Mage or Warlock?

Einstein · 09-04-2008 11:17pm #1

So i'm up to level 7 on human warlock, but can't get much further cos he's a crap fighter...so i made a human mage...

which one do u guys think is better pursuing?

Mr. CooL ICE · 10-04-2008 12:00am

Depends on which one you find more fun tbh! I'm not sure how much rpg experience you have, so I'll put in simple terms. They are both dps caster classes, but the play styles are very different due to spell differences and warlocks having a pet.

The mage for a start, excels at burst damage, whereas the warlock relies on a lot of damage over time. For example, in a single fight, a mage will cast x amount of spells - most will cause a certain amount of damage per hit, and others will be used to get away from the mob. Also, mages have the best AoE spells (area of effect) spells.

A warlock's spells rely on slowly draining the mob of his health, while the pet is usually used to keep the mob away from the warlock. In a typical fight, certain DoTs (damage over time) should be cast at the start of the battle (in case a DoT that lasts 20 seconds is cast when the mob is nearly dead), while other spells (e.g. shadowbolt) or wands (cost no mana) can be used to whittle down the rest of his health.

You were saying he is a crap fighter - I only got my warlock up to lvl16, so I can't really comment on the class overall, but wait until you get the voidwalker quest at lvl10. IIRC, I also thought the warlock was crap before lvl10, but the voidwalker pet is much better for grinding mobs with than the imp; although he causes less damage, he is tougher, has more health, and his job is to keep bad guys away from you. It should sort out your complaint about him being a crap fighter.

Of the two classes, I recommend sticking with the warlock for another 5-10 levels. Ditch him and start a mage if he is annoying you. In PVP battlegrounds, the warlock is possibly the most imba class there is.

Einstein · 10-04-2008 12:22am

cooool

yea, i was gettin kinda lonely as a mage without my lil pet

Ivan · 10-04-2008 12:42am

Warlocks are infinitely easier to play than mages. Whether that is a good thing or not, is up to you but for your first character I would say stick with the warlock.

The warlock playstyle completely changes at level 10 with the voidwalker pet and again at level 16 with the addition of fear.

Mages dont get really good until 10 when they get frost nova.

Mages can produce water and food to eat and drink but a warlock rarely needs to eat or drink if s/he plays in a certain way.

DapperGent · 10-04-2008 2:15am

I think the warlock is currently more powerful in both PvP and PvE at end game and as a pet class are much easier to level, for my money a mage is way way more fun though, really cool class.

Also as far as 5 man groups go a mage is the most desireable of the DPS classes to bring which would cut down at least a little on your wait times to get a 5 man group when you start dungeons.

Einstein · 10-04-2008 3:07am

ok so i'm now a level 8 warlock with alchemy and enchanting professions (trainees)

Although they're kinda confusing :P

Fremen · 10-04-2008 3:25am

Yeah, I'd pick mage if I were you, they looked like fun. I played a hunter to 60 before burning crusade, I think pet classes are a bit dull.

Enchanting can be a really nice way to make money easily. I used to arbitrage the AH with my priest, bidding on cheap green armor and disenchanting it into mats which cost more. Didn't have to grind for cash, which is nice because holy priests are incapable of it anyway.

(Edit: mages are like Irishmen- drink, fight, drink, fight, drink...)

10-04-2008 8:11am

Mage =

tbh
Mage is more dps, but lock will be more damage over time

Dcully · 10-04-2008 8:41am

While ive never maxed out the level cap on either class i have both in their late 40s and must say i prefer the mage to play.
I got bored of dot dot dot on the lock.
Mages are always more sought after for 5 mans too i find.
I always find mages harder to kill in pvp than locks too because of their ability to trap and control the fight.

Overall id suggest a mage,great dps,greatcc,greatpvp,great fun especially frost mages

If i had time id love to level up my mage fully whereas ive no interest in my lock but thats just my two cents

joe_chicken · 10-04-2008 9:10am

Einstein wrote: »

ok so i'm now a level 8 warlock with alchemy and enchanting professions (trainees)

If this is your first character I'd suggest ditching both of these.

