For the politically correct (challenged) when do we say 'stop'

tallaght01 · 27-05-2008 10:40AM

dodgyme wrote: »

Most of the asylum seekers in Ireland are from nigeria. Nigeria didnt have direct transport links to ireland until recently becuase of the demand created by the ongoing scam. What they put up with in there own country was being part of a corrupt middle class cross section with access to the internet and information to manipulate their way into Ireland. The people who suffer any humanitarian issues in Africa dont make there through the ariports of europe to good old ireland because the other countries arent good enough???. It is an organised scam and has to be by its nature. I spent long enough in nigeria to see it for myself and have posted before on this as have other people.

Human rights watch have different ideas about Nigeria. In a country where the police are thought to have killed up to 10,000 people since 2000, its' a bit much to say that there's not a human rights issue. Also, remember that people run from political violence and ethnic violence, which is not just perpetrated by the government.

Nigeriand and Romanians make up most asylum seekers in ireland. But bear in mind that we've only given asylum to about 8000 people since 2000. Those who apply for asylum and are unsuccessful should (mostly) be sent back, but it shouldn't stop us having an asylum system. Sure the wealthier are more likely to make it this far. Many of the poorer asylum seekers end up in South Africa. But many poor souls get put in a lorry and are dumped out wherever it stops.

We also take refugees from Iraq, Afghanistan, Sudan, Somalia etc. We should be very proud of that. 8000 isn't that much, is it?

MIN2511 · 27-05-2008 10:41AM

Mahatma coat wrote: »

I live in australia luv, n I'm Legal.

dodgyme said it well there.

why should they get priority,seriously do you believe all the guff that they spout?

again, why cant they work?

I presume you are Irish?
Why did you leave Ireland?

tallaght01 · 27-05-2008 10:42AM

Dudess wrote: »

Ah... people living under a dictator should just stand up to the dictator and his bully boys! Nothing like a bit of dictator-stand-uppage to get the auld adrenalin going.

LOL the Kurds demonstrated just how easy that is

latenia · 27-05-2008 10:45AM

I think I've read the words 'pc do-gooder,' 'bleeding heart,' and 'liberal pinkos' more in the last two weeks than in the entire history of boards. It's as if the young people of Ireland have turned into middle-England Daily Mail readers overnight.

Dudess · 27-05-2008 10:46AM

Mahatma coat wrote: »

how about the people in our own country who are having a hard go of it, shouldnt we help them first?

Get the fukk back so and work with the poor here.

I've no issue with 'foreigners' just the ones who want everything for free cos boo hoo they've had a hard life.

No, just the non-white, non English speaking ones. You know asylum seekers aren't entitled to work anyway.

there are a myriad of places they could go that would be safer than where they are and have a comparable standard of living to the country they left, but no they all want to go to the 'West'

Why is that a problem for you? Cuz... you're a racist? Yep, that's it. And you'd have no problem with whites coming from Zimbabwe or South Africa to the west.

Mahatma coat wrote: »

why should they get priority,seriously do you believe all the guff that they spout?

You can't fake trauma and desperation.

Dudess · 27-05-2008 10:48AM

tallaght01 wrote: »

LOL the Kurds demonstrated just how easy that is

Ah but they're not black so they're gentle people. Blacks are so violent they'd have no problem doing so - even just one black person could pull it off. Anyway, nobody should have any respect for you if you don't stand up and fight dictatorships that practise limb-hacking... etc.

LOL at astounding stupidity!

gollyitsolly · 27-05-2008 10:53AM

I most certainly will vote NO and I may well be the population of one. But dont tell me we are better off because of the EU. In my opinion the whole point if it is to create a superpower to equal the other ones .The individual countries will all lose their uniqueness and customs and local laws. An army does not thrive on individuality. Ireland is only a small country in comparision to Germany,France, Britain who all have a bigger say in EU politics. We are only being built up to provide a back door to defend the union when the time comes. Isnt Shannon the first stop between us and the US? It may sound extreme and ridiculous right now but thats my view.

invincibleirish · 27-05-2008 11:52AM

Let me recommend some John Locke for the haters out there. It really isnt as easy as ban foreigners and 'send then home', alas life and human beings are more complex then that....

invincibleirish · 27-05-2008 11:58AM

Xavi6 wrote: »

Whatever about the OP, I'm anything but anti-immigrant and think it's great having a healthy mix of cultures. However I do feel it is unhealthy to have such segregation in Ireland, or any country for that matter. As I said, I've seen it over here and the same thing is slowly creeping in back home. You can't honestly tell me that that's a good situation.

