wrote: » Well, you could charge them with drunk + disorderly in a public place for one. Are you seriously saying it's okay to throw people in a van, give them a few slaps, and then leave them off in a remote rural area? What would happen if one of these persons was injured/attacked? In order for a person to be prosecuted for drunk & disorderly there would have be sufficient evidence of it. So what is being disorderly to you? Shouting, running up and the road, stripping off of the shirt? We could arrest almost everyone who comes out of a niteclub for that. There is no way to determine in all cases where a person is going to commit an offence. I don't think anyone would condone bring people out to the country and leaving them there.
Johnny Utah wrote: » Well, you can use statistics/polls to prove anything. Do you know how many people complained to the Garda Ombudsman so far? There have been approx 1000 complaints but how many are frivilous or vexatious we will can only guess. Johnny Utah wrote: » 22 weeks after attestation, a Garda earns 29k, and one year after attestation, a Garda is on 30673. Seeing as attestation takes place during training, it's clear these figures are similar to what a nurse or teacher would earn at the start of their career- the only difference is that they have spent 3 or 4 years studying in college.:p Attestation is only achieved after 1 yr studying and gaining experience and it does take one year to properly know the law. As you have said it takes 3-4 yrs to study to be nurse. They are 2 very different professions so I cannot see the comparision. Johnny Utah wrote: » Well, you could charge them with drunk + disorderly in a public place for one. Are you seriously saying it's okay to throw people in a van, give them a few slaps, and then leave them off in a remote rural area? What would happen if one of these persons was injured/attacked? In order for a person to be prosecuted for drunk & disorderly there would have be sufficient evidence of it. So what is being disorderly to you? Shouting, running up and the road, stripping off of the shirt? We could arrest almost everyone who comes out of a niteclub for that. There is no way to determine in all cases where a person is going to commit an offence. I don't think anyone would condone bring people out to the country and leaving them there.
There have been approx 1000 complaints but how many are frivilous or vexatious we will can only guess. Johnny Utah wrote: » 22 weeks after attestation, a Garda earns 29k, and one year after attestation, a Garda is on 30673. Seeing as attestation takes place during training, it's clear these figures are similar to what a nurse or teacher would earn at the start of their career- the only difference is that they have spent 3 or 4 years studying in college.:p Attestation is only achieved after 1 yr studying and gaining experience and it does take one year to properly know the law. As you have said it takes 3-4 yrs to study to be nurse. They are 2 very different professions so I cannot see the comparision. Johnny Utah wrote: » Well, you could charge them with drunk + disorderly in a public place for one. Are you seriously saying it's okay to throw people in a van, give them a few slaps, and then leave them off in a remote rural area? What would happen if one of these persons was injured/attacked? In order for a person to be prosecuted for drunk & disorderly there would have be sufficient evidence of it. So what is being disorderly to you? Shouting, running up and the road, stripping off of the shirt? We could arrest almost everyone who comes out of a niteclub for that. There is no way to determine in all cases where a person is going to commit an offence. I don't think anyone would condone bring people out to the country and leaving them there.
Johnny Utah wrote: » 22 weeks after attestation, a Garda earns 29k, and one year after attestation, a Garda is on 30673. Seeing as attestation takes place during training, it's clear these figures are similar to what a nurse or teacher would earn at the start of their career- the only difference is that they have spent 3 or 4 years studying in college.:p Attestation is only achieved after 1 yr studying and gaining experience and it does take one year to properly know the law. As you have said it takes 3-4 yrs to study to be nurse. They are 2 very different professions so I cannot see the comparision. Johnny Utah wrote: » Well, you could charge them with drunk + disorderly in a public place for one. Are you seriously saying it's okay to throw people in a van, give them a few slaps, and then leave them off in a remote rural area? What would happen if one of these persons was injured/attacked? In order for a person to be prosecuted for drunk & disorderly there would have be sufficient evidence of it. So what is being disorderly to you? Shouting, running up and the road, stripping off of the shirt? We could arrest almost everyone who comes out of a niteclub for that. There is no way to determine in all cases where a person is going to commit an offence. I don't think anyone would condone bring people out to the country and leaving them there.