Explanation:
There are 2 types of skill, secondary and primary.

You can have as many secondary as you want (first aid, cooking, fishing...)
But only 2 primary skills (alchemy, mining, enchanting...)

Then there are 2 types of primary skill, collecting and crafting.

Ideally, you'd want one collecting and one crafting (e.g. leatherworking and skinning) but, to be honest, if it's your first character, you'd be better off getting 2 collecting professions and selling everything in the Auction House.

The crafting professions takes a lot of collecting (time) and/or gold to get to high levels to make good stuff and when you're low level, you can't afford to waste gold.

When you reach into the 60's or 70 you can afford this stuff a lot easier, so you could ditch your collecting skills and pick up 2 crafting.

You have 2 crafting professions there (enchanting takes a lot of gold to level) so unless you have a lot of gold, you're gonna find it hard to level either.

If you really wanna keep one, I'd drop enchanting and take up herbalism, so you can collect stuff for alchemy. But personally I'd pick up mining (lots of gold in this, but can get a little tedious) and skinning (a medium amount of gold, but easy to do, as you're killing animals all the time)

Hope that helps

Mr. CooL ICE · 10-04-2008 10:35am

I second joe_chicken. Unless you're a high level with lots of gold, you won't be able to level alchemy without herbalism first. I only got enchanting up to 75 on my warlock, so I can't comment much on it, but I found it a pain to get it up that far!

It depends on the server economy, but overall, I found mining to be the most profitable profession, and I highly recommend it. In the early stages, copper bars (not the ore) in stacks of 20 sell at a decent price. Tin and bronze bars sell at an ok price too, but before you start making stacks of bronze, check the auction house to see which would reap a better price - if a stack of tin and a stack of copper add up to more than twice the price of a stack of bronze, then don't make bronze (unless you want to get your mining skill up for that level)

As for a second profession - I recommend another gathering one. Skinning is relatively easy to level up, as long as you remember to skin all skinnable mobs you kill. Herbalism is useful too, but (might need to be corrected here) it might clash with mining, as both show up on the minimap, but only one can be tracked at a time.

I recommend keeping whatever two professions you have until about lvl 65-68, and ditch the one you least desire and take up tailoring. However, if you're thirsty for potions and have herbalism skilled up, go for that with alchemy.

Just another small thing which might not be clear - The colour coding up mobs and professions. When you are levelling up a skill, red > orange > yellow > green > grey. Red means you can't use that skill, orange means you can use it, and will always gain 1 profession xp, yellow means theres a 50/50 (might need correction) chance of gaining a point, and green is only about 20-25% chance. Grey means nothing of course. So, if you are skilling up mining, you may realise you are in an area where every single mineral vein is red. If this occurs, go back to the previous area you were levelling in and find as many yellow-named veins as possible. There is a period between level 75 and 125 that is hard to skill up, so an hour spent looking for tin veins around The Barrens when you get to that stage should see you past it.

Anti · 10-04-2008 11:26am

Personally i would stick with the warlock. The reason being is that a warlock is very easy to play in both pve and pvp, and can be leveled up quickly. Plus the addition of the voidwalker and felreaver ( tanking pets ) will make grinding a half decent experience. I have my lock at 56 and i have no problems finding groups for instances. The mage when played correctly is a much more powerfull char, but its very rare to find one that is played right. As for your professions i would pick skinning as it makes a stupid ammount of money if you know how to play the AH properly, and mining. Enchanting and Herbalism i find are more suited for an alt char. As by the time you start leveling you will have the money to send to an alt to lvl them skills up.

If you really want to have some fun leveling pick a hunter. But stay away from tanking classes ( warrior/paladin ) or healers ( priest/paladin/shaman ) untill you get a bit more experience.

Einstein · 10-04-2008 12:05pm

wow- thanks for the responses! this forum rocks.

So how do i ditch professions or do i just start again?

Kiith · 10-04-2008 12:27pm

You can click 'Unlearn' on the skills tab beside the profession that you want to get rid of.

