For the politically correct (challenged) when do we say 'stop'

darkman2

So.........when stop the immigration? I just wonder because certain communities in Dublin are now foreign - this is known because of skin colour. Not because of the Poles etc....they are white like us so tend to go unnoticed. So for the PC crowd - when do we stop immigration? When it is too late?....presumably. I know the PC crowd is loaded with middle income twats but you will pay aswell. Mark my words - a racial divide is coming here and you must be prepared. Of course you will not see it until after the weakest (working class) sees it. By then it is too late. So how will we deal with this issue of immigration? Will the Politically correct always hold this strangle on any debate about it until we suffer real consequences?

Xavi6

darkman2 wrote: »

Not because of the Poles etc....they are white like us so tend to go unnoticed.

The tight haircuts, bulging biceps, black leather jackets, black t-shirts, black jeans and black runners would lead me to think otherwise

darkman2 wrote: »

When it is too late?

Some might say it already is.

darkman2 wrote: »

So how will we deal with this issue of immigration?

The Nice Treaty was a start wasn't it?

darkman2 wrote: »

Will the Politically correct always hold this strangle on any debate about it until we suffer real consequences?

Most definitely.

Whether it's PC or not I really don't want Ireland to completely lose it's identity and become a racially segregated country. I see that a lot over here and it's not a good way to be. Communities stick together and don't interact with others. Obviously it's a sweeping generalisation but it is the majority that have no time for anyone other than their own.

invincibleirish

I love the smell of right wing reactionary anti immigrant rhetoric so early in the morning.....makes my trendy liberal self feel so....alive....

Xavi6

invincibleirish wrote: »

I love the smell of right wing reactionary anti immigrant rhetoric so early in the morning.....makes my trendy liberal self feel so....alive....

Whatever about the OP, I'm anything but anti-immigrant and think it's great having a healthy mix of cultures. However I do feel it is unhealthy to have such segregation in Ireland, or any country for that matter. As I said, I've seen it over here and the same thing is slowly creeping in back home. You can't honestly tell me that that's a good situation.

orestes

Ah, Irish people giving out about immigration, the ironing never ceases to make me laugh

JangoFett

A lot of people who come to Ireland do work and pay taxes and earn what they have here. The Poles being in Ireland, apparently their plan is to come to Ireland, work for a few years and then go back to Poland, nothing permanent, not 100% sure though

Sure, there is an element in Ireland visitors that cause trouble but there is an element in Irish people that cause trouble too! Saying that african people commit more crimes like that other thread is complete horse****. Those stories are just more publicised because it gets up the backs of the racist and the slightly racist people

Nerin

orestes wrote: »

Ah, Irish people giving out about immigration, the ironing never ceases to make me laugh

stop making such good posts :mad:;)

tallaght01

OP, when you talk about all the different "races", do you mean we should put a halt to asylum seekers, or put a halt to immigration?

They're two very different situations, but used almost interchangeably in Ireland.

I'm happy enough with putting a cap on immigration, but not on asylum.

darkman2

JangoFett wrote: »

A lot of people who come to Ireland do work and pay taxes and earn what they have here. The Poles being in Ireland, apparently their plan is to come to Ireland, work for a few years and then go back to Poland, nothing permanent, not 100% sure though

Sure, there is an element in Ireland visitors that cause trouble but there is an element in Irish people that cause trouble too! Saying that african people commit more crimes like that other thread is complete horse****. Those stories are just more publicised because it gets up the backs of the racist and the slightly racist people

When did I say Blacks commit more crimes then Whites? Never.

Lets get one thing straight though - I hate when politically correct types (like you) bring up the Irish going to America - Firstly America is a vast country and was never going to be overwhelmed by the handful coming off this Island. Secondly America felt it had a moral duty to take us in (considering they once felt British imperialism) even though most of them were Protestant. Comparision is simply void in this argument. We are a tiny country. We cannot sustain mass immigration. However I feel, despite our warnings over the years, the damage is already done. It is not this generation but the second generation of immigrant children that stir things up. Wait and see. Its going to happen exactly like in France.

JangoFett

darkman2 wrote: »

When did I say Blacks commit more crimes then Whites? Never.