Its ok Xavi6 im not accusing you of being a racist, segregation is best avoided by integration, and while a Government can do so much vis a vis laws and the like really its up to all sides in a multi cultural society (like Ireland supposedly is) to respect one another.

Rb · 27-05-2008 01:22PM

Dudess, you seem to have a soft heart for the aul asylum seekers. Fair enough, but what's your take on the whole "nearest safe country" part of asylum seeking?

I mean, think of all the nice, safe countries between Ireland and Africa, yet they come here?

Somehow I wouldn't believe a lot of the things they say, if they can skip their way over here, it's for much different reasons than to get away from oppression.

tallaght01 · 27-05-2008 01:30PM

Rb wrote: »

Dudess, you seem to have a soft heart for the aul asylum seekers. Fair enough, but what's your take on the whole "nearest safe country" part of asylum seeking?

I mean, think of all the nice, safe countries between Ireland and Africa, yet they come here?

Somehow I wouldn't believe a lot of the things they say, if they can skip their way over here, it's for much different reasons than to get away from oppression.

Well, presumably the people traffickers aren't like a bus company. I'm not sure that you can knock on teh lid of your container and the guy will stop and drop you off at the nearest border. But remember that African countries have huge amounts of refugess entering them, too. It's not like all refugees hit Europe.

MIN2511 · 27-05-2008 01:34PM

Do ye think every African here is an asylum seeker?

Immigration is the key topic if i am right....

I am black African and i aint seeking asylum... So what do people like me who came to Ireland, sat the leaving cert, good ol college and now working supposed to do?

JangoFett · 27-05-2008 01:35PM

Yeah, nearest safe country my arse. Probably the nearest country with a soft stance on asylum seekers and refugees and a soft government. Also, if SOME of them were so poor and everyone hated them and took everything from them why are they covered in head to toe designer clothing and jewellery? This is a small percentage of immigrants to Ireland, I worked with several of them who dressed like anyone else, but these guys dressed like movie stars....they aren't escaping oppression, no way man!!

This is obviously a small amount of people, I'm not tarring people with the same brush, I'm just curious about this minority of these people who claim to be seeking asylum.

Caoimhín · 27-05-2008 01:39PM

MIN2511 wrote: »

Do ye think every African here is an asylum seeker?

Of course not, that would be absurd.

tallaght01 · 27-05-2008 01:41PM

JangoFett wrote: »

Yeah, nearest safe country my arse. Probably the nearest country with a soft stance on asylum seekers and refugees and a soft government. Also, if SOME of them were so poor and everyone hated them and took everything from them why are they covered in head to toe designer clothing and jewellery? This is a small percentage of immigrants to Ireland, I worked with several of them who dressed like anyone else, but these guys dressed like movie stars....they aren't escaping oppression, no way man!!

This is obviously a small amount of people, I'm not tarring people with the same brush, I'm just curious about this minority of these people who claim to be seeking asylum.

well min2511 has explained that. ONly 8000 or so people have been given asylum in Ireland since 2000. So many many many of the people you're talking about in your daily mail tone are possibly not asylum seekers.

People in Ireland really need to differentiate between immigrants and asylum seekers.

Rb · 27-05-2008 01:47PM

MIN2511 wrote: »

Do ye think every African here is an asylum seeker?

No absolutely not and I apologise if it appeared that way in my above post.

MIN2511 wrote:

I am black African and i aint seeking asylum... So what do people like me who came to Ireland, sat the leaving cert, good ol college and now working supposed to do?

Find a partner, buy a house, have some kids?

MIN2511 · 27-05-2008 01:51PM

Rb wrote: »

No absolutely not and I apologise if it appeared that way in my above post.