Psycopat · 10-04-2008 2:24pm

people always say warlocks are easy to play but while i agree to a certain extent you could say any class is easy to play, the thing that makes warlocks so 'imba' is if you know your class you will top the damage meters in raids. As an affliction Lock in raids you have a large amount of spell rotation to do which varies boss to boss and its all about apply'ing your dots at the correct time and in the correct order and being as mana efficient ass possible. On the other hand you have destro locks 'shadow mages' who output huge damage if they have enough crit in their gear, this spec involves no thinking, just pressing the shadow bolt button, in my guild for most bosses its destro locks topping damage meters, then affliction locks, then rogues, then mages followed by hunters. although this isnt always the case, for superemus i was the only affliction lock in the raid and i did 13% of the damage, the nearest to me was a destro lock on 9% and its the same for archimond every week.
When you consider how versatile locks are at end game pve/pvp mages seem slightly less usefull but definatly needed, mage pros include sheeping and being water vendors (just kidding) they do output some nice damage and have very good aoe however a warlocks seed of corruption is the best aoe in game.
It really all depends on what you which class you prefer and what you want out of wow. ive talked about warlocks in high level dungeons whereas 90% of people will never even reach them. I remember in kara mages usually topped the meters put in SSC/TK warlocks surged ahead. as far as pvp goes frost mages are really really nice. google 3v3 frost mage arena and watch how easilly 3 frost mages pwn up. although on the other hand sl/sl warlocks are really nice too.
as far as leveling to 10 goes i dunno why you find it so difficult, a friend of mine has a 63 mage and decided to level a warlock and found their damage output to mobs really big. he got to level 13 pretty damn quick. i personaly cant remember how long it took me to level but i do remember it being a good deal easier to level my lock to 70 than my warrior (although people consider warriors the hardest class to level).

Anyway, in my opinion level both to 20 and see which you prefer.

oh look at that i went on a big rant when i shoulda been doing project, damn wow wrecking my school work

Weidii · 10-04-2008 2:30pm

I'd recommend mages personally, they're just so much fun to play, especially when you start getting better CC and AoE spells.

If you want to use a class specifically for the pet, go with hunter.

BadCharlie · 10-04-2008 3:36pm

I my self have only 1 lvl 70 and that is a hunter. I know hunters dont or should not top the dps charts. But thats most hunters, my self im always on top no matter if its 10man raid or 25man & its been like that the past 3 or 4 months since we been doing the big Raids in SSC/Tk, Gruul, Mag, Za & even kara. And i mean every raid i gone & i would do 4 or 5 a week i have always finished 1st. Just saying even a hunter can out put some nice DPS.

But from talking to other class's and & also having low alts of all differint types. I go with very much what people are saying here. Mages are great fun but might not top the DPS meters but none the less they are still very good.

Warlocks if your any good should be top when it comes to damage done in a raid & also the fact they are imba in PvP would make me want to lvl 1 up to 70 fast.

To sum it up about people doing damage. You can have the best gear and dps class in the game, but if you suck at it your not going to do much. We 1 IMBA mage in our guild who keeps me on my toes all times.

Anti · 10-04-2008 5:27pm

BadCharlie wrote: »

I my self have only 1 lvl 70 and that is a hunter. I know hunters dont or should not top the dps charts. But thats most hunters, my self im always on top no matter if its 10man raid or 25man & its been like that the past 3 or 4 months since we been doing the big Raids in SSC/Tk, Gruul, Mag, Za & even kara. And i mean every raid i gone & i would do 4 or 5 a week i have always finished 1st. Just saying even a hunter can out put some nice DPS.

But from talking to other class's and & also having low alts of all differint types. I go with very much what people are saying here. Mages are great fun but might not top the DPS meters but none the less they are still very good.

Warlocks if your any good should be top when it comes to damage done in a raid & also the fact they are imba in PvP would make me want to lvl 1 up to 70 fast.

To sum it up about people doing damage. You can have the best gear and dps class in the game, but if you suck at it your not going to do much. We 1 IMBA mage in our guild who keeps me on my toes all times.