Attestation is only achieved after 1 yr studying and gaining experience and it does take one year to properly know the law. As you have said it takes 3-4 yrs to study to be nurse. They are 2 very different professions so I cannot see the comparision. Johnny Utah wrote: » Well, you could charge them with drunk + disorderly in a public place for one. Are you seriously saying it's okay to throw people in a van, give them a few slaps, and then leave them off in a remote rural area? What would happen if one of these persons was injured/attacked? In order for a person to be prosecuted for drunk & disorderly there would have be sufficient evidence of it. So what is being disorderly to you? Shouting, running up and the road, stripping off of the shirt? We could arrest almost everyone who comes out of a niteclub for that. There is no way to determine in all cases where a person is going to commit an offence. I don't think anyone would condone bring people out to the country and leaving them there.
Johnny Utah wrote: » Well, you could charge them with drunk + disorderly in a public place for one. Are you seriously saying it's okay to throw people in a van, give them a few slaps, and then leave them off in a remote rural area? What would happen if one of these persons was injured/attacked? In order for a person to be prosecuted for drunk & disorderly there would have be sufficient evidence of it. So what is being disorderly to you? Shouting, running up and the road, stripping off of the shirt? We could arrest almost everyone who comes out of a niteclub for that. There is no way to determine in all cases where a person is going to commit an offence. I don't think anyone would condone bring people out to the country and leaving them there.
In order for a person to be prosecuted for drunk & disorderly there would have be sufficient evidence of it. So what is being disorderly to you? Shouting, running up and the road, stripping off of the shirt? We could arrest almost everyone who comes out of a niteclub for that. There is no way to determine in all cases where a person is going to commit an offence. I don't think anyone would condone bring people out to the country and leaving them there.
Karlitosway1978 wrote: » lets be honest, criminals can type and have internet access. Im not pointing the finger but theres undoubtedly people that are just bitter against Gardai for whatever reasons. Maybe its a career criminal, a junkie, little boy racer or just someone who isnt happy they got a ticket and penalty points.I've never been charged/arrested. I don't have any penalty points either, thanks. Why do you automatically jump to such a conclusion? Do you not realise that perhaps ordinary law-abiding citizens may be losing respect for GS? Yes all these third hand friend of a friend storiea are completely true. No way to verify them nor is the poster actually given a person story so that just goes to show how desperate some people are to badmouth.But some of the stories here are true..... there's no smoke without fire. You dont even know a fraction of the population so cant make such a comment. 2007 independent survey showed a 70 to 86% approval rating for the Gardai which disproves your statement.Well, you can use statistics/polls to prove anything. Do you know how many people complained to the Garda Ombudsman so far? Overpaid you say? How much would it take for you to do the job and deal with dirty syringes and lunatics with knives (and an AK47 on Dame street recently)? As dor nurses, hmmm seems nurses are on better pay starting off considering Gardai arent on 30k a year when they begin. You dont go from Templemore to the air unit so your point concerning units is redundant. If you work every hour god sends why shouldnt you be paid for it? Are you suggesting Gardai should be forced into free overtime? has the country gone a 100 years backwards overnight and wiped out workers rights? No, of course I think they should be paid for overtime- Don't be ridiculous. I only gave the above example to counterbalance some of the inaccurate figures quoted by other posters. 22 weeks after attestation, a Garda earns 29k, and one year after attestation, a Garda is on 30673. Seeing as attestation takes place during training, it's clear these figures are similar to what a nurse or teacher would earn at the start of their career- the only difference is that they have spent 3 or 4 years studying in college.:p Process them for what? Thinking of commiting a crime? You think we can arrest people because they might cause trouble? Another damned if you do damned if you dont example. Stopped these known troublemakers from assaulting people and smashing the place up but no. we should have waited until after they ahd done that. Whats the bets you would be complaining if that was the case as well?Well, you could charge them with drunk + disorderly in a public place for one. Are you seriously saying it's okay to throw people in a van, give them a few slaps, and then leave them off in a remote rural area? What would happen if one of these persons was injured/attacked? I'm starting to think you are so delusional it's actually disturbing.