Whoa whoa whoa, I didn't say you said that. Because you CLEARLY didn't.
I was just referring to the other thread that is enraging

But what you say makes a lot of sense, however if you express these views in a public forum, like this, or even in a pub, you will be branded as racist at some point. If we turn away asylum seekers or immigrants Ireland becomes a hypocrite and we get a ****ty reputation.

I think it can be good for Ireland, more genetic diversity and all that lark. But, should Ireland start deporting more people, the media already jumps all over those sob stories

What would the criteria be, I'm genuinely curious about this. Like if you come to Ireland, get all the benefits to get you started here and if you haven't looked for a job in X months you get kicked out, or if you get offered jobs and don't take them you get deported after X months?

elmolesto

invincibleirish wrote: »

I love the smell of right wing reactionary anti immigrant rhetoric so early in the morning.....makes my trendy liberal self feel so....alive....

+1

Xavi6 wrote: »

Whatever about the OP, I'm anything but anti-immigrant and think it's great having a healthy mix of cultures. However I do feel it is unhealthy to have such segregation in Ireland, or any country for that matter. As I said, I've seen it over here and the same thing is slowly creeping in back home. You can't honestly tell me that that's a good situation.

I think it's great to have a mix of cultures.

orestes wrote: »

Ah, Irish people giving out about immigration, the ironing never ceases to make me laugh

Me too:)

Xavi6

elmolesto wrote: »

I think it's great to have a mix of cultures.

Yes which is what I said. However, like everything else, there are limits. Limits that will eventually be exceeded.

darkman2

JangoFett wrote: »

Whoa whoa whoa, I didn't say you said that. Because you CLEARLY didn't.
I was just referring to the other thread that is enraging

But what you say makes a lot of sense, however if you express these views in a public forum, like this, or even in a pub, you will be branded as racist at some point. If we turn away asylum seekers or immigrants Ireland becomes a hypocrite and we get a ****ty reputation.

I think it can be good for Ireland, more genetic diversity and all that lark. But, should Ireland start deporting more people, the media already jumps all over those sob stories

What would the criteria be, I'm genuinely curious about this. Like if you come to Ireland, get all the benefits to get you started here and if you haven't looked for a job in X months you get kicked out, or if you get offered jobs and don't take them you get deported after X months?

I agree - those that need help must get sanctuary but like I said this is a tiny country and we should implement Austrailian type policies to protect us as best we can. We do not have the luxury of most other EU states. We are far more vulnerable then they are to being overwhelmed through immigration. Simply due to our small size. We cannot accomodate such numbers and tensions are going to rise here. We are going down a dangerous path and I fear we are already past the point where much can be done about it. My fear is justified. Look at Holland and France......thats the not too distant future here. We had a head start and have not learnt a thing.

Black Swan

Was there a time in the States when concern was voiced about Irish immigration? They came in the thousands, and seemed to concentrate in enclaves (at first), too, among people like themselves. Did they bring change with them? Of course.

I doubt today that many would look back and say it was a bad thing. If you don't believe it, then show up for St Pat's in Chicago when they dye the river green, march the Miracle Mile, and party from sundown to sun rise on Rush Street. Although not an official US holiday, you would think it was, with millions over here from seaboard to seaboard claiming to be Irish on that day (even if they have no ancestry). Since I've been here, I have always felt welcome by most citizens.

darkman2

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

Was there a time in the States when concern was voiced about Irish immigration? They came in the thousands, and seemed to concentrate in enclaves (at first), too, among people like themselves. Did they bring change with them? Of course.

I doubt today that many would look back and say it was a bad thing. If you don't believe it, then show up for St Pat's in Chicago when they dye the river green, march the Miracle Mile, and party from sundown to sun rise on Rush Street. Although not an official US holiday, you would think it was, with millions over here from seaboard to seaboard claiming to be Irish on that day (even if they have no ancestry). Since I've been here, I have always felt welcome by most citizens.

Like I said America is built on immigrants and its an enormous country. The same cannot be said for us. We are a speck on the planet. We cannot sustain what most can sustain. Your argument is nonsense.

Xavi6

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

Was there a time in the States when concern was voiced about Irish immigration? They came in the thousands, and seemed to concentrate in enclaves (at first), too, among people like themselves. Did they bring change with them? Of course.