Hey BC,

Any chance you can link me to yoru armory page ? I'd love to see what gear and stats you have.

BadCharlie · 11-04-2008 10:14am

Cant link it from work.

But just check up

Muppetkiller

Think their is only 2 of us, and im the only lvl 70 if i remember.
I do 389dps and pet another 167dps.
Crit is about 26.8%
BM spec
Thats is the stats i can remember off hand. During raids i will use pots and elixers to help my self out. And when buffed i do about 420dps and pet another 220dps. This is just on auto fire so when i do arcane, muti fire then your dps will go up. Also pop a trinket on CD and your flying.

I have have 3 T4, 1 T5, S2 Bow S3 Axe. & other good stuff. Check me out and if u dont see the T gear then its cause i must have logged out in my PvP gear which is crap.

copeyhagen · 11-04-2008 1:23pm

on my hunter i regulalry (60-70%) top the charts in bg and my gear is quite sh1te. im bm headin towards a 41/20 build. i went for the impr mana in mm instead of improved hunters mark.

i suck with my warrior but i rock with the hunter, every time i top the chart i take a screenie! ill have a look when i get home see how many times i have topped : )

if any1 wants to see him, hes lvl 60. copeshunt, laughing skull

yeh i know the name is crap!

he has a tonne of honour already, keepin it till he hits 70 to buy the merc stuff now..

BadCharlie · 12-04-2008 7:39pm

Link to my Armory
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Alonsus&n=Muppetkiller

Magill · 12-04-2008 11:25pm

You must have awful rogues if you top DPS everytime pal.

Hunters are a very good dps class idd, ive seen them top the meters often, but rogues are easily the Number 1 DPS raiding class in the game. Dont kid yourself if you think hunters/mages/warlocks or warriors are, rogues dominate the DPS meters on any fight that isn't unfriendly to melee, kara is abit urg, as most of the fights are short compared to 25mans, and groups are often not the greatest, but come SCC/TK/MH/BT rogues will equal gear just pwn face.

BadCharlie · 13-04-2008 12:49am

Have to say our rogues must be crap then. Even when i did meet a real good 1 they never in the top 5 dps. Mostly they are in the middle. And our rogues are not badly geared at all.

I my self would pick a Warrior DPS over a Rogue DPS. We have 2 real good DPS warriors who are just imba, & out dps our rogues by a long way.

Oh my dps is now 395 and pet 175

. Did some more upgrades today.

nicryan · 13-04-2008 2:03am

LordChessington wrote: »

It depends on the server economy, but overall, I found mining to be the most profitable profession, and I highly recommend it. In the early stages, copper bars (not the ore) in stacks of 20 sell at a decent price. Tin and bronze bars sell at an ok price too, but before you start making stacks of bronze, check the auction house to see which would reap a better price - if a stack of tin and a stack of copper add up to more than twice the price of a stack of bronze, then don't make bronze (unless you want to get your mining skill up for that level)

I'll agree with you completly that gathering profs are the most profitable early on - at lvl 70 you might decide to drop one or both for other professions (I had mining and skinning up to lvl 60 - I lvled pre-bc and dropped em for tailoring and enchanting) - but you're wrong on selling them as bars. Don't do this. Sell them as ores and you'll make more money becuase there's always alts about trying to powerlevel jewelcrafting which needs the ores to prospect. I just checked the auction house on my server (laughing skull - horde), a stack of 20 copper bars was selling for 1.75g and a stack of 20 copper ore was selling for 2g. Its not much of a difference but that is for the lowest level thing to gather. For BC ores/bars the gap is much much bigger (when you concider that it takes 2 ores to make 1 bar)

Also, as a dps class both locks and mages are equivalent mostly. When raiding I find that its always one of 2 people on top of the damage meters 1 being me (mage) the other being a lock. But I reckon thats gonna change next time cause I've specced back into frost and so he won't take advantage of my stacked scorches.