ART6 wrote: » Good post! Your explanations here seem to confirm what I thought when I started this thread. There just aren't enough Gardai to do the job, and by the sounds of it they are far too often wasted on duties that civilians could do just as well. Too few, too much red tape, too little resources. Maybe the frustrations of the job create some of the "idle" ones? Maybe the failing here is not so much in AGS as in government?
chalad07 wrote: » would you not admit that their is an element within the force that shouldn’t be in there? And i know that there is a bad element within every organization, but is it relatively speaking more or less than other places?
Karlitosway1978 wrote: » In the region of 14000 fully attested and serving. Now take away office and backup staff of about 2000. then take away another 1000 for ranks/supervisors that dont patrol. Then you have to consider the positions that dont patrol but are available a such, DDU, ERU, Air support, etc. That runs to at least another 2000. So were down to 9000 actual uniform Gardai in total. Divided into 4 shifts. So thats 2250 working at any time, say 2500 for ease but Im probable over estimating the 'uniform' strenght. Now consider those 2500 are spread across the entire country to cover a population in excess of 5 million. Thats a ratio of 1 Garda to every 2000 people. If even 1% of the population are commiting crime at any given time thats still 1 Garda to tackle 20 active criminals. Going away from these optimal figures, the reality is you then need to consider that during day shifts you will have Gardai in court, Gardai taking statements, interviewing criminals and doing other paperwork such as getting files together for the DPP. Then you have people on holiday or possible even sick. Some places have 1 Garda in the station and thats it. Areas without a dedicated 24 hour station are still evident. Most areas some of which have a high crime level or a high population wil have 1 car. 1 car can only deal with one thing at a time so usually they spend their shift going from 1 call to another without being able to spend any time actually being proactive or chasing up the last call they were just at. I would say we need at least another 6000 put into uniform policing, freeing up office staff which is underway and taking away some of the current things that Gardai currently do that really theres no need for. Silly things like needing a Garda to sign certain forms, going to loud parties which we have no power to deal with, people asleep on a bench which is not a crime to begin with and many others. However thats just my opinion, I havent done any optimal number research
elviscostello wrote: » I agree with all of your long post ... apart from the above. Somebody posted some rubbish about guards in Cork piling drunk people in to a van and leaving them out in the country to walk back in ... on a regular basis.. And the above is your response?! Do you really think that is a good way of dealing with them?!
flanum wrote: » i think the gardai should spend my tax money on trying to catch as many lads in the morning (after a few pints the night before) for "drink driving" as possible! id also like to see lots of gardai that have been done for shoplifting who have put it down to stress and getting away with it while stealing clothes from champion sports.................... i wouldnt say the word mr garda s... b....
Karlitosway1978 wrote: » Process them for what? Thinking of commiting a crime? You think we can arrest people because they might cause trouble? Another damned if you do damned if you dont example. Stopped these known troublemakers from assaulting people and smashing the place up but no. we should have waited until after they ahd done that. Whats the bets you would be complaining if that was the case as well?
bobbysands81 wrote: » Question for Gardai... How many Gardai are currently serving? Do you fellas/gals think there's enough of you? If not, how many more Gardai do you think are needed?