Find a partner, buy a house, have some kids?

Working on that

Too young now... So instead having fun

What's life without fun eh?

Blisterman · 27-05-2008 02:07PM

I was reading the other day, that there are now 35,000 poles living in Ireland, down from a peak of 70,000, so it's actually decreased.

Also, it's not exactly like Ireland is overcrowded. The population is half what it was before the famine, and could accomadate much more. England has a population density several times that of Ireland, for example.

I do think that Ireland should be discriminating in who it lets in. We want people who are going to work hard, and try to integrate with Irish society. However, I think we should lend a hand to those escaping from countries where they're being persecuted. Someone mentioned that we should be more concerned about the poor people in Ireland. Well, there's a massive difference between what poor people in Ireland are going through, and what people, in the likes of Zimbabwe are going through. That's real poverty.

Rb · 27-05-2008 02:10PM

MIN2511 wrote: »

Working on that
Too young now... So instead having fun What's life without fun eh?

Life without fun is

not fun

MIN2511 · 27-05-2008 02:12PM

tallaght01 wrote: »

well min2511 has explained that. ONly 8000 or so people have been given asylum in Ireland since 2000. So many many many of the people you're talking about in your daily mail tone are possibly not asylum seekers.

People in Ireland really need to differentiate between immigrants and asylum seekers.

How would you differentiate an asylum seeker from a non asylum seeker? It's not possible

Dudess · 27-05-2008 02:22PM

Well for a start, wouldn't a genuine asylum seeker be an extremely scared, traumatised person? I don't think you'd need to be a psychiatrist to spot that.

I'm not denying there are gonna be scam artists trying to pull the wool over our eyes, but why should the genuine people's chances be lessened because of them? I hate this almost pathological need to be cynical.

waxon-waxoff · 27-05-2008 05:02PM

Whenever anybody dares to mention immigrants in Ireland they are labeled as racist and bigots. We need to get past this if we can discuss the real issues in an open and unbiased way.

The Irish emigrants that went to the US and UK are not a correct comparison with what we see occuring in Ireland today. They had to work to survive. Irish people wanted to integrate into their new communities and become Americans, Australians or English. Most immigrants here are from countries with totally different cultures to ours and they dont try to integrate.

The Africans and Asians are here to stay because they came after hearing about how wealthy Ireland is and all the money you get off the Government for having kids and not having to work. Remember the stories a few years back about African women arriving hours before giving birth What happens to them next, a free apartment and more money and benefits for every child you have. You can even get a grant to buy a car by claiming you need it to go to church. Thats the only reason they chose Ireland. Theres an internet cafe in Stonybatter run by Africans where the home page on the pc's is an Irish Government website outlining socal welfare benefits. When you are dealing with a country as corrupt as Nigeria its impossible to check somebodys claims of being tortured or imprisoned for political or religious reasons. Some things that are not allowed in a country like Ireland are cultural norms in other countries and can be used to back up an asylum claim if it suits.

The social welfare system needs to be completely overhauled and become a safety net for temporarily unemployed net rather than a career choice. Thousands of Irish have abused the system for years and we turned a blind eye. We cant be surprised when non-nationals do the same. Europe needs to drop the do-gooder policys and follow the US example where you work or you have nothing.

Chips Lovell · 27-05-2008 06:06PM

It's the usual After Hours immigration thread. Long on rhetoric, but short on research and statistics.

marcsignal · 27-05-2008 06:32PM

I've said it before, I don't care if my neighbour is a Gay Black Roma Jewish Catholic Protestant Muslim Mormon Quaker, from the planet Venus, with 2 Heads and 4 Arses. That's none of my damn business anyway. I will gladly show that person deserved respect, and hope that respect is reciprocated.

If he/she wants to work and contribute ? Happy Days

if he/she doesn't ? then Bye Bye !

waxon-waxoff wrote: »

The social welfare system needs to be completely overhauled and become a safety net for temporarily unemployed net rather than a career choice. Thousands of Irish have abused the system for years and we turned a blind eye. We cant be surprised when non-nationals do the same. Europe needs to drop the do-gooder policys and follow the US example where you work or you have nothing.