-EDIT: also, a lock will do far better in pvp due to the fact that a lock can pvp quite well with a raiding spec. Mages need to pick either POM pyro spec or deep frost to be effective at pvp - neither of which is a good raiding spec. The best raiding specs for mages are either arc/frost (48/0/11) or fire (2/48/11). While a pvp speced mage will be either arc frost (17/0/44) or pom pyro (21/40/0).

-Nic

jason&arthur · 13-04-2008 11:18pm

if you want to do the best ranged dps with minimal effort & no support required, get a lock and spec 0/21/40.
if you want to do best dps with a bit of effort & rely on 2~ other classes, get a rogue and spec 20/41/0
if you want a combination pick a hunter and spec BM.

those are the 3 best dps classes currently, anyone who tells you different is prolly stuck in kara where the person who knows what buttons to press half the time wins.
however mages are starting to scale up alot with haste, so within a few weeks (i.e. when they complete their sunwell gear) it might prove pretty awesome. but they would be a risky choice, locks have very solid multipliers so will always scale well.

if you want to play for fun, take a mage. blink is just the most fun button ever.

Anti · 13-04-2008 11:33pm

jason&arthur wrote: »

if you want to do the best ranged dps with minimal effort & no support required, get a lock and spec 0/21/40.
if you want to do best dps with a bit of effort & rely on 2~ other classes, get a rogue and spec 20/41/0
if you want a combination pick a hunter and spec BM.

those are the 3 best dps classes currently, anyone who tells you different is prolly stuck in kara where the person who knows what buttons to press half the time wins.
however mages are starting to scale up alot with haste, so within a few weeks (i.e. when they complete their sunwell gear) it might prove pretty awesome. but they would be a risky choice, locks have very solid multipliers so will always scale well.

if you want to play for fun, take a mage. blink is just the most fun button ever.

I dont agree with a BM spec hunter being a good dpsers. Out of interest we did a quick kara run today, and a bm spec hunter in the raid managed to do less then 50% of the damage i did. I was bm spec from 1-58 and as soon as i changed to MM i noticed my damage had doubled !

Dustaz · 14-04-2008 9:36am

The 'top dps' will totally depend on the fight and the gear the particpants are wearing. If its melee-centric, rogues WILL win. If its a 'caster' fight, then it will be locks or possibly mages.

The current benchmark for dps is Brutallus in sunwell plateau:
http://wowwebstats.com/1n2o3d3sufrjc?s=9501-9840&m

thats Elitist Jerks (one of the top guilds in the world) wws report. As you can see a rogue wins but the mage and lock arent far behind. Were currently on this boss and i can say without any shadow of a doubt that this boss will test your ability to squeeze every last possible dps out of your character.

But yeh, if your a hunter and your top of the meters, theres something VERY wrong with your guild.

BadCharlie · 14-04-2008 10:23am

Anti Bm spec is the best DPS spec for a hunter. I can say this with 100%. Im now doing 401dps pet 176dps & over 27% crit. MM is good but makes your pet hit like a girl. If you want to get the most out of BM make sure you use your pet in fights and it does not die during the fight.

I have met other Bm hunters and they only get half my total dps during raids.

It does come down to Gear but also something you cant buy Skill.

Our guild is good i think and some very fine dps people in it. Mages and locks always close to me but somehow im always on top. Our dps meters match up after end of fights so it not just mine telling me lies

. But yes other hunters in our guild when in raids are mid table.

Also keep in mind some fights do not suit hunters at all, due to not been able to use pet ect...

Anyways mages = fun
Locks = Dps

Dustaz · 14-04-2008 9:31pm

Our guild is good i think and some very fine dps people in it. Mages and locks always close to me but somehow im always on top.

wws or theyre dire.

copeyhagen · 15-04-2008 9:38am

nicryan wrote: »

I just checked the auction house on my server (laughing skull - horde)

im laughing skull horde side too. whats ur toon named? i honestly thought i was the only irish player on the realm!! on horde side anyway.

Ivan · 15-04-2008 11:12am

400 dps /= very fine dps, wws not really needed imho.