GerM wrote: » Karlitosway, I wasn't referring to you being intimidated but to one of the Gardai I know who admitted he would deal with a less threatening situation and turn a blind eye to more serious activities to ensure less hassle for himself. Of course you shouldn't ignore littering etc. but I was making the point that this particular Garda was stating that he would focus on something trivial if it meant not having to deal with more serious, potentially dangerous activities. The Garda do hell of a lot of good and many of them are pro-active, as you say. However, it's my belief that there is a very large percentage that aren't cut out for the job and were incorrectly recruited. With regards to the earnings I was replying to other people's assertions that Gardai were receiving quite meagre pay which I dispute. I don't begrudge them this. At no point have I complained that they receive this. Of course they're entitled to it. Again, I was simply stating that, when OT is factored in, Gardai make a decent living which previous posters seem to be unaware of. I'm not saying they shouldn't; I'm just informing people. The lad who is posted to a station 30miles away is heavily involved in the GAA, as I said. The coach of his club, who is also on the county selection panel, is a relatively high ranking Garda and called in a couple of favours. As you said, you only have my word to go on but I have no reason to lie. It's not exactly hard to believe. I agree that there are bad elements recruited in every job type but there seems to be a particularly high element in the Gardai. I don't mind the Gardai being heavy handed or ruffling a few feathers; it's the ones that are sheer lazy and got lucky after applying that irk me. They got selected, see it as a handy number and are now happy to pick up a decent wage while doing their best to keep their hands clean. Out of 4 people I know applied, the one lad who would be a thick skinned, tough bastard was repeatedly rejected whilst the 3 jokers who would be a waste of tax money were accepted. You make good points and it's good to see someone arguing the other side educating myself amongst others. I have my opinions but I know the Gardai do a hell of a lot of dirty work that 95% of us would hate to deal with which has become second nature to them. I'm not anti-Garda, just reckon the system has a hell of a lot of improving to do.
dc69 wrote: » Are you joking? A nice public sector job,nice pension,job security and being stupidly overpaid. Takes about a year of training,you dont need any qualifications to speak of to get in. Minimal risk of injury,Drive around busting kids.Yeah,id say the going gets tough pouring drink out of cans and being rude and obnoxious to people. They get the best young people the country has to offer alright:D
and corrupt Gardai framed people
GerM wrote: » Karlitosway, Turning a blind eye to a crime and dealing with something else because you're intimidated would suggest you're in the wong line of work. To suggest a crime is a crime is unrealistic. Is drinking in public equal to dealing drugs? Is littering the same as assault?
GerM wrote: » I'm not complaining about my job. I love it. But it was more in response to people being adamant that gardai aren't particularly well paid. With respect to OT policy they are well looked after in comparison to private sector employees. I work bank holidays and go in at weekends. It's part and parcel of a lot of jobs in the private sector if you want to be successful and move upwards. I've a decent basic salary so I'm ok with this. If people get well compensated for this in the public sector they should be aware that they've no right to complain. As far as I'm concerned it makes the poor pay argument that people have been employing redundant. They make a decent living from the job.
GerM wrote: » The lad I know who didn't want to leave his rural area is being looked after. He's an intercounty footballer and strings were pulled left, right and centre for him. I don't want to give away too much info but his local station is just over 30miles from his home so obviously the 50mile rule can be bent for the right candidate.
GerM wrote: » I've no desire to be a garda. I said above I don't think it's an easy job. I wouldn't enjoy approaching scum and dealing with them so I didn't sign up for it. Those that did need to realise that's what their job entails. I'd like to reiterate that the main point of my post was to highlight that the recruitment process needs to come under scrutiny. If they can't do the above then the recruiters chose the wrong candidate. We're willing to put an inferior candidate policing our streets and sacrifice our level of safety because he's a handy footballer. Says a lot.
chalad07 wrote: » Of course we need turn to gaurds in times of need. But should that mean we excuse all the negative things, just because they sometimes do their jobs. I know the guards are an easy target, but the sheer number of people who have had personal negative experiences with the cops must say something? Of course there are exceptions, and their are some outstanding cops, who truly are brilliant at their job, but these people are overlooked because of the ineptitude of the colleagues,
Tragedy wrote: » Guards regularly take confiscated drink home. So many stories. A friend was stopped by a guard because he had 4 cans of heineken, guard asked for ID and was really dissappointed when he found out he wasnt underage. Then offered to swap 8cans of dutch for the Heineken because he didnt like dutch gold.