The Irish Social Welfare system is currently being overhauled. A claimant can no longer have his/her claim lodged into a Bank Account every week, as the claimant signed on every month. Your claim must be lodged into your local Post Office, weekly, and you must collect it within 48hours of it being lodged there. If you don't collect within 48hrs, you lose that weeks money, and if that happens on a regular basis, strong questions will be asked. You must also collect your money in person, bringing your Social Welfare Card with you, to have it swiped through a scanner the post office (which has good CCTV), before you get a cent.

This is not an ideal solution, but it is a start. Being on the Dole for longer than 6 months, should be a 24hour job.

OPENROAD · 27-05-2008 07:19PM

gollyitsolly wrote: »

Today Im sick of the lot of them. Im fed up with them on the roads,in the shops ,in pubs, in restaurants, in schools, in workplaces..and so on and on. Im sick of this bloody treaty crap. Im sick of this whole EU bloody union. I want them all to feck off back to where they came from . I want to go back to the pub and smoke. I want the corner shop and pub to come back and feck off lidl and aldi.........God Im in bad humour with the bleeding lot of them today. Can we not just get out of the bloody EU and go back to being the real Ireland ?:mad:

and all those bloody roads built for with British, German and French taxpayers money.

OPENROAD · 27-05-2008 07:23PM

waxon-waxoff wrote: »

.

The Irish emigrants that went to the US and UK are not a correct comparison with what we see occuring in Ireland today. people wanted to integrate into their new communities and become Americans, Australians or English. Most immigrants here are from countries with totally different cultures to ours and they dont try to integrate.

You obviously haven't been to Kilburn or some parts of Finsbury park lately, still like a little Ireland.

gollyitsolly · 27-05-2008 07:34PM

OPENROAD wrote: »

and all those bloody roads built for with British, German and French taxpayers money.

And all the social welfare payments, housing subs ,translator fees paid for with Irish taxpayers. Have a look at the FAS site and see the amount of jobs for translators and what it pays.

gollyitsolly · 27-05-2008 07:35PM

OPENROAD wrote: »

You obviously haven't been to Kilburn or some parts of Finsbury park lately, still like a little Ireland.

Have to disagree with you . Its practically all muslim.

OPENROAD · 27-05-2008 07:38PM

gollyitsolly wrote: »

And all the social welfare payments, housing subs ,translator fees paid for with Irish taxpayers. Have a look at the FAS site and see the amount of jobs for translators and what it pays.

And I suppose you have the amount paid out in social welfare payments to EU citizens do you?

And of course if we do pull out of the EU like you suggest you will have no problem with the Irish being kicked out of the UK.

Dudess · 27-05-2008 07:38PM

waxon-waxoff wrote: »

The Africans and Asians are here to stay because they came after hearing about how wealthy Ireland is and all the money you get off the Government for having kids and not having to work.

Not ALL of them. And Africa/Asia - that's a hell of a big area, you need to narrow things down a bit.

Remember the stories a few years back about African women arriving hours before giving birth

Sure they were taking the piss but not all African women deserve to get thrown into the same bracket.

What happens to them next, a free apartment and more money and benefits for every child you have. You can even get a grant to buy a car by claiming you need it to go to church.

Meh, blame the government tbh. It's up to them to clamp down on such sponging. But no, instead the frustration is directed at all immigrants.

Thats the only reason they chose Ireland.

Who's this "they"? You're being very vague.

Some things that are not allowed in a country like Ireland are cultural norms in other countries and can be used to back up an asylum claim if it suits.

I agree, but there are genuine asylum seekers who are fleeing absolute horrors.

The social welfare system needs to be completely overhauled and become a safety net for temporarily unemployed net rather than a career choice.

I agree.

Thousands of Irish have abused the system for years and we turned a blind eye. We cant be surprised when non-nationals do the same.

Exactly.

Europe needs to drop the do-gooder policys and follow the US example where you work or you have nothing.

A bit too extreme also, but somewhere in between, yep.

For the politically correct (challenged) when do we say 'stop'

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