BadCharlie · 15-04-2008 12:46pm

Dustaz wrote: »

wws or theyre dire.

Thats kind of saying im ****

. cause no way a hunter can be out dpsing a lock or mage lol's. Even in our guild they dont understand how i can do it. All other hunters dont come close. Even the best hord guilds on our server i have groupd with them and still out dps them....

Im very competive when it comes to game's ect. Used to play for Ireland in cs ect.. for my county in GGA sports ect.. Winning MMG in the south east ect... Well im not going to bore you to death. lol

But you should check out other hunters before u check out mine. Hardly any hunter can do over 400dps & pet on 176. Most hunters are under 300dps

with very poor hit raiting.

Killed Lurker and that element boss last night and then went to mag was fun. If we had poor dps we would not be taken this boss's down with 2mins to spare before enrage.

And yes i was top DPS guy again last night.

Just saying this so no one will be turned off hunters thinking we can all be crap.

Anti · 15-04-2008 1:06pm

BadCharlie wrote: »

Thats kind of saying im **** . cause no way a hunter can be out dpsing a lock or mage lol's. Even in our guild they dont understand how i can do it. All other hunters dont come close. Even the best hord guilds on our server i have groupd with them and still out dps them....

Im very competive when it comes to game's ect. Used to play for Ireland in cs ect.. for my county in GGA sports ect.. Winning MMG in the south east ect... Well im not going to bore you to death. lol

But you should check out other hunters before u check out mine. Hardly any hunter can do over 400dps & pet on 176. Most hunters are under 300dps with very poor hit raiting.

Killed Lurker and that element boss last night and then went to mag was fun. If we had poor dps we would not be taken this boss's down with 2mins to spare before enrage.

And yes i was top DPS guy again last night.

Just saying this so no one will be turned off hunters thinking we can all be crap.

I completly agree with you, a hunter who knows what hes doing, and wants to end up on top will always do so. In every kara run ive been in ive managed to out dps t4 locks/mages/rogues/warriors when i try. Some days i cant be bothered and do the bare minimum, and still end up in the top 3. Out of interest what is the highest crit you've landed ?

DapperGent · 15-04-2008 2:02pm

BadCharlie wrote: »

But you should check out other hunters before u check out mine. Hardly any hunter can do over 400dps & pet on 176. Most hunters are under 300dps with very poor hit raiting.

Killed Lurker and that element boss last night and then went to mag was fun. If we had poor dps we would not be taken this boss's down with 2mins to spare before enrage.

These figures seem strange to me. WWS and recount has our hunters doing well past 1000dps over a 4 hour raid and still coming fifth, I do 1kdps easy as an enhance shaman. On a blow cool down fight like Teron they'd be getting past 2k and still not topping stuff.

Granted this is people in Tier 6, but my old guild did SSC and our top 3 would always be our 3 pro BM hunters however they would again be past 1k dps and it's some measure of how poor the rest of the dps was that my enhance shammy was consistently fourth. You should try getting proper meters like Recount or WWS you might find you're selling yourself short at 600 or so DPS, I dunno how a raid can be killing stuff in SSC while their top dps is sub 600 just seems strange.

Anyway to echo the above if you're consistently coming ahead of your Warlocks and Rogues in particular then either they're shít or they're not getting the group support they need. For example a rogue has no chance of topping a meter if he doesn't have an enhance shaman and a warrior in his group.

BadCharlie · 15-04-2008 2:11pm

4800 would be the highest i have done in my spec. Well apart from doing curator but that should not count which would have been a little under 10k.

But as i never use Aimed fire while doing 25 person raids due to its 3 sec cast time. I normaly end up doing 1800 to around 2200 crits when buffed. Not buffed would be 1800 crit max, with out aimed. If i want real high crits then i would spec MM but then my pet like i said before would hit like a girl. But with a spec of 41/20/0 i think you will do more damage over time.

Also i would like to add dont compair me to T6 hunters. The guild im in is only farming T4 drops and 6 toons have t5 shoulder me been 1 of them.