I doubt today that many would look back and say it was a bad thing. If you don't believe it, then show up for St Pat's in Chicago when they dye the river green, march the Miracle Mile, and party from sundown to sun rise on Rush Street. Although not an official US holiday, you would think it was, with millions over here from seaboard to seaboard claiming to be Irish on that day (even if they have no ancestry). Since I've been here, I have always felt welcome by most citizens.

I lived in Chicago for a while and I know exactly what you mean. It is great.

BUT the issue with Ireland is not having people come over, it's the AMOUNT. We simply don't have the space in the country.

Mahatma coat

Me, I'd like to see an end to the assylum thing altogether, I've no problem with Economic Migrants ie Coming to a country to work and make a contribution, but those people who claim political asylum should be stopped, theres probably a good reason yer own people wanna kill you, what makes you think we wont.

Australia 'oficially' ended its Whites only policy in the seventies, I'd consider this a bit of a mistake meself, still dosent allow PNG'ers or Indonesians or most of the dark islanders in without jumoin through hoops first tho

GaryD

I drove through Letrim today and there is plenty of space their.

Nobody is going to take your 'jobs and your wimmen', relax

GaryD

Mahatma coat wrote: »

but those people who claim political asylum should be stopped, theres probably a good reason yer own people wanna kill you, what makes you think we wont.

How insightful :rolleyes:

Black Swan

darkman2 wrote: »

Your argument is nonsense.

Your social construction of reality is ethnocentric, historically short-sighted, and biased. But then again, we all are biased aren't we? You, me, everyone? The ebbs and flows of immigration and emigration have occurred for Ireland since humans have occupied the island, and will continue. Change is a constant.

darkman2

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

Your social construction of reality is ethnocentric, historically short-sighted, and biased. But then again, we all are biased aren't we? You, me, everyone? The ebbs and flows of immigration and emigration have occurred for Ireland since humans have occupied the island, and will continue. Face it.

You obviously fail to see the point. London has twice the population of this country. Thats how small we are. We cannot cope with mass immigration - but its too late anyway. No point debating it now. The damage is done and the rewards will be reaped soon enough.

Mahatma coat

How insightful

well think about it, how would the world have faired if Che Geuvarra had decided that revolution was all too hard and he'd be better off in a semiD out in Swords, or if Ghandi had decided that the Govt of India were persecuting him a bit much and he'd be better off just keepin the head down and draw the dole in Leitrim.

people who claim political asylum are deserting their country when the goin gets tough, theres no place for deserters in my book

Black Swan

darkman2 wrote: »

You obviously fail to see the point.

No, I think we are arguing from different perspectives. Mine is one of long term, historical demographic change. I'll bet that my ancestors said the same thing (that others have said here) about Viking invasions in Donegal, when they were occurring, not later. Of course, they were uninvited guests, too? The Irish translation of that County name says it all...

Demographic change will occur. It will not always be pleasant for those here, when others come. What draws people to Ireland will not be a constant. There will be cause to draw, and cause to leave. Things are always changing, like it or not.

What concerns me in the short-term, if there are to be limits on our postage-sized island in terms of immigration, is who decides who comes and who is excluded?

Rb

darkman2 wrote: »

No point debating it now. The damage is done and the rewards will be reaped soon enough.

Well, it is and it isn't. There's a huge amount of Poles here who are here purely for the work, when the work disappears, so will they. It's not as though every last one of them is going to stick around to claim social welfare, they'll go where the work/money is. Same case with the Chinese I'd imagine.

The Africans, in fairness to them, are doing a good job of integrating here. The Poles, well, a lot of them are integrating extremely well and are really making an effort but a lot aren't also. That's ok though, because they're probably the ones who'll leap off the Island the minute we've no work for them.

As long as there's jobs for them, let them come, it's good for our economy. Particularly the Polish, given how hard working they are and an awful lot of them are well educated also.

However, I'm all for deporting those that aren't working, or those who've committed crime here. I'm also for closing our gates to asylum seekers. We're not the "nearest safe country" to a lot of the countries they're coming from, so we shouldn't have to put them up here.

We need to say "stop" when unemployment starts rising sharply, or the amount of new jobs being created drops dramatically. Until then, I think we're good.