chalad07 wrote: » I'm def uncomfortable with the generalizations being made (myself included) but i still cant help it. If the guards arnt as bad as what people on here are saying, then why do so many people have bad words to say about them? Is everyone being unreasonable? For instance even if it was 50/50 between good eggs and bad eggs, that is still a huge ammount of unprofessional cops out there (and i think 50/50 is being generous)In any jobs i've worked in the are normally only a very small ammount of arseholes, but with the guards it seems inproportionate. I've noticed the guys defending the guards have not mentioned anything about the fact that an awful lot of guards display some level of corruption (helping friends etc). I think this is because it's so common as to not even register any more.
Johnny Utah wrote: » I used to have a lot of respect for the Gardai when I was younger, but after a couple of negative experiences with certain members, I have absolutely no respect for them anymore. This is a common problem, and whereas long ago the force was held up on a pedastal, they are rapidly losing respect from the ordinary law-abiding person.
Johnny Utah wrote: » The problem with the Gardai, firstly, is that they have an outdated recruitment process. The assessments themselves are actually quite easy, but after this they have background checks and they have to meet with the Super, and often a candidate's success will depend on how many relations are in the job, how good he is at GAA, etc.
Johnny Utah wrote: » It's also funny that some (Garda) posters on this thread are trying their best to defend the salarys of GS, whilst it is obvious to me at least that the job of a Garda is a vocation first and foremost. For the record, I think that the Gardai are very well paid, overpaid in fact. In comparison, most third level graduates will only be starting on about 25k-30k. Teachers, nurses for example will be starting on low 30s, and they have a 3/4 year degree behind them. The salary scale shown for the Gardai do not take into account special allowances for being in a particular unit, or OT for example. I know of one Guard who made 90k with overtime, which is lot for someone with no third level qualifications.
Johnny Utah wrote: » I also heard about one particular station in Cork, which has a way of dealing with drunken trouble-makers who may be visiting the town for the weekend. First, they round up a group of about ten of them, and as they can't be bothered processing them properly, they load up the group in the back of a transit van and bring them for a little drive out the country. The Guards then drop off each trouble-maker, individually, in a completely remote spot, so that the person has a 5-mile walk back to town. Yeah, real professional.
corkgal1981 wrote: » I used to live in Germany & I always found the Polizei to be very professional & easy to approach. The Gardai are the opposite! My mother was talking to one recently & she was shocked at the language he used! They seem to let anyone in these days. I have a relative who is a retired bean garda and she said it was totally different years ago in the training college in Tempelogue. There were actually standards back then that had to be reached. Nowadays they're beyond a joke! Im not surprised that young people have no respect for them.
chalad07 wrote: » I'm def uncomfortable with the generalizations being made (myself included) but i still cant help it. If the guards arnt as bad as what people on here are saying, then why do so many people have bad words to say about them? Is everyone being unreasonable? For instance even if it was 50/50 between good eggs and bad eggs, that is still a huge ammount of unprofessional cops out there (and i think 50/50 is being generous)In any jobs i've worked in the are normally only a very small ammount of arseholes, but with the guards it seems inproportionate.I've noticed the guys defending the guards have not mentioned anything about the fact that an awful lot of guards display some level of corruption (helping friends etc). I think this is because it's so common as to not even register any more.
dc69 wrote: » I dont believe you were on that within 2 years but I know its well achievable within about 6.
MizzLolly wrote: » Quick... stick in the 'of'... quick..quick! Seriously though, everyone has oviously had different experiences with the Gardai. I've never had a particularily bad experience with them so I don't feel it would be fair for me to pass judgement either way. I have had two seperate experiences with two female guards, in both cases they were rude and unhelpful. That's all I can really say from a personal point of view. I do see them pretty often walking around town though. Can't be easy. (assuming that they are actually doing what we expect them to be doing)