BadCharlie · 15-04-2008 2:16pm

DapperGent

You don't know hunters then.
My DPS im giving is just if i hit fire and do noting else. Using no CD or arcane fire. But just hiting the fire button walking away for 5mins ect..

Yes we do group our 2 rogues with sham and dps warrior like last night.

Also i do use recount and so do our member. Another uses WWS so why did you think we did not ?

jason&arthur · 15-04-2008 2:18pm

ok guys, firstly kara is not the place for checking what classes are good dps, the majority of the time whoever has an idea of how to play their class will top the meters because the rest of the raid are bads.

secondly if you want to dps as a hunter you spec BM, thats just how it is. if you dont want to spec BM but you still want to raid, then you spec Survival and stack agi to boost your melee/other hunters. MM is not a raid spec, its a pvp spec.

lastly mages have been pulling some rediculous dps recently, heres an example:
http://wowwebstats.com/235hgpmcsigre?s=0-64
(although the rogues/hunters in that raid seem sub par)

heres a typical benchmark dps fight example:
http://wowwebstats.com/wldxf3pmzq4gq?s=10683-11017
as you can see locks/BMhunters/rogues/mage top the meter with roughly the same dps, and then there is a small jump to other classes

BadCharlie · 15-04-2008 2:19pm

Well it looks to me, either you think my guild is **** or im full of ****.

Maybe hunters in your guild are crap ? Maybe they are not spec is not BM ?

Im not going to try and convoince you guys any more. We will just leave it at my guild members must be all crap.

DapperGent · 15-04-2008 2:56pm

BadCharlie wrote: »

Well it looks to me, either you think my guild is **** or im full of ****.

Maybe hunters in your guild are crap ? Maybe they are not spec is not BM ?

Im not going to try and convoince you guys any more. We will just leave it at my guild members must be all crap.

If you want to take personally perfectly obvious game mechanics be my guest. Call back when you've finished puberty.

BadCharlie · 15-04-2008 3:02pm

DapperGent wrote: »

If you want to take personally perfectly obvious game mechanics be my guest. Call back when you've finished puberty.

That's a bit below the belt, and getting a bit nasty. A personal attack like that puts you in a total differint light.

You keep jumping to conclusion like this very post. Also about us not using Recount, WWS or the correct groups. Also saying they must be shít if im out DPSing the other class's. Also that you cant figure out how my 575 dps with pet unbuffed can not go up higer when using aimed, arcane, steady, stings, multi, bloodrage ect. Or how we kill anything in SSC.

Over all im not selling hunters short at. And im trying to say we can do better then you think or seen we can. I do agree in 25 person raids that their is only room for 1 hunter due to generaly lack of dps. But as guilds on our server say if they do find a IMBA hunter they will bring 2. Our guild do use 2 hunters because i keep up and keep ahead of the other class's at this moment.

DapperGent · 15-04-2008 6:18pm

BadCharlie wrote: »

You keep jumping to conclusion like this very post. Also about us not using Recount, WWS or the correct groups. Also saying they must be shít if im out DPSing the other class's. Also that you cant figure out how my 575 dps with pet unbuffed can not go up higer when using aimed, arcane, steady, stings, multi, bloodrage ect. Or how we kill anything in SSC.

Forgive me for thinking you were quoting your actual DPS. Why you think anyone would be able to tell anything from the dps you do while you're afk is bewildering. I figured you're meters were wrong because the DPS you were quoting was too low. Obviously.

Over all im not selling hunters short at. And im trying to say we can do better then you think or seen we can. I do agree in 25 person raids that their is only room for 1 hunter due to generaly lack of dps. But as guilds on our server say if they do find a IMBA hunter they will bring 2. Our guild do use 2 hunters because i keep up and keep ahead of the other class's at this moment.

My old guild brought three every raid because they were the best DPSers in the guild, that means nothing for how good a hunter's dps is in general. What it is is what the experienced raiders on the thread have said since the start i.e. it's good but its not the best and not close to the best in general. Presuming equal geared players in a well set up raid hunters should always be below Warlocks and Rogues for certain and maybe even Mages and Fury Warriors. The hunters in my guild are above Mages and below our fury warriors so prob a bit of a toss up.