I would however like to see more comprehensive security/background checks done on those immigrating here, and preventing those with convictions from entering.

To be quite honest, I'm more concerned about those keeping Fianna Fail in power and those who'll vote yes to Lisbon, than the immigrants we have here. I fully believe that if you've voted for Fianna Fail, or if you vote Yes to Lisbon, you should be prevented from leaving the country for the next 30 years for more than 2 weeks at a time so you can stick around for when the shít hits the fan, to suffer the consequences and have to fix what you've caused.

tallaght01

Mahatma coat wrote: »

well think about it, how would the world have faired if Che Geuvarra had decided that revolution was all too hard and he'd be better off in a semiD out in Swords, or if Ghandi had decided that the Govt of India were persecuting him a bit much and he'd be better off just keepin the head down and draw the dole in Leitrim.

people who claim political asylum are deserting their country when the goin gets tough, theres no place for deserters in my book

I presume you're being ironic?

I think we are stumped by EU freedom of movement law, in terms of stopping people coming here form other EU countries.

For those outside the EU, does anyone know how we process immigration applicants (not asylum seekers)? Is it points based on your skills etc? or how do we do it?

Moriarty

Darkman2 posting anti-immigration threads.. something to set your watch by.

karen3212

GaryD wrote: »

I drove through Letrim today and there is plenty of space their.

Nobody is going to take your 'jobs and your wimmen', relax

That's what I was thinking, when we run out of space on the ground, we can start building higher, surely. We won't run out of space for at least a thousand years, then we can start moving off to the newly colonised planets.

JangoFett

When it comes to asylum seekers, they're fleeing the country because of some sort of persecution

So when those seeking asylum come to Ireland have it granted and can enjoy our, lets face it, beautiful country shouldn't they be well behaved. I think that asylum seekers who come to ANY country and break that countries laws shouldn't be put in jail, they should be deported.

Our prisons are well known to be a pretty sweet number as far as prisons go. For example, I doubt prisons in certain african countries would be as nice as our. I use Africa as an example because that where a good few asylum seekers are from. So if they come here, break our laws and end up in jail...its still a sweet deal for them!

Some people would say "Deporting them is making these trouble makers someone elses problem" and well, yeah, they came here seeking asylum and screwed up, we gave them a chance and they spat on it.

Of course, these people are a small percentage of the immigrants to Ireland. My personal opinion of it is that its a good thing, but the ones who come to exploit and break the laws, well, I don't want them here. Same way I lived witha guy from carlow, he was on the dole getting rent allowance and he refused to look for a job because being on the dole etc was an easy number. He sat around all day and got stoned. He made me sick, I was out workin 40 hours a week and I enjoyed it!

Mahatma coat

Wha? no!

look at it like this,

yer sittin at home on the front porch, some foreign fella walks up to the fence and says,

Eh Matey, yer grass is lookin a bit long there, for a tenner I'll mow it.

this is economic miration, there may be plenty of grass where he came from but no one's gonna give him a tenner for mowing it.


However picture the scene again, sittin on th e Porch, Foreignist Jumps over the fence, runs inta yer house, and says

Hi I claim political asylum in your house, I am entitled to do so under Blahdeblah pinkolefty legislation. whats more you have to feed me and give me money or I can have you prosecuted. and on another note you should get that front lawn mowed its a feckin disgrace.

JangoFett

Mahatma coat wrote: »

However picture the scene again, sittin on th e Porch, Foreignist Jumps over the fence, runs inta yer house, and says

Hi I claim political asylum in your house, I am entitled to do so under Blahdeblah pinkolefty legislation. whats more you have to feed me and give me money or I can have you prosecuted. and on another note you should get that front lawn mowed its a feckin disgrace.

That wouldn't happen man, I so so so hope you're being sarcastic

Black Swan

tallaght01 wrote: »

I think we are stumped by EU freedom of movement law, in terms of stopping people coming here form other EU countries.

Indeed! And that might make some uncomfortable given that EU citizens come in every shape, size, colour, creed, ethnicity, ancestry, and whatnot? Ireland would have to leave the EU to put discriminatory immigration practices in force against other EU citizens? And once again, who decides who is fit to come to Ireland, and who is not?