Now I don't couldn't care less which of those five classes happens to be best DPS at the moment (I don't raid as any of them) but hunters aren't top DPS and that's not opinion it's just a fact and again a fact I don't care about.

Ivan · 15-04-2008 6:43pm

Settle down folks, things are getting a little too heated for what is essentially a non-issue. It seems Anti and BadCharlie are having a different conversation to everyone else...

Anti and BadCharlie are stating they do great dps and sometimes even the best dps in their guild. Whereas everyone else, myself included, seem to be trying to get the point across that this is not normally the case and would be against the desired intentions of Blizzard and the witnessed results my many a player here.

But hunters are a strange class in raids, to say the least. I had a friend who was in the BT/HJ guild that I eventually joined that was consistently topping the raid in HJ despite the fact that he was survival. Of course, when he changed to BM we all noticed a significant increase in his damage done. So it became obvious to everyone that he was just a great player.

But DapperGent please refrain from personally attacking posters, regardless of how dubious you may think their claims are.

nicryan · 15-04-2008 7:10pm

copeyhagen wrote: »

im laughing skull horde side too. whats ur toon named? i honestly thought i was the only irish player on the realm!! on horde side anyway.

I'm Monkair - a troll mage in thermal

-Nic

BadCharlie · 16-04-2008 9:13am

So back on topic.

Einstein what are you leveling now ? Warlock or Mage

Would love to level another toon to 70 my self, but the bore of leveling....

copeyhagen · 16-04-2008 11:53am

nicryan wrote: »

I'm Monkair - a troll mage in thermal

-Nic

ill whisper you later ; )

Einstein · 16-04-2008 3:12pm

BadCharlie wrote: »

So back on topic.

Einstein what are you leveling now ? Warlock or Mage

Would love to level another toon to 70 my self, but the bore of leveling....

lvl 17 warlock atm. with tailoring & first aid. Haven't decided on a second profession yet...maybe enchanting.

I'm liking the warlock I think, reckon when he levels up he'd be pretty powerful...also started a Night Elf Druid, up to level 6...might swap between the two and see where it gets me.

copeyhagen · 16-04-2008 3:50pm

yeh good idea. i personally get sick of levelling the same ****e again after a couple of days, i do usually have a few alts in the go at once.

never played alliance though, what with alliance being 90% 12 year olds and that hahaha

jokin.

horde ftw ofc

Psycopat · 16-04-2008 4:05pm

Dustaz wrote: »

The current benchmark for dps is Brutallus in sunwell plateau:
http://wowwebstats.com/1n2o3d3sufrjc?s=9501-9840&m

That DPS is INSANE im in a guild thats 5/5 MH and 7/9 BT and our top dps'ers are around 1.5-1.6k dps, jesus that rogue was up on 2.7k

jason&arthur · 24-04-2008 11:08am

Psycopat wrote: »

That DPS is INSANE im in a guild thats 5/5 MH and 7/9 BT and our top dps'ers are around 1.5-1.6k dps, jesus that rogue was up on 2.7k

u prolly ent spamming haste/destruction pots, drums, stacking the raid perfectly etc. that plus they have better gear from actually farmin bt / hyj for a little longer than ya.

basically dont worry, 1.6k dps is fine for killing illidan and u wont have problems.

now if u have an average of 1k< that would be a problem

Dustaz · 24-04-2008 12:12pm

the key to brutallus is throwing the kitchen sink at him. We just downed him for the second time yesterday and got into the top 75 of wws dps (30441 raid dps!). Would have been higher except i covered myself in shame and did terrible dps.

The fight is all about dps doing absolutly the max damage they can do. LW'ers with drums of battle are vital as are destruction pots and haste pots. Its a nice change from the movement based fights in sunwell.

HereticPrincess · 24-04-2008 1:17pm

Personally I prefer Mage
It's my favorite class, I'm a Draenei aswell so the armour always looks fantastic for Mage class

Mage or Warlock?

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